Sitting in a queue in a car is bonkers to me yet hundreds of thousands of us do it every day and never question why.
Because we've all been drip fed adverts and magazines and newspapers and all that shizzle in which the almighty motor car has been promoted right left and centre as the single shiny object to show off your success with.
Arriving without your status penis is simply not going to occur to anyone who has spent the entire rest of their lives consuming a diet of four wheel fashion.
We nearly got caught out in the camper this weekend, coming home form holiday. We were only an hour from home and had managed to steer clear of the news all week, so were unaware of what was going on. Happened to overhear a conversation in the pub, and realised we re low enough not to get home so would need fuel.
We left where we were on Friday and literally queued for an hour in a traffic jam because of people waiting for a petrol station 🤦♂️
Ended up taking the cross country route home, found a station (5th we had tried), filled up and went home. Everywhere locally all weekend was out, but thankfully we are Tesla w*nkers so not an issue now.
Quite sobering to think that loads of people are buying £10 or £15 at a time.
🤔
Plenty of people don't have £40 cash at any one time
I’m been wondering if it’s all the fault of the media, and I really don’t know.
A bit from column A a bit from column B I think.
Perhaps it's best to think of fuel distribution before last week being 'adequate' for normal demands, but thanks to Brexit having little resilience, which was essentially what was reported on (perhaps rather sensationally), but then spun into a potential "supply crisis", which in turn became a self fulfilled prophecy because people don't read beyond a headline.
So what should "the media" do?
Not report the fact that fuel supply was essentially in a delicate balance due in no small part to a diminished pool of skilled labour, traceable (at least in part) back to Brexit?
Or keep schtum for fear of exposing our once great nation's weakened state?
It's an editorial decision, but once one outlet has chosen to run such a story, everyone else will follow suit and the panic buying is triggered.
Last time I filled the van, it cut off at £99...
Quite sobering to think that loads of people are buying £10 or £15 at a time.
🤔
Plenty of people don't have £40 cash at any one time
At what point do you think the government will ever be able to instigate the post brexit import checks they keep deferring?
First drive into work for me, in ages (I've only been into the office twice since April 2020).
Apart from the HGVs and a few other 'fuddy duddys' I was the slowest vehicle on the road sitting at 60mph.
I even got overtaken by a pick-up truck towing a caravan.
Maybe if people slowed down a bit, they wouldn't have to queue to brim their tanks.....
66.6mpg, in case you were wondering 😉
I am supposed to be back in the office on Thursday, although if I can't fill up this evening it will be touch & go whether I'll be able to. Might have to drive halfway & cycle the rest, which is quite pleasant but takes up a chunk of time.
The others all have long range new cars (Tesla, Kia and Hyundai) and use them for every journey, even ones they used to walk before.
In London, there are a lot of people trading in / selling their ICE cars for EVs in advance of the ULEZ expanding out to the North & South Circulars in October for this very reason - to keep on driving.
Clearly the money isn't an issue if you can afford a new EV (even on a lease deal), it's just seen a s away to "beat" the ULEZ charge. Media as usual have been doing their standard thing about "the hard-working motorist seen as a cash cow" to stoke things up a bit.
Because we’ve all been drip fed adverts and magazines and newspapers and all that shizzle in which the almighty motor car has been promoted right left and centre as the single shiny object to show off your success with.
I think this is a deliberately cynical interpretation of how people operate.
People use cars all the time because they have cars, and then they get cars because they use them all the time. It's easier than walking, cycling or getting the bus. It's that simple.
And small companies struggling to recover from Covid? Fuel is one of our biggest expenses.A tank full might last two or 3 days. There isn’t at present a suitable electric alternative for our vehicles.
So sounds like you "need" the fuel, and would still buy it at double today's prices, and have to suck that up for a week. Is that really that much worse than the chaos of not knowing if you can get the fuel you need or driving around for 2 hrs and sitting in a queue for hours.
I guess what surprised me though is that the prices have gone up a few pence rather than profiteering on desperation / managing supply (I don't believe the garages are doing this because they are worried about a carer affording the fuel to visit old Elsie or your business' post covid viability) - I must be missing something.
“ So what should “the media” do?
Not report the fact that fuel supply was essentially in a delicate balance due in no small part to a diminished pool of skilled labour, traceable (at least in part) back to Brexit?”
I think that would have been the responsible thing to do.
There are c8,300 petrol stations and the supply constraint is reported to have impacted the low tens of those / 0.3%.
On any given day some petrol stations are closed for refurbishment, tank inspections, new pumps being installed etc etc - the number is probably the same.
If we take another sector, is it national news if 0.3% of schools, GP surgeries or corner shops are running at reduced capacity or at worst, shut for a day or two?
When you have a situation where the public has no confidence in the ability of government/private industry to maintain essential supply chains, then this kind of behaviour is inevitable. People have noted earlier fuel/bog roll shortages, they understand that, in the short term, things will be scarce, and are determined not to be caught on the wrong side of that scarcity.
Next time around it will be worse, because people have run out of fuel, or spent Sunday searching for it, and don't want to be in that position again.
Labelling it as entirely 'panic buying' is a misunderstanding. Sensible people now understand the pattern, and take steps to make sure they have what they need.
Likewise, blaming the media is, for the most part, another get-out clause for politicians who have been repeatedly warned of problems in a key industry over the past few years, and failed to act.
Pieface
Free MemberOne thing (for me) that this highlights was that a successful Brexit required a major overhaul of our national infrastructure and skills base, after decades of underinvestment.
Yup. But since the only way to win the referendum was to lie and pretend that brexit would be easy and straightforward, that was never going to happen. And then the general election was won with "oven ready brexit" and doubled down on that.
Even if this government had the foresight to see what was needed and the competence to deliver it, they would never lift a finger to do anything about it.
People use cars all the time because they have cars, and then they get cars because they use them all the time. It’s easier than walking, cycling or getting the bus. It’s that simple.
We've also designed infrastructure to benefit the motorist and penalise other users such as cyclists, even if 'all things being equal' your average punter would prefer a car.
I guess what surprised me though is that the prices have gone up a few pence rather than profiteering on desperation / managing supply (I don’t believe the garages are doing this because they are worried about a carer affording the fuel to visit old Elsie or your business’ post covid viability) – I must be missing something.
What you're missing (and I suspect, the only reason it hasn't been done) is that price gouging (ie, whacking the prices up at a time of short supply / high demand) is illegal.
Yep, cars are great which is why they are so popular. Public transport would have to be unbelievably good to even start to compete with personal transport.
Just like bog rolls. No-one shat any more as a consequence of having 3 months worth of bog rolls in the cupboard.
True. But if you have a spare room full of the finest kitten soft arse paper, then you might treat yourself to an extra wipe or two, just to be on the safe side.
If you win power by eroding the public's confidence in authority (elites, experts etc) then you cannot be surprised when they don't trust you in a crisis. See lockdown breakers, antivaxers and panic buyers.
There is a special place in hell for these fraudsters who have done this.
As kelvin noted above, this is the reality of Brexit Britain. The only real question is how much are people willing to put up with before they'll face this reality? Brexit was a terrible idea, is now, and always will be.
The trouble is that 'resilience' comes in many forms - some of which are counterproductive. You'd be daft to let your fuel gauge drop below half now, so there will be behavioural changes as people adopt the approach of topping up rather than running down and refilling.
Debate the smaller individual vs societal conundrums all you like, but there is one salient point:
It doesn't have to be this way.
Should instigate a minimum purchase of £50. See how many drivers really want to pay an effective price of £5-10 for a litre of fuel. Lower values for two wheels of course - who obviously can't be part of the problem.
Just like bog rolls. No-one shat any more as a consequence of having 3 months worth of bog rolls in the cupboard.
No, but there were loads of blokes " working from home" 😉
Just saying like....
Labelling it as entirely ‘panic buying’ is a misunderstanding. Sensible people now understand the pattern, and take steps to make sure they have what they need.
Indeed. What's barmy for a population is sensible for individuals. And the lesson is: if you're going to 'panic' make sure you beat everyone else to it.
There will be more supply issues again in future, but people should be calmer next time,
That's hopeful!
But if you have a spare room full of the finest kitten soft arse paper, then you might treat yourself to an extra wipe or two, just to be on the safe side.
Boris promised me unicorns, blue passports, sunlit uplands, and no risk of poke-through because I'm skimping on bog roll.
I think this is a deliberately cynical interpretation of how people operate.
Fairly straightforward interpretation of how corporations operate. Remember they do so with knowledge of all the psychologic tricks, the market research, the budget to get propaganda to you. Most people operate with only their "common sense" and probably half aware at best, i.e. are basically open goals when it comes to this stuff.
Once you've got everyone hooked on heroin driving, their jobs are serviced by driving, their towns designed for driving, their lives essentially are different because of driving.
I do get that they are useful. So is heroin (well, derivatives thereof, in a medical sense). That doesn't stop either being addictive.
There will be more supply issues again in future, and people will panic exactly as much as this time.
FTFY?
People panic buying, well that has been happening since people.
Last ice age, there was a run on mammoth, lucky for me my ancestors got in first and beat the rush, they got to live.
Indeed. What’s barmy for a population is sensible for individuals. And the lesson is: if you’re going to ‘panic’ make sure you beat everyone else to it.
Even more so when I didn't vote for it.
There should be two queues at the filling stations. Remain and Leave. Leave get a reduced selection of pumps. Remain get a greater selection. Both sides will have got what they voted for. Job jobbed.
The Leave queue get an added bonus, though, they get a scratchcard with a racist joke on it, to keep them amused as they wait. There's ten to collect and if you get all ten you get a VHS of 'Til Death Us Do Part'.
Labelling it as entirely ‘panic buying’ is a misunderstanding. Sensible people now understand the pattern, and take steps to make sure they have what they need.
Exactly. The only true panic buying that's been on show are the folks with jerry cans or empty plastic water bottles, which is a small minority. Topping your car up to a full tank when there is news of potential shortages is just a completely rational reaction.
Although I have to say it's quite an eye-opener that a relatively subtle shift in behaviour can cause such significant issues.
Although I have to say it’s quite an eye-opener that a relatively subtle shift in behaviour can cause such significant issues.
That's JIT supply chains for you. It is optimised for maximum choice and convenience when applied to retail rather than intra-process in manufacturing.
Throw a racist/xenophobic tantrum that ****s part of the process up then the whole thing falls over. The ultimate end point is less choice and convenience or increased prices (or both). But Project Fear and all that...
<pedant>
Fusion powers the time circuits and the flux capacitor. But the internal combustion engine runs on ordinary gasoline, it always has. There's not going to be a gas station around here until sometime in the next century. Without gasoline, we can't get the DeLorean up to 88 miles per hour.
</pedant>
God I love those movies far too much.
How many EU tanker drivers left? Does anyone even know?
Although I have to say it’s quite an eye-opener that a relatively subtle shift in behaviour can cause such significant issues.
I think its speaks to the wider issue of JIT supply lines that have been exposed by the pandemic & brexit
'efficiencies' have been made to the extent that there is basically no slack in our supply chains, see also horrenndous working conditions and pay for many, including truckers
‘efficiencies’ have been made to the extent that there is basically no slack in our supply chains, see also horrenndous working conditions and pay for many, including truckers
Yup. JIT was originally intra-process manufacturing. But it was bastardised into retail supply chains to maximise choice and availability. Brexit will continue to pull cards out of the house of cards each time it is rebuilt. If it ever is. Or we could decide to grow up.
🤷♂️
Public transport would have to be unbelievably good to even start to compete with personal transport.
Or personal transport would need to become prohibitively expensive, restricted in access and inconvenient to park etc.
Stuck on the a413 as queue for petrol station is blocking the road in both directions
Or we could decide to grow up.
How do you expect that to work?
Earlier today a logistics specialist referred to Just in Case; haven't heard that in the context of supply chains for some time.
Coming next...Just too Late.
How do you expect that to work?
Renegotiate a softer Brexit. Apply to rejoin the EU.
Just two of the myriad possibilities that exist for 'not be childish'.
Pretty much anything is better than the shitshow we are currently mired in.
**** that 'will of the people' nonsense. It was tried. It didn't work. Time to sort something that does.
Just in Case
A large part of which is stockpiling. Which doesn't work with perishables, plus warehousing would need to be expanded to house it all.
It's an expensive way out of a self-created hole...
As I asked before, to all these people blaming Brexit, how many EU tanker drivers left exactly?
i_scoff_cake
Free Member
As I asked before, to all these people blaming Brexit, how many EU tanker drivers left exactly?
I seem to remember seeing a figure of 25k being mentioned, I could be wrong on that though.
Edit: That was likely in reference to all HGV drivers, not just tanker drivers.
i_scoff_cake
Free MemberAs I asked before, to all these people blaming Brexit, how many EU tanker drivers left exactly?
The RHA says 20000 drivers total. Driver Require estimates 12-15000. Of course that's not tanker drivers but that's not the point- not all drivers are tanker drivers but all tanker drivers are drivers, so even if not a single one of those 12-20000 was a tanker driver, of course tanker drivers would be among those filling the gaps left.
And of course it's not all about EU drivers leaving. Brexit has put more stress on the entire supply chain, meaning we need more drivers to do the same job. You didn't have to be an EU driver resident in the UK, to be driving in the UK, and that's also reduced.
20,000 hgv drivers according to the industry.
Tanker drivers within that? Don't know but it will probably be significant.
https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19606111.truckers-reveal-reasons-behind-hgv-driver-shortage/
Mefty still denying reality again....
Sheesh!
Of course that’s not tanker drivers but that’s not the point- not all drivers are tanker drivers but all tanker drivers are drivers, so even if not a single one of those 12-20000 was a tanker driver, of course tanker drivers would be among those filling the gaps left.
As you say yourself, not all HGV drivers are tanker drivers so we shouldn't jump to a conclusion based on some inadequate statistics especially with the requirements for driving tankers being significant which doesn't lend itself well to transient and casual EU labour.
Speaking to people in the business myself it looks more likely that the IR35 changes were a bigger impact.
Brexit has been a ‘factor’ in fuel crisis, Shapps admits
Transport secretary Grant Shapps has admitted that Brexit has been a “factor” behind the fuel crisis – despite his previous claims the UK’s exit from the EU had helped the country adjust to supply chain problems.Mr Shapps insisted only last week that cynics were “wrong” to blame Brexit for the drastic shortage of heavy goods vehicle (HGV) drivers causing empty supermarket shelves and the closure of petrol stations.
Anyone who believes a word Johnson and his rabble say really does need their head read.
I can only assume it is some kind of misplaced pride that makes people need to deny what is going on. It is fine. All you have to do is admit your error(s), say you are sorry, mean it, and don't do it again. Not onerous, but then nor is wearing a mask and enough Brexity types got the vapours about that too.
So… I just seen that the government has declared that it is returning to normal.
However I have just nipped out to pick daughter up (some buses were cancelled, leaving others overcrowded) and I thought I would see if I could get some fuel as it was near normal.
Out of five petrol stations I passed. 3 were empty. 1 only had petrol (I need diesel) and 1 had gridlocked half the town as people had seen that there was a tanker their and had decided to park on both sides of the main drag to get in (facepalm)
Yup. Nearly normal (still on fumes)
Speaking to people in the business myself it looks more likely that the IR35 changes were a bigger impact.
Well, that can be adjusted for simply by paying more. So, now we’re paying more, the drivers will magically reappear. What, they won’t? Why not? Because some drivers have retired from a rapidly ageing workforce? Because younger experienced drivers are working elsewhere? What do you mean? Holland, Germany… nah, you’re pulling my leg.
the requirements for driving tankers being significant which doesn’t lend itself well to transient and casual EU labour.
Why do you think that?
The tanker drivers I speak to have all said manning is down since we left and the Euros went home.
Looking good, Britain. Looking good. No wonder the rest of the world are falling over themselves to come and do our dirty jobs for us...
That’s the old normal you’re thinking of, this is the new normal
So… I just seen that the government has declared that it is returning to normal.
It was all the media's doing apparrently, the stirrers. So it follows that a simple declaration in the media that things are all hunky dory will put things right again.
Out of five petrol stations I passed. 3 were empty. 1 only had petrol (I need diesel) and 1 had gridlocked half the town as people had seen that there was a tanker their and had decided to park on both sides of the main drag to get in
Can I ask in what part of Britain this is? I've just been out and filled the tank on my van (as I always do) at the 1st petrol station I came to, no queues at all. A couple of lads from work went out last night and did the same, no queues, all pumps working and no one filling jerry cans, plastic bottles or anything other than their cars. North East England here and, whilst I haven't been driving much over the weekend I haven't seen a queue at a petrol station so far. I haven't read much of this thread but from 3 or 4 stations in the South East running out last week there's been little else on TV and in newspapers for days now, completely blown out of proportion by sensationalist reporting in the media, combined with the social media element (people straight on Facebook when they see a tanker delivering fuel) has caused this problem to be far worse than it needed to be.
Brexit, covid, driver pay and conditions are all part of a problem which definitely needs addressing and if anyone seriously thinks temporary visas for EU drivers will sort this out they need a reality check
Our local supermarket had no queues in evidence beyond the normal 2-3 cars deep you get at 5.30 usually, then the other supermarket we passed also had no visible queue. But yesterday and the day before it was bonkers.
Can I ask in what part of Britain this is? I’ve just been out and filled the tank on my van (as I always do) at the 1st petrol station I came to, no queues at all.
Fine here too. I didn't get any today because I don't need it, but the ones in Galashiels, Selkirk and Peebles are fine. Edinburgh was fine when I was there on Saturday.
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media? Same as how snow is only a problem if they get any
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media?
No fuel in Aviemore, Newtonmore or Carrbridge. Possibly all on its way south in the fuel tanks of weegies who were up here for the weekend.
I think I have finally found a 'brexit bonus'. I manged to do a 110 mile round trip to a clients office today with a starting range of 105 miles, averaged 63 mpg (audi a6 diesel) and didn't touch the brakes round the sections of m25 and m1 I traveled on - unheard of.
But driving at 56 mph and slip streaming the lorries was dull - i can see why no wants to be lorry driver.
tried 4 petrol stations on the way home - 3 no fuel, one with supervisors and massive congestion.
andrewh
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media? Same as how snow is only a problem if they get any
No unfortunately it isn't, something like 2/3s of the stations across the country had run out a day or two ago.
Can I ask in what part of Britain this is?
Buckinghamshire.
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media?
Afraid not.
I’d love it if it was just one of those things like the daily express declaring SNOWMAGEDDON after there’s been a light dusting in Hackney and they report it likes theres 8 foot snowdrifts, as the capital brings to a halt and we all laugh at them.
But unfortunately not. It’s very real here in the north west, where men are men, pies live in fear and women from Burnley gargle unleaded
I’m one of the lucky ones who can work/doss from home and don’t need to be anywhere, but it’s having a serious impact on people who have proper jobs which require having fuel in your car/van and the need to be somewhere else other than sat at home in your pants
So a bloke at work who moon lights as a HGV driver at weekends (only one day though) summed it up this way.
You do you job wrong at a desk you'll probably get told off do it again might get a warning.
I stop for emergency wee and someone get in the back of the truck I get a fine if I'm lucky.
I got to a pick up and the customer has over loaded the trailer I get fined.
Why do a job that's long hours and if something goes wrong beyond my control I get fined when I can get the same money sat at a desk?
He works weekends for some stupid negotiated rate.
Binners is right the North West has been really bad/stupid. Even the posh bits of the Wirral!!
Much of South Wales also according to friends.
Think its improving though as 1 local station put out on FB all tanks full and no wait for fuel at the pumps
Is this just a South East problem being blown out of all proportion by London media?
I passed 2 garages (one in Roade and one by Wendover) where the queues were blocking the road in both directions on the way from Northampton to Amersham. The rest had no fuel. So East Midlands and South East at least. I'm lucky that I started the week with a 3/4 full tank.
Still nutty all around me. I live in Nottingham. Got the tram in to the city centre this morning after praying the car would get to the park and ride on fumes, as we were picking up some heavier items from the city I had to bring the car at least to the tram stop. Tesco petrol station opposite the tram park and ride was closed, as were other Tesco ones in Bulwell and Bestwood. Texaco near me was rammed at 6am this morning as I stupidly wasted precious fumes to check it out. Morrisons in Bulwell also rammed when we went past on the tram on the way in and also on the way home. Asda in Hyson Green also the same (just outside of the city centre). I've been told by child minder that local Tesco had a delivery late afternoon but I can't afford to take the risk until I know I can get some in the tank for definite so will ride down there tomorrow to see if they still have diesel and not rammed.
I passed 3 garages in Bristol today - 2 totally empty of any fuel at all. The other only had ‘supreme diesel’ left. Asda had fuel last night but 10 car deep queues per set of pumps. Hoping there maybe some fuel available on Thursday - even if just a tenner’s worth to do a bit of local running round on!
Covered on Germany's national news this evening including all the fisticuffs.
Brilliant.
So unsurprisingly its probably more to do with population density than anything else.
more likely that the IR35 changes
Yep making a (hard unrewarding) job pay less is more likely to make it non-viable but its death by a few papercuts...Brexits just chucked a bit of petrol on it for a laugh by removing more workers from the pool.
Still when it was a few visas or can IR35 what was the solution ?
What's the current situation, army on standby to shoot petrol heads or old people or visa holders who haven't gone home at Christmas or something.
Sat here with the popcorn waiting to see the next giggle 🙂
it's probably more to do with population density than anything else
Never a truer word spoken 😉
So unsurprisingly its probably more to do with population density than anything else.
In what way?
So unsurprisingly its probably more to do with population density than anything else.
Spot on. 🙂
At Sainsbury’s Garthdee in Aberdeen this evening. Petrol station closed but there’s a tanker restocking. 20 minutes later there are a handful of cars. Within a few more minutes there was a queue blocking the access road. So yeah there’s no problem. The BP in Culter is still closed.
I've tried 12 garages since Sunday, 50% only had petrol, the others nothing. I now wished that I'd panicked last week and filled up when on 50%.
So unsurprisingly its probably more to do with population density than anything else.
Spot on. 🙂
Er....
No fuel in Aviemore, Newtonmore or Carrbridge
Whoosh!
The bloke brandishing a knife whilst kicking in a citroen at a petrol station is on tonight's ITV News....
He looks,erm, a bit of a stereotype but I won't say which one.
Anyway...
I suspect petrol worries won't be high on his agenda for very long!
Can I ask in what part of Britain this is?
No queues in the 5 stations I passed on my way home in Worcestershire....because they were all dry
Blaming the media is just lazy
This crisis has been building for months, about a quarter of the missing drivers have gone back to the EU
Why have they gone back? Because Brexit happened? And who caused that then?
No. The media is totally culpable in this shit show and has been instrumental in our undoing for years, reporting how anything that's a bit shit is all the fault of foreigners because that's what sells newspapers to angry white people.
We just have to get used to the reality of Brexit Britain. It would be easier if people weren’t still being told everything is going to improve, when the reality is that we need to be more resilient consumers
In Case You Missed It,
That SniffPetrol link posted a couple of pages back lampooning a self-created UK fuel crisis, it was dated 2008. Whatever we're doing here, it sure as hell isn't "learning from past experiences."
Where we’re going, we might need woad.
That deserved more recognition.
