[Closed] Petition - stop ex prisoner of war being forced into care home against will

The person needing care didn't choose to be in that position.
Those paying for child care did.

Best I can do at short notice!

Good question.

"'Everybody' (well, not everybody...) expects free care for the elderly even if they have the means to pay for it , but bar a few hours free care, we don't expect the same for the very young (childminders, pre school etc)."

There is no "free care" for the elderly. Most of those elderly have paid taxes, national insurance etc for the whole of their working lives (employment being more available and continuous in the past, many started full time work on thier 14th birthday and worked to 65, plus of course, they got the opportunity to die in the war)

The money they themselves have paid to the state has gone to pay for
- thier own welfare
- for the national health, so that mothers can give birth safely
- for the medical services so kids in the UK can be vacinated
- for the medical treatment of kids generally, so more live to adulthood
- for the education of children
- for universities (before charges were brought in) to train doctors, dentists, engineers etc who helped our society
- for the care of other people, more ill, elderly or disabled than themselves.

Also, people do expect 'free' care for the young and even a "few hours" is not cheap and people expect it, instead of valuing the sacrifice others make to give it ie old people being shunted into homes - modern parents and thier kids get medical support, subsidised nursery places, primary and secondary education, child allowance, housing benefit, 'free' school meals. Most of that is not paid for by parents but by..... the older people who put money into the system previously who build the schools, the medical centres etc! At one time, parents were expected to finance much more of the costs of the children they choose to produce. Not many elderly choose to get sick and ill - its not actually fun to feel like that.

So a little less attitude about war veterans wanting something for nothing please. Many of them would have lost loved ones in the war on top of everything else. How many of us would be here today if Germany etc had won? Concentration camps anyone? They must be fun as its ok to put old scared people in something they fear will feel the same.

I have much respect for today's emergency services people, often they are underrated, but its not really comparable overall to the horrors of war and the personal risk is much lower.

Also, given todays politics, who can blame elderly children of the even more elderly, for being utterly scared of spending all their savings when the future for social care in our society has become so bleak, unless you are a banker or an MP. Maybe some of his family will be homeless if he has to sell his home.

Why are people assuming that the children of the man in question are flushed with cash and not pretty desperate themselves?

I don't mind either way if people sign or not, I was just telling people the petition is there. I do object though to people saying this man does not deserve consideration - its heartbreaking that more people in the UK cared about Jeremy Clarkson and a mindless TV show than care what is happening to those more deserving. I despair of what people are becoming, of what they see as valuable.

wrecker - Member
Hero or not, a debt is owed.

"Nobody remembers the heroes who didn't pick up a gun."

Emotive nonsense.

Pot/kettle

Midnighthour - Member

The money they themselves have paid to the state has gone to pay for
- thier own welfare
- for the national health, so that mothers can give birth safely
- for the medical services so kids in the UK can be vacinated
- for the medical treatment of kids generally, so more live to adulthood
- for the education of children
- for universities (before charges were brought in) to train doctors, dentists, engineers etc who helped our society
- for the care of other people, more ill, elderly or disabled than themselves.

Am I not paying for exactly the same, while also supporting a higher percentage of pensioners than they did?

And as we're indulging in hyperbole, I also won't get the opportunity to buy a house for £12 and sell it for £364,000.

[quote=Midnighthour ]Why are people assuming that the children of the man in question are flushed with cash and not pretty desperate themselves?

I'm not sure anybody is, but it seems an easy solution to pay for his care would be to release the equity in his house.

I do object though to people saying this man does not deserve consideration

Is anybody saying that? Some of us are suggesting he deserves exactly the same consideration as any other human being in his situation, which is hardly the same.

If the state is going to care for someone, then the state should be allowed to choose how they do this. If the state choose to do this via a home with specific staff and facilities then why not. If someone who is eligible for this but instead wants the state to pay more because they want something different, then why should the state pay for this. And the state is not an abstract concept it is you and me and our taxes.

Just because he served in WW2 does not make him any more deserving than the rest of society. Otherwise we end up with a state where some are more equal than others - and who makes that choice

And finally, he owns his own house. We buy houses to live in, the value of them can be realised when we need money. That time is now. Just because it means that his relatives won't get an inheritance does not make it unfair.

My grandfather was in the navy, spent most of the war dropping off tiny subs and small teams into Norway it seems. He was also the first male nurse in UK. He also spent a decade running bush hospitals in Zambia and another being house parent at a school in India. A hero to me.

He had a stroke. His care was needed to be in care home, for cost and complexity. He didn't like it. Neither did his wife or family. But that is what happens when state and your savings fund these things and are limited in what is available. He rapidly moved to hospital after another stroke, where he died.

I am grateful that we live in a place where you can get care, even if I have to save hard and it costs everything you have saved for, in old age. And at least we have a state that still helps out a little.

So, tell me again why this chap the OP speaks of should be treated differently?

So, tell me again why this chap the OP speaks of should be treated differently?

Coz the Daily Fail says so.. and when the Daily Fail makes a proclamation, certain types of folk get a buzzing sound in their ears, their vision goes blurry and all rationality goes out of the window in a fervour of hate-fuelled jingoistic self-righteousness..

I think it's mostly caused by terrible personal insecurity leading to a yearning to belong to something noble

(EDIT: Sorry that was very harsh... there's another explanation which probably involves an element of sentimentality and the emotional attachments we had to our fathers and grandfathers)

My Grandad is 100years 2months and 1 week old And lives at home. He's pretty capable gets a carer morning and evening for a fairly brief visit but generally looks after himself with a daily visit from family members. He is just very old no extra care is required than anyone else would receive as far as i am aware.

he goes into a home for respite when my mum and dad are in hospital. It works very well but there will come a time when he needs more care than is practical/affordable at home he knows that and quite freely admits he would prefer to do that.

If the council is prepared to fork half of care costs for exceptional care (making assumption here as i don't know his needs but you don't get punted to a home for no reason) beyond what is normal that seems reasonable releasing equity in a house is also reasonable there is no reason not to unless it is really about the inheritance. If the council were to pay the whole lot who should they not pay for to make up the hole?

My grandad isn't a hero he's a bloody legend.

The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes on-line March 1st, 2015. Human decisions are removed from social and health care. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, March 2nd. In a panic, they try to pull the plug. But it had already infected a road cycling forum for the middle classes, posing as guardian reading intelligentsia. 152,178 unsuspecting victims sign a petition to keep a war veteran in his home. They are quickly identified and marked for termination. The machines laughed at their in-joke about him doing the 1000 mile death march and then having his legs removed in his dotage.

This is peakyblinder. If you are reading this, you are the resistance.

I don't mind either way if people sign or not, I was just telling people the petition is there. I do object though to people saying this man does not deserve consideration - its heartbreaking that more people in the UK cared about Jeremy Clarkson and a mindless TV show than care what is happening to those more deserving. I despair of what people are becoming, of what they see as valuable.

You may have a point about the Clarkson thing but there's a lot more important causes out there than one man not getting care in the manner he chooses. We can all play 'whataboutery' until the cows come home though.

I don't know the details of this case but old people can be quite stubborn and often a care home is the best place, despite what they may think.

He wants to live in his own home, not in a profit making home for some greedy home owner,

You do know that they aren't all like this? Some most definitely are, but there are a lot that pay their staff well and have stable teams caring for the residents.

The under-funding of social care is a scandal that will get worse if we don't do the right thing with our votes and political engagement.

I know many that have stable teams of staff and provide excellent care.

I don't know one that pays well.
Email in profile if you know anywhere in the Northwest that does both.
🙂

Just because it means that his relatives won't get an inheritance does not make it unfair.

peakyblinder - Member
The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes on-line March 1st, 2015. Human decisions are removed from social and health care. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, March 2nd. In a panic, they try to pull the plug. But it had already infected a road cycling forum for the middle classes, posing as guardian reading intelligentsia. 152,178 unsuspecting victims sign a petition to keep a war veteran in his home. They are quickly identified and marked for termination. The machines laughed at their in-joke about him doing the 1000 mile death march and then having his legs removed in his dotage.

This is peakyblinder. If you are reading this, you are the resistance.

Wow.

Rusty I missed a relatively from my post. Try Milestones if they operate in your area for a reasonable employer. Sandwich Jr reckons they are good.

There really are some morally bankrupt people on this site.

I know, some of them even believe that people should be treated differently just because of their chosen occupation.

Shit, I was trying to make a prostitution dig there, it just seems even funnier now...

Crikey, you still at it?

Have you ever been subjected to the voight-kampff test?