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Sign this if you would like to choose who runs the country.
144000 so far which is more than the 86000 ****wits who voted for the BlunderTruss.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619781
As nice as that would be,I'm not sure that's how things work. Completely pointless.
And they’ve already responded to say no. 144k is less than half of the (Labour dominant) London borough within which I live, it’s hardly representative of a countrywide outcry.
I’m not sure that’s how things work. Completely pointless.
The petition, or the current government?
I’m not sure that’s how things work. Completely pointless.
The petition, or the current government?
Both ☹
But what if everyone signed it
What if it made lots of people feel active about a shitty situation
Changes have to start somewhere, this might just be part of the avalanche but apathy doesn’t do anything
Signed it, probably totally pointless but there's not much else I can do. Went up by over 100 whilst I signed.
As nice as that would be,I’m not sure that’s how things work. Completely pointless.
Its a passive protest, itll never actually happen as a response to the petition alone but it forces someone in Parliament to acknowledge x amount signed a petition asking for y.
Its absolutely one of those things never to be viewed in isolation and always in combinations including direct comms to your MP, internal party dissent, the economy catching fire, polling etc etc
Signed - better than doing nothing! Will share too no harm in it
If nothing else it will give Rayner ammo to hit them with.
You seem to have forgotten the fact Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007 through an unopposed election and some sort of "gentlemen's agreement" with Tony Blair......
At least 86000 party members actually voted this time....
Not pointless at all! Imagine if 50 million people signed it ...
I wonder if the more people that sign it, the less chance there'll be of an election. Most people who sign it will want change, which gives several thousand reasons for a Tory government not to do what it says.
You seem to have forgotten the fact Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007 through an unopposed election and some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement” with Tony Blair……
I assume that you didn't read the petition. It refers to an "unprecedented crises", a fair analysis imo. I not aware of a previous situation in which a new prime minister and government has caused an economic crisis within 2 weeks of taking office.
The petition isn't calling for a general election because there has been a change of Prime Minister but because there has been a complete change of economic direction. The mandate from the previous general election is clearly no longer valid.
When Gordon Brown became Prime Minister his government maintained exactly the same economic policies as the previous government of Tony Blair. It didn't cause an "unprecedented crises" due to a change in policy. Brown could reasonably argue that the mandate that Labour had secured in the previous general election was still valid.
Edit: Just to add - apart from my above points the fact that Gordon Brown didn't call a general election when he became PM is completely irrelevant unless it is Gordon Brown himself who has started this petition.
Edit 2 : No I've just checked and it wasn't Gordon Brown who launched this petition it's apparently some geezer called Darrin Charlesworth.
What if / imagine…
They have though have they, and it’s been around a while.
I assume that you didn’t read the petition. It refers to an “unprecedented crises”, a fair analysis imo. I not aware of a previous situation in which a new prime minister and government has caused an economic crisis within 2 weeks of taking office.
Although not economic ones, Churchill and Lloyd-George both inherited bigger crisis. However, they did handle it somewhat better than Truss appears to be doing...
Signed. We really need to start trying to do something in this country rather than just shrugging our shoulders and saying, "meh, it'll never change....."
Although not economic ones, Churchill and Lloyd-George both inherited bigger crisis. However, they did handle it somewhat better than Truss appears to be doing…
Yeah but Truss has caused this one!
Ooooooh how very British! Disgruntled public signs petition. That'll show those out of touch politicians.
I can only see two legitimate ways out of this;
1. Co-ordinated civil disobedience and mass strikes.
2. Wait two years and vote the fekkers out at the next GE.
I can only see two legitimate ways out of this;
1. Co-ordinated civil disobedience and mass strikes.
2. Wait two years and vote the fekkers out at the next GE.
I am surprised that you missed the most likely scenario, and the one which probably happen.
As mounting public opposition to Liz Truss's premiership continues to grow, made obvious by opinion polls giving Labour 30 point leads and petitions calling for an immediate general election, Tory MPs are forced to act and eventually replace Truss with someone who reverses her mad economic policies.
Pointless rubbish don't you have work to do.
But what if everyone signed it
They already know damn well their government is extremely unpopular. This petition won't do a thing.
Tory MPs are forced to act and eventually replace Truss with someone who reverses her mad economic policies.
Interesting to speculate who they'd choose next! Every new PM has been considerably worse than the one before, so it's going to be quite a challenge for them to keep the trend going - JRM perhaps, Nadine Doris?
Don’t joke about it too much footflaps. The way things are going I could see it happening
They already know damn well their government is extremely unpopular.
Well I have only learnt in the last 24 hours the sheer scale of the current government's unpopularity, it's actually taken me back a bit.
The question is whether this level of unpopularity will be maintained or whether after a while things will ease off.
The Tories can afford a certain level of unpopularity 2 years before a general election.
Maintaining the pressure will be effective even if it's only because publicly expressed unpopularity tends to create more unpopularity.
If people are aware that something they dislike is unpopular it re-enforces their own opinion. If they feel that they are part of an insignificant minority they start to question their own judgement.
Tory MPs are forced to act and eventually replace Truss with someone who reverses her mad economic policies.
Just wondering if there is another change of leader and yet another Govt with no mandate, at which point is it deemed that this is actually a constitutional crisis and a General Election must be called ?
Are they any examples in which a sitting government has ever acted on one of these petitions? I thought they were just a way to divert protest into an ignorable form?
Just wondering if there is another change of leader and yet another Govt with no mandate, at which point is it deemed that this is actually a constitutional crisis and a General Election must be called ?
When was the last time you got to vote for the prime minister?
Also in what strange world is calling a GE, and the huge uncertainty that causes along with the slump in markets in any way a solution to the crisis this is supposed to solve?
What happens if Truss wins that election? Does that solve the crisis? What happens if it turns out that the next PM is worse? That Labour's plans (because I'm guessing this is really just a we want a labour govt. petition) don't add up or work in practice? What happens when (since it's a GE and that's how these things work) both parties promise massive funding for X Y Z, lots of spending, no tax increases etc because it looks good on the front page of the mail/guardian and it makes things worse?
I have been reading an excellent book recently "the Blunders of our Government" it is a bit old now and will need 3 more volumes for Brexit, but an interesting insight into Thatcher and how cocky and risk happy she got towards the end (poll tax!). I didn't live here then so this is all education to me. Truss has just started nearly at the end on her Thatcher journey.
Part of me would like Liz and Kwassi to chop away for another year or two making the Tory party totally unelectable for another decade.
Another part of me worries that if given enough time they might right the boat a bit and that would be enough for the blue-rinse brigade and swivel eyed loons to forgive, forget and vote for their own destruction...
The main problem is the longer they persisting power the more damage they potentially do and the more they hurt those most vulnerable to it...
Let's see how many people sign the petition by the end of the weekend before calling it pointless?
because I’m guessing this is really just a we want a labour govt. petition
Why are you guessing that? The guy who started the petition might be a member of the Liberal Democrats, or an SNP supporter.
What is certain is that the petition isn't backing Liz Truss.
When was the last time you got to vote for the prime minister?
But we're not just getting a new PM are we ? By Kwarteng's own admission last week, this is a new Government. Obviously an attempt to distance themselves from the previous mess but they can't have it both ways. This Government has no mandate for the decisions that they are taking and presumably neither will another new one.
Also in what strange world is calling a GE, and the huge uncertainty that causes along with the slump in markets in any way a solution to the crisis this is supposed to solve?
At this point in time I would imagine that the prospect of a stable Starmer Government with an actual plan would calm things down immeasurably
What happens if Truss wins that election?
Seriously ?
The guy who started the petition might be a member of the Liberal Democrats, or an SNP supporter
That's very true, yes, but I don't think anyone expects either of those to form a UK government. The SNP don't stand in enough seats to do so for starters.
this is a new Government
Well you've never voted for a government either. Actually since QE is now dead, no one alive has ever even agreed to one.
Seriously ?
Boris won one...
Brexit happened...
The electorate have demonstrated several times in the last ten years alone they can't really be relied upon to not do the apparently stupid.
That’s very true, yes, but I don’t think anyone expects either of those to form a UK government.
No but the purpose of the petition is to challenge the legitimacy of Liz Truss's government and demand that it seeks a mandate from the people.
The fact that a general election might result in a Labour government is not necessarily the driving force behind the petition, although it is a likely consequence.
Also in what strange world is calling a GE, and the huge uncertainty that causes along with the slump in markets in any way a solution to the crisis this is supposed to solve?
<blockquote/>
It worked for Teresa May, she got her 'strong and stable' government...
I think we'll disagree for sometime on which of those is a happy consequence and which is the purpose Ernie, maybe I'm just much more cynical about the electorate!
an interesting insight into Thatcher and how cocky and risk happy she got towards the end (poll tax!).
I can't comment on the book but Thatcher was very cocky and risk happy from the start of her premiership.
The most famous quote attributed to Thatcher "the lady's not for turning" she said in 1980 at a Conservative Party Conference, in response to many in her party calling on her to preform a U-turn on her monetarist economic policies which were making a every serious situation much worse.
The Tories won the 1979 general election under the slogan "Labour isn't working" due to there being 1.5 million unemployed at the time. Thatcher's policies pushed unemployment to over 3 million and many felt that rising unemployment, especially in the industrial heartlands such as the Midlands which had swung to the Tories, was political suicide.
Her policies towards the Falklands Islands were extremely high risk. She initially stripped Falkland islanders of their full British citizenship and withdrew naval presence in the area sending a green light to the Argentine junta that she felt little committment to the islands. When Argentina invaded she was determined not to have a diplomatic solution and instead fight a very risky war.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/apr/03/falklands.world
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-falklands-gamble
Her year long confrontation with the miners was also high risk. She relied very heavily on the Nottinghamshire highly productive coalfields carrying on working to supply just sufficient coal to add to what had been stockpiled in preparation for the strike. Had Notts miners joined the strike there is a real possibility that Britain would have ground to a halt and she would have been forced to either negotiate, call a general election (which she probably would have lost) or resign.
The Poll Tax was simply the gamble which backfired on her and finished her off.
Perhaps Liz Truss draws her inspiration from Margret Thatcher's resolute determination. The question is does she feel lucky? Thatcher got lucky.
The electorate have demonstrated several times in the last ten years alone they can’t really be relied upon to not do the apparently stupid.
The Labour party did a very good job, with Corbyn, of making itself unelectable, so people didn't have an obvious 'good' choice...
Signed, FWIW.
The Labour partyMurdoch did a very good job, with Corbyn, of makingitselfhim unelectable, so people didn’t have an obvious ‘good’ choice…
Not to get onto that topic, but FTFY, IMHO.
so people didn’t have an obvious ‘good’ choice…
Of course they did. Voters chose to vote Conservative, they could have voted Labour or Liberal Democrat, they chose not to.
The Labour party did a very good job, with Corbyn, of making itself unelectable, so people didn’t have an obvious ‘good’ choice…
This has (probably still is being) discussed at length in other threads so I'll avoid it here beyond to say you could be right, I'd still disagree.
When was the last time you got to vote for the prime minister?
Technically, never...
I vote for a local candidate, who in turn is a member of a party (unless independent) if they win in my constituency that party gains the seat, if the party gets more seats their leader is asked to form a government...
Of course we all know how the game really works and the local candidate is basically a proxy vote for the figurehead/party you support at that moment...
If my MP was a Tory, I'd be writing to them. Since she's Labour, there's no point, she'll be opposing Truss/Kwarteng anyway. They are ignoring public and media opinion; in practical terms, Tory MPs are the only people who can influence them at the moment.
At this point in the cycle, perhaps for the first time in history, my (relatively sane*) Tory MP means I have the most political influence I've ever had in my life. He's currently pretty much the only one in the north of England forecast to retain his seat.
*I said relatively.
I signed it
But there's no way the Tories will have a GE until the latest possible moment
My MP is Chris Philp - part of the mad trio.
If I wrote him a letter I might risk prosecution under the Malicious Communications Act.
"You seem to have forgotten the fact Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007 through an unopposed election and some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement” with Tony Blair……"
The fact that Brown was going to replace Blair mid-term was laid out clearly to the electorate at the 2005 GE, so it wasn't really a gentlemen's agreement was it? It was a proposal put to the electorate fair and square and the public went for it.
Absolutely no comparison. This is more like a coup.
I thought everyone knew by now, it isn't the government's fault or even the previous government's fault.
It's the next one 🙄
177.5k and rising at speed!
I have just realised that the OPs petition has nothing to do with Liz Truss's premiership nor Kwasi Kwarteng's mini budget. It was started when Boris Johnson was still PM.
A fresh petition which refers to recent events, rather than events of a couple of months ago, needs to be started.
The current one has to be at least considered for debate in the House of Commons as it has reached 100k signatures, although it will presumably be dismissed as no longer relevant.
However the government's response, which they are obliged to give when a petition reaches 10k, bizarrely refers to the change of government which the petition doesn't appear to:
"A change in the leader of the governing party does not trigger a general election – this has been the case under governments of successive political colours."
If my maths is correct, Johnson would have agreed to resign 2 weeks before the petition was started, so the assumption would be its really moaning about not getting a say in the new Conservative leader and therefore PM or (probably and IMHO) the person who started the petition wanted a GE whilst the cons, didn't have a leader.
Following the wording mind I'd have to surmise the crisis which precipitated the petition was the the ministers thing and the general paralysis of everything whilst we all waited for the Conservative leadership election, what with nothing else on that list being new. Of course the paralysis was a symptom of the resignations, not cause, and wouldn't have been any better if we had a GE.
The obvious crisis was the list of leadership candidates but they don't actually reference that.
From the official response to the petition:
"The United Kingdom is a Parliamentary democracy, not a Presidential one."
Excellent. Now, tell us again about referendums, "the will of the people" and UK democracy?
I have just realised that the OPs petition has nothing to do with Liz Truss’s premiership nor Kwasi Kwarteng’s mini budget. It was started when Boris Johnson was still PM.
Meh, still relevant I reckon it's the same party with most of the same prominent faces at the top. They've just shuffled about a bit, it's not like Liz or Kwassi weren't part of that previous government...
And I certainly don't think the UK having a conservative government today is any better than it was back in June.
Do they represent the interests of the majority of the electorate right now?
I would suggest they really don't...
And I certainly don’t think the UK having a conservative government today is any better than it was back in June
I'm going to hazard a guess you'd have been of the same opinion immediately after the last GE though, that's not grounds to have another election. You can't keep asking until you get the answer you like.
Do they represent the interests of the majority of the electorate right now?
I would suggest they really don’t…
And they didn't last year either, nor would any other likely outcome of elections in the UK. Without a shift to PR your very unlikely to get any government that does.
I'm surprised no one on here hasn't started a petition rejoin the EU.
Leave Truss where she is, a bit more rope & she'll hang herself anyway.
it’s not like Liz or Kwassi weren’t part of that previous government…
It's not the change of personality that is the issue, it's the change of economic and political direction which is the issue.
The previous government could reasonably claim to have a mandate from the electorate for their policies, such as 'leveling up', ban on fracking, and other manifesto commitments.
Truss's government new economic and political direction cannot claim to have the same mandate for scrapping the top rate of taxation, removing the bankers bonuses cap, ignoring the OBR, and all the other issues which have resulted in the current crises.
The Chancellor has openly admitted that this is a new era and a new direction. They need a new mandate for that and if they aren't prepared to put their new policies to the British people then the petition should be calling for that.
Oh I've documented my bias in this thread and all over STW, I've never been a staunch Tory. You can take most of my statements as rhetorical, but these things need to keep being put anyway, its all part of the rich and informative exchange of views and perspectives that makes the internet such a pleasant and enriching experience... 😉
And you're right no government will ever be fully representative, but it's fair to say it's a sliding scale rather than a binary thing. We're currently at the wrong end of that scale (IMO).
TBH I don't believe we'll get another election, a switch to PR is even more unlikely, but you need to keep chipping away if you think either would do us some good.
I’ve never been a staunch Tory.
In that case I'm not sure you're allowed on here, I'm pretty sure it's a staunch Tory only membership policy.
Whatever happened to fixed-term parliaments, eh?
Signed
144000 so far
Posted 9 hours ago
It's now over 206000. My calculator reckons that's about 115 per minute.
raincloud
Free MemberYou seem to have forgotten the fact Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007 through an unopposed election and some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement” with Tony Blair……
I remember it well, so I know how completely irrelevant it is. Brown was a continuation candidate and progressed with the same policies and manifesto which he'd played such a huge part in writing. Truss is the absolute spectacular opposite.
My calculator reckons that’s about 115 per minute.
So in about 6 months time that’ll be half the population.
There is hope.
Signed.
next general election is end of 2024
300000. Making progress.
Signed, and I'm usually Apolitical.
Signed. I don't think it will do anything, but it will do more than not signing it.
Signed.
Signed!
Don't forget to share!
Over 400000 . Sign and share.
The one to revoke Brexit got over 6M signatures...
https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/241584
I would be interested to see some stats on the conversion rates for these petitions.
Looks like it will hit half a million soon
495,154 signatures
Ignore - signed.
Over half a million now.
Interesting line in the longer govt response explaining why we can’t have an election…
In her speech of 6 September 2022, the new Prime Minister set out three early priorities: to grow Britain’s economy, deal with the energy crisis caused by Putin’s war, and putting the national health service on a firm footing.
And use of the Oxford comma, when talking about the health service 😂
Monday could be interesting.
Monday could beinteresting.
I fear that you might be disappointed. The debate won't even occur in the Chamber it will be in the Westminster Hall and there won't be any sort of vote
https://whatson.parliament.uk/commons/2022-10-17/
I predict no more than about 4 MPs in attendance, with possibly one being a lost and confused drunk Tory.
The petition was nevertheless worth it imo, it appears to have been covered by most newspapers and it keeps the topic of an early general election and the "no one voted for this" argument in the public domain.
Bit like the whinging Scots isn't it? Didn't like the result so we'll ask for another one. Suck it up. Good or bad, all governments (and more to the point the voters) should have the right to see their choice give it a go.
No chance what so ever that any other partyu would do any better.
We have a country living beyond its means, just like many an individual.