This is a FB post from a friend who works in the industry.
Save your copypasta for FB thanks
Personally I blame the government - as soon as they said 'no need to panic-buy' what did they think was going to happen?
Is this the right time to be smug about not owning a car?
Very easy to say when you live in a major city with excellent public transportation
@jamesoz, I'll admit my suggestion isn't honed to the absolute detail. There would have to be some judgement of what essential means. But I'll bet as plans go it's a shit load better than asking people not to buy petrol because there isn't going to be a shortage while watching the "sold out" signs go up. Which has worked so well at keeping key workers cars fueled.
Why must perfect be the enemy of good?
wurst.experience joined on 27 sept and post of same date, attempting to be...provocative, has been rightly called out as a complete bag of bollocks.
What a dick.
Very easy to say when you live in a major city with excellent public transportation
You forgot affordable on top of that.
wurst.experience joined on 27 sept and post of same date, attempting to be…provocative, has been rightly called out as a complete bag of bollocks.
What a dick.
Is it though?
I agree that the MO seems like just another troll and I also have seen that particular stream of text on several facebook posts. But if you unpick the facts, how wide of the mark is it.
Petrol stations are reporting selling a week's worth of fuel in 36 hours. Of needing two deliveries a day to keep pace, instead of 3 a week as normal. We're not collectively driving 5x further than we were last week.
The reduction in lorry drivers due to Brexit etc., has been steadily happening, they didn't all just go home / retire last week. The lack means we can't respond to the shortage, it hasn't caused the shortage.
The run on bog roll was the same, there wasn't a collective outbreak of dysentry, we were shitting the same amount as we always were.
I'm not sure the media caused this as a deliberate tactic, but honestly if they had against the way the Vote Leavers used lies and misinformation in that campaign, and the underhand way this Gov conducts their business, frankly if it helped hasten the end of this clown circus I'll not use the car for a week happily.
But the media has worsened it with reporters stationed at petrol stations providing live updates on the queues and the sold out signs, and add to that the clown****s that we share this island with, and there you have it.
But as said, we live in an age where information is weaponised, we don't listen to experts of the voice of reason, and if the MSM had said 'there's a looming shortage' half the country is up in arms; 'there's no problem, don't panic buy' and the other half is, and if they say nothing the loonies are claiming it's a cover up!
Don’t believe all you read in the media guys. This is a FB post from a friend who works in the industry.
And it's pure bollocks, clearly last week the supply chain didn't have enough capacity. Last week places started running out, then people did the prudent thing when supply is limited they got it when they could. It's not panic buying its a perfectly rational response to something important being in limited supply.
No chance getting fuel at Asda – queuing 10 cars deep at each set of pumps and I’ll be dammed if I’m waiting in that. Will cycle to work on Wednesday and work from home the rest of the week. Guess I won’t go driving anywhere for mtb until it’s calmed down and people have stopped hoarding more fuel than they normally do
A typical STW post, aren't you lucky to be able to decide to work from home when your attempt to buy fuel failed, now just try to put yourself in the place of someone who can't do that as you look down your nose at those stuck in a massive line "panic" buying.
Is this the right time to be smug about not owning a car?
Is this the right time to be smug about not living in the UK?
Is this the right time to be smug about not living in the UK?
Yes, very much yes....
Very easy to say when you live in a major city with excellent public transportation
Exactly, when you live rurally you simply can't get to work without a car. There is one bus per day where I live (yes, one!) and it leaves at 11:00 which is a great time for anyone wanting to get to work isn't it.
I reckon there will be a market in a few years for brexit safaris; get a bus and go and look at the natives all stealing each others tins of beans and snarling and banging on the bus. probably need protection on the windows.
Is this the right time to be smug about not living in the UK?
My brother lives in a nice suburb of Sydney - it's not perfect but it's bloody closer than living here is.
Mine (and MrsRNP) only two regrets in life are not moving to Germany when I was offered (for me) my dream job and not joining my brother when I was young enough to be eligible.
And it’s pure bollocks, clearly last week the supply chain didn’t have enough capacity. Last week places started running out, then people did the prudent thing when supply is limited they got it when they could. It’s not panic buying its a perfectly rational response to something important being in limited supply.
Last week a few stations in the entire country ran out for reasons we don't even know yet. It could have been late deliveries (likely) or there could have been a number of other reasons such is the nature of the Just In Time supply chain. The reaction was neither prudent nor rational given all those folk have now emptied hundreds of forecourts.
A typical STW post, aren’t you lucky to be able to decide to work from home when your attempt to buy fuel failed, now just try to put yourself in the place of someone who can’t do that as you look down your nose at those stuck in a massive line “panic” buying.
Er, I think that may well have been their point. They don't need the fuel so why bother getting more? Seems a prudent and rational thing to do IMO. Also, all those important people you mentioned now can't get fuel because the thick ****s that can't walk the length of themselves and don't go anywhere except the shops were also in the stampede. It was explained very clearly how this works previously.
The wurst.experience post is pretty much identical to several I have seen on FB purporting to be from people 'in the industry' but, even if they are, also have a posting history with lots of pro-Brexit, pro-nationalist stuff. Strange eh?
The bots are real.
And it’s pure bollocks, clearly last week the supply chain didn’t have enough capacity.
Yes and no. The supply chain does have enough capacity otherwise we'd be perpetually in this situation. It doesn't have capacity to deal with a 5x increase in demand almost overnight, which is what garages are reporting. But you can't build a supply chain to deal with that much demand fluctuation, or you'll be massively overcapacity 95+% of the time.
Last week places started running out, then people did the prudent thing when supply is limited they got it when they could. It’s not panic buying its a perfectly rational response to something important being in limited supply.
Again yes and no. It's a rational response in isolation; as long as I've got fuel then I'll be OK. But it's also a selfish response, without consideration for the others that it affects, and in return potentially back on yourself if that ambulance or school teacher can't get the fuel to do their job. Thinking needs big picture as well as me me me, before it's really rational.
Is this the right time to be smug about not owning a car?
Very easy to say when you live in a major city with excellent public transportation
Where we live (which I suspect is the same as all similar places), the public transport system is all but non-existent, so I'm not surprised that all the garages here have no petrol. Theres no real option to using your car if you actually need to be anywhere.
As it is today, if any station within a ten mile radius gets petrol the flag goes up on social media and theres a massive queue outside in minutes
I'm lucky as I can work from home and don't have any caring obligations which mean I have to drive. A lot of people aren't so lucky. Mainly because their jobs are actually important (I'm certainly not deluding myself that mine is)
Unless this sorts itself out sharpish, which with these idiots in charge looks highly unlikely, they're going to have to put a process in place to prioritise essential workers.
Its absolutely unbelievable that this is happening in one of the worlds largest economies in the 21st century.
Also, all those important people you mentioned now can’t get fuel because the thick **** that can’t walk the length of themselves and don’t go anywhere except the shops were also in the stampede.
That's right, all your working from home it consultants on stw can now look down their noses at those worried about getting to work this week.
The supply chain does have enough capacity otherwise we’d be perpetually in this situation
Who is to say we won't be until these 5000 drivers turn up from Europe?
But it’s also a selfish response, without consideration for the others that it affects
That supposes many are just panicking even though they don't need heir car, but the problem is our economy is built around car use, people like me who cycle to work are rare oddities, expecting Janet in accounts to cycle to work this week when she hasn't seen a bike in 30 years insnt realistic, she was right to go out and fill up at the weekend so she can get to work this week. It wasn't panic buying it was prudent. She couldn't go to the LBS to buy a bike anyway as they haven't got any.
When the supply chain fails short of normal demand, people bring forward their purchase, creating greater shortages (and in most markets higher prices). Easy to blame those bringing forward their purchasing, but waving hands around pretending that problems in the supply chain wasn’t the cause, it was being told about the supply chain problems that was the cause, is over simplifying.
I just heard on GBNews that the forecourt fuel panic is
not the fault of the The People™
no, but that it’s being
‘orchestrated and choreographed by behavioural scientists’
+++NEWSFLASH+++DON’T PANIC PEOPLE, IT’S JUST THAT YOU’RE BEING COVERTLY MANIPULATED BY THE EVIL LIBERAL/ELITE/MARXINIST/ECOTERRORISTS WHO ARE TRYING TO FORCE A GREAT COMMUNIST RESET ON YOU, BY GETTING CHINA TO RULE THE WORLD WITH FAKE SCAMDEMICS AND POISONOUS USELESS VACCINES BECAUSE THEY WANT UR CHILDREN TO REJOIN THE EU. DON’T FALL FOR THE PANIC AND DIVISION. THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO DESTROY YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES BY MIND-CONTROL AND ORCHESTRATION OF ALL GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE BODIES++++NEWSFLASH+++ PLEASE LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE+++
/parody
#parodyisdead
As much as I detest this government - and as far as I am agnostic - I hope that there is a special level of hell reserved for tabloid media. Especially for GBNews and the rest of that ‘empire’.
Is this the right time to be smug about not owning a car/ not living in the UK?
I own a car and live in the UK, but haven't got involved in any of the queuing/panicking shite. And I certainly don't feel smug. Just really sad that this country can get in such a state.
My partner is a nurse and has had to sit in queues behind people yelling and screaming at each other, filling up jerry cans and generally being selfish ****s. A sad, sorry state of affairs.
interesting that the other thing in short supply is a Government Minister. Someone needs to "prenez un grip"
from the FT
First came gaps on supermarket shelves, then soaring energy bills. Now petrol stations are running out of fuel; the army is on standby to help out. Less than two weeks ago, Boris Johnson’s cabinet reshuffle was intended to be a relaunch for the post-Covid era. Instead, his team seems increasingly to be buffeted by events but not in control. For the Conservatives, who claim to be the natural party of government, this poses serious risks. A reputation for competence takes years to earn. It can be shattered overnight.
The government can plead in mitigation that other countries are experiencing some of the same problems. Covid-19 and its aftermath are partly to blame. Wholesale gas prices have soared across Europe, due to tight supply as economies restart after the pandemic. Other west European countries are experiencing shortages of goods drivers after many immigrants from eastern Europe chose to ride out Covid with their families at home.
Some decisions that have exacerbated the problems predated Johnson’s government, though were taken by previous Tory administrations. Poorly-handled liberalisation of the energy supply market, combined with imposition of the energy price cap, led to today’s failures of undercapitalised new entrants. The closure of the Rough storage facility left the UK with fewer gas reserves than EU counterparts to cushion against supply issues.
Yet there are reasons specific to the Johnson government why shared difficulties are hitting the UK harder. One is Brexit, and the government’s bare-bones post-Brexit trade deal. This is not, as some continental European media suggest, the sole or main reason for Britain’s troubles. But it is a complicating factor. Leaving the single market introduced border frictions that discourage EU-based drivers from taking jobs that involve coming to Britain. The end of free movement made it harder for Polish or Romanian drivers who had gone home to return post-Covid.
An economic adjustment of this magnitude — let alone during a global health crisis — was always going to demand agile, efficient and pragmatic government. Instead, as for much of the pandemic, the Johnson cabinet has seemed constantly behind the curve. Partly, this results from a structure and staffing that have little capacity for co-ordinated response and anticipation of crises. The cabinet also has a tendency to regard legitimate warnings from business or anyone seen as having been on the “wrong side” of the Brexit debate as attempts to undermine its core political project.
Course changes have often been too little, too late. Issuing just 5,000 visas for EU heavy goods drivers will do little to ease supply chain problems; it is in any case unclear how many will be ready to grapple with the bureaucracy and cost of coming to Britain for a matter of months when there is plenty of work elsewhere in Europe.
Wanting to shift the balance in the labour market towards workers and encouraging employers to invest in skills and pay is a legitimate goal. But doing so will need time. In the interim, the government should do what is needed to protect the economy, including opening borders temporarily to admit those with the requisite skills.
Question marks over competence can become lethal for any government. But the Johnson team has staked its future on delivering a complex agenda including levelling up disadvantaged regions and pursuing a “green” industrial revolution. To stand any chance of success, Britain’s prime minister needs to do what he urged French president Emmanuel Macron in laboured franglais to do last week, and get a grip.
@klunk I think only last night grant shapps was saying the lack of hgv drivers was an industry problem for the industry to sort out - shows the measure of the people who are in power
shows the measure of the people who are in power
You'd struggle to find a ruler short enough to measure the collective intellect of the present cabinet.
Is this the right time to be smug about not living in the UK?
(But bear with me, I need to find somewhere to fill the car up)
Anyone seen or heard from our glorious leader of late?
He's in a fridge somewhere again, isn't he?
That’s right, all your working from home it consultants on stw can now look down their noses at those worried about getting to work this week.
Get over yourself, I'm an essential worker and more essential than most (nuclear emergency), I'm sure a few fuds could lower themselves to walking or using public transport.
Surely this can't continue once everyone's tank is full? There can't be that many people filling water bottles can there?
Unless people are using up that much more petrol driving around looking for it.. but that seems unlikely. Reports of people queueing for 3hrs here yesterday, and from the look of most queues people have their engines running....
Reports of people queuing for 3hrs here yesterday, and from the look of most queues people have their engines running….
Most people don't do irony.
I also wonder how many people are sitting there with 3/4 full tanks "just topping it up". I remember in the previous fuel crisis the driver of a pickup truck was in front of me in the queue to pay, he'd put £3.40 in. Just topping his tank up. It probably cost him that much fuel to come off the roundabout, into the forecourt and then go out and round the roundabout again. Muppet.
Most people don’t do irony.
See also the numerous social media posts along the lines of "I've driven to ten different garages and none of them have got any petrol"
All the ingredients are falling into place for some 70s-style stagflation. At the moment displaced economic activity from covid lockdowns is giving the illusion of economic growth, inflation is heading to 4%, and unemployment has been artificially suppressed via furlough. The current disruption to supply chains could cause a serious dip in economic activity in the run-up to Christmas.
Next year could be interesting.
Boris was supposedly contemplating a snap election in 2022 given how useless the opposition is. Hopefully he's missed the window for that, so, for once in his life, he will actually face the consequences of his lazy incompetence. It may be a bad time to be Chancellor too, so golden boy Rishi is on shaky ground.
The supply chain does have enough capacity otherwise we’d be perpetually in this situation
Who is to say we won’t be until these 5000 drivers turn up from Europe?
Because there isn't a shortage. It's all just now in the tanks of people who won't need to fill up for another month where they previously used to put £10 or £15 in every week. They can't keep buying at 5x the rate they have been, it's self-limiting.
That supposes many are just panicking even though they don’t need heir car, but the problem is our economy is built around car use, people like me who cycle to work are rare oddities, expecting Janet in accounts to cycle to work this week when she hasn’t seen a bike in 30 years insnt realistic, she was right to go out and fill up at the weekend so she can get to work this week. It wasn’t panic buying it was prudent. She couldn’t go to the LBS to buy a bike anyway as they haven’t got any.
£15 would have got her to work and back this week, same as she does every other week. But she put £60 in this week because there's a shortage caused by everyone else putting £60 in too.
Just like bog rolls. No-one shat any more as a consequence of having 3 months worth of bog rolls in the cupboard.
Round my way only one of the stations I've seen ran out of fuel, and this morning they have empty forecourts (not closed though) as everyone has loads of petrol in their cars.
Just had a look on Google Maps and I couldn't find any big red traffic jams near local petrol stations. Hopefully it's settling down.
Or the petrol stations are shut. 🙂
theotherjonv
Full Member
The supply chain does have enough capacity otherwise we’d be perpetually in this situationWho is to say we won’t be until these 5000 drivers turn up from Europe?
Because there isn’t a shortage. It’s all just now in the tanks of people who won’t need to fill up for another month where they previously used to put £10 or £15 in every week. They can’t keep buying at 5x the rate they have been, it’s self-limiting.
HGV driver shortages have been an issue for months if not years. My company had historically always relied on external support for this, but over the last 2 years we've had to build up our own "mini" fleet which isn't cheap, we're in the process of getting someone HGV trained on C2 and C1 to then go and do his ADR. There is no one single cause, there is multiple and the Telegraph/Guardian did do a piece on this, but from our own conversations with individuals and fleet operators this is what we know;
1. Tanker driving is stressful - there are many rules outside of normal HGV operation you have to abide by/be conscious of.
2. A lot of HGV drivers were all self-employed, but since the IR35 rules kicked in, a lot were forced to take permanent employment, or go sod that I’m off to do something different (we had the same issue)
3. A lack of back loads from the EU fleets, meant that there was more lucrative work in non ADR trained jobs - the uptick in pay for ADR quals is not what it once was!
4. Covid meant a lot of people re-assessed time away from family, or killed off a lot of ageing drivers!
5. Ageing drivers - have you looked in the cab - most well into 50's/60's and they are not being replaced at the rate they are retiring.
As has been stated, for the most part issues like this would not arise as the use trends are analysed and feed-back into routings daily and drivers/vehicles assigned. However, you can't turn on a tap for drivers when it all goes wrong - driving hours is a big issue - get stuck in traffic (which happens a lot) and that's a whole vehicle and driver out for shift.
We know that the media got talking to certain companies and organisations to get into print the issue was facing, however i don't believe it was a concerted effort to cause mass hysteria - this unfortunately whilst stoked by media coverage, was simply a knob-head-public going bonkers.
There was good news for dumb, selfish ****s yesterday as reports that a regular tanker delivery was going to be ‘slightly late’ led to fuel buying panic at one local petrol station.
The mindless, stupid mithering began around 1pm at the Exachell garage near Wretching, in Disgust, when a member of staff was overheard noting that a fresh shipment of petrol ‘might be around 15 to 20 minutes later than normal’. The news immediately triggered a petrol buying panic amongst customers.
‘As soon as I heard that the main storage tank was down to only 900 litres I knew I had to act,’ said garage regular Dave Spooool. ‘Although I had already filled my car, and actually I only drive about 70 miles a week, I rushed back to the forecourt and filled the boot, glovebox and door pockets with extra fuel. Mind you, I’m so stupid I once forgot how to use my arms’.
Local cretin Angela Stave was another of those caught in the precautionary buying palaver. ‘When I drove onto the forecourt someone told me what was going on and to be honest it scared me. What if there was a medical emergency and I couldn’t get my kiddies to hospital during that vital 20 minute window when my car only had 7/8ths of a tank full? It doesn’t bear thinking about. That’s why I filled my tank with both petrol and diesel, just to be on the safe side’.
Exachell staff say even those who weren’t intending to buy petrol were drawn into the mass panic, such as area ****wit Irene Mizzz. ‘I had spent the morning frigging myself over the memory of Princess Diana and was on my way to buy a second, uncreased copy of the Daily Express when I noticed a commotion at the petrol station. I immediately realised it was the kind of grunting, thoughtless mass hysteria I enjoy and decided to buy as much petrol as possible. Obviously I don’t actually own a car so I had to go and buy one of those first and by the time I got back the unthinking mob behaviour was over. I was so disappointed I decided to fire bomb the place so I could spend the afternoon moaning about Muslims’.
An Exachell sposkesmans was quick to reassure everyone that the tanker delay was a one off and that people should stop being so Christingly ****ing thick.
Petrol stations are reporting selling a week’s worth of fuel in 36 hours. Of needing two deliveries a day to keep pace, instead of 3 a week as normal. We’re not collectively driving 5x further than we were last week.
The reduction in lorry drivers due to Brexit etc., has been steadily happening, they didn’t all just go home / retire last week. The lack means we can’t respond to the shortage, it hasn’t caused the shortage.
The run on bog roll was the same, there wasn’t a collective outbreak of dysentry, we were shitting the same amount as we always were.
I’m not sure the media caused this as a deliberate tactic, but honestly if they had against the way the Vote Leavers used lies and misinformation in that campaign, and the underhand way this Gov conducts their business, frankly if it helped hasten the end of this clown circus I’ll not use the car for a week happily.
But the media has worsened it with reporters stationed at petrol stations providing live updates on the queues and the sold out signs, and add to that the clown****s that we share this island with, and there you have it.
But as said, we live in an age where information is weaponised, we don’t listen to experts of the voice of reason, and if the MSM had said ‘there’s a looming shortage’ half the country is up in arms; ‘there’s no problem, don’t panic buy’ and the other half is, and if they say nothing the loonies are claiming it’s a cover up!
I'm been wondering if it's all the fault of the media, and I really don't know.
It's true and factual that a few petrol stations ran out of fuel, I don't even remember when, a week ago? Maybe a bit longer? 'the media' reported it as being a symptom of crisis in the haulage industry, something that's been a problem for years, HGV drivers retiring, or leaving the industry because of poor pay and conditions, a hole we've been filling for years with economic migrants from the EU, who've left because of Brexit.
Of course people started to 'panic', but once that ball starts rolling it's no longer just panic, but a real issue, because as we learnt when Covid started, when people started (quite sensibly) stockpiling food and paracetamol in case they found themselves sick at home and unable to leave, or even unable to leave home by law (we had not idea what lockdown was going to look like then), but once the shelves started to look empty, the sensible stockpiling turned to panic and greed and it was all well as good sitting in front of a screen calling panic buyers all the names under the sun, if you didn't join them, you could find yourself a best with very little choice of things to eat within a few days and at worse, experiencing the fever from hell without a couple of paracetamol to take the edge off.
I think the reality is that there is a lack of fuel at the moment, my local station is now closed, the one up the road was closed, has now re-opened and there's a huge queue outside it and the people waiting seems stressed and angry.
Of course, because it's concerning Brexit, it's very tribal and political, like the domestic gas problem and the general supply issues we're seeing from everything from derailleurs to fresh vegetables. The anti-EU group are shouting "THERE IS NO FUEL SHORTAGE" when, obviously there is, at the point of sale anyway, the pro-EU group are shouting "ITS BECAUSE OF BREXIT" when, obviously that was limited to a "handful" of BP stations, a relatively minor issue that span out of control, probably because of Covid / Lockdown anxiety.
I don't think you can blame the media, they reported the initial problem fairly and reasonably, and focuses on the long-term issue in the haulage industry, which is what they're supposed to do, they reported on the panic buying, which is happening, yeah it caused a snowball effect, but are they supposed to ignore it? 'the Public' or people as I prefer saw the panic growing and knew it's infectious, would it have happened if Covid hadn't happened... who knows, probably to a lessor extent, but we're still the nation that strips the shelves of bread and milk as the first sign of sleet, but the fact of the matter is very few people drive for fun these days, we can all argue the merits of cycling, walking and public transport, but people don't do those things enough and a crisis isn't a good time to change. Like lockdown this situation was inevitable once the panic set-in and yeah, the media will report the nutters with water bottles and the old chaps squeezing £3 in to their already nearly full 20 year old Micra, but the vast majority of people are buying more than they usually would to make sure they can get to work, take their kids to school and all that stuff now, and next week, eventually when the majority have enough to feel comfortable, it'll ease and the petrol industry will slowly catch-up, I predict this will be over in a week or less.
If we have to blame someone, I think the blame has to lay with the Government, their ruthless pursuit of the hardest Brexit possible meant we lost a lot of drivers from the EU. They've been told by the haulage industry for years that the lack of road side facilities is making it harder for them to recruit new drivers and their inability to admit any downsides of Brexit has seriously handicapped their ability to calm nerves or offer a long-term solution.
I think the haulage industry also has a part to play in all of this, it's pretty damming to see at when the chips are down and there weren't a lot of cheap drivers from Romania et al, a lot of them could suddenly afford to offer their drivers big pay rises to stay, but haulage is a very competitive industry,
Because those who really need it either wouldn’t be able to pay that or wouldn’t be authorised to spend that.
That's a good test of whether they really need it this week or not! I accept there would be some people who really are desperate to be somewhere else who would find that cost punitive
. The other perfectly plausible alternative though is that those same people would not be able to go at all.
Very few people who have to drive anywhere are that rich. Plenty that want to are though.
It would certainly make you ask yourself - can I wait till prices drop next week? or can I avoid making this journey? or do I need to fill the tank to the brim and both these 5L cans...
And it’s pure bollocks, clearly last week the supply chain didn’t have enough capacity.
the supply chain has the capacity, just not in the right places, but it probably even had enough in the right places for everyone who would normally have bought fuel to buy their normal quantity (possibly from the next garage along because the BP one was closed).
then people did the prudent thing when supply is limited they got it when they could. It’s not panic buying its a perfectly rational response to something important being in limited supply.
buying more than they will use before garages will be restocked, filling jerry cans, etc is panic buying. I'm told 50 miles from here there are petrol stations that have run out or have massive queues. Here every petrol station I drove past seemed to be working just like normal. I did think one had a massive queue but it turned out it was people going to the McD's next door...
That supposes many are just panicking even though they don’t need heir car, but the problem is our economy is built around car use,
interestingly peak pandemic we showed it was perfectly viable for people to survive without so much car use, indeed at that time the refineries had a different issue - nowhere to put all the excess fuel they were making and people weren't using.
people like me who cycle to work are rare oddities, expecting Janet in accounts to cycle to work this week when she hasn’t seen a bike in 30 years insnt realistic,
an awful lot of bike to work scheme bikes sold in this country where people don't own bikes. An awful lot of people who were out riding on the quiet lockdown roads during lockdown.
she was right to go out and fill up at the weekend so she can get to work this week.
did she manage to work from home during lockdown? because most accounts staff did... your analogy might have been better if it had been Jenny the fire fighter...
It wasn’t panic buying it was prudent. She couldn’t go to the LBS to buy a bike anyway as they haven’t got any.
there's plenty of second hand bikes on FB marketplace if someone was really that keen. Very few people with the cash (or credit rating) to buy a bike would really be stuck if they can't get fuel for a week.
@anagallis_arvensis - chip on your shoulder much?
A typical STW post, aren’t you lucky to be able to decide to work from home when your attempt to buy fuel failed, now just try to put yourself in the place of someone who can’t do that as you look down your nose at those stuck in a massive line “panic” buying.
Yes I am lucky in that respect - I’m aware of that. Equally before Covid I was in the office 3 ish days a week and I cycled in both ways to avoid using the car and being traffic.
The other 2 days I had to go and see customers all over the south west of England - I’ve tried to use public transport for some of that but links aren’t great / trains are outrageously expensive.
Since Covid I’ve been on 5 or 6 Zoom calls a day - which whilst it avoids commuting / risking catching Covid isn’t mentally brilliant for people. Sat looking at the same 4 walls every day with people is pretty de-motivating.
I’m aware there are people in a worse place than me before you tell me I shouldn’t feel sorry for myself.
I’m looking forward to getting back in the office a bit more tbh to actually see / work with people.
That’s right, all your working from home it consultants on stw can now look down their noses at those worried about getting to work this week.
* not an IT consultant. Also not looking down my nose at people.
Actually looked on at some of my mates who were still able to go out and work and see people with a bit of envy.
Of course, because it’s concerning Brexit, it’s very tribal and political, ... The anti-EU group are shouting “THERE IS NO FUEL SHORTAGE” when, obviously there is, at the point of sale anyway, the pro-EU group are shouting “ITS BECAUSE OF BREXIT” ...
Whilst I'm sure there are people in those camps shouting those things, I'm not convinced that your correlation is true. Certainly from those I know there is no direct link between peoples' fuel stress and their previous voting habits. As far as I can see there are panic buyers on all sides of the political spectrum and people shaking their heads saying calm TF down and there will be enough for everyone who were definitely not Brexiteers.
I don’t think you can blame the media, they reported the initial problem fairly and reasonably,
they love a story like this. A roving reporter standing next to a queue of cars at a petrol station is the stuff their dreams are made of. Did they report if fairly? possibly - but I'm not sure if say BP's computers system had gone down for 3 days would that have caused panic buying?
and focuses on the long-term issue in the haulage industry, which is what they’re supposed to do,
how big a drama it is / becomes depends on where they put it. They can put it on p12 or middle of the broadcast, but when its front page headlines it sensationalized it and blows it up... it almost certainly isn't the biggest crisis in the country today.
Well I've got to go out there and find fuel as I've got some work lined up for the rest of the week and need to drive 60 miles each day, car only had 100 miles showing on the screen. Hopefully I can get into one of the more expensive places easily otherwise I won't have enough fuel for Thursday so the deliveries I should be doing may not happen. Wish me luck!
1. Tanker driving is stressful – there are many rules outside of normal HGV operation you have to abide by/be conscious of.
2. A lot of HGV drivers were all self-employed, but since the IR35 rules kicked in, a lot were forced to take permanent employment, or go sod that I’m off to do something different (we had the same issue)
3. A lack of back loads from the EU fleets, meant that there was more lucrative work in non ADR trained jobs – the uptick in pay for ADR quals is not what it once was!
4. Covid meant a lot of people re-assessed time away from family, or killed off a lot of ageing drivers!
5. Ageing drivers – have you looked in the cab – most well into 50’s/60’s and they are not being replaced at the rate they are retiring.As has been stated, for the most part issues like this would not arise as the use trends are analysed and feed-back into routings daily and drivers/vehicles assigned. However, you can’t turn on a tap for drivers when it all goes wrong – driving hours is a big issue – get stuck in traffic (which happens a lot) and that’s a whole vehicle and driver out for shift.
The ageing drivers issue is a big one. I've been called a young 'un at most jobs I've been to and I'm 40! Lots don't want to do tanker work either, the uptick in pay isn't worth the extra stress, responsibility and antisocial working hours (tankers run through the night as it's safer and faster). It's only the fact that I can't stand being indoors confined to an office, computer screen or workstation that's keeping me pursuing a decent job on the trucks right now. Lots of companies are still taking the piss with poor pay, long hours and back-breaking work. There will have to be a change in the industry very soon before lots of drivers leave and find work in other industries. Don't forget as they are mainly older and closer to retirement they generally don't have big bills like large mortgages or kids at home so can afford a drop in salary in exchange for a better work/life balance.
One thing (for me) that this highlights was that a successful Brexit required a major overhaul of our national infrastructure and skills base, after decades of underinvestment.
Since Covid I’ve been on 5 or 6 Zoom calls a day – which whilst it avoids commuting / risking catching Covid isn’t mentally brilliant for people. Sat looking at the same 4 walls every day with people is pretty de-motivating.
I’m aware there are people in a worse place than me before you tell me I shouldn’t feel sorry for myself.
I’m looking forward to getting back in the office a bit more tbh to actually see / work with people.
Yep I reached that point in spring and started coming in to the office a couple of days a week. I am now in full time and really enjoying it.
Roads seem quiet today...
...so I was surprised to hear on R4 this morning that pre-panic the average petrol station visit was to buy £28 or thereabouts of petrol, and that people shouldn't fill up. Which squares with the £30 maximum spend I've seen at a few stations. News to me as I only ever fill up - tend to go from empty and on the fill up now light to full, to minimise trips to the petrol station. Why would anyone do otherwise? Ah well, £30 lumps until this is over I guess.
Whilst I’m sure there are people in those camps shouting those things, I’m not convinced that your correlation is true. Certainly from those I know there is no direct link between peoples’ fuel stress and their previous voting habits. As far as I can see there are panic buyers on all sides of the political spectrum and people shaking their heads saying calm TF down and there will be enough for everyone who were definitely not Brexiteers.
I'm talking about our leaders, reporters and social commentators alike.
they love a story like this. A roving reporter standing next to a queue of cars at a petrol station is the stuff their dreams are made of. Did they report if fairly? possibly – but I’m not sure if say BP’s computers system had gone down for 3 days would that have caused panic buying?
how big a drama it is / becomes depends on where they put it. They can put it on p12 or middle of the broadcast, but when its front page headlines it sensationalized it and blows it up… it almost certainly isn’t the biggest crisis in the country today.
This is how the BBC reported it 4 days ago, made it clear is was a small, isolated problem effecting a handful of BP stations and Tesco stores they supply. Emphasised it was a result of a lack of drivers, not supply etc.
Maybe an IT system failure would have caused a national panic, but then, you can't just reboot the haulage industry and recruit thousands of new driver, or allow FOMO for 'unskilled' HGV drivers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58645712
Did the public panic because it was all clearly a load of nonsensical hype drummed up by the media, or did they look at the empty shelves in the supermarket, read the headlines about the shortage of natural gas and Co2 and remembered empty shelves from last year and reasonably decide the world is in turmoil at the moment, and the UK especially so as it deals with Covid and Brexit and realise that whilst plenty of people will moan about others panic buying, they'll be doing it with at least enough fuel in their vehicles to see them past when they think they'll need more.
some say that only part filling reduces the weight in the car and increases efficiency. If you're only using a tenner a week and so topping up every week or two isn't a major inconvenience, maybe it's worth it.
Does it make a big difference, possibly not but every bit helps.
News to me as I only ever fill up – tend to go from empty and on the fill up now light to full, to minimise trips to the petrol station. Why would anyone do otherwise? Ah well, £30 lumps until this is over I guess.
I do the same, but then I have to drive a lot for work, so there's not really any point in buying £20 worth, well unless it's a couple of days to pay day and I'm a bit short.
Petrol / Diesel is a huge expense for lots of people, I think we spend about £350 a month on it at home. Some peoples income is weekly, some people don't drive a lot and lots of people are juggling money, trying to make ends meet and yeah, if your income is monthly there's really not much point buying less then you need for that month, but some people can't bear to spend £80 filling up their car, even if they should.
I have an interview/driving-assessment on Monday for a delivery driver role (food not fuel).
I am conserving fuel this week (no buying let alone panic buying done in the last week+) as I am starting to get concerned I will struggle to get to the site on Monday.
Looking at the public transport options have just underlined why I need a car if I want a job. The nearest regular bus service is about 5 miles away down country lanes with no pavements. It's not a pleasant ride, but more worrying is where I would secure my bike while I am away? It's only a second hand 8 year old On-One, but is my pride and joy. At the other end of the bus journey is a 10+ minute walk and a second bus ride. Total travel time according to google is 1 hour 13 minutes by bus or 28 minutes in the car.
some say that only part filling reduces the weight in the car and increases efficiency.
I mean yeah, but then look at the great lumps that folk drive?
https://twitter.com/DemRulesUK/status/1442568891838914561?s=19
Blaming the media is just lazy
This crisis has been building for months, about a quarter of the missing drivers have gone back to the EU
25,000 extra drivers was probably enough to keep things going
Loss of cabotage thanks to brexit also meanstberes less flexibility in the system, and that's something that's kept EU shelves & forecourts stocked, despite their own shortage of drivers
The Haulage industry could cope in lockdown as empty roads & closed entertainment, offices & hospitality meant things were manageable (even with the 'pingdemic') for logistics industry
As we've opened up the system has reached breaking point
All of this was predictable, anyone who warned about it was just a remoaner etc etc
The problem lies in government, they insisted on a hard brexit, with no real thought for the consequences, there is no plan for what comes after brexit, there never has been, so expect the next few years to be an endless series of poorly managed crises and self-pawns by global Britain
S'ok everyone. Johnson has been on the telly to tell us that we're going to have a Space programme...
I heard that they're mobilising 'dozens' of armed forces tanker drivers to help alleviate the crisis (that they keep saying doesn't exist).
I went past 2 stations today and people were filling up, looked busy but not excessively so.
Hope the LOX tankers can get through
Back to normal here. As you were everyone
Will this crisis make people question their life choices in being wholly and slavishly dependent on fossil fuels and internal combustion for their entire basic mobility needs? maybe, maybe not. The system is designed to keep us all in cars as much as possible because its good for the economy innit. It allows us to completely overlook the issues that excessive road traffic bring like noise, obesity, loss of wildlife habitat, road deaths/injuries and CO2/exhaust emissions that are all detrimental to our quality of life and long term survival as a race. Human beings are a peculiar bunch.
I was surprised to hear on R4 this morning that pre-panic the average petrol station visit was to buy £28 or thereabouts of petrol, and that people shouldn’t fill up. Which squares with the £30 maximum spend I’ve seen at a few stations. News to me as I only ever fill up – tend to go from empty and on the fill up now light to full, to minimise trips to the petrol station. Why would anyone do otherwise?
I do that sometimes. If I'm going to visit family and know I'll do (say) 300 miles this weekend, and I don't have 300 miles worth in the tank, I'll fill up first to save me having to do it over the weekend. If I remember.
Went out at 9.15 this morning to drop my dad's car off for MoT. I pulled out of the close, turned the next corner and hit a traffic jam which stretched all the way to Morrisons petrol station 1 1/2 miles away. Traffic was backed up massively at every junction in the vicinity of Morrisons. Unfortunately I had to go past Morrisons to get to the garage, no other way without adding 12 miles to the journey and even then I would have got caught up, just from a different direction.
Forecasts are that miles driven will increase with a largescale move to EVs. The marginal cost of each mile driven with EVs and current tax arrangements mean you'd be daft to own an EV and not use it for every journey. Without radical change to taxation the current EV boom is leading us to a place with more congestion and road miles.
Anyone believing that a move away from fossil fuels will lead to a society with less congested roads, cleaner air, safer streets and more active travel needs to be campaigning for aggressive taxation of EVs alongside a decrease in ICE use.
I was surprised to hear on R4 this morning that pre-panic the average petrol station visit was to buy £28 or thereabouts of petrol, and that people shouldn’t fill up. Which squares with the £30 maximum spend I’ve seen at a few stations. News to me as I only ever fill up – tend to go from empty and on the fill up now light to full, to minimise trips to the petrol station. Why would anyone do otherwise?
I do that sometimes. If I’m going to visit family and know I’ll do (say) 300 miles this weekend, and I don’t have 300 miles worth in the tank, I’ll fill up first to save me having to do it over the weekend. If I remember.
Until this week I have never filled up without either the light being on, or on the start of a long journey where I know I wont have enough to complete said journey.
Always filled to the brim. As mentioned above - even in my first job after uni, I had an old inefficient car and a long commute, was filling up nearly every week - pointless avoiding paying when you know you will need to pay again before the next payday.
Will this crisis make people question their life choices in being wholly and slavishly dependent on fossil fuels and internal combustion for their entire basic mobility needs?
Most definitely not. Nobody learns anything from these events. They just go back to exactly how they were before.
Here in Europe we could well soon expect a shortage of popcorn if this shitshow continues.
Back from the hunt!
Of the 5 petrol stations within a 1 mile radius of me in Cardiff only 1 has fuel so it has a queue blocking off Newport Road. It's the most expensive one too, the dodgy Texaco*. Tesco, Morrisons, Sainsbury's and Shell are all bone dry and have been since yesterday. The Texaco is limiting everyone to £35 which was fine for me (£40 brims the tank) but there were a few people arguing with the marshall on the forecourt about it. I did notice that I was the only one who turned their engine off while stationary for the 2-3 minutes it takes each car to fill up and leave the pump, even the taxis weren't doing it.
Should be fine for fuel for a week at least now.
* one of the staff got done for skimming cards a few years ago and there has been issues with the prices displayed on the main sign, the pumps and what you get charged not tallying up too. It's usually a ghost town there with just taxis and fuel card people using it.
Well that's me on fumes now. 6 garages visited this morning, no fuel. I was on a site visit and tried every garage on the way home. Those included Shell, BP, and Texaco.
Looks like I wont be going anywhere for the next few days.
Forecasts are that miles driven will increase with a largescale move to EVs. The marginal cost of each mile driven with EVs and current tax arrangements mean you’d be daft to own an EV and not use it for every journey.
Whose forecasts? Sounds like bobbins to me.
or just cars in general... they're a huge source of problems notwithstanding this current crisis (which is hopefully not going to become a regular occurrence, but you never know!)... pollution, time wasted in traffic jams, obesity etc. One of my FB friends must post at least 3 times a week how he's stuck in a massive jam (normally M25) but seems to just accept it as inevitable with no possible solution!Will this crisis make people question their life choices in being wholly and slavishly dependent on fossil fuels and internal combustion for their entire basic mobility needs?
Someone else on the local FB page has very hesitantly mooted the idea of a lift-sharing scheme of some kind... whether that will be seen through or just forgotten about when the current crisis is resolved, who knows.
There were people on the BBC news this morning being interviewed, incandescent with rage, some even in tears... we're (mainly) a very densely population island, it's only going to get worse, why are most people so in thrall to the motor car, and unwilling to do anything about it? Nothing about it is sustainable or healthy (physically or mentally!)
Not as smug as the EU I suspect!
https://twitter.com/LeChouNews/status/1442745016238149632?s=20
Blaming the media is just lazy
All the rest of your points were perfectly valid, but the media isn't interested in telling the true story - what they want is 'OMG there's a crisis' - consume our content.
Forecasts are that miles driven will increase with a largescale move to EVs. The marginal cost of each mile driven with EVs and current tax arrangements mean you’d be daft to own an EV and not use it for every journey.
Whose forecasts? Sounds like bobbins to me.
Well, road use is still steadily increasing every year, so seems reasonable that if EVs make it even cheaper than the alternatives this trend will continue. Although the tax hole from fuel duty will have to be filled somehow in any case, so doubt EVs will remain cheaper per mile in the long term.
Long-term impact of COVID remains to be seen.... possibly more Teams rather than in-person meetings. But countering that people less happy to travel on crowded public transport?
pre-panic the average petrol station visit was to buy £28 or thereabouts of petrol,
I was utterly gobsmacked by this. I didn't think anyone had put less than £40 worth in their car since last century.
Quite sobering to think that loads of people are buying £10 or £15 at a time.
🤔
Will this crisis make people question their life choices in being wholly and slavishly dependent on fossil fuels and internal combustion for their entire basic mobility needs?
I think we all know the answer to that
This place is actually unusual as being cyclists and walkers we're probably not as car dependent as a lot of people.
I know plenty of people who would view walking a quarter of a mile to the shop in the same way as trecking across Nepal. They're the ones sat queueing outside petrol stations. Theres millions of them and they've effectively lost the use of their lower limbs
Amazing how this stuff escalates from a fairly low key observation of industrial adversity into a full scale crisis. As soon as the public senses that they are relying on the common-sense of others the system fails. And absolutely no faith in the Govt to be able to sort it out. No trust, no resilience.
Like the 2000 crisis, the petrol companies are laughing. They've made a weeks money in 36 hours. Better the fuel is stored in cars than their tanks, and the money in their account!
clown****s
I like that, must use it at some point.
Worthless anecdote... I'm a semi-rural location, just drove to the dentist and shops and back. On the way back, I drove straight onto a forecourt, and filled up. As noted earlier in thread, it is not a crisis everywhere.
Quite sobering to think that loads of people are buying £10 or £15 at a time.
My Mum does that. Rarely more than £10 at a time. She doesn't do much long-distance driving though so the planning-ahead aspect doesn't matter to her. She's got a bunch of places within a 40-min drive that she visits fairly routinely and there are so many petrol stations that it's easy to stop and just put £10 in. Also, she's in a hybrid so it does actually go further than it initially sounds.
I'm the opposite, if I'm going to stand at a petrol pump I'm going to use the bloody thing to its full potential and it means I don't have to think about fuel again for a month at least!
Very few people who have to drive anywhere are that rich. Plenty that want to are though.
It would certainly make you ask yourself – can I wait till prices drop next week? or can I avoid making this journey? or do I need to fill the tank to the brim and both these 5L cans
And small companies struggling to recover from Covid? Fuel is one of our biggest expenses.
A tank full might last two or 3 days. There isn't at present a suitable electric alternative for our vehicles.
Forecasts are that miles driven will increase with a largescale move to EVs. The marginal cost of each mile driven with EVs and current tax arrangements mean you’d be daft to own an EV and not use it for every journey.
Makes no sense to me. As far as I can see 90%+ of people make no direct correlation between the stuff they put in the tank and the miles they drive. I can't remember any time since I was a student someone saying "I'm not going to take the car to save £". People commented during lockdown on how much they were saving but seem to have happily jumped back behind the wheel, cost really isn't restricting car use in the vast majority of people so EV's aren't going to change that.
Petrol / Diesel is a huge expense for lots of people, I think we spend about £350 a month on it at home.
And therein is actually the much deeper underlying issue. People are burning £350 a month without really noticing... I'll be we could all reduce that just by being a bit more frugal/sensible (I won't drive to the shop, I'll walk; I won't drive to the shop today and tomorrow, I'll get enough to last me two days; I won't drive to the gym - I'll go for a run; I won't sit at 75, I'll sit at 65; I won't leave the roof bars on all the time; I won't leave my toolbox in the car; I won't "just pop down to me parents with this leftover food"...)
There were people on the BBC news this morning being interviewed, incandescent with rage, some even in tears… we’re (mainly) a very densely population island, it’s only going to get worse, why are most people so in thrall to the motor car, and unwilling to do anything about it? Nothing about it is sustainable or healthy (physically or mentally!)
I can't understand it either. I'm a lifelong petrolhead, love a few hours with the spanners when required, have a weekend fun car and watch motorsport. Yet for the last decade have tried to cycle to work or into town whenever I can as it's better for me, my wallet, the environment and more often than not faster. My daily cycle commute is something I miss dearly and want to get back to as soon as I can! Sitting in a queue in a car is bonkers to me yet hundreds of thousands of us do it every day and never question why.
Forecasts are that miles driven will increase with a largescale move to EVs. The marginal cost of each mile driven with EVs and current tax arrangements mean you’d be daft to own an EV and not use it for every journey.
Whose forecasts? Sounds like bobbins to me.
Of the 5 friends I know who have bought EV's only one doesn't use it more than they did when they had an ICE and that's only because they have an old original Leaf as a city car with a max range of 50 miles. The others all have long range new cars (Tesla, Kia and Hyundai) and use them for every journey, even ones they used to walk before. The one with the Hyundai has had their annual mileage go up quite a bit as they now travel further afield for their walks and other leisure activities due to the cost of fuelling the journey being so insignificant, enough that they have had to increase the mileage limit on their lease. So I can see how the terminally lazy will use their electric cars more than the ICE ones.
Emphasised it was a result of a lack of drivers, not supply etc.
Semantics. Think of Turkeys... if we have thousands of them running around, but don't have enough of the people that form the supply chain to get one to your fridge, you have no Turkey to cook. If there's plenty of petrol/diesel, but we don't have enough of the people that form the supply chain to the forecourt, then you can't fill up.
Sit tight, hold out on refuelling as long as you can, things will be fine soon enough. There will be more supply issues again in future, but people should be calmer next time, when they come as less of a surprise, and people are reassured that they will be temporary. We just have to get used to the reality of Brexit Britain. It would be easier if people weren't still being told everything is going to improve, when the reality is that we need to be more resilient consumers, now that our supply chains are less reliable and we have less flexibility to make adjustments to keep them flowing.
