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Put 40€ in the van the other day. 2.37€ a litre.
Petrol was 2.50€.
Only filled the van because it's been sitting for over a month with just a dribble in the tank.
. I’d forgotten greenfield stamps became Argos.
Betcha haven't forgot the taste of the greenshield stamps thou 🙂
and around 1.80-2€ here in not so sunny Spain.
Saharan sand storm last night like being in a cheap sci-fi where they tint it orange or on Tatooine, very odd if you've never experienced one.
Seen it for £8.50 a gallon
Diesel is £1.89 litre or £8.58 here in galloway, so £17 round journey for my fortnightly trips to hospital, out of my very limited pip benefits (spms). Nope.....cant afford that with all the other food, electrical etc costs.
I see oil has dropped to $100 a barrel today - would it be too much to expect fuel retailers to pass on the saving straight away?
Couple of stations near us out of petrol, with queues forming at cheapest station. I did top up diesel @ £1.67/litre (from 1/2 tank) which I suppose is most peoples definition of panic buying. Next job: build loo roll fort.
would it be too much to expect fuel retailers to pass on the saving straight away?
yes.... very much so.
On the plus side there does seem to be a gradual drop in the barrel price going on - how long it takes for it to be reflected in forecourt prices is yet to be seen.
BoilerJuice are now actually giving prices for my area again (not that I'd use them) although interestingly they're quoting 128p for delivery in 2 weeks and 109p for delivery in 1 week!
We were in Inverness today and running low on diesel so filled up @ £172.9. I did wonder about putting in less as prices are possible going to fall again but the local filling stations are so much more expensive.
Is anyone else using a bit less throttle?
I'm doing a 240 mile round trip this weekend and will def be setting the cruise control lower than usual - and I'll come back via Costco to fill the tank back up (it was so much cheaper than everywhere else when I filled up 8 days ago).
We have 300 miles left in the tank of the camper. This weekend we have a 700 mile trip to collect something. Instead of doing it in the day we thought we may as well make a weekend of it hopefully with a bit of riding. Already looking at where we can pull off the motorways so as not to have to pay the silly prices. Local Tesco has gone up 10p over the last week and is at £1.65 however they haven't had an diesel in the last few days.
I’ll come back via Costco
you'll burn more than the savings on normal filling stations queueing to get in and out of the place if the Chadderton one is anything to go by.
I'm convinced the fuel prices at my local Tesco went up by 5p/litre during the 45mins I was in the shop last week. Still filled up afterwards as I was almost in the reserve and only get <250/miles out of a tank (at 20 mpg, ouch).
Betcha haven’t forgot the taste of the greenshield stamps thou 🙂
Now I haven’t. That’s a memory that could have stayed lost forever.
WE are still using the free glasses that came with the petrol in the eighties, think they came with Texico petrol. We still have some spare up in the loft just in case we break any.
you’ll burn more than the savings on normal filling stations queueing to get in and out of the place if the Chadderton one is anything to go by.
Might be true!
But when I went last week the 18p/L saving over the local Esso,BP, etc was def worth the 5-10 minute wait.
5 weeks into my new EV ownership, thank f##k!
70 mile round commute (site based), I reckon I'll be looking for something closer to home in the next few months.
I'm kinda thankful for my old school 2.0HDI Berlingo as despite annoying French car electrical problems it does nearly 60mpg and never seems to need filling up or it could be fuel gauge is faulty.....
I see oil has dropped to $100 a barrel today – would it be too much to expect fuel retailers to pass on the saving straight away?
Of course it would be too much, It only works one way with the fuel companies.
Is anyone else using a bit less throttle?
If I used any less I'd be standing still but watching some people you'd think it didn't matter. (maybe it doesn't to some people)
Here's me pumping 4* at .42p a litre.
I know lots of you have seen this one before but It's the only one I've got from my days as a petrol station owner.
I'm getting 50mpg+ out of my old petrol Fabia thankfully, otherwise the 430 commuting miles per week would be the end of my finances!
WE are still using the free glasses that came with the petrol in the eighties, think they came with Texico petrol. We still have some spare up in the loft just in case we break any.
I got a set of free tumblers and tall glasses free with Esso fuel when I first started driving in 1998, they're at my parent's house and are only for use by me! Strange how you don't see offers like that any more.
I'm at 60 mph on the motorway to work, but then I always have been. I'm not in any great rush to get to my desk!
Also an couple of days of my half ride/half drive commute is an effective 20% mpg improvement, that's well worth the effort if you can arrange it. As is a day working from home, another 20%.
Here’s me pumping 4* at .42p a litre.
I remember petrol hitting 50p / litre - we were just kids but being driven around by parents or grandparents, every time we'd pass a garage that was at 50p, that was a talking point. But that was also back in the day when people would put £5 in. If you put £5 in now, it'd get you a couple of miles down the road at best!
My sadly departed FIL was infamous for offering his Green Shield Stamps collection to anyone who would marry his daughter! I took so long to ask that they were out of date by the time we got to the altar, he wouldn't let his Nectar points go either.
Said wife has just come in and ranted "I've never spent so much on a tank of fuel" £85 in a mini apparently.
If Tiger Tokens were still one for every pound spent on fuel I’d have enough to buy a Lear Jet in about two weeks.
If I used any less I’d be standing still but watching some people you’d think it didn’t matter.
I have argued in the past that petrol and diesel aren't nearly expensive enough given the rate some folk seem to use it up! 😉
The list of prices someone posted on a previous page shows petrol to be no more expensive relatively than in the 80s
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/petrolprices.html
Its certainly too cheap to get many folk to change behaviour
Is anyone else using a bit less throttle?
Started idly wondering what the actual cost of each acceleration was on my drive to work over the weekend.
Will be riding to work 2 days a week until things calm down. Sod my hernia and knackered knee this will save me 200 miles a month.
Its certainly too cheap to get many folk to change behaviour
Somebody must surely have modelled the outcomes of reducing the national speed limits by 10mph or so?
The list of prices someone posted on a previous page shows petrol to be no more expensive relatively than in the 80s
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/petrolprices.html
/blockquote>Your link shows petrol prices in May 2021 when it was apparently 123.9 pence per litre. This thread is about current petrol prices which according to the OP 4 days ago was 170p per litre. Recently I have seen it at over 180p per litre.
There is every reason to believe that it is currently relatively more expensive than it was in the 80s.
Your link shows petrol prices in May 2021 when it was apparently 123.9 pence per litre. This thread is about current petrol prices which according to the OP 4 days ago was 170p per litre. Recently I have seen it at over 180p per litre.
There is every reason to believe that it is currently relatively more expensive than it was in the 80s.
Yeah but I (and I think TJ too) was referring to the more generic, ongoing issue, outwith this temporary blip.
Somebody must surely have modelled the outcomes of reducing the national speed limits by 10mph or so?
Remember the fuel crisis of the 70s ( I think it was then) when speed limits were dropped from 70 as the national speed limit to 50 or 60? someone must have data from then. A road speed limits were never put back to 70
fair enough Ernie but as Scotroutes says I meant the general trend
Edit - and as cars have become more fuel efficient the cost of fuel per mile is lower
back in the 70s 35 mpg was considered economical. Now 50 or 60 mpg is not uncommon
It’s made our holiday a bit more expensive, we’re 900 miles away from home at the moment in a not massively efficient van 😬
Its certainly too cheap to get many folk to change behaviour
Now 50 or 60 mpg is not uncommon
So it has changed the behaviour of many people - gas guzzlers are now less fashionable. Yeah?
Its certainly too cheap to get many folk to change behaviour
Still seems cheap enough that folks are happy to sit idling on nearby streets while stopped and chatting on their phones or eating crispy chicken in their cars.
So it has changed the behaviour of many people – gas guzzlers are now less fashionable. Yeah?
Not sure gas guzzlers were every really fashionable in the UK and I have been driving for almost 40 years. UK has typically preferred smaller cars it is just that cars are more efficient for same power now even with increased weight.
Compare say a 1L Metro with a 1L Aygo. Aygo has more power and achieves extra 15 MPG.
Anyway, TJ is clearly referring to a change in behaviour of people driving less and using other methods of getting around. I would take a guess that has not happened. Was looking positive during pandemic but all that is long forgotten and roads are no better than they were pre pandemic.
Of course 45 years of high petrol prices has effected people's behaviour, both in what they buy and how they use their cars. As has ever increasing parking and congestion charges.
It might not have changed behaviour to the point where no one owns a car and everyone uses public transport but it doesn't mean that it hasn't affected behaviour.
people commute further and for longer, people still drive short urban distance, average miles driven has not dropped
Cars have become more efficient, behaviour has not changed significantly
only get <250/miles out of a tank (at 20 mpg, ouch).
Pfffttt... amateur. I managed a gargantuan 47 miles from half a tank last week. I've now taken it upon myself not to drive again until mid-April.
Your link shows petrol prices in May 2021 when it was apparently 123.9 pence per litre. This thread is about current petrol prices which according to the OP 4 days ago was 170p per litre. Recently I have seen it at over 180p per litre.
There is every reason to believe that it is currently relatively more expensive than it was in the 80s.
It is, very much so. I know the maths isn't exact but if 123.9p/L in 2021 is the equivalent of 94.4p/L in 1983 then 179.9p/L is the equivalent of 137.1p/L in 1983, and represents a 52.3% increase in price over 5 years.
tjagain:
people commute further and for longer, people still drive short urban distance, average miles driven has not dropped
TJ as per earlier in this thread, you don't seem to grasp that people are commuting further due to property prices - few people can afford to live near their work and many (like me) end up living somewhere cheaper where there are no public transport options = long-ish commute.
You are very lucky that you were able to buy your first property when average prices were more affordable relative to average income, you also have a rental property that gives you an income - please stop banging on about people commuting. I would be very happy to be able to walk/cycle to work, however economics of unaffordable mortgage vs much cheaper cost of living of lower mortgage + fuel costs means I have some disposable income.
Is anyone else using a bit less throttle?
Yes, generally rolling along at speed limit +5kph (so an indicated 105kph for most of my journey) also using the ACC and not overtaking anything except trucks (which are doing 95).
Wasn't going much faster than that before TBH. Speeding tickets are expensive over here, so is fuel, there's also no traffic so you don't gain a huge amount by rushing everywhere.
Seeing around 60mpg (4.5l/100km) on a tank if i do a full week of commuting and not much else, if its WFH and lots of little trips as well it's more like 48-50mpg (5.5-6l/100km). That's in a large estate car, a fair chunk less than the official figures either way.
Somebody must surely have modelled the outcomes of reducing the national speed limits by 10mph or so?
Yeah, it's significant. Some countries have already reduced speed limits on certain roads to do this (amongst other benefits, noise, accidents.)
Bigger savings from not driving like dickheads though. Some of the autonomous drive simulations reduce consumption by 15% compared to a normal driver doing the same journey in the same time, if you use all the predictive stuff that's already available (traffic lights, roundabouts, speed limit changes) you can get more than 5%. It all adds up.
+1 @guest1 and 90% of the traffic on the road heading the same direction.
70 mile round trip commute. Next week planning to drive/ride combo some of it.
Don't expect a few pence on a litre to change behaviour. Once the car is bought, taxed, insured, serviced, and MOT,d it is going to get used.
Outwith congested city centres it is more convenient, faster, and for many journeys the only practical option.
Last job I left had moved the base from 7 miles away from home to 12 miles than to 20 miles. People don't always choose to work miles from home.
people are commuting further due to property prices
It's almost as if several factors affect whether someone drives a car, and fuel prices is just one consideration.
Is this possible?
Guest - are you really including the full costs of the commute?. Not the additional costs? Remember for someone like me that full cost would be all the costs of the car. several thousand a year as living in the city I do not need nor own a car.
I could buy a flat near me for under £200 000 ( not affordable on a nurse salary but lets ignore that). a place in the burbs would be the same or a bit less. Out in the sticks maybe £50 000 less. the reduced mortgage costs would be less than the full cost of the commute ie buying the car, insuring it, paying all the costs
I would get a bigger house in the burbs of course but not by much
Don’t expect a few pence on a litre to change behaviour. Once the car is bought, taxed, insured, serviced, and MOT,d it is going to get used.
This is more or less what I said 6 pages ago but you won't convince some of it...
Try bringing up 3 kids in a top floor tennement flat with no car and let us know how much fun you have.
My grandparents moved out of a city centre flat in the 1950s to bring up their family because it was shit. My parents did the same in the 80s.
What if people change jobs and the new one is only accessible by car? Are you expecting people to buy a new house each time they move job? Or just be unemployed in the hope they'll eventually find a job they don't need to drive to? What if they have a partner who also works and occasionally changes jobs? What if the employer closes their local office and moves it further away by 12 or even 35 miles?
All things that have happened to me.
Of course if employers were more flexible and allowed more working from home, or there was better public transport and cycle networks, maybe all this wouldn't be necessary. Which I think is the real answer here.
I could buy a flat near me for under £200 000 ( not affordable on a nurse salary but lets ignore that). a place in the burbs would be the same or a bit less. Out in the sticks maybe £50 000 less. the reduced mortgage costs would be less than the full cost of the commute ie buying the car, insuring it, paying all the costs
you still assume both people in the household work in the same vicinity.
What if the employer closes their local office and moves it further away by 12 or even 35 miles?
ill pre-empt a get the union involved response.
It might not have changed behaviour to the point where no one owns a car and everyone uses public transport but it doesn’t mean that it hasn’t affected behaviour.
Okay, so how has it affected behaviour then?
You may not want to look at this as it won't be lining up with what you are imagining
https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/summary
Even with the pandemic when you pretty much could drive anywhere the car use levels only dropped to 1994 level
not affordable on a nurse salary but lets ignore that
Isn't that the central point @guest1 is making though. A nurse can't afford it, so then has to move further and further away from work. At which point you have to start to make decisions about travel.
the reduced mortgage costs would be less than the full cost of the commute ie buying the car, insuring it, paying all the costs
Probably but in most commuters town/belts, the bus services are shocking, or just non existent, or might not go where you want when you want, or add 40 mins onto your commute, or be unsafe when you do shifts...Not everyone can cycle,
average miles driven has not dropped
Average miles driven per car has dropped over 20% since 2003. I can't see if that is offset by increased numbers of cars though.
EDIT no, average miles per person has fallen too:
More details here:
People on short-term or zero-hour contracts, or those who have to move home or workplace unexpectedly, cannot always predict or plan their travel patterns. This ongoing uncertainty can make owning a car a necessity for many on lower incomes, even when it is hard to afford one. Many people without a car can have fewer opportunities as a result.
Isn't that just because of covid?
Nickc - to move out of the city we would have had to buy and run two cars. ( shift work)
the cost of those two cars would be much greater than the reduced mortgage costs of living outside the town
Ooh, more fun here:
"82% of trips under one mile were walks in 2020"
the cost of those two cars would be much greater than the reduced mortgage costs of living outside the town
@TJ how many flats are there in the city centre?
Also after a quick scan on espc actually there are cheaper properties in the city than in the burbs or anything that would be less than 2 hours drive away
to move out of the city we would have had to buy and run two cars.
And people have to make that decision all the time, especially if you've got children. A couple of my friends still live in the city centre, but they're both lecturers at Manc Uni, don't have children, and have 1% income bracket salaries, and are carless people like you and them have choices because of your circumstance that others simply don't have.
@TJ how many flats are there in the city centre?
Lots - Edinburgh is mainly flats and residential right thru the city
Also after a quick scan on espc actually there are cheaper properties in the city
I don't doubt, but people have a basket of needs and wants when they're buying a house don't they? It's all a balancing act between school, locality, neighbours, noise, green space, travel outsdie the city, pollution...and on and on.
nickc - you are missing my point
it would have been cheaper for us to live carless in the city than live outside the city and commute. the mortgge savings would be less than the cost of the cars
No, I haven't, for YOU it would be cheaper, for other people, it may not have been. People do have different requirements and priorities.
actually there are cheaper properties in the city than in the burbs
That's because city properties are smaller, don't have a garden and the burbs are generally nicer.
Right - now we are drilling down a bit
so actually the decision to commute is not about cheapness but about aspiration to have a garden
to me by the way the burbs make my heart sink. I have 25 restaurants withing 5 mins walking distance, I have shops within a hundred m, I have access to busses and trains
What I have missed out on? A garden and a garage
No, I haven’t, for YOU it would be cheaper, for other people, it may not have been.
Errmmmm - no for any couple who works in Edinburgh
Have a look on espc for property. there is nothing available withing comutting distance where the decreased mortgage would be less than the cost of running two cars.
The real truth of the matter is if I were starting out now I would not have been able to afford to take a job in Edinburgh. Both living in the city and commutting would be totally unaffordable.
That’s because city properties are smaller,
I bet my flat has more m2 than most burbs houses of a similar value
Whereas I would rather have a garden and a garage as I have no interest in going to restaurants. Everyone has different priorities.
I live in rural location because I love it and can't think I will ever live in a town again.
That means I must have a car so I have a car. I have a very efficient car but use it for around 10,000 miles per year.
Yes I could get the one bus per day to the nearest town and then walk or get another bus to work but getting to work at 12:30 each day may not be good for my career...
Over the last 20 years my car use has not changed AT ALL.
so actually the decision to commute is not about cheapness but about aspiration to have a garden
And this comes back to what I said some time ago on one of these threads - how much niceness do we deserve? How much SHOULD we have?
Also TJ - living in a city centre flat with kids is a lot more difficult. Small kids really appreciate gardens to run about in, and older kids need to play outside. That's quite hard to arrange in a city centre.
Lots – Edinburgh is mainly flats and residential right thru the city
Enough for everyone to move out of the suburbs and into one?
Errmmmm – no for any couple who works in Edinburgh
As long as their income is high enough, and the job stable If you're on zero hours, or piece work, or inconsistent locations or any number of external factors, then a car less city centre life may not be.
I bet my flat has more m2 than most burbs houses of a similar value
But does it have the usable sort of space that a family might need? 3 beds? a couple of toilets? It's not all about m2.
You're lucky that your circumstances are such that you can make thee sorts of decisions, others aren't in that position.
And lots of folk don't live in cities so the whole discussion is moot.
I spent about 10 years in jobs which were 30 miles away, and required travel. I changed this about 15 or so years ago to one within 10 miles that I could cycle too. All went well for a while until I got my spine broken on the commute. Back to the car until covid hit. Since being back in the office, I've opted to cycle again, but along the canal. The car is used mainly at weekends for bike stuff and going to Wales. Must say I've been seeing what mpg I can get out of my 20 year old large petrol saloon. Managed 45 mpg over 75 miles to Wales. I recon I won't be leaving the bike roof rack on the car over the summer this time though with fuel prices.
People on short-term or zero-hour contracts, or those who have to move home or workplace unexpectedly, cannot always predict or plan their travel patterns. This ongoing uncertainty can make owning a car a necessity for many on lower incomes, even when it is hard to afford one. Many people without a car can have fewer opportunities as a result.
When we came back to the UK in 2001 we made a decision on where to buy a house based on the reality that no job could be guaranteed, therefore we'd live somewhere 'handy' for lots places (plus airports as the jobs I did normally required travel).
In the world that many of us live, reality is that the 'flexibility' of using a car is FORCED on us.
So we now have the moving goalposts
its not cheaper to work in a city and live in the burbs / dormitory towns. So now its about what type of place you want to live in
thats fine. chose to commute because you want a garden. Your choice. But you are paying ( once you factor in the total cost of the cars needed) more not less overall and using up a lot of time doing so.
You’re lucky
Nothing to do with luck. its a result of conscious decisions
therefore we’d live somewhere ‘handy’ for lots places
which is what we did by living in the city. Both Julie and I have had multiple jobs in the 30 years we lived here. all within muscle power of home.
Ok chaps - thread drift and I have made my point
And lots of folk don’t live in cities so the whole discussion is moot.
Yeah a lot do, and the tangent is about the problems of city living so not moot at all.
its a result of conscious decisions
But clearly there aren't enough local jobs for everyone to do them locally! This is the fundamental problem. Not everyone can do what you did, there's not physically enough space. It's what we used to do, then we ran out of space, so we couldn't do it any more.
It looks like you're blaming the world's problems on people making morally feeble decisions, but there's so much more to it than that.
The real truth of the matter is if I were starting out now I would not have been able to afford to take a job in Edinburgh. Both living in the city and commutting would be totally unaffordable.
And yet a lot of people do exactly that. Why? Because they have no choice.
When we came back to the UK in 2001 we made a decision on where to buy a house based on the reality that no job could be guaranteed, therefore we’d live somewhere ‘handy’ for lots places (plus airports as the jobs I did normally required travel).
^^^This is the heart of it. The UK jobs market is VERY fluid. Jobs for life rarely exist even if you want one. Situating somewhere which gives you flexibility/adaptability is crucial.
We wanted to be within 10 miles, but property prices were too high/sizes too small for what we wanted 8 years ago. 25 miles out, we could get something cheap enough/sizable enough and have disposable income, but MUCH higher fuel/car costs and no public transport. The compromise we made was to be 17 miles out. The house was MUCH more expensive, but I can cycle and our mileage drops by 2/3rds. The mortgage is MUCH more, but at least the payments are going into something rather than just being burned on fuel and placed into depreciating assets like a car. The first 5 years were very tough financially.