I hqve a friend who is really into gravel riding. We live in N Wales and he was thinking of trying to organise a gravel ride from his shop.
His plan is to ride in the forestry commission tracks and local bridleways with the minimum of road riding.
If he organises the event and provides a gpx route for riders, what permissions and insurance would he need. It wouldnt be anywhere private and its places we would ride normally without any issue.
Does the situation change if he charges to enter? It wont be a race, just a jolly social ride out, but with hopefully more people than our usual group of 5 or 6.
Do we have to ask Natural Resources to ride where we normally would? Do we need insurance?
Any advice and experience greatly received
Ian
I think it would differ if he was merely facilitating a group ride, as opposed to organising an 'event'.
If he's charging to enter, he's presumably taking on a greater responsibility to the attendees than if he'd just said 'here's the route, I'm riding, who wants to come with me'.
I'd suspect FC etc would need as a minimum proof of public liability cover for group events and a risk assessment drawn up.
If you run an event you'd need permission from all land owners, insurance, risk assessments, medics etc. What constitutes an event vs a shop ride is hard to define. Charging would definitely do it. The fact that it's places you would normally ride isn't really relevant, using the same places commercially for an event means different rules apply.
I think it would differ if he was merely facilitating a group ride, as opposed to organising an ‘event’.
I think you place too much subtlety on wording and if it all goes tits up the courts will decide what he was doing and any liability.
OP - I can't talk for wales. In Scotland, where the Land Reform Act generally means much more freedom, most formal groups still seek permission from landowners who expect to see public liability insurance (e.g. a British Cycling affiliated club would have this) and a risk assessment. This can actually be quite helpful - the land managers are mostly cooperative and will point out felling plans or machinery movements, conflicts with other groups (e.g. if there's a bus load of pensioners on a ramble in the same area), areas with particular erosion issues they like you to avoid etc. Difficult to say when the transition from "it was just a group of mates" to "it was something organised" happens but I think if in doubt it probably is more structured than just mates! Here's some questions you could ask yourselves that might help that:
- if it wasn't for the shop/leader would substantially the same group of people all be riding together? if its just a group of mates if one can't go most likely the rest go anyway.
- how do people find out about it? mates, and mates of maters find out informally.
- if everyone participating is "equal" (i.e. as peers rather than someone leading) then can any participant suggest a different venue / time?
That will at least answer the should I be thinking about insurance question. I'd say the 'do I need to discuss with the landowner' question is probably about group size. If it is big enough to disrupt others or attract attention then yes (there is a rather satisfying feeling when someone complains about your activities and says "do you even have permission to be here" and you get to say "yes, do you?"). That will depend on the area and how busy it normally is.
Thanks all, it seems messing with words is just that.
Its troublesome but corrwct that all those checks are in place.
Im grateful for the clarity provided by those who know.
Regards
Ian
I think you place too much subtlety on wording and if it all goes tits up the courts will decide what he was doing and any liability.
Not really - I was getting at a genuine distinction between a load of mates all riding the same trail at the same time, and a more formally organised event.
I'm sure loads of shops "organise" rides but on the basis that it isn't actually organised - i.e. meet here if you want to and then we'll ride somewhere.
That is in distinction to an actual organised event where the organiser takes payment etc such as one of the bigger events etc.
FWIW, I think the shop in Swinley have stopped advertising ride-outs in the evening.
Even though they start & end at the trail head / shop and shop staff go on them.
Don't forget that FC land is private land.
Rights of way may be different. When I ran motorcycle competetions on RoW I needed local council permissions are they control the "right" element who also wanted landowners consent although the latter actually couldn't prevent us if the RoW had the status we needed. Ie Byway
It will come down to the conclusion of the "event" being organised or not. Advertise it on social media and it could be said to be organised.
