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The competions and markets authority is invedtigating thr recent changes in the Vet industry where independant practices are being bought up on huge scales by larger companies.
There's a questionnaire here if you'd like to share your experiences with your vet.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-launches-review-of-vet-sector
My local Vet was merged into IVC and there has been an immediate drive to increase consultation fees by a third, charges for previously free services- like processing claims on your behalf - and now constantly try to push expensive dental procedures on you at every consultation.
Yeah I’ve noticed that as well.
my cat was looking a bit rough the other week, had to book an emergency appointment. After an overnight stay and an ultrasound/X-ray, bill was 2 grand…😳
My 4 year old dog died six weeks ago. Three vet visits cost me a shade under £7k with numerous tests replicated throughout his treatment and medicine prescribed which was obviously a waste of time and money (anti biotics for a brain tumour). My vet is another one who used to be a nice village independent but has recently been taken over by Independent Vet Care Ltd.
Ours was taken over too. Three cats with Vet's for Pets as they do the vac for life, and are indoor cats. Other cat was rescue and we'd had him longer and was with the local vet. That sold out recently.. Came to get his vaccinations, he has a specific one for cat flu as he's a carrier. Sorry sir we don't do that, you'll have to come back another time - I'd taken time off work. They knew what he needed, just 'didn't do it as it cost more - I was also on a monthly payment plan for him. Binned them off and went to Vet's for pets and cancelled his payment plan.
Yep.. Consultation fees up and they charge an admin fee for putting a claim through to the insurance... A 30second admin task... £30 unbelievable.. So we just send the receipts and treatment paperwork to the insurance ourselves.
This has been long overdue, they have been getting away with over charging for years.
Seems unbelievable to me that people pay these sort of fees. We've had the odd hundred quid on stuff, but once it gets into 4 figures for uncertain outcome on an ageing or long-term sick animal, there are more sensible options. Plenty of unloved cats and dogs out there looking for a good home!
They need to look at the Pet Insurance companies too while they're at it.
At one time no one insured their pets, it just wasn't a thing. Pet Insurance comes along - the market gets bigger - the vets cotton on to the fact they can do treatments that people would have baulked at in the past and just said 'bye, bye tiddles'. Now they just stick it on insurance and the vets rub their hands counting the ££££'s.
They go hand in hand IMO.
Very few vets or other staff in vet practices are earning large salaries. It’s the large corporates and the private equity firms that they borrow money from that are taking in the profit. Take a look at profits for IVC in the last financial year.
I wish I could be so pragmatic but I'm a sentimental sod when it comes to animals.
Just spent best part of £200 having a hen stitched up after a dog got a hold of her...
My mum was charged £1,200 for a home visit to put her dog to sleep, after already being charged £2,600 to drain off some fluid from the dog’s chest cavity (cancer on the heart). She lives three miles from the practice.
Some are utter crooks. Others are incredible.
I think people just underestimate how much medical care costs.....
Go to Bupa for a MRI, pay several £100 - seems normal.
Ask for a MRI for dog and get quotes the same - seems outrageous 😉
NB The dog will have to be sedated and then revived, so actually costs more.....
Also, not much fun being one..
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/feb/13/we-are-exhausted-and-burntout-vets-in-crisis
I completed the survey just so I could moan about the Animal Health Certificate for going abroad!
Take a look at profits for IVC in the last financial year
That is one tangled web of accounts. When you are paying the auditors £5m there is some pretty creative work going on
It’s the medicine costs that really boil my pee. Pack of ‘doggie paracetamol’ cost me 20 quid the other day. It’s exactly the same as the stuff you buy in boots for a quid
im insured, and even if I wasn’t I’d sell my worldly possessions to keep my hound and mog healthy. But I object to the piss getting taken, simply because they know they can.
I wish I could be so pragmatic but I’m a sentimental sod when it comes to animals.
Well I'm not going to criticise people who behave differently, but my views are somewhat informed by the cat fostering we're involved in. Everyone who spends £1000s prolonging the life of a much-loved but ageing and sickly (dying) pet is condemning another young kitten to a short and difficult feral life, basically. In terms of animal welfare, it just doesn't make that much sense to me.
I think people just underestimate how much medical care costs…..
Firstly thats a valid point
But secondly it misses the point. We had a few "quotes" for some surgery on our dog (young, he had cherry eye). Vets A was 3 times the price of Vets B, vets B had the eye specialist, vets A actually acknowledged they didnt have anyone that specialised in eye surgery but would find someone willing to try.
Take a wild guess at which Vets was all over the "do you have insurance" chat, and which just talked about the best option for the dog.
Charged me 350 for an ahc for 2 dogs. Last year was 250, which I thought was high but heh, their place is easy and convenient. So that's the rise in 12 months.
Charges 200 for medication I now get for 100 plus a 20 prescription from them.
This stuff is not medical care, it's piss taking.
As has already been said, don't blame the vets and other practice staff, as they're not seeing a significant share of the profits. Daughter is a vet, but now teaches at Bristol vet school rather than work in a practice, though she keeps her hand in* volunteering at blue cross . Salaries are way less than people imagine, newly qualified vets are poorly supported, stress and suicide and rates are high and retention rates in the profession are low. People leave to do other things in droves.
*cue cows arse comments
Charged me 350 for an ahc for 2 dogs.
I paid 250 for one dog a few weeks ago. First time we'd done it and unfortunately left it too late to book into one of the online places that do it for a lot less. Vets hate the AHC as well, which is probably why they charge so much, they basically need to book out an hour slot.
As has already been said, don’t blame the vets and other practice staff, as they’re not seeing a significant share of the profits
I can imagine. I suppose a significant part of the job would also be putting a lot of cats and dogs to sleep.
I can't see that being very good for the mental health of the vet 🙁
We used to live in Hampshire and we checked the prices today if we’d taken our 2 dogs for their health checks + vaccinations - it would cost £250+ and both appointments would take no more than 15 mins each.
We went to our local vet here yesterday and were presented with a bill for £160 for both after having been there an hour.
Sorry don't know what went wrong above mods please delete.
Tpbiker - I am a horse vet and director in an independent practice with small, horse and farm departments.
I understand your frustration regarding medications like that but in some cases it is not the vets fault.
We are obliged by the veterinary medicines directorate to use licensed veterinary meds, specifically for that condition in that species, if a licensed med is not available the can cascade to licensed med in a different species, then human meds, then specially compounded products.
In theory this is to ensure the meds we use have undergone safety and efficacy testing (expensive trials) and with novel treatments pharmaceutical companies can have a patent for 7 (I think) years to encourage R and D.
It is frustrating however when a pharmaceutical company licenses a commonly used med that has been in circulation for years because we are obliged to prescribe that rather than the human generic unless we have a good reason not to.
Hope that sheds some light, it’s not always as simple as buying human meds and sticking a dog pic on the front and doubling the costs.
For reference I ride a 2011 Whyte 901 in 26” flavour ;).
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I don't know how the animal health certificates work on small animal but the equine ones are incredibly onerous, pre-brexit export to the EU was relatively a relatively straightforward certificate 4 pages long, the same certificate is now about 16 pages long.
From a clients perspective what they see when I turn up to do the health check an examination is a 15 minute health check, sign the pre completed papers and leave. What they don't see is the hour of prep to download cert for government portal, check the current UK disease status for notifiable diseases, complete the 16 pages of awkwardly worded deletions in English and destination countries language, and the signing it all off on the portal again once the exam has been completed.
@mattyfez - we charge a admin fee (nearer £20) but feel that its fair. Processing insurance paperwork takes considerably more time than 30 seconds, the vet needs to complete treatment section which takes time out of their day. We employ and insurance co-ordiator to process the claims and chase insurers on our clients behalf. It is not unusual for insurers to come back requesting further details or reports and payment can be delayed whilst a claim is being considered.
Declaration of interest I am a vet and director in an independent practice.
I was pleasantly surprised at my last trip to the vets. Consultation was free. Though this was a follow up two weeks after our hound had spent two full days in the surgery on a drip. We paid a big but fair chunk of cash for that. Our vet is an indy we have been with for over 30 years. Initially in a corner shop before going to a purpose built set up in an industrial unit. Compared to the labour rates I get charged for mechanics, heating engineers, and electricians I think our vet consultation fees are reasonable.
@ the-muffin-man I am sure you are right and there are instances of some vets using insurance because they can, but I think its considerably less than you imagine. Particularly with younger more recently graduated vets working in corporate practices in which they have no vested interest.
At vet school there is literally no focus on finances, its is entirely clinically driven. Many more recent graduates (including me earlier in my career) find it incredibly difficult discussing money/costs with clients (because they have had no training in it) and therefore are relieved when patients are insured because it removes a possibly difficult conversation.
Another aspect again that probably is more of a factor in more recent graduates is that University education teaches you gold standard care and how to work a case up to a high standard and again some vets find working within financial constraints and looking for more basic solutions difficult and counter to how they have been trained (that is not to say they shouldn't be able to offer alternative treatment plans they absolutely should).
My point is there is often a perception that vets eyes light up when they hear an animal in insured, and in some cases they may do but it may be for different reasons than you think.
I don't think for a minute that employed vets eyes light up when insurance is mentioned. I'll bet a practice owner gives a sigh of relief when the expensive equipment they invested in gets an outing and starts earning its keep tho.
Out vet practice appeared to me to be very much animal health centred until they were taken into IVC. Then it seems more about the money!
Payment now, payment now, payment NOW poster's everywhere. Says a lot.
Vets costs have got completely out of hand. Small independant vets around me are now part of large groups with a big hike in charges.
A friends Spaniel broke a front leg and his total bill was £15,500. The vets wanted £7,000 upfront before they did anything. They called him to bring the dog in for a check up on its leg and that was £500. He declined.
I used to live in Spain where vets charged far less,spent more time with the consultation,and gave you a prescription(no charge) to use at a pharmacy. In my local vets its just a conveyor belt of people through the consultation rooms every few minutes.
My dog is nearly 18 and i won't be getting another partly because of these greedy veterinary groups.
"They called him to bring the dog in for a check up on its leg and that was £500. "
That does sound like profiteering. One of our dogs had a consultation with a Professor of Vet Medicine at the small animal hospital, Glasgow Vet School. That was £250. I didn't time it but I think probably closer to 30m than 15m as it involved examining the dog and a thorough discussion of treatment options.
Vets costs have got completely out of hand. Small independant vets around me are now part of large groups with a big hike in charges.
Our local pet is part of Vets of Pets group, check up is still £35 for a cat.
We've spent £4k on one of our cats and to be honest, far cheaper than the equivalent surgery on a human via BUPA etc...
I don't have a pet but I know someone who recently retired and sold their vet practice, I was amazed how much it went for as it wasn't that big and was way way over the value of the bricks and mortar.
I don’t have a pet but I know someone who recently retired and sold their vet practice, I was amazed how much it went for as it wasn’t that big and was way way over the value of the bricks and mortar.
Pretty normal when selling an ongoing business, you're selling future revenue as well as the bricks and mortar.
No need to advertise and build up a client base over years etc, all arrives on day 1....
Likewise, the staff etc are already there, trained on all the relevant systems etc.
We still have a good independent vet, prices have gone up but still very reasonable from what I hear.
we have had dogs for over 25 years and built up about £2.5k of vet bill buffer by not taking insurance with the first. We have spent about £1k in all of that time and just pay the bills when they come. this includes one spaying and an infection led to ten teeth being removed a couple of years ago.
The £2.5k is looking light now though and I seriously think when the current 14 year old passes on she might be the last
my girlfriend took her dog to the vets a few months back as he was limping badly and continuously chewing/licking his paws.
Vets take a look at the dogs feet and say he's got burnt/sore paws, you've been walking him on hot tarmac.
Erm, no we havn't and it's not even hot enough for the tarmac to burn his feet. This was back in May.
Get sent away with some steroid medication and the visit costs something like 90-100£
A day or so later GF is looking at dogs paws and it turns out he's got grass seed pods gone right under the skin through his paws.
Back to the vets and it's a sedated medication and operation to get the stuff out.
When we enquired how on earth did you manage to come up such a diablolical misdiagnosis and can we have a refund for the previous visit, were barely given an apology, then they said it's okay we can claim on your insurance for it!
Dog has only just got his walking paws back the last few weeks and is now back up to 4-5miles.
Sorry - my comment came across as a bit blunt. Re the insurance I'm just feel there are treatments being done now that would never have been done in the past not because they couldn't be done, but because of financially constraints.
We've got some very good vets now (we have horses* and dogs) - but especially for the dog we always feel there's an upsell going on. Case in point last year, we took him to be checked over as he was constantly irritated, was biting himself and opening sores up.
Vet's first response was - hmmm yes, we'll have to do an allergy test which is £XXX hundreds of pounds. Then when we find the allergy you'll need a yearly injection which has to be specially made and will be another £XXX hundreds of pounds. I say I'll have to discuss with the wife and get back to them.
Next day I was talking to the lady in the pet feed shop - and she say's 'yeah we see a quite a bit of that'. It'll be down to the grain in the food you are feeding as some dogs can't process it. Try him on a grain-free diet (Carnilove in this case). Bingo - within a month he's a different dog.
My point being - we felt because they know he's insured they went straight for the expensive option that would need constant treatment.
*Well the wife and daughter have horses - the horse vet bills(!) - I just try not too look at the bank statements for those! 😳
I have a hunch that many Vets may now be regretting selling out( because that's what it is).
It's a disgrace the way a pet's welfare has been monetised to such an extent.
Had some pretty dreadful experiences over the years and some great ones. It is never the individual vet but the corporate structure/sales culture they are working in.
I had one vet recommending a treatment while actually shaking their head at me. I declined and said I would think about alternatives and they smiled and nodded. WTF
Unfortunately all the local indies are closed to new customers at the moment.