re there’s also petrol and food shortages in europe, it’s not happening here in Denmark 😉
Yep it’s absolutely hell here in Spain,even the Iceland was rammed full of English food.
it’s not happening here in Denmark
Perhaps spending Christmas with the Danish inlaws isn't such a bad idea after all!
I see a lot of benefits to EV's, but on the other hand, it seems like they are just another excuse for the car industry to tell us all we need to buy new cars; we must buy our way out of the climate crisis by acquiring expensive consumer goods many of which are ludicrous adult Tonka toys called SUVs.
We shouldn't kid ourselves that the lifetime carbon costs of these items are not massive particularly the batteries that don't recycle.
Just called at Tesco on our way home from work to do our usual food shop.
No one queuing for fuel although they had diesel and unleaded for sale.
Just been on local TV news and it the same throughout the town
“Tat” doesn’t really need reliable timely supply chains. Food and fuel does.
True but the cost of shipping is so high now that it makes them uneconomic to make.
@I_scoff_cake pretty much sums up.my view on EASTER. Another way to get us to buy yet another new thing, and making stuff is not good for the environment. People spending all day sat in an electric vehicle jam aren't saving the environment, they are just doing marginally less damage than they might have done had they bought a brand new petrol car, but loads more than by not driving the 300 yards of the school run in the first place and just keeping the old car going for those days when there really is absolutely no alternative to driving. But no one would make any money out of the night they did that, selling new cars makes lots of people lots of money so keep buying new things...
.
If this week has shown us anything it's how much we have to rely on cars. (Scotrail are on strike again this weekend for example) Only a minority of the country is within sensible distance of a railway, vast swathes of rural Britain have no public transport at all.
Business partner is also nearly empty and so we may have to shut production
Out of curiosity, why would that be ?
That's meant to say EVs, no idea where EASTER came from🤷♂️
Basically we need to drive less, probably a lot less, not buy a new car.
pretty much sums up.my view on EASTER. Another way to get us to buy yet another new thing,
I don't think chocolate eggs are all that new.
No one said that EVs are pollution-free, but they don't tend to dump it in areas where people live.
Charge off solar, or when it's windy, and the only pollution is tyre dust (which I admit is still a problem).
I daresay the situation would be better if we collectively broke the legs of people who sit in their cars with the engine idling while they eat/sleep/make phone calls.
Batteries are almost completely recyclable, as is the steel, aluminium, copper and rare earth elements that the cars are made from. We're moving away from growing cows to stick to seats. EV batteries no longer contain cobalt.
Batteries are almost completely recyclable
Do you have a source for that claim?
@reluctantjumper Asda Pentwyn had fuel and no queues as of about an hour ago according to our FB.
Without wishing to derail the thread...
Basically we need to drive less, probably a lot less, not buy a new car.
We need to drive a lot less AND buy a new car, but only when our current one wears out.
i_scoff_cake
Free MemberDo you have a source for that claim?
Tesla say that the only parts of their battery packs that aren't recycled are the module casings- 100% of the batteries themselves are either reused or recycled.
Reuse is a big deal- most of the individual cells will be perfectly usable at the end of the car's life, even if no longer at their best, so it makes little sense to recycle them. So frinstance, Tesla powerwalls and megapacks have included ex-tesla car cells, Renault does the same with Powervault. Nissan have done a load of distributed grid and offgrid storage stuff.
And there's loads of other simpler products out there using second-life lipo cells- if you've bought a cheap chinese torch or bike light or similar there's a pretty good chance it had a repurposed cell in.
I was starting to get a bit concerned about the fuel situation locally, I had half a tank this morning, about 170 miles range, but I drive 155 miles a week just commuting to work and back, without adding another sixty miles or so on Friday evening driving to Bristol for a gig I’ve had tickets for since forever. I heard from a driver at work that Sainsbury’s had a delivery yesterday, but they were closed by six o’clock when I went to check from work!
There’s another filling station a short distance from them, that I more or less pass every morning, and they had no fuel the last few days, but I thought I’d check this morning, and they’d had a delivery, so I was able to fill up. That was 6.15, so the early bird, etc. there are others around Melksham and Westbury that I pass that haven’t had any fuel all week, AFAIK.
Still, getting up at stupid o’clock does have the occasional fringe benefit…
but I drive 155 miles a week just commuting to work and back
You could try riding 🙂
My EV should roll up on Friday…slightly too late for max smugness but ill take what i can get 🙂
Ah assuming the next Crisis isn’t a power blackout.
This occurred to me the other day. Media reports of a power shortage when we're all driving EVs.... cue everyone deciding to plug in at the same time to top up...
Tesla say that the only parts of their battery packs that aren’t recycled are the module casings- 100% of the batteries themselves are either reused or recycled.
That's 100% of the ones they scrap themselves and with these things the devil is always in the details. For example, it looks like a significant portion of the metals are downcycled, and certainly, it's very energy-intensive.
Yeah!!!!! local Tesco has fuel and no queues, MrsRNP back in motion again.
I've used 70 miles worth today travelling to my Uncle's funeral and back. As I got closer to home, there are 7 petrol stations in my immediate area, on the outskirts of Guildford and no unleaded or diesel at any of them.
I have 40 miles to do tomorrow to work and back, and 80 miles left on the trip computer. It's starting to get a bit tight.
This occurred to me the other day. Media reports of a power shortage when we’re all driving EVs…. cue everyone deciding to plug in at the same time to top up…
At least with EV you have alternative ways of (slowly) charging via either home renewable's or by ICE powered generator. DIY crude oil cracking is a little trickier.
At least with EV you have alternative ways of (slowly) charging via either home renewable’s or by ICE powered generator. DIY crude oil cracking is a little trickier.
True. But I was more thinking of the impact on the grid. A marginal situation could quickly become an outage if everyone plugged-in at the same time. Preventing that will be one of the purposes of the proposed connected charging systems I guess.
[quote="theotherjonv"]As I got closer to home, there are 7 petrol stations in my immediate area, on the outskirts of Guildford and no unleaded or diesel at any of them.
The ones on the way into Aldershot from the A331 looked fine yesterday if that helps? Don't know which side of Guildford your outskirts are 😁
I daresay the situation would be better if we collectively broke the legs of people who sit in their cars with the engine idling while they eat/sleep/make phone calls.
This I very much agree with. Happily burning fuel while doing absolutely **** all is beyond me.
Needs to be stopped.
idiotdogbrain
cheers, I've heard that elsewhere too but it's a 20 mile round trip in the opposite direction to work so if I went it would have to work out. I'm hoping I'll find somewhere on my way back tonight even if I have to queue. Quite exciting in a completely mundane and avoidable jeopardy sort of way.
Just to add to it. Did 8 extra miles last night. The wife's car is in for service today but we needed to drop off last night and put the keys in their drop box. So we both drove over, parked the car at the garage, put keys through the letter box......and then 'Oh! I put the light on to find the service book for them, and I've forgotten to turn it off'. Another 4 mile round trip with the spare key and as I was already in my pyjama's with a hoodie over the top I just couldn't be arsed to put kit on and get a bike out for those 4 miles.
Which inevitably will see me run out of fuel later 3.5 miles from an open garage.
Batteries are almost completely recyclable
Do you have a source for that claim?
This outfit will recycle them to extract the rare earth elements
https://www.cawleys.co.uk/services/lithium-batteries/
And the main metals are just aluminium and steels so can be dealt with like any other metal recycling.
This is interesting, there’s a piece in it showing how before recycling the batteries, they extract the remaining electricity from them and use it to charge their cars.
Running low so drove around the 6 most local stations at 5pm last night and every single one was shut.
I hope this won't affect my middle class status by not being able to get to the organic farm shop for fruit and veg on Saturday.
cue everyone deciding to plug in at the same time to top up…
One of the reasons for smart meters and a future smart grid is to manage demand, so theoretically it’s possible to prevent this - in such times charging could be throttled or managed or dynamic pricing used to control it.
I see a lot of benefits to EV’s, but on the other hand, it seems like they are just another excuse for the car industry to tell us all we need to buy new cars; we must buy our way out of the climate crisis by acquiring expensive consumer goods many of which are ludicrous adult Tonka toys called SUVs.
Yep...a great commercial opportunity just like the big switch to Diesel...but I suspect it will ultimately end up causing more problems than it solves just like the jump to diesel did. BEV's will not be any better than fossil fuel cars. Politically or environmentally.
Currently about 30% of our fossil fuel supply comes from politically unstable countries and we've shown we are prepared to go to war over our our energy supply security admit causes alot of geo political and economic problems as its a comodity.
If we all jumped into EV's then we would be 70% reliant on China as they produce the overwhelming majority of batteries. Do we want to hand over that much power to China politically? Its storing up serious future political ding-dongs. Also it will take the rest of the world decades to catch up with China's manufacturing and production dominance if it is indeed possible.
And from an environmental point of view China is the biggest polluter...how many new coal fired power stations will be built to satisfy our demand for EV's and other energy solutions that require big batteries? Like big battery energy storage plants to store excess renewable energy?
We'll be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. And it wont do anything at all for climate change.
We have an opportunity to separate the linkage between geo politics and energy supply security if we don't put all our eggs in the battery basket. And at the same time will do alot better for the environment and climate change.
The highway code states: You must not leave a vehicles engine running unnecessarily while a vehicle is stationary on a public road.
I am one of those dreadful people that goes around berating people for doing this. It happens a lot in our local rural car parks and beauty spots. People going to eat their picnic while enjoy the gorgeous countryside view. Yet polluting the very area they are there to admire.
Responses come in many forms from full on abuse (been called some nasty names and felt threatened) to apologies, drivers genuinely not realising they were going against the rules of the highway code and polluting.
Anyway - no trouble getting fuel yesterday, no queue, Much Wenlock.
One of the reasons for smart meters and a future smart grid is to manage demand, so theoretically it’s possible to prevent this – in such times charging could be throttled or managed or dynamic pricing used to control it.
And again, if the Government had even the slightest clue about planning ahead, they'd have been doing a programme of full-scale grid renewal tying in renewable energy sources, a degree of self-sufficiency (such as solar panels on all new builds) and mains upgrading in order to fit in EV charging (ideally off-street because what is happening at the moment is a rush by councils and various private companies to install these things and they're going in all over pavements which is a nightmare for pedestrians, especially wheelchair users, the blind and so on).
I sat through a transport decarbonisation meeting yesterday with councils and local transport leaders all proudly stating how many EV chargers they were installing. Very little discussion about active travel or modal shift. Only one councillor actually stood up and said "all we're doing is swapping a gridlock of dirty vehicles for a gridlock of clean ones". He also pointed out that a lot of the older housing stock in the area he was responsible for simply didn't have a mains supply that would accept lots of EV chargers.
Does anyone know how it is around SE Oxford / Thame (e.g. Asda Wheatley, I'd never normally go to the M40 services).
Supposed to be spending the weekend there, but don't fancy 20% of my trip being "fuel hunt to get home again" on Sunday PM.
The social meeeedya balloon has just gone up with a picture of a fuel tanker arriving at the garage down the road thats been shut for 3-4 days. I expect the queue will already have brought the entire area to a standstill
I posted this on the Brexit thread but I feel its worth sharing here
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1443487482209882112?s=19
Does anyone know how it is around SE Oxford / Thame (e.g. Asda Wheatley, I’d never normally go to the M40 services
My local supermarkets and garages in MK all had big queues but BP in Roade just off M1 had no queues but only premium & limited to £30
Surely there can't be that many more cars that haven't presently got a full tank?
And thanks for posting that @kimbers. Thats perked me right up on a wet, grey morning 🙂
Surely there can’t be that many more cars that haven’t presently got a full tank?
There will be loads.
- The people who had enough fuel to avoid the panic buying are now running low
- The panic buyers will have now used some fuel since the weekend so will be going back to top up as their panic buying behaviour will not have changed and many petrol stations are still shut
Does anyone know how it is around SE Oxford / Thame (e.g. Asda Wheatley, I’d never normally go to the M40 services).
Supposed to be spending the weekend there, but don’t fancy 20% of my trip being “fuel hunt to get home again” on Sunday PM.
Pretty dire.
Asda Wheatley was closed last I heard as they were out of fuel. Traffic was gridlock in Thame heading along to the BP garage earlier today, the Esso on the Long Crendon road was pretty bad as well by all accounts.
The services have had fuel but been crazy busy, also it's hit and miss if they'll have the fuel you want. Most seem to be out of diesel.
I'm local to the area and have no fuel in the bike and next to none in the car. Not quite sure how I'll be getting to work when I'm back in tomorrow.
Not sure if it's just certain areas that are affected,but I filled up this morning at Formby Tesco's,drove straight to the pump,no queue all pumps available.
Monday afternoon I was driving through Ormskirk & they were queuing onto the main road.
Hopefully all the panickers will be sitting with enough fuel to keep them from going near a Petrol station for a few weeks / months.
What are they going to panic buy next,something Christmas related?
What are they going to panic buy next, something Christmas related?
Given the utter bell-endery presently on display in this country, I reckon the supermarket shelves on the run up to Christmas will be looking like Russia circa 1982
I don't know about Russia 1982 but it was pretty grim in 1988. Not a lot for sale in GUM but I did get a knockoff of Optimus petrol stove.
Are you predicting Euro only shops for members of the Conservative Party by this Christmas? 🙂
Don't worry folks. Dom has got it sorted
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1443501088276111361?s=20
the army!
the prisoners!
what next?
the children!
for our dear leaders, its the same gob****tery on a different day
Perhaps we could get ex prisoners and low level offenders to drive desks in whitehall, freeing up govt ministers to deliver petrol rather than empty promises.
Don’t worry folks. Dom has got it sorted
It's been fairly clear for a while what kind of fantasy universe these ****s are living in. Still a bit weird to see them say it out loud, though.
low-level offenders
Well that excludes half the crooks running this c***ry
Perhaps we could get ex prisoners and low level offenders to drive desks in whitehall, freeing up govt ministers to deliver petrol rather than empty promises.
Brilliant! You should definitely reply to that tweet.
If we all jumped into EV’s then we would be 70% reliant on China as they produce the overwhelming majority of batteries.
Battery factories going up all over the place including the US. Car supply chain is more complicated than just ordering the stuff off eBay.
Nigel has tweeted something which should cheer us all up.
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1443487482209882112
Down to less than 100 miles but 3rd garage I went to had diesel (Chesham BP) and queue was only 10 minutes. I can now get to work and back.
Shame the van didn't reverse and do the job properly 😀
Raab is that most dangerous combination of being both very thick and very ambitious.
the army!
the prisoners!what next?
the children!
for our dear leaders, its the same gob****tery on a different day
Its a pity Peter Sutcliffe is dead, Does Katie Price have an HGV (she did have a horse truck) ?
I could get a job as a government adviser .
If things get bad enough, they'll give Steve Wright (the serial killer, not the DJ) early release on national emergency grounds. Having said that, he may have better conditions in prison.
Surely there can’t be that many more cars that haven’t presently got a full tank?
My car is on reserve (since Friday) and parked at the back of the drive while I cycle to work. Cake and coffee supplies are still good so my fuel has no restrictions.
Nigel has tweeted something which should cheer us all up.
It did prompt a contender for Headline of the Day:
Given the utter bell-endery presently on display in this country, I reckon the supermarket shelves on the run up to Christmas will be looking like Russia circa 1982
Not in as many terms, but they were talking about this on Radio 4 when I nipped out for lunch earlier. Interviews with farmers. A huge tomato farmer I think in Scotland, talking about having to throw away "hundreds of football fields" worth of produce because they have no-one to pick them or deliver them. A caller asked "well, why don't you improve pay and recruit locally?" and he replied that higher wages would mean higher end costs for the consumer, and that he'd tried to recruit locally and no-one would do it.
Same story with other farmers. Enjoy strawberries whilst you can. Predictions for Christmas is there's likely to be a huge shortage of seasonal veg. So we'll likely see panic buying and end the year with the Great Sprout Crisis.
Still. Freedom, sovereignty, democracy, blue passports. We won you lost get over it, we knew what we were voting for, our children starving to death is a small price to pay. Project fear, commemorative 50p that's worth about 27p. Coming over here doing jobs we don't want. The Queen Mum, or something, I've lost track.
Strange that prior to the eastern expansion of the EU we managed to get fruit and veg picked.
On the other hand I suppose, "turkeys voting for Christmas" is finally looking to make sense. They've voted for it so they can royally **** it up.
Strange that prior to the eastern expansion of the EU we managed to get fruit and veg picked.
We managed it afterwards too. We can't now though.
Anyone? Bueller?
A huge tomato farmer
large tomatoes, or large farmer?
I bloody knew when I wrote it that someone was going to pull me up on that.
Strange that prior to the eastern expansion of the EU we managed to get fruit and veg picked.
Do you remember the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme?
Or are you pretending that we used to be “self sufficient” when it comes to agricultural workers, with all seasonal work done by good honest British workers… because if you are, you are wrong. This was never the case in the past, nor will it be in future.
We probably need to introduce some kind of South East England Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme to replace it.
Strange that prior to the eastern expansion of the EU we managed to get fruit and veg picked.
Ok so:
1. If conditions are right then economies grow. This can create more jobs. This means you need more people. The people who live here all the time used to pick fruit and veg, but they never really liked it. People from other poorer countries though did it because they could come for a few months, make cash and take it home where it was worth more. Is this exploitation? Hard to say, but it probably disadvantages their home countries because they are not available there to do work. They only needed to do it once or twice for a couple of seasons because in the EU there were loads more people who'd come next time, cos the EU is quite big. Now we have a much smaller pool of people, all of whom live in an expensive country, this doesn't work any more. The people who used to do it back in the day now all go to different jobs and don't want to pick fruit. A million people have left the UK - of course this is going to cause shortages.
2. We still had foreign workers before the EU expansion. I remember giving a lift to some hitch-hikers from Czech who were picking fruit when I was living at home so that would have been mid-late 90s. But now they are in the EU they can easily go to other EU countries and pick fruit without having to apply for visas and be abused by gangmasters and the like.
Still. Freedom, sovereignty, democracy, blue passports. We won you lost get over it, we knew what we were voting for, our children starving to death is a small price to pay. Project fear, commemorative 50p that’s worth about 27p. Coming over here doing jobs we don’t want. The Queen Mum, or something, I’ve lost track.
5 years distilled into this summary. Marvellous.
Hey, I know what'll calm peoples nerves around fuel supply shortages - a strike at one of the largest refineries in the county - if it doesn't go bankrupt first!
Fire up the braziers lads, (but fill them with unleaded)
Oh hang on no, that'll not help.
Enjoy strawberries whilst you can. Predictions for Christmas is there’s likely to be a huge shortage of seasonal veg.
Are you confusing Christmas & Wimbledon? 😀
Fruit picking has always been season work performed by a mobile workforce. Even 100 years ago but it was people moving within the UK. It's also not badly paid.ithink it's more the temporary nature of it that make it more harder if you are local but part of the appeal of you are travelling.
Enjoy strawberries whilst you can.
Are you confusing Christmas & Wimbledon? 😀
Thanks to the present government, I can enjoy Eton Mess all year round.
Shit got real- I couldn't get vpower and had to put dirty tesco momentum in mine. It is sulking.
First petrol station I went to had no diesel and queues for unleaded. Second one I just drove in and filled up with diesel
Definitely seems to be sporadic and very much a regional issue depending on multiple factors.
A friend at work pointed out then when supplies start to get better, people like him who have not filled their cars up will do so. And be blamed for the next round of shortages.
One of the reasons for smart meters and a future smart grid is to manage demand, so theoretically it’s possible to prevent this
I think most EV owners would happily charge off peak. Those of us that can't (smart meter blackout area etc) pay a premium in order that we can fill up with four star electricity at peak times.
Thanks to the present government, I can enjoy Eton Mess all year round.
That bloke who owns Tesla?
(Also: very good 👏)
Thanks to the present government, I can enjoy Eton Mess all year round.
I enjoyed this very much.
We probably need to introduce some kind of South East England Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme to replace it.
Like a scheme where workers can move freely between countries, nah, it'll never catch on that kind of thinking.
It’s also not badly paid.ithink it’s more the temporary nature
I think its more like the fact that its bloody hard work and not too badly paid, British people on a whole have come to expect and awful lot of reward for what they do at work, and the traditionally low paid jobs, especially those that involve a bit of manual labour just aren't an attractive prospect to many nowadays.
On another note I managed to fill the wife's car up with diesel from basically empty (25 miles indicated range) today at a local non franchised station without even queuing at just after 08:30!!
.
British people on a whole have come to expect and awful lot of reward for what they do at work, and the traditionally low paid jobs, especially those that involve a bit of manual labour just aren’t an attractive prospect to many nowadays.
See the comments on this thread about driving a truck being awful and underpaid...