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Holy cow on a stick - I went out in the car today for work and saw a Shell garage selling unleaded at 1.7? and diesel at £1.8? (Can’t remember exactly).
What’s the most expensive you’ve seen it?
I last filled up at a Sainsburys and it was circa £1.47 a litre I think. I have a plug in hybrid car so am trying to use the electric as much as possible but I have a 500 mile round trip to do soon and I fear it’s going to cost quite a bit!
I fully understand why - the Ukraine thread is to discuss the reasons why so keep that out of this thread!!
Call it schadenfreude but I'm laughing inside at this as I cycle past the forecourt (but not as much as last year when there was panic buying and queues a mile long) 😀
Tbf that's not a lot of money to poison kids and destroy entire ecosystems.
I have stopped using my car unless emergency. I cannot afford £1.80 odd for diesel plus the additional on gas/leccy. Standard petrol was £1.60ish at our local tesco forecourt the other day. And, anecdotally, Mrs Fazzini swears that the new petrol E10 doesn't last as long.
Petrol £1.58 and diesel £1.68 at the local cheap garage.
Already had conversations with MrsMC that we may have to reduce "leisure" driving.
And just as my employer is demanding we all go in 3 days a week - 25 miles a day and new job/responsibilities make going by bike logistically a pain in the bum now.
I've seen a picture of £2.06 from a colleague.
Tbf that’s not a lot of money to poison kids and destroy entire ecosystems.
No. You're right. We'll let them starve by not being able to get to work and earn a living, so end up on benefits and not be able to do lots of things etc etc etc. Shaming folks didn't take long on this thread did it?
And, anecdotally, Mrs Fazzini swears that the new petrol E10 doesn’t last as long.
it doesn't, your car will run something like 5-10% less efficient on it.
On Wednesday the Texaco over the road from the office was trying to sell diesel at 1.95/l, making the BP 200m down the road look positively reasonable at 1.73.
Yep, was 1:50 for petrol and 1:60 for diesel today in Mansfield.
Remember it being less than a pound in the first lockdown.
My fuel bill has nearly doubled and don't know how some closer to the bread line are coping.
Cycled past my local garage on 3rd March, saw diesel at £1.57 and thought that I'd best fill up fairly sharpish. Didn't go that day, ended up going on the evening of 4th March and in that time it had gone up to £1.64.
Now, a week later, it's at £1.70.
Most expensive I've seen was a fairly rural garage selling diesel at £1.89
Still cheaper per litre than decent beer! 🤣🤣🍺
Everyone knows that this is going to hurt and everyone needs to make changes. It's also possibly going to drive some useful environmental benefits.
The problem is, society has been building away from those necessary changes for decades, despite knowing this was where we were heading.
I remember being in school 30 something years ago learning that has and oil were a finite resource.
Nothing we can do, I'm not gonna drive less just because the price has gone up. The largest cost in car ownership is still the depreciation cost which you pay while the car is sat on the drive so you may as well use the thing.
In time we'll all just adjust anyway because that's what you do.
MrsDoris paid £1.62 on Wednesday for unleaded (abergavenny Sainsburys i think), and on Thursday we saw £1.70 in Dursley. A colleague has seen it at £2 near them.
Fortunately, we only get through one tank every 6-8 weeks, so it won't be too bad for us. But all the people in the EV thread who have to tow a caravan to the alps and back every other fortnight will be feeling it.
Unless you're moving a significant load or are disabled using a car for trip of <1 mile is frankly a joke.
Nothing we can do, I’m not gonna drive less just because the price has gone up
and there in one sentence is why most of the world will be uninhabitable in a few decades
Unless you’re moving a significant load or are disabled using a car for trip of <1 mile is frankly a joke.
And that is a random post that's doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting. No one mentioned doing trips of less than 1 mile....
The largest cost in car ownership is still the depreciation cost which you pay while the car is sat on the drive so you may as well use the thing.
Your doing it wrong mate
Really short trips get all the hate but they don't use up that much fuel because they are so short. Driving across the country for meetings or commuting 30 miles a day is far worse.
Still cheaper per litre than decent beer! 🤣🤣🍺
Yup...tastes like shit though
Really short trips get all the hate but they don’t use up that much fuel because they are so short.
Fair point but they do contribute to local congestion and pollution.
Filled my works lorry up at £1.61.9 yesterday, same garage was £1.71.9 today.......
I'm pleased I cycle to work.
I've just started a new job with an 81 mile round commute, the price rises are hurting quite a bit! It's not for too long though, hopefully I'll get confirmation I've got the job permanently then it'll be a case of moving close enough to cycle commute again.
What's scary is that the full hit of what's going on in Ukraine hasn't come through the system yet according to the company fuel card issuer (won't say who it is but it's one of the main oil companies). They're expecting prices to go up a decent amount more over the next two weeks then stay there for a while.
The largest cost in car ownership is still the depreciation cost which you pay while the car is sat on the drive so you may as well use the thing.
More you should keep on top of maintenance and not buy a new one until you need to. A few of my friends and family keep on saying I should change mine as it's 9 years old and has done nearly 140k. They can't see why I would spend a few hundred on getting new dampers for it and getting the A/C serviced as the whole car will be junk in the next year. Apart from the fact it runs smoother than it ever has, is still returning 50mpg+ without too much trouble, is still completely rust-free and has been paid for since it was 3 years old. If I fail to get it to 200k and 15 years old I'll be disappointed.
1.70 for unleaded and 1.80 for diesel at the esso down the road (small town just outside of Newcastle). Traffic still bonkers.. I do wonder what the tipping point will be to noticeably reduce car use.
Where did my post go?
... And mine! Looks like Putin at work.
Shaming folks didn’t take long on this thread did it
Its pathetic.
Most people on this forum have no idea how people less fortunate than themselves live, they really don't. To be honest I didn't until I got this new job and my eyes were opened.
Certain
Mostpeople on this forum have no idea how other peopleless fortunate than themselveslive - or care
I do wonder what the tipping point will be to noticeably reduce car use.
Conspiracy theorists might perhaps suggest that it's OPEC's revenge for its lockdown drop in profits 🤔 I would suggest nothing of the sort of course 🤣🤣🤣
Was that "small town" in the vicinity of Whitley Bay?
I paid 1.669 for Shell premium diesel two weeks ago. I just paid 1.759 for Texaco standard diesel.
I'm cycling to work and only using my car for longer journeys but as someone who isn't an IT contractor, middle management or dentist it's bloody painful.
Most people on this forum have no idea how people less fortunate than themselves live, they really don’t. To be honest I didn’t until I got this new job and my eyes were opened.
absolutely true and it infuriates me. However both me and my missus spent our entire working lives doing our best for the poor, the disabled and the unwell. You see a lot more of life then and see how many folk are so shafted deliberately by government policy
surprised I haven't seen more people on bikes on my commute but mustn't have reached tipping point yet🤷♂️
Ebiker with my charger plugged in the office at work or 16year old 55mpg depreciation free Berlingo.
Traffic still bonkers.. I do wonder what the tipping point will be to noticeably reduce car use.
i was wondering about this yesterday.
where i live had a fuel shortage in november/december. everyone was driving in a more economical fashion.
petrol is now $2.20/litre and people are driving in an uneconomical fashion (way over the speed limits everywhere).
my conclusion was that if you want people to drive less and with an eye on consumption then petrol would need to be rationed.
edit: and good public transport would help.
my conclusion was that if you want people to drive less and with an eye on consumption then petrol would need to be rationed.
Motorists paying the true cost without the massive public subsidy would help.
I filled up earlier, and cost £118 to fill a 5 series.
This driving malarkey is bloody expensive
Well the good news is that Brent crude has dropped to $111 a barrel from a high, earlier in the week, of $139.
I wonder how long that drop will take to get to the forecourts?
Motorists paying the true cost without the massive public subsidy would help.
Where's this subsidy you speak of?
🤣 it wasn’t.. South of the river so technically Gateshead!
There is something south of the river??? Its true! Every day is a school day 😉
It’s still too cheap
Motorists paying the true cost without the massive public subsidy would help.
interestingly, in canada the oil industry is massively subsidized. it is reckoned that if oil lost its subsidies renewable alternatives would be a similar price.
and this is happening while the government is subsidizing the purchase of electric cars, which as i understand it, simply pushes the issues of pollution upstream.
i also wonder how governments will make up the shortfall in duties when everyone is using electricity and not petrol in their cars. (obviously, there will be higher taxes levied on electricity used for cars but then the low-running-costs-that-offset-the-cost-of-a-new-car-you-didn’t-need argument goes out the window.)
interestingly, in canada the oil industry is massively subsidized
That's a myth. There are complex royalty/tax schemes to incentivise the exploitation of marginal resources. That isn't the same thing as handing over taxpayer money.
yeh, but…
do the alternative fuel industries get the same?
if you could share a link to a info, i’d be interested. (that’s not a passive aggressive chalange)
Where’s this subsidy you speak of?
roads apart from major trunk roads and motorways are paid for by local taxes levied on everyone. Major roads and motorways from general taxation
Deaths and illhealth caused by car drivers are paid for from general taxation Each death cost the country a million pounds on average
roadside car parking - that valuable land monopolized by car drivers - thats worth a lot of money average £1000 per car is the value of your free roadside parking
Motoring taxes only amount to a fraction of the true cost of motoring and these above are only some of the costs of private motoring that are paid from general taxation
Its a massive subsidy to private motoring
According to TF1 this evening reducing your speed from 130kmh to 110kmh saves about 2e/100km.
In the Netherlands they've introduced a 100kmph speed limit on motorways to help the environment, I like it. You don't really get anywhere significantly slower, it's less stressful driving and it costs less.
Having had to do quite a few trips to Manchester in recent years, the 50mph speed limits on the M6 were fantastic for fuel consumption
roads apart from major trunk roads and motorways are paid for by local taxes levied on everyone. Major roads and motorways from general taxation
Eveb if you don't own a car, you still need roads for the buses, ambulances, delivery drivers, maintenance workers, food supply chain, medicine, etc
Why on earth would that be paid for solely out of private car drivers pockets?
Now I'm certainly not saying the current system is perfect (or even good, and its certainly not environmentally friendly), but by living in a society where many people transport themselves by automobile, and there are large tarmaced public roads which are also used for commercial deliveries, busses, emergency services etc. you are reaping the benefit of such a society even if you have built a lifestyle for yourself such that car ownership is unnecessary.
I can no longer afford fuel or heating. It's becoming a pretty miserable existance
I was looking at the threads about gas prices and heating oil prices and feeling very smug that my heating and hot water is all done by a log burner and back boiler with free firewood, doesn't cost a penny.
.
I am now wondering if I could convert a Mk7 Transit to run on solid fuel? It is apparently possible to do with an old Landy
Eveb if you don’t own a car, you still need roads for the buses, ambulances, delivery drivers, maintenance workers, food supply chain, medicine, etc
i guess the argument would be that private motorists get more than their fair share and contribute more to the wear and tear of the roads than a non motorist
Really short trips get all the hate but they don’t use up that much fuel because they are so short.
No but they polute more. Cars on "choke" cats not hot lots of stop start in an urban environment.
lat - yes - and also we would need less and narrower roads without all those private cars on them
Well, it's an opinion gents, but not one I share.
I can no longer afford fuel or heating. It’s becoming a pretty miserable existance
And this comment, amongst all the pseudo environmental concern, is probably the most important. And everyone ignores it and continues their entitled bickering.
No but they polute more. Cars on “choke” cats not hot lots of stop start in an urban environment.
A lot of newer urban cars run very lean mixtures to make sure they get up to temperature quickly, including the cat.
When on a motorway, as the engine runs very lean, they have to dump fuel to cool the output and stop the cat from melting. So motorway running is lower mpg and more polluting.
I did a degree in environmental management in the 90's and even then we were learning that petrol is too cheap and the only realistic way to get society to change is charge more/tax.
Motoring taxes far outweigh the expenditure on road.
feeling very smug that my heating and hot water is all done by a log burner and back boiler with free firewood,
may i be the first to say that it doesn’t get around the question of pollution?
Prices are crazy. I was driving to work daily, pre covid, after many years commuting by bike due to a broken spine/injuries rom commuting. Covid saved a fortune, but now when we're back I've gone back to riding to work, but via the canal (I won't touch the roads in manchester at rush hour)
I'm saving £7 a day in fuel from not driving those 20 miles return in traffic. OK - I'm only in 2 days a week now.
Son uses 99 in his 'tuned' car - costing him a fortune - we've suggested he uses the family 'Aygo' for work trips/deliveries - would save him a fortune as it's amazing on fuel.
Motoring taxes far outweigh the expenditure on road.
Yes, but nowhere near the impact on society.
The 2009 Transport Select Committee report, Taxes and Charges on Road Users, calculated the total taxes and charges on UK road users as £48 billion per annum. The report quoted the typical annual expenditure on roads as about £8-9 billion.
In the same report, the Department for Transport estimated that the average marginal external cost of driving a car an additional kilometre is 15.5 pence allowing for the congestion (estimated at 13.1 pence per kilometre), infrastructure, accidents, local air quality, noise and greenhouse gases. This compares to 3.6 pence per kilometre paid in fuel duty and VAT.
may i be the first to say that it doesn’t get around the question of pollution?
May I be the first to suggest that sitting misrable and cold is a shit existance.....
IRC - that does not include all the costs of motoring. the costs of motoring are far more than road spending. many times more.
does it include deaths and illhealth from motoring pollution? does it include all the damage to buildings? Does it include the value of the land used for parking? does it cover all the costs of enforcing motoring law?
Motoring taxes far outweigh the expenditure on road.
I suspected that was the case but didn't have the source to back it up. Thanks.
Its not the true picture - see my list of things not included that are direct and indirect costs of mortoring
Your sausage rolls are going up from Greggs.... panic.....
It's a proper study though not just a list of things that may or may not be affected. Damage to buildings, really? What would that be then.
I can no longer afford fuel or heating. It’s becoming a pretty miserable existance
And this comment, amongst all the pseudo environmental concern, is probably the most important. And everyone ignores it and continues their entitled bickering.
We've willingly created a dependency on cars. It's a very new thing. For many people on this forum, it's happened within their lifetimes. Fuel is not the problem - it's very cheap. The problem is when everything we do requires it and there are no alternatives.
Transport costs are one of the biggest outgoings for many households, which is something previous generations haven't had to deal with at all. For aslong as people are forced to travel long distance for everyday stuff, to go shopping, to take kids to school, go to the doctors, post-office, etc, they're going to have a hard time paying for it. And this is an issue that's gradually becoming worse every day in the UK as everything is designed around that increasing dependency.
The problem is when everything we do requires it and there are no alternatives.
Hence my original comment that got berated. I'm not going to reduce the amount I drive my car because 95 percent of my miles are for work which is kind of my job. As usually with price rises, we will have to just accept it because we don't have a choice.
Read up and learn - that is a very narrow definition only counting road building which is a small part of the costs of motoring. What about all the deaths - each one cost a million pounds. all the illhealth from pollution - thats a cost
Traffic vibration damages buildings and it cost millions a year.
You think it’s expensive now !!
Traffic vibration damages buildings and it cost millions a year.
Sorry, you've lost me, what?
1.90 at the BP down the road from me (It is the one nearest to the M62 though) Paid knocking on 1.70 at Morrisons earlier (I'd cycle to work but try getting a van full of decorating gear in a camelbac)
Sorry, you’ve lost me, what?
Traffic causes vibration in the ground. these vibrations are transferred to buildings, this damages the buildings.
Now what about the rest of the costs of motoring that are not just roads? cost of enforcing motoring law? Deaths and illhealth? Value of the land used for parking that land belongs to all but is monopolized by car drivers.
Traffic causes vibration in the ground. these vibrations are transferred to buildings, this damages the buildings.
I'm happy to have a sensible debate but I can see you're just trolling now.
I was shocked and dismayed to discover that literally none of the VAT on peanuts pays for more peanuts. PEANUTS I tells ya!
Heat, food or fuel. If you're lucky, you'll soon get to pick two. If you're unlucky, you only get to pick one.
When that happens, all those who don't worry about paying for any of them will wonder why everything around them has stopped functioning.
Are HMRC going to revisit 45ppm?
Filled mine and my wife’s cars yesterday, £204…
So to all those being cleverbollocks about this:
Yeah, a car-centric society not ideal. Congestion, pollution, blah blah... I totally agree. But what's your alternative? How about you come up with a better idea?
Electric vehicles will help (or at least, arguably, displace the problem), but roll-out is slow, the infrastructure isn't in place and the range of an affordable EV isn't practical. I looked at this when changing cars recently, a little electric runabout costs about the same as a regular sized ICE car. But the range is 200 miles (and that's no doubt in laboratory conditions) - great for my OH to nip to work and back, not so clever when we went on holiday to Cornwall last year and it took 8 hours one way and 10 the other. In an EV that'd be before factoring in stopping to charge at least once and probably twice to be on the safe side. My front door opens directly onto the street so I can't have a charge point on my non-existent drive unless they're going to dig up the pavement so I'd have to park on Tesco carpark every night.
Public transport? Great if you're in London where it actually works, or most other cities where it mostly works, but for the rest of the country you're lucky to get a bus once an hour going vaguely where you need to go.
Cycling? I don't think there's anyone here under any delusions about what the great unwashed generally think about cyclists but even if that attitude were to change, who's going to be wanting to jump on a bicycle in the middle of a blizzard? How are they going to get a week's shopping home?
What about people out in rural areas? My boss lives in a field somewhere, his next door neighbour is about 20 miles away. Maybe he should get a horse.
And then there's the commuters. I don't do it any more but I used to commute every day from Accrington to central Manchester, and before that to the wrong side of Warrington. That's 500 miles a week just to get to work. Say 35mpg, probably conservative for sitting on the M6 for most of it, that's 60 gallons = 270L at last week's £1.59 is £430 - five grand a year - just to get to work. What's the answer here? Move house? Today I'd be arguing that many people can and should be home working but that's not right much use if you're a plasterer.
Unnecessary trips, sure, this is a big one. It's almost quicker for me to walk to the supermarket than drive and the School Run phenomenon has been well discussed. But that's going to take a paradigm shift in mentality.
Some people were already under the cosh before all this happened. Suddenly they're facing a 50% rise in domestic fuel with further huge increases rumoured to be on the way, now auto fuel prices are rocketing, and, well. It might reduce usage and make people think twice about being more efficient so yay, but at what cost? You can gleefully rub your hands together from your middle-class ivory tower like smug pricks all you like but the uncomfortable truth is that for some people a car a necessity. Reducing dependence is fantastic but that's not going to happen overnight and some people are going to suffer very badly before that happens. Some might not even be that fortunate, this is going to cost lives. And you'd have to be a special kind of sociopath to find joy in that.
I’m happy to have a sensible debate but I can see you’re just trolling now.
He isn't at all, it's a well-known and studied issue.