my guess would be UK and US would be at the top of the **** league. Horrible countries.
Oh come on. If you want to be the good guy, to be better than those you berate, then you need to wind in the prejudice.
There are good people everywhere. The US has many, they just go about their daily lives doing nothing but being nice and cracking on, like good people everywhere. They just don't make the news.
You might be pissed off (I know I am) but there's no need to be a dick.
Devil’s advocate here… what if those 5000 visas are given to drivers with precious recent experience of hauling tankers around the UK and elsewhere? Would that not fast track their time to get on the roads?
Yes, true. Of course for every gammony rant**** there 10 or 20 people maybe who are in various stages of pissed off acceptance without getting puce about it. But the ratio has changed, markedly imho.
And you don't say when diagnosed with lung cancer that it's only my lung, the rest of me is ok so on average I'm ok. You isolate it and cut it out to stop the spread.
And crucially we have access to the energy at home.
We do indeed. The 2 petrol stations here are now out of fuel apparently, it’s 40 mile round trip to the next one with fuel. I might treat my car to a 115Kwh free charge so I can feel extra smug.
Some figures for the causes of driver shortage.
Came across 2 dodgy lads at work today sniffing around my car (and others), carrying a 40l tub and a length of hose. Walked off when they saw me and didn’t reply when I shouted after them, didn’t pursue further as I was on my jack.
Big roll felt left out, so is now making a comeback on the back straight....
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58685889
But it’s still Petrol & Diesel from Bog Roll as they approach the final bend, but the canny punters know that Pasta is a strong finisher and this year's Panic Buy Stakes (steak is a distant memory) is hotting up to be the race of the season....
🇬🇧🍆💦🇬🇧
Oh come on. If you want to be the good guy, to be better than those you berate, then you need to wind in the prejudice.
Hardly prejudice. I have lived here for 53 years and that is what my thoughts are about the UK. Of course there are good people but overall the country has a pretty horrible tone to it which has got worse in my experience.
You clearly don't think it has, that is fine you have a different experience than me.
I’ve just been assured by my MIL that everything is going to be fine. She’s just driven back from a 400 mile trip (currently with 3/4 tank remaining) to see a friend in the SW, and tells me this whole episode has been caused by the media making a song and dance about fuel shortages that led everyone to fill up as a precaution. It’ll all
blow over shortly once people calm down. Meanwhile, the Gov are not to blame.
Caveat: she loves Bojo and has been known to say complementary things about Trump.
Make of that what you will peeps.
Now is the time to have a coherent strategy on electric scooters.
Class them as push bikes and we can get cars off the road. Don't know how much leccy they use but it's got to be less than a Tesla.
I'll get one once they are legal.
and tells me this whole episode has been caused by the media making a song and dance about fuel shortages that led everyone to fill up as a precaution.
That bit she's right with, the rest a little less so.
I might treat my car to a 115Kwh free charge so I can feel extra smug.
I shall achieve an equivalent smugness quotient by leaving the car on the drive all week and commute by bike. Just 200km for the 5 days and CO2/methane emissions high due to the recent switch to a mainly veggie diet.
I've got a Brexity acquaintance on the hook on Facebook at the minute.
I'm hoping he's going to try the 'there are shortages in Europe too' Brexy myth.
To which I shall just reply "I guess their populace is just more intelligent than ours, then". I'll let you know how I get on.
Molgripos - we can see how nice / civilised a country is by how it treats the old, the infirm and the poor. On that scale the UK ranks very poorly indeed.
The UK is a very unequal country by most standards
Devil’s advocate here… what if those 5000 visas are given to drivers with precious recent experience of hauling tankers around the UK and elsewhere? Would that not fast track their time to get on the roads?
That's far too logical for Boris.
Just drove back from an last minute camping trip to Cornwall and 5/6 petrol stations I passed were open with no significant queues…
Open stations might just mean unleaded only, every station round here is shut or pretty much empty with only unleaded left, no diesel to be found.
Nah. They were fine, I topped up at every one…
The 2 here have reopened and have both diesel and petrol, no queue either.
I see Priti Patel has started the charm offensive to woo EU lorry drivers in that unique style of hers
https://twitter.com/michaellamberta/status/1441913174798704641?s=21
Just came back from my return trip to Cannock. Pleasingly I’ve used eco mode and averaged 64.1 mpg.
Anyway, on the way the local petrol stations were closed and roads clear. On the way back an hour ago they’ve obviously been refilled overnight / today and the idiots are queuing again. At the local BP there’s furious horns and shouting going on…
It is a special privilege for lorry drivers to be able come here and work
The lure of the sunlit uplands will be far too strong. Why spend Christmas Eve at home when you could be parked up outside a meatpacking plant in Solihull shitting in a bucket?
Saw one petrol station open on the way to York today. It had a queue so long that it threw Google Maps into meltdown.
Now, I know that Priti Patel thing is a wind-up. It has to be, but....
Given where this country currently is in terms of the looking glass, I actually feel I cannot be 100% sure.
Please tell me it isn't real.
Just drove back from an last minute camping trip to Cornwall and 5/6 petrol stations I passed were open with no significant queues…
Yeah, they'm usually a bit behind on current affairs down there
Official "return to office" tomorrow - 55 miles each way, excellent timing doing this when there's a fuel shortage
If there wasn't a supply shortage there is now after a weekend of panic buying
an estimated 50-85% of UK petrol stations (outside of the motorway network) have run out of fuel
Sitting outside a petrol station with a pint. Crazy times
an estimated 50-85% of UK petrol stations (outside of the motorway network) have run out of fuel
Nothing says "figures plucked out of my arse" quite like "an estimated 50-85%" plus an additional caveat.
I managed to fill my car with petrol today. Trouble is it has made it difficult to get back in.
Official “return to office” tomorrow – 55 miles each way, excellent timing doing this when there’s a fuel shortage
I've got a biking trip to N Wales next weekend and a full tank (I filled up on Thursday before this bollocks kicked off). If anyone tries to get me into the office they're going to get more ruses for absenteeism than Ferris Bueller's Day Off. 🙂
an estimated 50-85% of UK petrol stations (outside of the motorway network) have run out of fuel
> https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1442177765944356864
Signs on the M5 just now said fuel for HGV's only.
Official “return to office” tomorrow – 55 miles each way, excellent timing doing this when there’s a fuel shortage
I'm no eco warrior but again that sort of says all you need to know about why we're slowly warming up...
Tinpot local radio traffic broadcasting was a list of empty garages on the major trunk roads and motorway services
Pease pottage m23, clacket lane m25, cobham m25 all out of eithet derv or petrol or both.
Hypermilling the v70 encouraged the range o meter to click over 1000miles.
Wont get that mind, but its a challenge to keep the distance covered and the range up around there, always falls off a cliff around 600 covered though.
I've no idea what you just said. Poetry?
My £400 post apocalyptic diesel Golf still has half a tank left even after a 5hour drive yesterday. Hopefully it will run okay on crushed cockroach juice.
Johnson and the wazzocks will just throw a load more of our money at them to kick the can for a bit longer.
Just drove 280 miles from Aberdeenshire to take daughter back to university. No idea how many petrol stations I passed but they were all open and no queues. The one I filled up at did have a £45 limit and wasn’t allowing anyone to fill cans, which seemed sensible, but that was it as far as I could tell.
I managed to fill my car with petrol today. Trouble is it has made it difficult to get back in.
Well. I liked it, even if nobody else could be arsed to say thanks.
Thanks 🙂
That BBC graphic showing retirement as the number one reason for driver shortages is categorically ridiculous. Brexit is the clear winner. Retirement is only an issue if you have Brexit. No Brexit - retirement is not an issue. So either way it’s Brexit folks. Now can everyone who voted for Brexit please go round to Murdochs house and ask for his autograph. That should keep the lying wrinkled piece of dogs excrement busy for a while.
the driver shortage in the Eu is ameliorated by the abilty to share resources and move them around easily and freely.
brexit means the UK is a closed system.
the winter of dscontent was a brief period of industrial instability. brexit is a systemic faliure with no endpoint.
the driver shortage in the Eu is ameliorated by the abilty to share resources and move them around easily and freely.
brexit means the UK is a closed system.
the winter of dscontent was a brief period of industrial instability. brexit is a systemic faliure with no endpoint.
Yep, we basically opted out of a lovely big pool of Labour (trained to equivalent standards) with no alternatives in place...
I vaguely remember something about "Project Fear", anyone else?
Well welcome to project schadenfreude, hope you Gammons enjoy your blue passports, increased cost of living and food shortages... You were warned.
It's not brexit that's caused this. It's coronavirus.
According to Ian Duncan Smith.
It’s not brexit that’s caused this. It’s coronavirus.
According to Ian Duncan Smith.
Get used to hearing that - it's going to be applied to absolutely every Brexit-related issue in the next 5 years
^^ Absolutely right there.
It'll be interesting when the EU are recovering faster and better than us though. I wonder how long the illusion of Brexit can last?
I think Brexits strongest "ally" isn't Covid but outs believers inability to admit they were duped, even to themselves.
I'm not immune from that facet of human nature but I suspect it's not relevant to my views on Brexit. Time will tell.
Sitting outside a petrol station with a pint.
You won't get far on that. Is that all that was left in the pumps?
It’s not brexit that’s caused this. It’s coronavirus.
According to Ian Duncan Smith.
Brovid?
Just watching the highlights of the world champs on GCN. The comparison between what's happening there in Belgium, and video of queues of car drivers here in the UK, occasionally getting into fights, is deeply depressing.
Brexit really is a shitstorm. And the Tories, well I'm finding it hard to disagree with Angela Rayner.
It’s not brexit that’s caused this. It’s coronavirus.
According to Ian Duncan Smith.
If we can agree that’s a bit of both (and leave the arguments to how much of each it is) then he was one of those politicians adamant that we should cope with the most challenging periods of both at the same time, rather than accept the friendly offer of an extension to the transition period from the EU while we all dealt with the pandemic.
Lemme ged this roight: According to Grant Shapps, this be all the fault of "a road haulage association" and a leaked briefing? Linky.
So, to cause significant tactical (if not strategical) shock to the UK, all "an unfriendly agent" would need is a naughty press secretary with a turn of phrase and a penchant for hyperbole. Not stand-off launched cruise missiles or an army of cyber hackers or anything?
Awesome. We're arse ace!
Well welcome to project schadenfreude, hope you Gammons enjoy your blue passports, increased cost of living and food shortages… You were warned.
They were warned but it is worth it for all the benefits they are now seeing. Everyone does seem to be keeping those benefits very quiet though don't they...
The Brexies are scouting around for anything they can pin this on other than the glorious brexit.
I was corresponding with a hgv driver yesterday evening. He was arguing that lockdown meant that European drivers 'saw the light' about pay and conditions in the EU when we locked down.
Seeing as he was getting very angry and lockdown was used as an excuse to make him redundant, I chose not to put the boot in and point out that:
Those drivers very likely knew about terms and conditions in the EU as some if not most of their journeys would take in the EU.
He nearly left the industry, but now is back - presumably commanding (fleetingly) better wages.
But this is down to Brexit. No shortages in the EU. No petrol rationing in the EU. No round the block queuing in the EU. What is the one salient reason/difference?
Oh well, I guess it needs to get at least a couple of notches worse... 🤷♂️
no shortage of cars on the road this morning so people can't be that worried...
Oh well, I guess it needs to get at least a couple of notches worse… 🤷♂️
Wait until Christmas is cancelled amid a mix of another serious Covid wave, food and fuel rationing and some blackouts due to gas and electricity shortages.
Not so much sunlit uplands as unlit uplands...
no shortage of cars on the road this morning so people can’t be that worried…
No shortage of drivers booting it at 85+mph on the A1(M) last night, clearly not bothered about fuel efficiency.
Drove Yorkshire to Berkshire return over the weekend and most people seemed pretty measured on the motorway but maybe that’s just average speed cameras although definitely less racing from the roundabouts on the A43. 44mpg in my gas guzzling T5 (see other thread) on a permanent 65mph cruise control and steady driving on A and B roads.
Yes, Brexit has removed the pool of trained but lower-paid HGV drivers, and thus exposing the state of an industry that has been on the decline for many years. I also don't see it as a given that it's a better idea to continue propping up bad decisions with cheap imported labour.
As for your HGV driver correspondant - yes, EU drivers are probably very aware of the conditions on the continent, and (for example) that they don't include parking up on a disused airfield for several days before you can finish the job.
Polish HGV driver on Radio Scotland this morning was trying to control his laugh at the possibility of luring drivers from the EU to leave full time jobs to come here on a temporary visa.
Utter horseshit.
project schadenfreude
Schadenfreude is no longer applicable in the UK because sovringty. 🙂
Unfortunately, schadenfreude isn't so satisfying if loads of blameless people are suffering the consequences alongside those who are actually responsible.
I also don’t see it as a given that it’s a better idea to continue propping up bad decisions with cheap imported labour.
Absolutely, but doing precisely f-all to support industry to change while simultaneously telling them everything would be fine, 'easiest trade deal in history' blah blah is just the measure of this government of incompetents and political hacks. The Tory circus has spent its entire energy for five years demonstrating loyalty to Brexit rather than making any effort to do their day jobs. There is so much dissonance between prudent management of the economy, food supply and the labour market, and the central concepts of Brexit that our 'leaders' have simply ignored the gathering storm in favour of populist acclaim. It's a cult, not a government, the boring business of actually running the country is inconvenient to them, and any attempt to tackle these structural problems would throw back a single answer, that we are ****ed, and they are the ones that have ****ed us.
Polish HGV driver on Radio Scotland this morning was trying to control his laugh at the possibility of luring drivers from the EU to leave full time jobs to come here on a temporary visa.
A direct quote from an interview with a Polish lorry driver on Radio 4 this morning:
“we will not go back to England to help them get out of the shit they created themselves”.
Is there a comparable industry where the machinery is so expensive, and the level of responsibility so high, compared to the operative's pay and conditions? Coach driver?
A direct quote from an interview with a Polish lorry driver on Radio 4 this morning:
“we will not go back to England to help them get out of the shit they created themselves”.
never let the facts get in the way of a good meme.
there was a russian lorry driver on earlier who wanted more details, and then a dutch lorry union representative who charmed the R4 audience with that quote.
A direct quote from an interview with a Polish lorry driver on Radio 4 this morning:
“we will not go back to England to help them get out of the shit they created themselves”.
Although you may no doubt twist his arm if you paid him 10 times what he is paid currently.
A direct quote from an interview with a Polish lorry driver on Radio 4 this morning:
But there was a Russian driver (currently employed to tramp between Germany France and Netherlands), saying he was very keen to come over for 3 months to earn quite a bit more than he was getting now. I don't think there'll be a shortage of drivers willing to come over, I just don't think it's enough drivers, or enough time to deal with the issues we're facing.
Ending free movement is a cornerstone "Brexit benefit" for both parties. Once again, I think most folk are more pragmatic than most politicians, but this is unlikely to made a difference
Is there a comparable industry where the machinery is so expensive, and the level of responsibility so high, compared to the operative’s pay and conditions? Coach driver?
what does a budget airline pilot make? after paying nearly 6 figures for their training?
Paramedic? Fire service? I remember after 9/11 US internal pilots pay structure was exposed, it was incredibly low.
Well welcome to project schadenfreude,
I'm liking project schadenfreude, and will be using it. A lot.
****s sake Fatima, not Cyber...
My sister said there was a queue of 30-40 cars along her road yesterday all waiting to get into a petrol station, The petrol station was coned off as all pumps were empty. But they still queued.
Apparently supermarkets near me are now fully stocked again. Good job people stocked up!
I was quite fortunate - we went out on Saturday night for a meal with friends and every station on the way was out of fuel. On the way back later in the evening one of them had taken a delivery and clearly word hadn't got out so we drove straight in and filled up. As we were leaving suddenly loads of cars started appearing from all over and a queue was starting to form - I assume someone had put a message out on social media. It was bonkers.
But they still queued.
Ha! They're not going to be put off by liberal metropolitan elite experts who are lying that the tanks are empty.
It is all a conspiracy driven by the nasty EU and their propaganda operation - the BBC.
But our plucky patriots are too wily for that.
I can only assume the petrol stations did a roaring trade in lukewarm mystery meat pasties to sustain them.
🇬🇧🍆💦🇬🇧
But there was a Russian driver (currently employed to tramp between Germany France and Netherlands), saying he was very keen to come over for 3 months to earn quite a bit more than he was getting now.
not entirely, he was interested by the salary but said he would need to understand the cost of living over here for 3 months as well.
The Dutch transport union guy expressed his views quite well. Even the R4 audience I think understood the point.
I pulled into a petrol station (to use the shop - not for fuel!!) on Saturday that clearly had cones in front of each pump to show that they're out of use. The number of drivers who drove in - moved the cones and tried to fill up was astonishing.
was is driver shortages, was that brexit, covid, years of undervaluing the service, maybe all those wealthy HGV drivers decided to take early retirement, was it a mess created deliberately by a remainer to try to highlight brexit, was it an actual shortage or was it panic buying muppets, was it designed to push eVehicle sales....... or was it carefully crafted way to start to drop competition rules and boost profits in a fossil fuel sector
please tick all that apply
The number of drivers who drove in – moved the cones and tried to fill up was astonishing.
This is what happens when a brand of politics gains ascendancy by dismissing experts as elites and moderates as traitors. Very clever when it gets you where you want to be. Not so clever when you have real crises to deal with and need people to trust you. See also antivax.
The people moving the cones probably thought the fuel was being hoarded - perhaps to put up the price or was being reserved for so-and-so and his Bentley.
🤷♂️
Well, on the bright side this has been the push I needed to (finally) buy an e-bike conversion kit, let's just hope the postie has enough fuel to deliver it... #irony
Is there a comparable industry where the machinery is so expensive, and the level of responsibility so high, compared to the operative’s pay and conditions?
Many I think.
In my outdoor instructor days I often thought of pay vs the responsibility of dangling children off a cliff on a rope...
Machinery wise, I think there will be many industries that have hugely expensive production lines or kit they work with (e.g. loading luggage on plane).
I would argue many of our emergency services too.
Any idea what the situation is like on motorway service stations? I have to drive up to Scotland later this week
