[Closed] perfomance enhancing drugs

About 10 years ago a guy wrote an article about this in the torygraph, and said that if he could afford it he'd take HGH forever. He hated the side effects of everything else.

Not long term no, but I would really like to understand what sort of difference they can make so I would happily trial them for a bit.

There was an interesting article in "outside" magazine a few years ago. That basically gave a glowing review of HGH.

And there is a fair amount of research into peptides which are trying to isolate the good effects from the bad of traditional PED's.

And where does that leave us as the human race, where possibly drug enhanced humans can outperform the rest. Not just in physical performance but mentally as well. It's a philosophical minefield.

Flap, I read that article, I think. He reported some interesting things like, improved, sharper eyesight as well as improved fitness.
Couldn't help thinking it would be useful for older people like my dad who is getting fed up with not being able to do things he once found easy.

Just get an e bike.

E-Bike doesn't help with squash much.

For recreational activity I don't think theres a moral issue at all as outside of the governing rules of a sport theres no need for 'fairness'. The issue with drugs in sport is sport relies on a level playing field - breaking the rules in any way pretty much means the sport isn't happening. For recreation all the drug would do is allow you to have a bit more fun or have the same fun for a bit longer for any given level of fitness. That fine.

If a drug was completely safe and side effect free then there wouldn't be much point in banning it in sport either- the sport could be conducted completely fairly because everyone competing can take it, in much the same way as they can all remember to drink enough water and eat jelly babies and remember to train and practice.

Stallone at 68. HGH works.

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If a drug was completely safe and side effect free then there wouldn't be much point in banning it in sport either- the sport could be conducted completely fairly because everyone competing can take it, in much the same way as they can all remember to drink enough water and eat jelly babies and remember to train and practice.

I mostly agree with one exception. The drugs would likely cost a lot of money so we would still have a two tier system of those that could afford to use them and those that couldn't. Leaving ethics aside for a moment it could still work but there would need to be a level of competition where the athletes were clean in order to pick out the naturally gifted who could then be sponsored to participate in the enhanced pharma league.

it's an interesting point that goes wider than sport. what about "smart" drugs that enhance your performance at work or study - is that cheating?

i have light touch of experience of this from being prescribed beta-blockers for an anxiety disorder. part of my job is to pitch to the boards of large corporates. couple of years ago things went to shit mentally and used to fall apart in these pitches. now back on top of things but still take the pills for the meetings as i find they make me calmer, more considered and just a slightly better version of me pitching than i used to be (pre-issues) - is that cheating / wrong??

i also use them when in exams for my professional qualifications - is that an unfair advantage or devalues my qualifications??

what about students using adhd drugs to help study - wright or wrong?

I mostly agree with one exception. The drugs would likely cost a lot of money so we would still have a two tier system of those that could afford to use them and those that couldn't. Leaving ethics aside for a moment it could still work but there would need to be a level of competition where the athletes were clean in order to pick out the naturally gifted who could then be sponsored to participate in the enhanced pharma league.

Indeed lots of sports have tiers that aren't just skill or fitness based - motor racing being a most obvious from [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkrace ]Folk Racing[/url] through to F1 the cost of participation is a factor in defining the sport, with some classes of sport designed so that you can't spend your way to success, and some pretty much designed so that you can.

now back on top of things but still take the pills for the meetings as i find they make me calmer, more considered and just a slightly better version of me pitching than i used to be (pre-issues) - is that cheating / wrong??

who would you imagine is being cheated? Does you being better at pitching make what you are pitching better? A pitch only gets a message across and nothing more, you either manage to do that or you don't.

You'd only be cheating if you were slipping somehitng in the Board's tea that made them more suggestible 😆

It's not my fitness that slows me down on a bike.

who would you imagine is being cheated?

i guess cheating is the wrong word. i guess the OP's point isn't really to do with 'cheating' but the morals of it all. with little to no consequence would you take something that made you artificially "better" at something or should you just go with what you're born with??

i find it a fascinating philosophical idea. at what point does it become morally wrong? we're all happy to have a few drinks in a social situation to help us relax or on a first date to calm the nerves and no one would bat an eyelid at that, but i think the majority would find it it odd if you were taking drugs to enjoy your sport more / be better at your job, but surely they are not too far apart on the same scale?

The (in)famous article

http://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test

Every gym is full of people who've said yes to that propostion.

Those mentioning "one exception", what about the second exception, not everyone responds in the same way to drugs.

One guy might gain 3%, another might gain 10%. Whilst using the same protocol.

Where does that leave things?

if PEDs are going to be ok, what age do you start your kids on them ?

a good 5 or 6 years of pumping them with growth hormones, right through puberty because all the other kids do, only to have the coaches tell you they haven't got the skills and they need to get a desk job or a trade

Crystal Meth enhances your performance considerably apparently.

with little to no consequence would you take something that made you artificially "better" at something or should you just go with what you're born with?

In a sense plenty of people strive to do that already - the whole ethos of the nutritionist movement, super foods (and plenty of other alternative medicinal and wellbeing stuff) is the notion not of getting well when you're ill but that the super-ness of foods might make you better than well. Even without knowingly subscribing to such ideas the whole vitamin and supplements industry (and the little pots of yogurt industry) pretty much hangs on the notion that you can somehow be healthier than healthy.

So people already subscribe to the notion, even if the reality might not live up to that notion.

Another vote for coke.

So people already subscribe to the notion, even if the reality might not live up to that notion.

my point exactly, wheres the moral line though? shades of grey between supplements & nutrition to enhance what is already there and PED.

Another vote for coke.

+1

but don't forget the hookers. it not the same without the hookers

If there were little to no side-effects, bearing in mind that some of these drugs would improve your day to day living, the question might be why wouldn't you take them?

In terms of riding a bike specifically though, in what way would they make it more fun? Other than riding faster than your mates - which still has ethical implications, if we accept that there is some level of competitiveness there.

my point exactly, wheres the moral line though? shades of grey between supplements & nutrition to enhance what is already there and PED.

Theres two moral lines really - supplements and nutritionism pander to the idea that they [i]could[/i] have enhancing qualities but they don't. People would have the same motivations to use PEDs, the only difference is they [i]do[/i] work. Whats the moral position for the selling the idea you can live an enhanced life but failing to deliver that, all you're really doing is making people's piss expensive.

Its just performance management, you can achieve through various strategies.

what about students using adhd drugs to help study - wright or wrong?

I did a meta-analysis of the studies on this for uni about 6 years ago. According to the results available at the time, the best "cognition-enhancing" drugs (I think they were Ritalin and Modafinil but I'd have to check) have about half to two thirds the effect on cognition as caffeine. Caffeine in subjects who usually use very little outperformed all the others by a huge margin, but the ADHD drugs etc have become popular (or at least well known as study drugs) because many people have become highly tolerant to caffeine.

TL;DR: Take two weeks off caffeine before you need to cram and take your exam.

There could be those that work very hard to make a living and so otherwise wouldnt have the energy to go ride their bike in their spare time, even though they would dearly like to. Then a bit of ped's would just add to the quality of thier life.

I've tried EPO and i liked it.

I suppose i'd better quantify/explain why i tried EPO before you all chase me from the forum for cheating 😀

Blah…Blah…severe spinal injury…Blah Blah…need to self catheterise to have a piss…..Blah…Blah….this often leads to bladder infections which if i don't catch them in time leads to kidney infections which if i don't catch them in time leads to my kidney's failing.

Anyway………. to cut a long story short i ****ed up big style a number of years ago in my [i]techno-techno-techno clubbing days/lost weekends[/i] but i was still cycling upwards of 400 miles a week on my single speed and by any account i was pretty fit at the time, the long weekends of abuse followed by spending all week on the bike eventually led to my kidneys saying [i]enough is enough - we're not playing anymore[/i] and i felt like shit, not just your normal everyday tiredness shit but so much worse, barely able to move as i had zero energy to place one leg in front of another, tests were done at the spinal unit and my hematocrit levels were almost in single figures from a previous years high of low 40's - i was placed on a course of EPO under my consultants/doctors supervision along with my sensible decision to knock the clubbing on the head and i focused on getting back to fitness - well it didn't take long before i was able to get out n' about at a very gentle pace (think walking speed), and within a few weeks i was almost back up to my previous levels, at this point the epo was tailed off to a maintenance dose as i had to give twice weekly blood tests but it eventually peaked at 53 (if i remember correct) and by this point i was quite happily doing 2 full laps of Kirroughtree in just under 4 hours then on the way home i'd stop off and head up the cairnsmore of fleet just for the hell of it as i never ran out of steam, nor did i feel tired which was an amazing feeling on a single speed.

Unfortunately once my kidneys recovered and got back to normal function i was on my own but whilst i was [i]doping[/i] all i can say is i felt invincible, no hill was to steep nor too long, I'd love a snifter of it now (if it was safe to do so in my current condition) 😉

Every gym is full of people who've said yes to that propostion.

As is every movie star who suddenly looses 50lb of flab and gains a ripped torso in the 12 weeks before their latest action film....

This just popped up on my FB feed:

It is probably not surprising that your attitude when approaching a challenge strongly affects your results. Sometimes expecting results will actually lead to better results than if you were not expecting any results. An example of this is a study with a group of athletes were given a placebo pill which they were told was anabolic steroids. The result was that even though the athletes were not actually on steroids they experienced much faster increases in strength as if they were on actual steroids! As soon as the athletes were informed that they had been given a placebo, their rate of progression returned to normal. Knowing this, it is clear that your expectations affect your results and that, conversely, expecting something to go bad will also worsen your result. An example of this is the nocebo effect, where we, for example, can perceive something as painful merely because we are expecting it to be painful. In conclusion, a positive mindset will help accelerate your results. Placebo is very real and even though we do not recommend purchasing products with no benefit over placebo, we do recommend "inducing" your own placebo effect with a positive mindset.
Source: G Ariel. Anabolic steroids: The physiological effects of placebos. E Medicine &amp Science in Sports &amp Exercise 12/1971; 4(2).

Aaah bugger

Thought this was a thread about performance enhancing dogs.

Other recent studies footflaps also suggest that the placebo effect continues after people have been informed that they are taking a placebo providing they have been taking the placebo for long enough.
I've sat through hundreds of medical conferences and meetings and never seen any set of results where the patients on a placebo as a group did not show an improvement in their condition.

we, for example, can perceive something as painful merely because we are expecting it to be painful

Rollers/turbo.

I also experience this on XC races. I sometimes get worked up on the start line anticipating the pain so that my flight response kicks in and rather than riding away from the competitors I want to duck under the tape and ride away from the race...

now back on top of things but still take the pills for the meetings as i find they make me calmer, more considered and just a slightly better version of me pitching than i used to be (pre-issues)

Placebo is very real and even though we do not recommend purchasing products with no benefit over placebo, we do recommend "inducing" your own placebo effect with a positive mindset.

Bingo.