Petrol or diesel?
 

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[Closed] Petrol or diesel?

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Everyone has jumped onto the diesel bandwagon over the last few years but it seems petrol is always going to be cheaper and petrol cars are getting cleaner and almost as economical.
I drive 30 - 35k miles per year for work mostly - is it still more cost effective to run a diesel?


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 6:59 pm
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put simply .... yes


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 7:38 pm
 Drac
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I get 58MPG with my Diesel on most runs, I can easily get more, when I use the MIL's petrol I get 38 at best.

Says it all to me.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 7:43 pm
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For that milage diesel still.....service intervals are less and more mpg but I suppose if it's a company car you may need to work out any tax differences etc.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 7:45 pm
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Small 3 cylinder turbo petrol is getting very close to diesel Economy and near in power @ 120/150 bhp but no where near as nice to drive in the real world... For that kind of mileage diesel is still much nicer drive!!! Sadly diesel is dieing...


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 7:58 pm
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I remember a guy at an old work did some serious research into this and the result was that above either 20 or 25k (I forget which) diesel was more cost effective. 30-35k is clear diesel territory I'd say.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 7:59 pm
 kcal
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petrol workhorse here, would get nearly - but not quite - 50mpg .. (over 40 usually on decent run, highs 40s if drive 'well' - or carefully).

Mileage is around 4/5/6 k / year though, at your mileage do the sums and I'm sure diesel would be the answer.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 7:59 pm
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Small 3 cylinder turbo petrol is getting very close to diesel Economy

Ooo, would hate to drive 30+k/annum in one of those though!


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:00 pm
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And in reality the drivers of the ford 3cylinder turbo at our place an only make them work if asking fuel bik. Suggesting the real world mpg is utter rubbish, regardless of co2 and mpg claims


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:05 pm
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Nicksr interesting. I know two people who have these as private cars (fiesta) and are reporting great mpg and ample go from them. Probably a driving style/ type of use thing or maybe your colleagues are driving the larger models.

At the op's mileage almost certainly diesel for the win though


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:15 pm
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What are you lot on about? I had a Focus 3 cylinder and it was far more refined then the equivalent diesel. Much less lag as well. Everyone who traveled in it commented on how quite it was.

It will depend what sort of driving you do in my opinion. On reasonably flat drives at non motorway speeds the Focus got around 50mpg. On hilly drives, at 70mph+ or if you kicked it's arse the mpg suffered badly though.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:17 pm
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Depends, tbh. The clinching factor for me is that I just like how fat diesels drive- you need a pretty potent petrol engine to get the same effect and they come with much bigger tax and economy impacts. And often insurance too. Like, I have a scabby 2.2 mondeo with a dab of tuning, instead of the petrol V6 which would have cost me something like £3000 more a year to run- it gives away about 30bhp and it has some extra reliability concerns but that's more than the car cost, every year.

But that's because I wanted a big car with a reasonable amount of poke, in other sectors it's not like this at all. And I reckon the newer you get, the better the petrol options get.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:22 pm
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I do slightly more miles than the OP using a company car, and I really wouldn't want to be using a petrol. I've used a few of the VW 'small petrol tfsi engine / Big engine feel' golfs etc as courtesy cars, and they'd be fine around town but at motorway speed it was running at about 4500 revs and getting nowhere near the claimed mpg. It also sounded like it was being thrashed (when it wasn't) too. Much as I despise weasly diesels, for me it's a no brainier.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:30 pm
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Last time I flung figures in, on economy alone diesel broke even at around the 12k mark.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:39 pm
 Drac
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What are you lot on about?

Well this.

On hilly drives, at 70mph+ or if you kicked it's arse the mpg suffered badly though.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:40 pm
 Alex
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last three cars have been diesels all doing 15-20k a year. Honda 2.2 dCTI engine was a lovely engine (First one they did I think) and did great service for another forum member on here after I'd had it. X-Trail one ate it's intercooler and was a bit agricultural but did the job, Yeti (110PS one) I think is the nicest (if the least powerful of the three).

But just swapped back to Petrol for the next car. Doing a few less miles nowadays and I was staggered how good even the smaller petrol engines are. Especially with a DSG box. I drove it back to back wit the more powerful diesel and much preferred it.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 8:48 pm
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The turbo petrols don't seem to get as close to their published figures as diesels though. Seem to be more sensitive to driving style.

Consider petrol hybrid though too.

FWIW I will be test driving a turbo petrol engine when I come to change.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 9:07 pm
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For me the issue is . Torque.

I have 68bhp n/a diesel in my van . It does 80flat to the floor , its slow . But i can live with tht

Because t does 80 flat to the floor uphill or with an engine and gear box in the back , or with a stove and 18 boxes of solid oak flooring or 35 boxes of laminate floors (both of which put it on the bump stops so pretty heavy)

Every petrol car ive had would have been in 3rd gear at the first sign of a hill with half that load in.

When these little wasp in a can turbo petrols can do that ill consider it.

I use my car as a load lugger , the journey can often be made many other ways if i dotn need to carry heavy shit.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 9:46 pm
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When these little wasp in a can turbo petrols can do that ill consider it.

Ever driven one?


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 10:20 pm
 Drac
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Ever driven one?

Yup at work. Around town it gave the impression it was going to be quite something, on the open roads it was numb.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 10:33 pm
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Try LPG even cheaper but say good bye to your boot !


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 10:34 pm
 Drac
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Oh wait, I was talking about the 3 cylinder things not the turbo petrols. 😳


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 10:37 pm
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Yep 1.2 tce

Nippy enough round town which i agree they are fine for , took it out on the dualer , my god it was crap. Slight hill speed dropped off and 4th gear to maintain 70- that was with 3 adults in. Wouldnt fancy it with half the stuff i move around in my car.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 11:14 pm
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I've been in a bigger turbo petrol and it was as torquey as a diesel easily. Not driven a smaller one tho.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 11:15 pm
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So have i.....turbo petrols on the whole, great fun.....2.5 t forester the 2.0turbo octy vrs - great yolks.

1.2 tce renault that the dealers are pushign hard at the moment with " its just like a bigger engine" .. No thank you. Give me the 1.5 dci any day of the week. Your 1.2tce is nothing like a bigger engine , its like a small displacement engine with a turbo on it.


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 11:23 pm
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I love diesels and the torque they deliver.

I'd only have a petrol if it was a 2l turbo 250bhp+ or 3l+ V6/8/10/12.

My pick-up ain't quick, but the 3l V6 TD pulls like a train and makes a nice noise too. You'd need a monster of a petrol engine to deliver the 500nm of torque that it kicks out


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 11:37 pm
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Depends what you're happy to drive, if you're happy in a small Ford pootling round town then petrol is the sensible choice. But if you want something more refined then you'll fine a 3 cylinder petrol turbo ain't available, nor really sensible at the price.

Take the new Audi TT (random choice, don't own it) bottom of the range engine is:

Diesel - 180bhp, 57mpg (urban), 76mpg (extra urban), 67mpg (combined)
Petrol - 220bhp, 38mpg (urban), 56mpg (extra urban), 47mpg (combined)

so when people say that petrol is nearly as efficient as diesel - really it isn't is it, 20mpg difference above. I'd be picking diesel. If diesel is dying out then crack on, it'll only make it cheaper at the pump (they're not going to run trucks on petrol).


 
Posted : 10/01/2015 11:49 pm
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I've got that tsi engine in my octy vrs

its great to drive. loads of torque and revs freely too, althogh you don't need to. however ignore VAGs figures for consumption. Mine isn't quite run in yet (5300 miles, they take about 8k to loosen) and in the summer I could JUST get 40mpg on 200 motorway runs at 75mph. now in winter its down about 4mpg. around town I get high 20s or low 30s.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 12:08 am
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emissions regs and dpfs are gong to make diesels quite differnt and costly for small cars I suspect..in fact for small cars I think they may be troubled


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 12:10 am
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I doubt I'd go back to petrol. I do about about 8k a year (I cycle to work and down the shops and really whenever I can.

That said, i've had diesels for many years now and they're Awesome. I had the Honda off Alex as above, I've had an A3 and now and A4. Brilliant. It's not so much about the economy, although they all have been economical (the A4 is astounding), it's not driving around feeling like I'm ragging the arse off it. Diesel cars top out at about 4k whereas petrol cars start warming up at that point.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 12:22 am
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samuri, at 8k a year you'd be better financially in a petrol, and a VAG TSI/TSFI is, in most peoples eyes, a nicer drive than a bigger VAG TDI. the TDIs are nice, but so are the turbo petrols now. they are torquey and free reving. I sit in 5th gear at 30, 6th at 40, about 1200 or 1300 revs, in silence. (excpet for the bloody sound generator)


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 12:26 am
 Alex
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It was a good car that wasn't is Jon? 🙂 Driving the two Yeti's back to back, the petrol was definitely quieter. Th Diesel did feel more torque-y which isn't surprising, and also it 15% more powerful in terms of PS. But the petrol felt quicker (not sure it is).

Loaded up with 4 of us on the motorway, diesel would clearly be better. But that's less than 10% of my driving. I made the decision on what was best for the type of driving I did most of the time, and accepted it wouldn't be perfect for everything.

We'll all be driving electric cars soon anyway 😉


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 8:28 am
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I can't remember the last time I drove a petrol apart from nipping out in mums 1997 Polo as I've had Diesel cars and Vans.

No question for the OP, use Diesel but I'm just wondering if anyone has took any of these small 3 cyl Turbo petrols upto big mileage ie 100 k + yet or have they not been around long enough ?

Just thinking about longevity, I may be old fashioned, but 1.0 back when I started driving couldn't do more than 75 mph and needed a calender for 0-60


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 8:39 am
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Just now I have a TOyota Corolla Altis - largish saloon with 1.6vvti CVT in it.

I thought I was going to hate it, underpowered for a larger car.

Currently gets me 38mpg all the time.

I do a 300 km round 4 or 5 times a month to the other site, and if I thrash it, or I drive it steadily it is costing me the same, around 18 quid a journey.

I was diesel man in the UK and thought I would be here as well.

Only thing that I would like in place of this car is a Camry Hybrid


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 9:07 am
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38 mpg for a 220bhp car? That's progress. My old 1987 220bhp Porsche 944 turbo never broke 30mpg and generally got mid 20's.

Diesels will fall out of favour. The only reason they have become more popular is the over emphasis on co2 emissions and not fuel efficiency - it takes the average driver 3 to 4 years to make up the extra cost of a diesel car in savings in fuel, so not a good reason for an average driver to go diesel on its own given most people change cars more frequently these days.

People are waking up to the environmental harm diesels do to the environment with smog returning to our towns and cities and the rise in health issues. It won't be long until the tax regime is changed to favour small efficient petrol engines and Hybrids (I guess we're already there with hybrids, they're just not fashionable).

The big slug of torque you get in the low Rev range with diesels is evocative to many, but this is a bit of smoke and mirrors and modern turbocharged petrol engines with intelligent auto gearboxes can provide this effect if only the UK would get over our obsession with manual boxes (we're not better at changing gear than an auto box - get over it). Also with new hybrid power trains with more powerful electric engines can produce far more instant torque than a Diesel engine at any point through the Rev range rather than only being able to deliver it over a few hundred rpm.

But for now, if you're a high milage driver then diesel still makes financial sense. I much prefer a petrol engine though. As a comparison an SMax with a 2 ltr turbo petrol engine is far nicer to drive than my 2.2 diesel one and is quicker despite the initial surge of torque my engine delivers low down in the Rev range. I know as a mate of mine has the petrol one and I've driven it and we've been on family trips together where we've compared the cars. His is quicker hands down all over the Rev range. You don't get a surge of torque, but a smooth progression over the entire Rev range, where as mine gives you a kick in the back initially but it's all over by 3krpm, the remaining 1500 rpm to the red line is utterly useless. The only reason I have the diesel over the petrol is financial: 25mpg vs 38mpg (so 350 miles per tank vs. 500 miles per tank), and the difference in annual tax. I could live with the fuel consumption difference, especially if fuel prices fall (I know it's not a permanent drop), but the difference in annual tax is a big hit - almost as much as my insurance. I suspect that will be addressed at some point. Until then diesels are a necessary evil.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 9:40 am
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People are waking up to the environmental harm diesels do to the environment with smog returning to our towns and cities and the rise in health issues. It won't be long until the tax regime is changed to favour small efficient petrol engines and Hybrids (I guess we're already there with hybrids, they're just not fashionable)

^^^ this - plans in central london for a low emissions zone starting 2020 covering the congestion zone, will add an extra £12 per day for trips into the centre for all but the latest diesels but petrols since about 2007 are already compliant.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 10:01 am
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 sbob
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TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

I love diesels and the torque they deliver.

If you don't like having to change gear, why not drive an auto?

Genuine question.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 10:29 am
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Family has a Fiesta Ecoboost and a Passat blue motion
Both a similar to drive with similar levels of get up and go and torque (percieved)
Passat does about 58mpg real world, fiesta about 49mpg. Specifically the Fiesta gets nowhere near its official figure of 65, while the Passat is plausibly close to the official figure of 58.5mpg
Fiesta is nicer on short or twisty journeys, Passat is brilliant on the motorway


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 11:18 am
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Official consumption numbers should never be believed, cars are developed to get good figures on the test, as thats what manufacturers emmisions figures, road fund license etc are worked out on, and the higher the number the more you'd want to buy it.

I borrowed a Passat bluemotion tech for a few days last year (1.6 manual saloon), not sure what the official figures are, but on a 150 mile motorway journey with bad city traffic at each end it reckoned it did 72mpg, motorway was dealt with at 78mpg indicated cruise control. After filling it up, the computer had dropped to 61mpg over the whole tank, and a fill up revealed 64mpg over the whole tank (but I didn't fill it up the first time so...). Anyways, for the size, comfort, performance (150bhp?), and speed it got me around those few days 60 odd mpg is amazing.

I guess the rule would be, use it for city driving, short journeys, not many motorway trips. Petrol Petrol Petrol. they are so much cleaner (in an urban environment) and cost effective in this use.

But if you spend most of your life on A roads + motorway with little city/town driving then diesel diesel diesel!


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 12:19 pm
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Dickyboy - Member

^^^ this - plans in central london for a low emissions zone starting 2020 covering the congestion zone, will add an extra £12 per day for trips into the centre for all but the latest diesels but petrols since about 2007 are already compliant.

To put that into perspective, if I worked in the congestion zone and drove in every weekday it'd cost me more or less the same as I save on tax, insurance and fuel with my diesel over the nearest petrol equivalent.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 12:49 pm
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Last car Auto,2.5 petrol averages 35 mpg. Replacement 6 speed manual,2.0 Turbodiesel averages 53 mpg. This is in hilly Lake District,had it been a flatter area I would have bought 1.4/1.6 Turbodiesel or eco 1.0 petrol. Extra engine capacity great on the climbs.... . Happy I chose the diesel,but it felt odd the first time as the fuel is a few pence a litre more!. 🙂


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 1:06 pm
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BrickMan - Member
I guess the rule would be, use it for city driving, short journeys, not many motorway trips. Petrol Petrol Petrol. they are so much cleaner (in an urban environment) and cost effective in this use.
But if you spend most of your life on A roads + motorway with little city/town driving then diesel diesel diesel!

Absolutely this. We only do about 10k miles a year between both cars* as we walk most places, but have a 1.2 petrol for round town, and a 2l diesel for longer journeys.

* yes having two cars is an extravagance.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 1:56 pm
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Thats especially true now where all (?) diesels have a DPF which does not like short journeys.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 2:48 pm
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Diesel:

-ve: poison your fellow citizens with fine particles and Nox (particle filters don't work), fails to start in ski resort at below -20°C, stinks, narrow power band, more servicing, more MOTs (in France), more big bills sooner... .

+ve: might work out a bit cheaper if you do a high mileage, perhaps a little quieter on the motorway.

Petrol:

-ve: slightly higher revs on the motorway, slightly more expensive to run for high mileage users.

+ve: cheaper to buy, nicer to drive, starts first time every time even when it's cold, warms up faster so the heater works

Diesel is cheaper in France but despite that Autoplus found that when they calculated the number of kms you had to do in a diesel to make it cheaper than the equivalent petrol some diesels would never save you money.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 3:32 pm
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You didn't mention CO2, Edukator. Although it's not as simple as it seems...


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 3:45 pm
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Ive been looking at a new Octavia vrs, tried the diesel, Ive had a D5 V70 for the past 7 years, and it was ok. £30 road tax and £300 or so more than the petrol. I then tried a Golt GTI, same engine etc, miles better to drive than the diesel, slightly less torque but starts lower and has a much wider rev range 😀 a proper smile on my face 😀 so up to press I`m having the petrol vrs 😀 12k miles pa and the extra few hundred quid a year is worth it for the driving enjoyment 😀 😀
30-35k a year would be diesel unless someone else was paying for my fuel


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 3:46 pm
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[b]sbob - Member [/b]

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

I love diesels and the torque they deliver.

[b]If you don't like having to change gear, why not drive an auto?

Genuine question.[/b]

Firstly, I've no idea why you asked that question

Secondly, I do drive an auto


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 4:01 pm
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" fails to start in ski resort at below -20°C"

Funny the russians and crazy canauks manage it, there are tricks to it.

My lr which is diesel and chip fat 50/50 started - albe it reluctantly at -28


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 5:49 pm
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The Russians never turn off their engines and if they do have a heater under them.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 5:51 pm
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Quite possible that Ed is supplied with warm weather diesel in nice warm central France, which is unsuitable for frigid ski resorts. All Russian diesel would have more cold weather additives in it, one would think.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 6:24 pm
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Same as the canukes. - plug in block heater too- even for the petrols.

So rather than your blanket statement its just that the folks that take their fairweather diesels to the skimresorts dont think forward


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 7:08 pm
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It's quite clear that many of those slating modern 3 cylinder, small, turbo engines have never driven one. Go test drive the 125psi Focus version back to back with the diesel then come back and report.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 7:15 pm
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125psi

Compressed air engine? 😉

Power? Blah, blah, blah...

Means a lot less than people like to believe, if we're looking at usefulness it's torque we should be looking at. Quite frankly I wouldn't want any less torque than I already have given the hills I drive over which a 3cyl doesn't deliver. Wouldn't fancy doing the milage I do with one either, I've already put 100k on in the space of 5.5 years and accepted that we'll only be parting when it's knackered. I'm guessing that would come sooner with a highly strung petrol being ragged day in day out.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 8:46 pm
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The 1.0 ecoboost does look quite favourable on torque on paper.

125ft lbs from 1400-4500rpm on paper and the 125bhp has a 148ft lb torque boost for 30 seconds on turbo over boost.

The 1.2tce didnt

It had 107ft lbs at 3000 rpm and anything below 2500 it really suffered bad.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 8:54 pm
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3 cylinder engines are inherently more torquey than 4 cylinders for similar size engines.

Hence a small three cylinder with a turbo for torque is the latest craze on the engine block...


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 8:58 pm
 Drac
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It's quite clear that many of those slating modern 3 cylinder, small, turbo engines have never driven one. Go test drive the 125psi Focus version back to back with the diesel then come back and report.

I have. It was ok around town but numb on the open roads.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 9:23 pm
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3 cylinder engines are inherently more torquey than 4 cylinders for similar size engines.

True since the displacement is shared amongst less cylinders and stroke length my be comparitively increased as well however that means each cylinder is consequently working harder. Hence my misgivings about long term durability.

TR - I'm kicking out about 162ft/lb just now, not earth shattering by any stretch but still wouldn't want any less - with more than just the driver you can feel the difference.


 
Posted : 11/01/2015 11:09 pm
 sbob
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TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

Firstly, I've no idea why you asked that question

😆

I've probably jumped the gun on assuming why you like diesels from your post I quoted.
As torque doesn't get you anywhere quickly, I had assumed you liked diesels because you don't have to "work" the engine, as many people don't.
I personally don't mind, hence why I can happily live with a gutless auto petrol car which I may have to nail from time to time.

Sorry little car! 😳

Edit: just checked, and I'm rocking 78ft lbs! 8)


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 1:10 am
 hora
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OP if I was doing 35k miles a year it'd be diesel, a auto and great seats. 15k a year and its a big petrol, manual and noisy 😀


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 8:39 am
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squirrelking
True since the displacement is shared amongst less cylinders and stroke length my be comparitively increased as well however that means each cylinder is consequently working harder. Hence my misgivings about long term durability.

Understandable. It remains to be seen how durable they are, my wife, sister in law and my sister have all had small engine motors give up the ghost around the 100k mark. That being said the 3 banger in a focus is so small it looks like you could lift it out on your own (obviously I couldn't) so replacing the engine may not be a massive undertaking.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 9:00 am
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my wife, sister in law and my sister have all had small engine motors give up the ghost around the 100k mark.

I'm interested to know exactly what failed on them.

I'd be surprised if there was any problem intrinsict to small engine size - perhaps the bottom of the range cheapest option types are simply underbuilt to save money - which the turbo-ed 120bhp etc ones ought not to be.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 9:14 am
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Ive been looking at a new Octavia vrs, tried the diesel,…petrol miles better to drive than the diesel, slightly less torque but starts lower and has a much wider rev range a proper smile on my face so up to press I`m having the petrol vas … worth it for the driving enjoyment … 30-35k a year would be diesel unless someone else was paying for my fuel

This.

I test drove both diesel and petrols when replacing my Alfa, I just couldn't get on with 4 cylinder diesels, they all sounded like vans and had stupidly short power bands. More cylinders improve things but then the mpg savings start drop off. The only diesel I was tempted by was a 330/335d touring and couldn't find one with sensible milage.

I ended up in a petrol VRS estate, far nicer to drive than the diesel variant, 260bhp, does 30+ mpg on the commute, sensible tax band (in comparison to bigger engined, NA petrols) and you can brim it for £50 at the current prices!


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 9:24 am
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I ended up in a petrol VRS estate, far nicer to drive than the diesel variant, 260bhp, does 30+ mpg on the commute, sensible tax band (in comparison to bigger engined, NA petrols) and you can brim it for £50 at the current prices!

I think I have the same engine in a different car.

I drove the petrol and diesel equivalents. From my research @32-35mpg average on the petrol v @42-45 mpg on the diesel.

Diesel would save me approx £325 a year on 15,000 miles. Diesel was £1,200 more to buy, so it would actually costing me more to run the diesel for the first 4 years!

Got to the first set of traffic lights in the diesel and the noise made me sad. Bought the petrol.

Just back from a 510 mile motorway round trip...on one 60 litre tank of petrol. Considering that it's a moderately powerful petrol engine in quite a heavy estate, I'm more than happy with this!


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 9:35 am
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Ahh Torque

One of the most quoted and least understood aspects of cars.

What you feel when you drive isn't engine torque, its wheel torque and wheel torque is easily changed by selecting a different gear (or you auto box kicking down if your so inclined)

When people say the like torquey engines what they really mean is they like engines that have acceptable power at lower rpm

Anyway 30k miles a year buy the diesel


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 9:38 am
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molgrips

I'm interested to know exactly what failed on them.

Clio and a Yaris with big end failure. And the wife's clio threw a rod if I recall correctly .


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 9:38 am
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A rod? When was this? 1980?


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 9:47 am
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molgrips - Member

A rod? When was this? 1980?

Nah, it was about 6 or 7 years ago. The engine instantly developed a fairly terminal sounding engine knock, followed by reluctance to turn over. My mechanic is a fairly thorough, curious sort and that was his diagnosis. I've never known him to be wrong so that was good enough for me. No doubt there must have been contributing factors, but that'll be case with any failure.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 10:07 am
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I do circa 25k a year and am going back to petrol - I've had fours years of diesel power and have hated it. The fuel stinks, the pumps are always covered in it, the power band is horrible, the noise is horrible etc.

Not totally sure what I'll get yet because it depends on what is available on my car list (as the lease priced fluctuate cars come and go). Something from VAG with the 1.4 TFSi engine is high on the list as is the new MINI (that little three cylinder engine is a peach). The latter is a bit selfish because it's small, but there is lots of room in the front and it now has proper seats (better than the Golf that I sat in the other week).

In my case, I'm not expecting to get the claimed economy but if I can get high 40's it won't cost me more to run tham mt current diesel that scrapes 51 at best (it doesn't get ragged and sits at 70 or so for most of it's life).

In the case of the OP, I think it would depend on what petrols you were looking at. Not all petrols are noisey, revvy things. Our 330 is pretty relaxed on the motorway - 2400ropm or so at 75. Things like the MINI seem pretty relaxed too.

I guess at that kind of mileage deisel will be a bit cheaper to run, but I'd still struggle to look past petrol.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 10:09 am
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After having diesels for the past dozen or so years for doing a 100 mile a day round trip commute I aging bought a diesel again last year although I don’t do the commute anymore. More by accident than design and sometime I wish I’d gone for the petrol version with a couple of extra cylinders. But having notched up over 400 miles at the weekend its averaged moved up to 36 MPG so not too bad I guess. And to be honest I didn’t really notice the lack of speed compared to the more desirable petrol model.

For your mileage stick with a diesel. Oh and someone mentioned them not warming up, the auxiliary heater kicks in and solves that problem.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 10:11 am
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What you feel when you drive isn't engine torque, its wheel torque and wheel torque is easily changed by selecting a different gear (or you auto box kicking down if your so inclined)

Of course it's wheel torque, just as power isn't shaft power. But it's still dependant on engine power/torque in the first place. Personally I like being able to go up the hilly bits and around their corners without dropping a gear when the engine runs out of steam.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 11:27 am
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Nah, it was about 6 or 7 years ago.

Surprised that engine didn't have OHC..?

I find it amazing that people moan about the power bands and noise. FFS talk about picky.

The power band thing is rubbish as the gears are higher so if you don't look at the numbers on the tach you'd never know. Engine torque isn't the issue, it's wheel torque.

Our 330 is pretty relaxed on the motorway

Of course it is, but it's hardly comparable in terms of economy!


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 11:27 am
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Molgrips - I think he meant con rod rather than push rod 😉

You want your torque curve to be as flat as possible to ensure consistent power delivery, something diesels do better than petrol. If you like to over use your gears you might as well just buy a Honda.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 11:30 am
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I dunno, I think that's totally a matter of taste. Like, my dad has a 1.6 petrol focus, which makes 110bhp for about 1/10ths of a second at its peak power, but seems to be mostly propelled by the gearstick. I hate it... Rubbish around town, rubbish on the motorway, super mega rubbish on twisty roads. But you don't have to look far to find people who like all that- revvy engines are more involving, balancing revs and gears is a skill etc.

Same reason I chose a v-twin over an inline 4.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 11:43 am
 hora
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Northwind my engine revs upto 7,000 (red starts at 6,500). I love it. You have to be good at utilising and riding the torque on a diesel. Thats key not the 'oh no the powers now gone' like some people say but I LOVE hearing the revs on a petrol. 😀


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 11:46 am
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I find it amazing that people moan about the power bands and noise. FFS talk about picky.

The power band thing is rubbish as the gears are higher.

Not picky, it's called priorities. Yours are obviously different to mine that is all.

Petrol vs diesel VRS - the petrol was a far nicer car, I'm happy take a hit on mpg in exchange for car that, [b]to me[/b], is a more pleasant drive.

The "power band thing" isn't rubbish in this case either with the diesel having about half the power band of the petrol going through the same box. Fine if you're sitting on motorways all your life but a daily A and B road commute, I'll take the petrol.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 11:58 am
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jamesfts - Member
The "power band thing" isn't rubbish in this case either with the diesel having about half the power band of the petrol going through the same box.

The petrol and diesel are unlikely to have the same gearbox....gear ratios suited to diesel would be rubbish in a petrol & vice versa....


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 12:08 pm
 sbob
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squirrelking - Member

You want your torque curve to be as flat as possible to ensure consistent power delivery

No I don't!

If you like to over use your gears you might as well just buy a Honda.

If you're too old to enjoy the pleasure of Honda's manual gearboxes then just buy an auto, Grandad!

Get an auto Micra like mine; no gears for you to worry about but as a CVT you can still rev it furiously for no reason like pensioners love to.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 12:34 pm
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glad you called it SK - i was thinking do molgrips pistons float around in thin air on hopes and dreams !

"The "power band thing" isn't rubbish in this case either with the diesel having about half the power band of the petrol going through the same box. Fine if you're sitting on motorways all your life but a daily A and B road commute"

petrol fair makes the road come alive. I like bimbling along in my diesal OAP mobile - i minimise my driving anyway as i hate driving on the road with other road users cause mostly they are coonts up here - bruneep im looking at you.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 12:46 pm
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Just ask a fireman which type he'd like to be in when it crashes and the fuel tank splits....


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 12:50 pm
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