[Closed] Petrol heads - a sad time 🙁

Get an older one and save some cash?

Aye it’s bloody awful on the eyes too. Like a Focus and an i30 made a baby..

I’ve got a facelift F20 M135 I’m keeping hold of as there’s no way I’m getting out a 6cyl RWD car for an ugly 4 banger 4 wheel drive.

As above, get a 6 month old M140?

1 series has always been an ugly fugger, tbf. Wasn’t a high bar.

Just sold my 13yo 330d. Took it out for a last drive and realised just what a good car it was. Lovely manual gearbox, power steering that by modern standards feels like it's failed, and computers that know their place.

Only consolation is the SORNed 20yo BMW in the garage.

Aye it’s bloody awful on the eyes too. Like a Focus and an i30 made a baby..

Agreed.

Terrible design phase Bimmer are going through.

Think you can sill get the straight 6 in the 2 series. I briefly considered a 2 series convertible with the straight 6.

I actually liked the 1 series, the wife had one with a 1.6 turbo engine which was fun, but the new 1 series looks like just another boring and bland euro box. But nothing tickles my fancy at the moment and going to go EV anyway. Have toyed with the idea of throwing caution to the wind and getting an older 991.1 and run it for a couple of years as a last hurrah, but not sure I can be bothered. Whats the point. Roads are crap, too busy and congested and can't really use the performances so get all the downsides but none of the upsides.

nickewen

Member

Aye it’s bloody awful on the eyes too. Like a Focus and an i30 made a baby..

Except those are both better looking that this abomination.

The new 2 grand tourer is des-gus-tang too 🤢

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/bmw-extends-gran-coupe-family-with-new-2-series/41133

Terrible design phase Bimmer are going through.

they've been through a few...

I can see why they have done it, the RWD 1 series was always a bit of an odd car, mainly down to the slightly odd sizing - It wasn't quite Golf / Focus size but its bigger and a lot more expensive then anything in the class below. They were still fairly popular, I guess it was a cheap way to get a BMW badge, if that's your thing.

They have probably looked at the Merc A Class and decided FWD and a transverse layout is the way to go.
M135i is 4WD at least.

But that front end!

I sold my lovely 130i a few months ago. Worst car decision i've ever made

Bimmers new grill design..

I don't even understand the product lineup any more, it was so simple.
I had assumed that the 4 series was a way to make things a bit clearer. E.g. 3 series was 5 doors, 4 series was 3 doors. But no, there are 5 door 4 series and all sorts. so much must overlap or have very minor differences it makes no sense to me.

Next you'll be telling us they've removed that essential feature for driving on the public road, the ability to left foot brake! 😮

Did you really think that, in 2019 when we're trying to limit climate change, anyone would keep sticking a six cylinder engine in a family hatchback?

Mercedes have said that the next C63 will be a 4 pot, not the current V8, so they’re all downsizing. Current emission targets are presumably driving this, and rightly so.

I’m not keen on BMW’s current design direction either. Might get a V60 next.

Did you really think that, in 2019 when we’re trying to limit climate change, anyone would keep sticking a six cylinder engine in a family hatchback?

Why not - ethics aside? that engine constituted a tiny proportion of the sales so no real impact on the environment, especially in the UK and Europe. I'm sure they'll still offer the engine in the states and other countries where big engines still sell. The real reason for ditching it on the 1 series was the move to transverse engine layout so they could share the Mini platform. Nothing to do with the environment. Just production costs. And there are no guarantees smaller 4-pot engines are any better for the environment. My mates M135i with the 6-pot engine gets better MPG than a Golf R 4-pot, so the top of the line new M 1-series will be just as thirsty as the 6-pot engine.

But agree the writing is on the wall for ICE cars. Just a matter of time.

I was thinking of swapping my Golf for a 1 series in the later half of next year, didnt realise they binned the RWD. Such as shame. Nothing but basic hatchbacks forever more...

Aye that’s my experience too WS. BMW 6 pots can be surprisingly frugal for their performance/size. I regularly get 40mpg on a run and often get better fuel economy than my wife’s 320i (although some of that is due to the 6 speed manual in hers vs my ZF8B auto). Top Gear reported that the new M135i wasn’t really any better on the juice than the old one..

Anyway - my little hot hatch will likely be my last IC car.. almost signed up for a Model 3 Performance last week but waiting for zero BIK in April before reassessing.

They were still fairly popular

more than fairly - at times round here it seems like every other car is one !

We are in the last stages of Petrol Head dreams. So get your kicks now, soon it wont be possible. Im doing about two European trips a year at the moment in my 911 while I can. Plans for more next year. Probably to see some XCO/DH action and do some cycling in the Alps.

My mate took me out for a ride in his Tesla the other day, it was very odd. I didnt like the styling, but thats just taste. The car was quick, but it was like eating a virtual curry.

Without the noise and build up of speed / power it feels a little clinical. There is little to no driver involmement.

When I win the Euromillions I’ll be buying a 1969 Charger and a small oil refinery so I can enjoy it into my old age. 😃

BMW and Mercedes are downsizing in engine size and quality to meet the VED bands and the budgets of the massive emerging Chinese market. They are also designing crass, ostentatious vulgar rubbish for the same market. Only VAG group are retaining any dignity of design but even here I'm reading reports of unreliability in Audis.

Without the noise and build up of speed / power it feels a little clinical. There is little to no driver involvmement.

See, while I kind of agree (die-hard two stroke motorcycle fan here), I'm also kind of looking forward to not having to go to the garage to stick fuel in something and just plugging in it overnight. I'm umming and ahhing about trying to convert my (admittedly four stroke 250cc single, so nothing massively exciting anyway, no more 2Ts for me 😥) current (arf!) motorcycle to electric power... I love the idea of clean* and simple but I'd need to have to do me some book learnin' up on that fancy, schmancy e-lectrickery before I even wave a spanner at it.

I'd like to think that our car (2007 Galaxy) will be our last ICE one too.

* not clean, I know, the energy has to come from [i]somewhere[/i].

Nothing but basic hatchbacks forever more…

If you want rear wheel drive shenanigans just go for a bicycle ride 😉

If you want rear wheel drive shenanigans just go for a bicycle ride 😉

If only I was zero emissions 😛

Did you really think that, in 2019 when we’re trying to limit climate change, anyone would keep sticking a six cylinder engine in a family hatchback?

On the contrary, it made sense. Someone who wanted a "nice" car - moderately quick and a little bit of comfort and build quality in the cabin, previously had to get themselves an executive saloon or SUV, and as everyone thought this way, size was status. For the last 10 - 15 years or so, the concept of a small but nice car has come on massively (mainly led by the Germans).

Get rid of the quick one series and that customer wont buy a slow one series, they'll buy a quick 3 series, or a quick A3, A class, Golf etc.

if the rumours are to be believed Alfa Romeo are bringing out a RWD Giulietta replacement based on the Giulia/Stelvio platform.

IMO it wont happen, but I can dream.

If only I was zero emissions 😛

😆 I'm blaming the beans.

Who buys a “blow job” car these days?

1 Series/A-Class etc.

We've given them the knickname because they’re driven like:

Just had one

On the way to one

Having one whilst driving

Or

Giving one whilst driving

So erratic is the way they’re driven.

🤪🤷‍♂️

Have heard this was coming for a while now. I guess the move to 4 cylinder engines makes sense, as much as I like the sound, 6 cylinders are somewhat of an unnecessary and environmentally unfriendly luxury these days.

Rear wheel drive though - that's a shame.

Seen the new 1 series a few times. One of the worst looking cars in modern times I've seen, so badly proportioned. 2 series GC is somehow worse, although I didn't think that was possible. Irony really as lots of people gave BMW a hard time for the Chris bangle designs at the time, yet they have aged really well.

As for the front/rear wheel drive argument, there are so many contenders that are better than the new 1 series for front wheel drive that are cheaper and more driver focussed (i30N, new focus ST, civic type r, Golf Gti).

As for rear wheel drive, they are indeed a dying breed but there are still a few in the same price bracket (2 series, GT86/BRZ, MX5, Ford mustang or a used Cayman/M3/C63).

You can get it in 4wd though, which to be fair is just better than rwd for that kind of car.

Keep the fwd aimed at the person who wants a cheapish bimmer, I’ll bet the majority of owners won’t care, and then If you want a quick car - 4wd.

If you want something a bit more silly, then you’ve got the 2 series which just looks a million times better anyway.

As for rear wheel drive, they are indeed a dying breed but there are still a few in the same price bracket (2 series, GT86/BRZ, MX5, Ford mustang or a used Cayman/M3/C63).

Unfortunately you can’t get a dog in the boot of any of those. Unfortunately family commitments prevent a full on decent car.

Yes they do xdrive and although I’ve not personally driven the reviews just say they are dull to drive.

Unfortunately you can’t get a dog in the boot of any of those. Unfortunately family commitments prevent a full on decent car.

Used C63 estate? Although I don't think the dog would enjoy it much 😉

Mercedes have said that the next C63 will be a 4 pot, not the current V8, so they’re all downsizing. Current emission targets are presumably driving this, and rightly so.

I’m not keen on BMW’s current design direction either. Might get a V60 next.

Autocar have made a wild guess to grab a headline, AMG haven't said that. Not that it would be a bad thing.

Mercedes have said that the next C63 will be a 4 pot, not the current V8, so they’re all downsizing.

Latest Focus ST is a 2.3 rather than a 2.0. Still a four pot granted but bigger than the previous one.

The age of the mega power car is over, and that's not a bad thing in my book. Not just of Climate Change but because the current and last generation of 'performance car' were stupid.

It's not about not 'needing' 700Bhp or whatever in your mid-sized Family saloon, but they're completely at odds with the world, driving it flat out on public roads is massively antisocial and dangerous. Drive it flat out on a track and it'll manage 2 laps before the brakes and tyres are white hot and it needs to cool down before it breaks.

They were never about driving, they were about winning a pissing contest.

I suspect the next generation will have the same potential performance, but as no one ever uses all of it, it'll be hidden away behind a set of perimeters most drivers will never use. The ones after that will be much smaller, lighter and less powerful with a onus on 'dynamics' or they'll just be EVs like all the others.

Bit like bikes having 170mm of travel when all we need is 120mm 🙂

I dont / cant use all my 400bhp, but I like having it.

Mercedes have said that the next C63 will be a 4 pot, not the current V8, so they’re all downsizing. Current emission targets are presumably driving this, and rightly so.

I’m not keen on BMW’s current design direction either. Might get a V60 next.

Autocar have made a wild guess to grab a headline, AMG haven’t said that

True, I did read it on Autocar, but there are rumours abound that AMG are testing the 4 pot engine with electric assistance. Only time will tell, of course, but it’s going to go that way at some point, I’m feel sure.

I sold my lovely 130i a few months ago. Worst car decision i’ve ever made

Yep.. Still got mine after 10 years of ownership... Excellent car.
NA Inline 6, RWD, ohh and the sound! (especially with the factory BMWP intake and exhaust system 😉 )
(although it is on the cards to replace next year as it's starting to feel old now at over 130,000 miles)

They are like 4k now, 6k for a really good one... True bargains.

If you can't shake the desire for a 6pot small BMW with RWD that is more modern.. Then a last model M*35i/M*40i fits the bill. Or M2.
They will hold value as they will be the last of the straight 6 RWD 1/2 series.
Similar to the 130i, That was the last non turbo, large engined 1 series and subsequently holds value and interest, also a good talking point for petrol heads alike.
My 130i never fails to make me grin.
There is something about a large engine in a small car that turbo'd 2ltr 4pots fail to bring..

I also have a 130i, it's 13 years old and 163,000 miles of which I've done 6 years and 89,000 miles. Love it, naturally aspirated straight six, manual, rear wheel drive, fast but (reasonably) discreet.

125i coupe now owned for 4 years through which it's been very reliable. Its got a slightly strangled version of the 3.0 six pot found in the 130 but a simple £300 remap un-strangles it freeing up an extra 50hp.
Bit of a hidden gem in my opinion and can't see me getting rid any time soon, the engine is an absolute peach.

Mdavids - if it’s the same N53 engine I had in a 325i (2009) unfortunately (after much digging) I found out that there is new hardware required to get up to 30i power not just remap. The 330i of the same ilk has a trick 3-stage/length intake manifold that opens and shuts valves at different rpm creating a mild forced induction effect.

Mind you it might be a totally different engine as mine was not reliable at all and treated injectors as a consumable, in which case please ignore me!

I sold my 135 in January and changed to a Golf R estate. It was low miles and only three years old but my kids were finding the back pretty cramped - it's tiny really, but I absolutely loved it.

The Golf should have been perfect for me, but every time I drove it I thought I'd fall asleep with boredom - too capable, probably... Build quality was hugely disappointing and not close to the 1 series, which some people think is a low bar already (I disagree). The engine was clearly capable, but utterly unlovable.

I tolerated it/tried to love it for 9 months but I've just swapped it for a F31 340i tourer. Not as nice to drive as the 135, but bigger. It's a lovely place to be, and although the steering is much too light, the engine is a cracker and will be the last of the RWD 6 pots.

I'm just back 500 miles over the last two days, sat at about 70mph and it returned 43mpg. The Golf would have been 37mpg (ish) on the same journey.

I think I'll keep it for 10 years or so while they figure out electric vs hydrogen.

I sold my 135 in January and changed to a Golf R estate

I was thinking it may have to be a Golf R next but your feedback (and others) puts me off 🙁

It is a shame, I keep seeing 140s around (there’s one on my street) and thinking that when the time comes one would be a good replacement/upgrade for the Polo GTI. I’m not sure I’d be so excited about an X Drive one and definitely not FWD.

My E91 330D Touring is lovely despite being diesel and auto, it’s made me a bit of a BMW fan after always being into VAG cars.

Environmentalists, don't look in this thread......

I quite fancy an Infiniti Q50.

2.0T Petrol or the 3.5 V6 Hybrid - cheap as chips at 3-4 years old. The hybrid is seriously fast.

Yes I know Infiniti pull out of Europe in March but they have either Merc or Nissan engines, and are made from stock parts of both. The hybrid has the 350Z engine. Big Nissan fan here as ours have been massively reliable.

I love my petrol cars, but I do now feel some guilt and receive some shaming. Next family car will be at least HEV. Current in a mk5 gti which I am enjoying more than my m135i despite the 100hp missing. I like the hydraulic steering and the go kart handling. In fact I liked my 330i more than the m135i too.

I’m just back 500 miles over the last two days, sat at about 70mph and it returned 43mpg.

That is impressive. My F30 320i would only give 40-41 in that situation.

I owned an m135i for about 3 years. It was an lsd and some decent dampers away from perfection. Great car.

Now have an m4, which is pretty damn good, feels like a big Caterham 7.

M135i here - great car, traction is terrible though, any time you put your foot down a light comes up on the dash warning you that you have no traction!

Fantastic otherwise, good mpg on long journeys with the 8sp auto and pokey around town.

Always on the look out for the next car - thinking Panamera at the mo, unpopular choice. Before the climate change activists get in, I'm in London and drive 20 miles a week.

Mdavids – if it’s the same N53 engine I had in a 325i (2009) unfortunately (after much digging) I found out that there is new hardware required to get up to 30i power not just remap.

Nope its the N52 and the only difference between the 125 and 130 is the Ecu map. It's a proven remap that just removes the restrictions from the throttle opening and timing settings. I've had it done and the rolling road figures took it from 211 to 268hp, its very noticeable.

traction is terrible though, any time you put your foot down a light comes up on the dash warning you that you have no traction!

But that’s the point and perhaps you are in the wrong car for what you need. The point of a good rwd car IMO is that you can’t just floor it every where, get an xdrive version if you want that.

RWD for me is not about power but the fact you need skill to get the best out of them. All wheel drive or front wheel drive can’t match that finesse of balancing throttle out of a corner to steer you out.

The roads are getting to that nice winter greasy state too at the min and overtaking the other day in my 330e (which has ridiculous instant torque) I just floored it pulling out and the back end went. It’s great now remembering that I need to feed the throttle in to find the limit of grip, rather than just dumping all the power at once. Makes the driving experience all the more fun!

Just would be nice if that could all happen with an engine that makes a nice noise too!

Having said that I do quite like the very quiet noise of the electric motor with ICE off.

Used C63 estate? Although I don’t think the dog would enjoy it much 😉

I just bought one to scratch the V8 itch before going electric. Got 33mpg driving from Heathrow to East Mids. I know that's not great but with 500bhp it's not bad.... I do cycle to work so it does, in my self centred and broken logic, offset the poor eco credentials (although the less said about the flights environmental impact the better)

Mdavids - glad to hear it, my local BMW Indie said the N52 is a much stronger and better engine than the N53. 👍 Think that means you also don’t have any of that direct injection nonsense which made mine sound like a diesel on tickover!

Car magazines were warning in the late 00s that the days of big ICE engines were coming to a close and they've been more or less correct. We've known for ages that cars are pants for the environment and the big engined ones are, rightly or not, just the pin-up.

ICE cars will go the same way as steam power. An emotional experience and a curiosity, but not mainstream.

I had my fun when I could (supercharged Golf R32 etc etc), but bikes are much more fun and a lot cheaper!

I agree with the points above re. Traction and LSD. Unfortunately the M135i is only a “good “RWD up to about 7/10ths. Above that it is quite prickly - I think a combo of open diff, poorly damped/sprung and short wheelbase. There’s not a lot of fun or finesse to be had in the twistys with the traction on/off/in-between. The open diff will just spin an inside rear before cutting power on/off (depending on TC). As above it’s about £4,000 away from being a proper drivers car.. it’s not the “weapon” some people make out. It’s very fast but not loads of fun..

I have a 135i with an LSD and stage 2 remap. It’s lairy, to the point of being dangerous. Even on a standard map with LSD it’s not much better. Basically the engine is too big for the car. Buy an A45 instead would be my recommendation.

Does make a nice noise though

Really liked our old M Sport 1 Series and it's such a shame they dropped RWD. Never mind though as I had a good blast in a i3s and am completely sold. Great bit of kit, RWD too!

Environmentalists, don’t look in this thread……

Whoa, careful there Jeremy/Piers. It's ok to knit your own yoghurt and drive fast cars you know, just ask Lewis Hamilton 😆

But that’s the point and perhaps you are in the wrong car for what you need. The point of a good rwd car IMO is that you can’t just floor it every where, get an xdrive version if you want that.

RWD for me is not about power but the fact you need skill to get the best out of them. All wheel drive or front wheel drive can’t match that finesse of balancing throttle out of a corner to steer you out.

The roads are getting to that nice winter greasy state too at the min and overtaking the other day in my 330e (which has ridiculous instant torque) I just floored it pulling out and the back end went. It’s great now remembering that I need to feed the throttle in to find the limit of grip, rather than just dumping all the power at once. Makes the driving experience all the more fun!

You are Surfmatt and I claim my £5!
RWD is useless in any kind of snow, and I’ve had a BMW spinning its rear wheels in heavy rain heading towards J18 on the M4, due to the water sitting in the channels made by trucks.
I got off the motorway at that point, it was getting too scary.
I’ve driven enough BMW’s* to have developed a healthy dislike, I wouldn’t own one if it was given me.
*1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Series, X2, X3, X5 Series.

and I’ve had a BMW spinning its rear wheels in heavy rain

I’ve had FWD cars do that with bad / worn tyres. So far my BMW has been fine in some horrendous weather, I do use Uniroyal Rainsport tyres though and don’t let them get too low before changing them.

And as for snow I’ve not had to try it yet but I do have winter tyres (wider than ideal at 255) and snow chains. I’ll report back if it snows this year. If it goes really badly I’ll be in the wife’s Polo.

RWD is useless in any kind of snow

No it is not, you just need to be prepared for the fact that you need opposite lock on quite a lot and stay from idiots going too slowly up hills (the ones in fwd cars who think the answer is to drive really slowly in 1st gear revving the engine hard, determined to wear out their tyres)

I scratched the V8 itch just over a year ago. Got hold of a 2013 C63 AMG wagon. It was amazing but stupid! Way waaaaaay too fast for the roads.

The thrill I used to get from the acceleration in my old Subaru Forrester Turbo getting up to speed would get you to way over 100 far too easily

You could see the fuel gauge going down, I once almost ran out of petrol in a traffic jam. £90 to fill it would get me about 200 miles

I had to switch after 5 months due to more miles for work. Now in a C250 wagon, £80 to fill, almost 700 miles.

Never had so many boy racers pull absolutely crazy manoeuvres to get past me when I’m just driving along like normal

Still want to get a newer 4.0 version though 😉

If it goes really badly I’ll be in the wife’s Polo.

You’ll be better than fine. A RWD on decent winter tyres will out perform a FWD car on non-winter tyres in snow.

For that matter, a RWD with good winter tyres will out perform a 4WD on snow on normal tyres too.

Oh god who mentioned snow and grip and set them all off!

Now we're going to have 5 pages of my (insert type of drivetrain) can climb up the side of Everest with one snow tyre fitted, you're all rubbish drivers, blah blah blah 😂

😂 yeah, probably.

Nothing to do with driving god status, just suitable tyres.

Here, a quick search to save 5 pages... 4WD regular, vs RWD winter. Lots of results, all the same.

Edit, wrong link:

Don't be sad

I appreciate we can mourn the passing of something and clearly this post isn’t addressed to me but why’s it sad? Are we really still viewing cars as an entertainment platform?

My mates wife has an AMG GL43... She bought it last year and it's bonkers, it's a silly car for a road network like we have here in the UK. I can almost see the benefit for Autobahns, but even then driving at 150mph is silly.

So, she has it in comfort mode and thats it. She has one of those MercMe Apps that tells you where and what the car is doing.. my mate has been telephoned by her on occasion when he's nicked it for the day to "can you take my car out of sport ++ mode please" It's hilarious simply for the fact that we're on our way home form the sailing club in a traffic queue...

I just don't get why we need 4.3ltrs and Sport ++ modes on cars.

When I got my last car, it was definitely in my mind that it might be my last fossil fuel car... So I went through a list of more or less daft options, nearly went with a V8 5 series because when else am I ever going to own a rwd v8?

My mates wife has an AMG GL43…

I just don’t get why we need 4.3ltrs and Sport ++ modes on cars.

Good thing it’s only a turbocharged 3 litre then.

And the answer to your question is “because it’s fun”. There are other places and countries to drive cars you know. That electric 3 series above looks hilarious.

Sad indeed but the down sizing was inevitable. I have had a facelift M135i for a couple of years and love it, did a trip to Scotland last summer, 3 bikes on the rear rack, kids bike and medium roof box and saw 40-42mpg sitting at 65mph. Normal commuting I get 35mpg. Short blasts.... Not so good. (That's with stage 2 map).

Once you're out of town the big engine is much more efficient than a smaller 4 pot. A colleague of mine went from a 2.0l Focus ST to a 340i and his mpg went from 34 to 40 driving to work.

There are other places and countries to drive cars you know

But us foreigners would rather you left your RHD heavy metal monsters at home and hired a LHD Clio locally.

Happy biker - which rack have you got on the back of your M135i? I ended up getting roof bars after dealer saying towbar was not possible on that car.
Thanks

They were on to a winner with the E39. Miss my 530 M sport.

Then went hit and miss.

I was going to buy an M2 but it sounded crap.

Fully understand...
Despite my E91 325i’s replacement coming next month, I have decided not to part with it. I simply can’t face it! It’s got 145000 on it and feels like new.

It’s the last of the N/A 3.0 straight sixes and it sounds magical. ❤️
It’ll do over 30mpg on the motorway occasionally so it’s cheap to run for 20k miles a year. It’s going into semi retirement and I plan to half it’s mileage.

I’m about to downsize to a small-engined VAG 4wd 2.0 turbo estate for its replacement, which is significantly quicker but will lack any character in comparison.🙁

Nickewan, it's a Westfalia from PF Jones. Your dealer is sort of right, the 135 is not rated for towing, but there is a towbar for all the other F20/1s so just use that to look for options. Works fine with a Buzzrack and is completely hidden when detached. Obviously you can't tow a trailer but a bike rack is allowed.
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/bmw-1-series-hatchback-3-5-door-2011-onwards-westfalia-detachable-towbar.html