Our deliveries have all been made as normal. Shell even let us increase the frequency. Only problem is as soon as a tanker arrives so does the queues.
I don’t think there has been a shortage. Our stations are all reasonable sized, on major roads, no idea if we have been lucky, prioritised or whether Shell is operating normally for all deliveries. But in terms of fuel deliveries, they’ve all been fine.
A normal delivery would last us 4 days. Gone within about 18 hours. (We do have to leave a certain amount in the tanks, but as a general principle, deliveries all seem ok)
is @binners aware?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/greggs-costs-shortages-sales-prices
Some people on here will castigate you for getting in your car at all to go to work
It wasn't to get to work
Only problem is as soon as a tanker arrives so does the queues.
Can you not borrow a couple of concrete tankers to lead the queues away?
It wasn’t to get to work
STONE HIM!
😆
I thought that Falling Down poster would be improved with a jerry can
Very nice. We need the distraction of a good photoshop thread.
I had a go 🙂
The local Tesco and other stations are all out of fuel again (Amersham). I've got less than 100 miles of range remaining so won't be going to work unless I can find some tonight/tomorrow morning.
Seems to be pretty near normal up here in West Yorks now.
Belay that - my wife spotted an Esso with diesel so I can go to work now. 1 out of 7 garages with fuel - must be all over now 🙂
Are we still blaming the public? Did it work? Can we take the same approach to all other shortages this winter?
Are we still blaming the public? Did it work? Can we take the same approach to all other shortages this winter?
Yes they will blame us for hoarding gas even when it is pointed out to them that storage for hoarding it could be an issue for most. They will just double down on their lies.
Interesting article blaming the just in time supply chain rather than motorists (mainly)
From the sky article linked;
The relatively small increase (just over 5 litres) in the average person's demand, coupled with a near tripling in the number of customers in a very short time led to shortages across the system.
Yep, so an increase in the average fill of five litres coupled with the number of people taking the average fill tripling definitely supports a conclusion that the supply chain is to blame…
Secondly, this whole flaming of JIT supply fails to put in proportion what it would cost to store the quantity of fuel that would support this kind of demand. I really should do the math. I can’t be arsed so I’ll just accept I’ll lose the argument.
I see the Torygraph are trying to say it was the switch to E10 as the stations were running their tanks down, (bollocks it was why would the stations not just fill up as normal and after a few deliveries it would be all E10 in the stations tank). And how would that have diesel shortages.
falkirk-mark
Full MemberI see the Torygraph are trying to say it was the switch to E10 as the stations were running their tanks down, (bollocks it was why would the stations not just fill up as normal and after a few deliveries it would be all E10 in the stations tank). And how would that have diesel shortages.
They've more or less taken this direct from stupid facebook conspiracy theories.
Are we still blaming the public? Did it work? Can we take the same approach to all other shortages this winter?
As long as they're entirely localised to certain areas of the country I'm good with that. Unless that's just another stick we can beat Scotland and "the North" with.
It's got sod all to do with E10.
Its media led panic buying imho.
My daughter and I are going to the midlands tomorrow for a University open day. I've enough to get there, but not back. A quick drive last night and not a drop of diesel available in the garages near home; do i drive round today to fill up or am I 'guaranteed' to get some in the Warwick / Coventry area?
(I really don't feel like dropping my trousers and getting filled up on the M40, but suppose that's an option too)
Every station I rode past in Bristol on Wednesday (5 of them) had all fuels available and no queues.
Motorway services will have fuel.
I think it's just localised issues now. Unleaded and diesel near me in Reading, no Queues. (No super)
Garages I saw in Chichester seemed to have fuel.
I just filled up in Bedford with diesel, no Queue. 650 mile range should see me into next week. I've not seen any signs on the M25 suggesting no fuel.
London Tuesday, big queues and taped off pumps. It may have improved by now
Its media led panic buying imho.
Yes, that is what caused it and if any product is suddenly purchased in much higher demand than historically purchased the product will run out and the supply chain will not cope.
It has highlighted other issues but they were not the cause of it.
London Tuesday, big queues and taped off pumps. It may have improved by now
Not a bad as it was but still queues and forecourts with no fuel in sw London judging by my meanderings over the last few days.
The relatively small increase (just over 5 litres) in the average person’s demand
Is that a common thing? Like, people go to a forecourt and don't fill the tank?
I appreciate that some folk can't afford a full tank in one hit, and there's the rather tenuous argument of a nominal fuel economy gain from carrying less weight (likely wiped out by driving to the station three times as often), but I wouldn't have thought it was widespread enough to cause a problem?
Unless it's dickwads with jerry cans I suppose.
It does seem odd. If I see a garage which is cheaper than the others when I need some I fill the tank, the only time I would ever not do so is a really expensive motorway splash and dash.
.
I must confess to having filled a 20L Jerry can this week though, but in my defence I'm off to a funeral just over 300 miles away and can now guarantee doing the return trip without needing to get any more, it's fine here but no idea what it's like there.
I appreciate that some folk can’t afford a full tank in one hit,
I don't fill mine every visit as the car is on the drive for long periods of time. If the fuel goes off I want enough space to top it up with some fresh to ensure it will start ok.
How long does it have to stand before it goes funny?
I've used my emergency can after maybe two years in the boot and it was fine (diesel), father has a 'summer only'car that will stand with half a tank in for seven or eight months a year (petrol) and neither have been a problem.
I do try to rotate my can every few months though, pop it in the van and refill it instead of just brimming the van, I just don't always remember to do it
There's garages with zero fuel in London still
Is that a common thing? Like, people go to a forecourt and don’t fill the tank?
Of course. I'm sure there are lots of people driving short distances to work but £60 represents a big chunk out of weekly income. Some people like to spread expenses out over time.
How long does it have to stand before it goes funny?
3 to 6 months is the official line from the AA and the like but you'll only start to see a marginal drop in performance that most people won't notice. I've used fuel much older than that without issues.
Is that a common thing? Like, people go to a forecourt and don’t fill the tank?
For me, yep half a tank will do my typical driving for maybe 9 to 14 days and I normally drive past at least 4 stations in a typical day so there's not much cause for anxiety really, the monthly spend is of course pretty much the same but, but brimming the tank would just means I end up lugging around three+ weeks worth of fuel at a time, which is fine I suppose but arguably less efficient...
Do most people normally just fill the tank even if they have no long journeys planned?
I gwnerally fill the tank then worry if I've done the right thing or not
How long does it have to stand before it goes funny
When it does eventually go off you will no all about it - the smell is horrendous
Do most people normally just fill the tank even if they have no long journeys planned?
Yes, because it costs less not to buy it locally.
I just fill it when it gets low. Dislike petrol station experience generally - bit of a waste of time isn't it? - so rather not go there every other day to put 10 quid in like it seems loads of people seem to?!
I now always fill to the brim. But I remember when I couldn’t afford to do so, and used to only put a tenner a time in to help with day to day, week to week budgeting.
Stopped for a pee at Blyth services last night. Diesel 165.9p!!! WTAF? The shell garage a couple of miles later 147, the BP just after that 134 and Asda in Grantham 134.
All of them had both fuels and no queue (but it was midnight-1am)
Anyway, 165?!?!?
Does seem a bit like profiteering. No problems with central stock levels so prices should not be affected and the stations are selling all they get so putting prices up it just opportunism isn't it.
Oil prices have just hit their highest point since 2014. Prices will be up everywhere by the end of next week.
165p for Motorway services diesel is entirely possible. 155p is already pretty normal on the motorways.
Do most people normally just fill the tank even if they have no long journeys planned?
Usually.
I've done the whole "light on, need to fill up urgently" stuff, drives across relatively remote areas on lowish fuel levels and it's just stressful. Far easier to just fill it when you stop.
I narrowly avoided the whole shortage thing, I needed to do a 400-mile round trip on the weekend that it all kicked off and the tank was near red due to me not bothering to fill it when I got back from a previous long drive. Managed to get fuel late on the Thursday night before the panic stuff really started properly but a lesson to fill up as and when I can!
I just can’t be bothered going to the petrol station so generally I only do it when on fumes and I always brim it! Means I can calculate the MPg properly and let’s face it, life’s too short to be putting £20 a time in. Especially as one of my cars that would only take me about 65 miles. 😂
Do most people normally just fill the tank even if they have no long journeys planned?
Well, yes. Why wouldn't you? Going to a petrol station is hardly an exciting task and I've go more interesting things to do.
I always brim it. Lasts me about 6 weeks, but it's all going to get used so I see no point in making extra trips.
Where as I put £20 in at a time.
Though that's because I don't like lugging an extra 20kg of fuel about when driving home on electric power only.
When the price is reasonably stable £20 can last 2 weeks though.
Work van I brim as it'll be empty in a few days.
My own car, why would I want to carry about 80kg of fuel unless I'm going on a long journey? It doesn't do big miles so 20-30l is fine.
But does the money saved from carrying less fuel weight equal more than the cost of going to the petrol station more frequently?
I just fill it when it gets low. Dislike petrol station experience generally – bit of a waste of time isn’t it? – so rather not go there every other day to put 10 quid in like it seems loads of people seem to?!
Well it's not really a waste of time, it has a purpose but get an EV and that pointless task is all done while you're in the comfort of your own home watching some fruity p0rn.
But does the money saved from carrying less fuel weight equal more than the cost of going to the petrol station more frequently?
You make going to the petrol station sound like an excursion. IDK about you but even doing meagre miles that makes it possible to put in £25 every 2 weeks, and not lug the extra weight around, I regularly pass petrol stations where i can refill. The extra cost of going to the petrol station is measured in feet and inches on my journey. Current times excepted of course. OK, and Ginsters, because while you're in there you might as well.
I've seen references that suggest saving 60kg of weight can save 2% on economy. If I spend around £1000 a year on fuel that's £20. That might be insignificant but if the same is true of pollutants, etc., and we all did it.......
When I was commuting to work I filled the car up once a week on my way home on a Friday whatever the fuel level. It takes five minutes, the station was just off my route and isn’t exactly hard work. Now I always fill up after a longer journey near home, always just off the route so no extra miles. To my mind, knowing I have enough fuel for a return journey almost anywhere I usually travel is worth it. If it cost me £20 a year for the convenience, so be it. The difference between half empty and full on my car is 25l, so roughly 20kg rather than 60kg, and I bet that my regular check of tyre pressures makes more difference to economy than carrying the ‘extra’ weight.
My own car, why would I want to carry about 80kg of fuel unless I’m going on a long journey?
I'm not sure what you drive, but my somewhat uneconomical, big petrol engined large family estate only has the capacity to carry 46kg of fuel.
I’ve seen references that suggest saving 60kg of weight can save 2% on economy.
Again, very few cars, if any, will have the capacity to save 60kg in weight even when running on the red line. Realistically we're talking the difference of a full tank and a half full tank in most cases. Which might be around 20kg in a large car. And your stats would only apply if you topped up every few hundred yards... If you brim the tank, 50% of the time you're still going to be running the same amount of fuel than somebody who half fills it. By which time you're saving about £3 over the course of the year. Which I'd argue could be offset just from the acceleration out of the petrol station, even if you didn't go out of your way to get there.
@butcher Older large/medium luxury barges have 60 litre and bigger fuel tanks. Not everyone is pootling around in the latest rental car.
I’m not sure what you drive, but my somewhat uneconomical, big petrol engined large family estate only has the capacity to carry 46kg of fuel
A 944 turbo, not an especially big car, official combined mpg of 28 iirc. 534 mile range. I don't need to drive 534 miles in one go and I pass a shell garage to get to the motorway. (Although the official figures are somewhat meaningless after 35 years and a non standard engine.)
Conversely I had a Toyota hi ace work van for a bit and that had a tiny tank and returned similar mpg, so was visiting petrol stations a lot
The current work van is a 1.5 TD transit connect, no idea on the official figures but i think a 50litre tank and I see 650 miles on the computer when it's brimmed.
Older large/medium luxury barges have 60 litre and bigger fuel tanks
1 litre of petrol is 740g
1 litre of diesel is 840g.
So assuming a 60L tank which is reasonably standard in bigger cars, that's 44.4kg if it's petrol and 50.4kg if it's diesel.
As @butcher correctly says, you're not going to be saving 60[b] kg[/b]. Weight difference between full and half full will be 25kg at most.
Older large/medium luxury barges have 60 litre and bigger fuel tanks. Not everyone is pootling around in the latest rental car.
No rental cars here. Mine is older than most. 46kg is based on 63l tank. Currently costs close to £80 to fill.
Obviously I had the weight of fuel wrong. Still not going to brim it unless I have to.
I suppose if it had a smaller tank I might, obviously the spending over £100 mental barrier comes into play.
Filled mine recently and it cost £77, I expect that it's now the other side of £80 for the same fill as prices have risen here this week.
Both the work vans have 80 litre diesel tanks, I'm glad I'm not funding those fills at £120-ish at the pumps it's scary, thankfully the fuel card makes the final cost a bit less painful).
Always brim fill unless I've been stuck and having to use an expensive filling station like a motorway, then it's what I need. Pretty much always run down to the last 1/8 of a tank, unless I am about to make a longer journey and then I go and fill.
Drove past 2 stations yesterday, both empty of fuel. South London crystal palace/penge.
And there's the problem.
It's mildly inconvenient, it doesn't save as much as the calculation, I keep my tyres pumped up instead, etc. Meanwhile the planet burns.
We all need to do more and before anyone says, it's not an either/or choice. If it was 'only' a 1% saving that would take the equivalent of 327,000 cars worth of journeys off the road. In the UK. But yeh, 'it's inconvenient'
If it was ‘only’ a 1% saving that would take the equivalent of 327,000 cars worth of journeys off the road. In the UK. But yeh, ‘it’s inconvenient’
I do see the logic in this and I'm open to looking at the figures. But it's theoretically a lot less than 1% and there might not even be any improvement at all. In fact it could swing the other way by the time you account for increased trips to the petrol station. And we're getting into the territory of it would be just as efficient for people to reduce the size of their bellies. Which they'd probably do if they used the car less. Not to mention cars are 100s of kg heavier than they used to be, and often for no good reason other than because. Half filling the tank is right at the bottom of things we need to do when thinking about these issues, imo.
A driver of a 944 turbo giving out fuel efficiency advice! Made me chuckle.
What extra trips? I said in the first post, I pass petrol stations all the time. It's not an outing!
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">Half filling the tank is right at the bottom of things we need to do when thinking about these issues, imo.</span>
Your other points are true but it's not either/or. Do what we can, not avoid because blah blah China and India or whatever.
I’ve seen references that suggest saving 60kg of weight can save 2% on economy.
Rather depends on the style of driving. My new car is about 300kg heavier than my old one, the more acceleration there is on the trip i.e. the more stop/start and junctions etc the greater the difference between its fuel economy and what I'd have expected from the old one.
A driver of a 944 turbo giving out fuel efficiency advice! Made me chuckle
Haha, no it's not the most efficient of cars, 40mpg has happened on a long run, I just can't see the point of filling the tank with enough fuel to drive it back to Germany if it only does 100 miles every couple of weeks.
I did fill it up the other day so I could transfer some fuel to OHs car.
Ah the environmental irony of needing more than a ton of steel and diesel to transport one human then talking about saving the planet by putting less weight fuel weight in it with a straight face.
I got 61 miles to the gallon on my computer thing going to Morrisons the other day, I thought that was pretty impressive, how does that compare?
Who claimed that?
I got 61 miles to the gallon on my computer thing going to Morrisons the other day, I thought that was pretty impressive, how does that compare?
I walk to the supermarket, and I don't drink any petrol at all
Ah the environmental irony of needing more than a ton of steel and diesel to transport one human then talking about saving the planet by putting less weight fuel weight in it with a straight face.
So until India and China get their act together no-one else should make any other efforts?
It's such an easy thing to do, to not fill up and save your 1% or whatever.... the only real argument I've heard against is because it's inconvenient.
I'll tell you what it is.... it's just selfish.
I’ll tell you what it is…. it’s just selfish.
I'm still not convinced there's any real benefit to not filling the tank. Even if you don't go out of the way to get fuel (it's generally an extra 500m or so urban driving for me), you will waste fuel just stopping and getting started again.
Selfish is getting in the car in the first place.
My v70 has a 70ltr tank, its noticeably slower to accelerate with a full tanlk
Economy stays the ssme though as the car is 1750kg dry weight so 30 kg hardly makes a difference
I’m still not convinced there’s any real benefit to not filling the tank.
The laws of physics says it does. I'm not talking about putting 5 ltrs in and starting and stopping 3 times a day.
Selfish is getting in the car in the first place.
I didn't say it was the worst selfish act, or an exclusive over all selfish acts, but by it's very definition it is a selfish act.
No-one can save the planet single handedly, but collectively it can make a difference, and frankly we don't have the choice not to.
Economy stays the ssme though as the car is 1750kg dry weight so 30 kg hardly makes a difference
Science says you're wrong. It might be a small difference but there is a difference. x 32M cars in the UK.........
So I fill up half a tank but go to the petrol station twice as many times? how does that work?
Exactly as you wrote. Why's it difficult?
Fortunately, they put petrol stations on the roads that people drive on. Most people will pass loads in their normal course of driving, you don't have to 'make a trip' to fill up. I went to see my elderly parents today, 15miles e/w and passed 7 on the road I was on, plus 3 supermarkets. 20 opportunities in 30 miles.
People making themselves extra work to save ~25kg in a vehicle weighing somewhere between 1 and two tons. Meanwhile in a parallel thread, we we all discussing how much pointless shit we all have in our boots.
Y'all driving Austin Allegros still? Made sense then, likely half the weight and half the fuel economy of a modern car.
Worst debate ever.
