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So, tonight I came up behind a pair of older walkers on the towpath, double ring at 20m, nothing, double ring at 10m, nothing, at 2m I said excuse me please, nothing. I figured they were entitled deaf idiots so squeezed round them on the grass against the hedge and said Thank you.
@GrahamS I'm exactly the same. A bell pinged from a suitable distance, a sensible speed and a willingness to slow down and say thanks = generally no problems.
I've had the pleasure (sadly no longer) of being both a cyclist and a dog walker on shared paths - as a cyclist I hate dogs not on a lead (the best recall is useless if the dog bimbles under a wheel); as a dog walker I used to dislike cyclists who either did not let you know they were coming or did it so late as to make no difference.
All said though, I was bitten by an Alsatian 6 months or so ago whilst on a shared path - the bell was its 'trigger' and it wasn't on a lead. I reported it and the police took it seriously. It's now a police dog 🙂
It's strange isn't it? I'm with TJ in that bells generally give better results for me, of course giving a friendly "morning" or thanks isn't mutually exclusive.
Had this the other month, came up behind two walkers chatting away, dinged bell three times and they were oblivious so locked up on the chalk* which made them jump, “where’s you bell?”, so I dinged it again and pointed out that perhaps they should’ve been a bit more aware of what’s going on around them as they hadn’t heard the 3 previous dings. Left them looking like they’d been sucking on lemons.
*its chalk gully Bridleway that gets massively eroded every storm so my skid didn’t add to much to the general erosion before anyone whinges.
Oh indeed - I practise " polite cycling" ding sounding from a good distance away, and always say thianks as I go past often with a "lovely day" or similar and a wave of thanks as well.
Disarm them with politeness.
Scotroutes - remember the EBC night rides? Many times I was asked to go to the front of the line going up the WOL so I could use by bell to let folk know we were there. ( not by you particularly)
I used to have a bell. One day Cycling along a Lakeland lane merrily ringing my bell as I approached some people I was taken aback when they called out “where’s your bell” as I passed. Since then I just shout our “how do” which seems to work just fine.
(I did stop and explain I had rung my bell. Ended up chatting to them for a bit. You can met some very interesting people given time to listen.)
The amount of folk walking with earbuds in these days is a pita, even running up behind them results in most of them shiteing a brick.
Mibbe I should run with a bell. 🤣
A bell is a friendly non-confrontational way of alerting walkers but unfortunately older walkers sometimes can’t hear bells.
Somewhat interestingly a couple of months back I had a moment with a jogging pair of crumblies. I prefer to say "excuse me" rather than ding-dong. Cue the usual "where's your bell?" Etc. I paused to remonstrate but told them I found it more polite to call out.
One of them said it's easier for old people to hear high pitched sounds and they prefer to hear a bell.
Would there be any truth in that?
There are differnt forms of deafness but high tone deafness is common as you get older. My 85yr old mother cannot hear a ping ping bell
I don't think it's just bikes - there are certain groups of 'walkers' who think they 'own' every track regardless of your mode of transport. Classic example the other day when running on the towpath with my dog clipped to me on a harness. A couple wearing 'country attire' walking towards me - I get a hold of the dog in my left hand and move the left / waters edge and slow down. She steps left but he stands belligerently in the middle of the path with barely any room on either side - WTF? Other day - Lots of puddles on the towpath after the rain - couple resplendent in their big walking boots see me coming but instead of stopping before the puddle, stand on the foot-wide dry path leaving me no option to run down the middle 'sploosh!' I've ridden / commuted on towpaths for 30 years, have bells on my bikes but know they're not 100% effective.
On shared ROW I’m always happy to stop, if needs be, to let people sort themselves out. Don’t think I’ve ever had a ride spoiled 💩
The absolute best warning is the howl from my disk brakes (when they're howling, that is), that produces prodigious sideways leaping.
Next is the noise of my Hop SS hub freewheeling, it seems to get heard from a distance and people turn to check what's coming.
Dinging the bell (always have one) seems to result in a delayed action response which is not a problem because I always slow right down anyway.
A friendly G'day when close works ok usually, and if they look a bit grumpy I say "Nice looking dog" - btw don't say this if it's a couple without a dog, it seems to make them grumpier.
But Scotland's great, everyone seems to be friendly, and it's now about 15 years since I came across a stereotypical rambler.
as a cyclist I hate dogs not on a lead (the best recall is useless if the dog bimbles under a wheel);
I had one of those a couple of years back. Approaching some woman and a free-range dog coming the other way down a towpath. She stands to one side, the dog plonked itself down on the other side. Perfect, I thought. Then when I was about two yards away she went "come on, boy!", the dog sprang across in front of me and I almost went OTB trying not to carve it in half. People.
the bell was its ‘trigger’
Was the owner Pavlov?
There are differnt forms of deafness but high tone deafness is common as you get older. My 85yr old mother cannot hear a ping ping bell
So bells are not always the best thing 😉
Honestly I don't have one on the gravel bike cause my areo bars are just too look at me to fit one 😉
Would make **** all difference to the people who look straight at you and force you to almost walking pace before shuffling off the entire path, or the ones who let thier dogs chase you, or recall their dog when you are in the middle. Then there are the ones who glare at you for daring to be on the national cycle route.
All in they need to pay some more attention. I'm polite to a point but that is it. Conclusion is these are the ones who don't see you in a car either
But Scotland’s great, everyone seems to be friendly, and it’s now about 15 years since I came across a stereotypical rambler.
Any issues I've had have been in a more urban environment. It's not so much a thing where you are likely to meet ramblers and other outdoor types.
I find my clicky hubs warn people. Also I try to ride at a walking pace when pedestrians are about on paths. (Especially slowly if I should not be there). I also give way to oncoming, and slow my approach drastically approaching from behind. I agree with the person who says bells sound a bit ‘get out of my way’. Not had many problems with these tactics, I think if you give priority, most people are accommodating and understanding.
I’m thinking of fitting a Bluetooth speaker to my bike and an app that plays leopard sounds.
Surely that should be a Panther growl? grrrrrrrrrr
I live five minutes ride from Saltaire (world heritage site) on the Leeds & Liverpool canal. I use it quite often walking or cycling (to get to the trails). Towpath is always crowded more so at Weekends and in the summer. I have a bell on both my bikes and find a bell works fine without loosing too much momentum (calling out less so). Yes, the odd oldie doesn't hear but I have more issues with walkers and runners with hoods up listening to music. Conversely, some cyclists (across all types) don't bother saying anything and just weave through. Always slow down when dogs are around
I've also had mixed results with a bell, now use the cheery "Hello, room to squeeze past?" and "Thanks" method. Mostly works. Last confrontation was with an old boy who was going the same way as me, realised pretty quickly that 1. he's seen me me and 2. he had no intention of stepping aside, or letting me squeeze pass.
So I just stopped.
He just stopped as well, just so he could have a go about what he thought about mountain bikers. I just had a biscuit and tried not get to get wound up which is clearly what he wanted. His missus pulled him away after a couple of mins or so, so I just sat there, trying not to get wound up by it all. Carried on about 5 minutes later.
Some people are just weird.
Try riding the SDW
Its full of groups of 60+ old ramblers who cover the entire width of the ( mostly landrover wide ) trail
I dont have a bell so at approx 50m I shout 'Rider Back'
There is always a satellite link delay so by the time the sound wave gets to them I am at 40m
For some reason they usually come to a standstill before looking left / right and wondering who is shouting
Then they turn round in stunned situational awareness see me now at 30m away and closing quickly.
Now the fun begins . Ethel and Mildred go to left , whilst George and Edna go to the right. Reginald is unsure but he dithers and eventualy moves left. However Edna fancies a peice of Regiald and now darts across to single him out whilst he is away from Mildred as she is a harlot.
In a full recreation of Mike Reeds runaround its now like the Meerkats on the tele with much sqeeking and unneccessary consternation.
Usually follwed by 'slow down ,there are walkers' yeah , no shizzle grandma
Who do they think is shouting 'Rider Back'? Dick Turpin ?Willy Carson?The Lone Rangeer? You think they would hear Silver's hooves even a gentle trot as 1T of horse makes quite a thud.
Still gives them something to moan at
I find a "ding dong" in the style of Leslie Phillips is the way to go.
I was once riding on a short piece of footpath in the New bloody Forest. There were a coulple walking in the same direction so I went slowly knowing that the path would end soon.
They stopped to look at a view and not wanting to look like I was stalking them I continued. Being in the New Forest I was mentally preparing myself for being shouted at. These people must have been visitors because they apologized for blocking the path and said yhat a bell would be good for alerting people. In an equally conversational way I said that a lot of people are offended by a bell so I don’t use one.
Thinking about it, the people offended by bells are probably also offended by a friendly hello. The people who jump out their skin at a hello are the ones that react that way to a bell. The folk that don’t move when they’ve seen you are the ones that walk into in the high street, etc.
I’m not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet, but defcon 10 would Be such a low state of alert that it isn’t even on the scale. It only goes down to 5.
I find a “ding dong” in the style of Leslie Phillips is the way to go.
haha!
I dont have a bell so at approx 50m I shout ‘Rider Back’
Seriously?
People.
Indeed, no such thing as a stupid dog. Some owners on the other hand…
Was the owner Pavlov
More Pavlova than Pavlov. 😜 My reaction to being bitten certainly involved some raspberries…
I always shout “Morning!” Instead of using my bell.
It works best when riding home from work in the dark at 9pm I find. Confuses the crap out the oldies 👍
I've had what the OP mentions from a couple of female runners - both had headphones on. I just replied that it was less rude to say excuse me, and it's good to talk. Old buggers can be right asses though. Had an old dudderer, dog clearly not in control, start waving at me and panicking as I was approaching - yes I can see your ruddy dog is owned by idiot, hence slowing.
Always have to laugh at the ones that have a panic when you say 'excuse me, can I pass' - then they do the left/right jiggle.
Or bunches of elderly walkers - one says "bike", cue mad panic and there are 30 plus old folk wobbling left to right all over the show. Why not say 'keep left' etc.
All good fun.
the people offended by bells are probably also offended by a friendly hello.
TBH, those people are just offended by your presence.
Or bunches of elderly walkers – one says “bike”, cue mad panic and there are 30 plus old folk wobbling left to right all over the show. Why not say ‘keep left’ etc.
Oh, I've seen that a few times. Not just old people, families too. You can be bimbling along at barely above track-stand pace, then someone ahead will scream BIKE!! and they'll scatter like bowling pins as though they've just seen a leopard or an Exocet missile or something.
I get that they may have had bad experiences with the Strava brigade previously, which saddens me greatly, but I still find it a bit of an overreaction when I'm approaching nominally faster than they're walking and will reach them in about a year.
Timber bell user here. Brilliant piece of kit. 99% react just fine round here. We always slow down and say hello/thank you as we pass slowly and courteously.
there are s few... is that ringing noise the celestial microwave delivering a heavenly pasty??
one lady (on a road) said as I’d passed by (I guess she thought I couldn’t hear) the classic “should have a bell”
She was quite shocked when I stopped, turned round, and asked her if she thought that ringing was trumpton on a call out.. her pals had heard me after all...
i also asked her why she thought it was acceptable to be so bloody rude.. there wasn’t a response...,
I put some cat bells on which are great for towpaths, and a squeaky pet toy attracts attention. No one hears a bell, and then when they do they panic and scatter. In Korea Loads of bikes have a radio going.
My favourite was when riding down charity lane at Macc Forest and saw a family up ahead. They were all dressed identically which seemed odd. The child then saw me and started to blow on a whistle. Mum and dad then did the same. It's surreal when you have to slowly pass a family in identical attire, all blowing whistles at you and looking a tad mental.
After reading the thread I've come to two conclusions.
1: It appears that bells should come with instructions regarding correct pinging distance, correct volume and frequency of pings.
2: I've decided that from now on I'm going to ride everywhere none handed whilst gently tapping two halves of coconut shell together. This will give the impression of a horse moving at a gentle trot. Thus leading to serenity for all bar those who suffer with equinaphobia
I get that they may have had bad experiences with the Strava brigade previously, which saddens me greatly,
Or you are just writing your own prejudice into that.
Wobbliscot / others – its what the noises signify. A bell they think “bike” anything else confuses them
I get thanked for using the bell regularly.
Why not use one?
I used to, all the time, when I was riding. You’d be amazed at how many people either ignored it, and only responded to me calling, very loudly, ‘excuse me please’, then they’d ask why I wasn’t using a bell, or else I’d get all sorts of stupid sarcastic comments. I even had one dozy girl, who was walking in front of me on the side of the path pecking away at her phone, suddenly walk straight in front of me after I’d rung my bell, knocking me clean off my bike! She went down and her phone went flying, ended up in pieces. Kharma.
Then there’s the dogs on extending leads, or not on leads, which seems to bestow an entitlement to behave like a complete knob, having rung my bell repeatedly, slowed almost to a standstill, then had a miserable mutt go practically under my front wheel, and been told I was riding too bloody fast!
I wish I lived in your fairyland, ‘cos everything there seems to be utter perfection.
I'm another one who feels a bell suggests a sense of entitlement, so prefers to slow to their pace and give a cheery "hello, excuse me". Just occasionally get an idiot who has to make a scene as they part. usually I'm a few yards gone so it's not worth the hassle or confrontation, so just wave goodbye. always seems an older lady who feels emboldened enough to vocally gripe in a small group, not sure why those dynamics pretty much always turn out that way, if it happens.
Or you are just writing your own prejudice into that.
Huh?
I've never even seen Strava, I couldn't care less about it and am certainly not prejudiced. I was referring to people going inappropriately fast, is all. Apologies if I touched a nerve.
funkmasterp
...
2: I’ve decided that from now on I’m going to ride everywhere none handed whilst gently tapping two halves of coconut shell together. This will give the impression of a horse moving at a gentle trot. Thus leading to serenity for all bar those who suffer with equinaphobia
I present to you... Trotify
That is genius. That’s me sorted 😀
IMO -Ill wind bike co should be looking into marketing the trotify.
They could do a spanish run using maracas.
I’m another one who feels a bell suggests a sense of entitlement
My take is that a bell on its own can risk sounding entitled or aggressive.
Which is why I:
a) use a bell with a pleasant non-threatening "ping" rather than a "drrRrRIiINnNG-dRiIiNnGGgg"
b) always follow up with a cheery "Morning" and/or "Thankyou" as I pass.
Seems to work for me. Although I do live in NE England and the people here aren't startled and confused by someone saying "Good morning" to them 🙂
People are weird.
I slow on approach, use a bell from distance, and verbal greeting when closer, usually a cheery 'cheers' when leaving. Especially important to use a bell if approaching from behind. When out walking I really don't enjoy people on bikes swishing by at speed and/or unannounced - for a number of good reasons.
As the cyclist, I've never had any probs except for ignorant glaring duffers, but they don't ruin my day. Maybe they were deaf. Often, the stubborn/rude ones are also the ones who feel that you somehow are ruining their day. They are very often not justified in this opinion. Some people are poorly socialised. Many increasingly live in a virtual bubble because their normal environment is either car or internet. Outdoors on legs or bike is confusing to many, especially when they realise that other living beings are 'playing in the same lobby'
I find that a useful and true perspective to maintain is that it may well feel like 'my day' but it's always 'our day'. This is why I ring my bicycle bell, be cheery/sincere to other pedestrians, and always pick up my dog's deposits right there and then. Makes you sick doesn't it? 😉
*edit: As for 'pecking order' in shared spaces I tend towards the unspoken '2 legs before before 2 wheels before 4 wheels model, with four legs as the wild card. Of course this is not always perfect, not least because many others use the 'me first' model and play the wild card with abandon. Always a work in progress.
Some people like being grumpy and I find that calling out in a foreign language sets them up for the day "excusez moi" is great for getting the gammons grumbling 🙂
My local trails are a regular haunt for walkers. At the risk of upsetting the STW hivemind, I do not use a bell - I learned the hard way that people don't hear it until the last minute, so I opt for a friendlier approach and call out from a distance that although I wish to pass, I'm in no hurry to do so. Once I get to pass walkers (and horse riders too) I make sure that I thank them and wish them a pleasant afternoon.
So far I've achieved a 100% success rate as I'm invariably rewarded with a smile and a cheery greeting. It's unbelievable but it works.
I have a bell but rarely use it, there's a lot of mentions of 'entitlement' in this thread but my observation is it's more a 'call to action'. What I frequently see is that on hearing a bell the walker has to do something, if they are on the left of the path they jump right then look, on the right they jump left etc. This makes it difficult for me on a bike to anticipate and pass safely. A "morning!" on the other hand doesn't result in this random behavior.
Regarding the hearing loss thing, I had a great example of that a few years ago, approaching 2 elderly ladies on my commute, ringing the bell and being ignored. Eventually, I stop and say excuse me. Only to get the barrage of "you should have a bell". Then 2 school girls perhaps 10yards further along the path turn and shout back "He's got a bell and we could hear it!" The ladies reaction was priceless!
My mum is like this in her own house. You walk up behind her, she jumps and then moans at you for "creeping about". Thats old people for you.
Then again maybe I should ring the doorbell to let her know that I'm in the house ?
The best thing is to get very close to the walkers before ringing your bell, they go all Jack Douglas on you.
We hey.
Not that it's in any way relevant but a few years ago I was walking along a shared path in Newcastle and a cyclist behind me called (louder than talked, quieter than a shout) "Behind you on your left" which i liked and now use, occasionally adding "Excuse me" for added politeness
On a local ride recently I was slowly heading down quite a tight path when I saw Mrs walker coming towards me "morning" I shout, no recognition of my presence, tried again, again nothing. Suddenly she starts as she sees me and start waving frantically to her pals down the path. Also communicating in BSL. Two lessons learned 1. Not everyone hears your warning. 2. It's hard to sign thank you while riding a bike. I got double thumbs up for trying though.