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IDS stands up looks at can of worms .. but declines to open it.
why not? surely those 'pensioners' with large incomes dont need the free tv licenses or bus passes.. etc etc
and surely they'd have no issue with this been redistributed to thier fellow old folk who dont have it as comfortable as they do?
what can the argument possibly be that higher rate tax payers over 65 need help with thier fuel bills?
what is the argument that higher rate tax payers over 65 need help with the 30 quid for an eye test or thier viagra prescription.
and yet despite the 998000 pensioners who have assets of more than a million pounds many do not and they should be provided for.
do the tories seriously believe that if they should make benifits targetted to the vunerable that those millionaires are going to vote labour instead?
what is the argument that higher rate tax payers over 65 need help with......
You've answered your own question there. They have contributed more through taxation. It is perfectly fair. And I don't see the point of stigmatising benefits to the elderly by targeting them purely on the average or less well off, or increasing admin. costs through added bureaucracy.
I dont see why there is a stigma to benefits ...why do you think there is ? You seem to be getting close to demonising "benefit scroungers" there
Cannot be arsed arguing about universal benefits but help should be there for those who need it rather than for all* IMHO...many disagree.
* you end up giving money to folk who just dont need it which is worse than incurring "admin" costs
mostly because they made an election promise to not change the Pensioner benefits - they are not the Lib Dems 😉
Reading a bit more into IDS's plans for a universal credit replacing the components would be a good thing. Sort out a few things like child benefit etc.
As with most of these things it will need a full overhaul of the system because means testing in small cases will cost more than they will save by offering/paying people. Perhaps some of the age care charities could find a way that people could pay winter fuel allowance straight over to them. Free bus passes doesn't really cost if you never use a bus etc.
Cannot be arsed arguing about universal benefits .....
I can't either. You've made your position clear in the past and so have I - I support one of the founding principles of the Welfare State, and you don't.
I'm glad that neither of us can be arsed to argue about it.
Haven't we already done the advantages of universal benefits on here loads of times? Though I have to admit I do always find it quite amusing arguing for a socialist policy given who ends up arguing against it.
They have contributed more through taxation.
Are you taking the p though, ernie? Next you'll be suggesting that they deserve something back for all the tax they've paid.
Free bus passes doesn't really cost if you never use a bus etc.
Indeed. I'm always rather bemused when people complain about the rich getting those (granted it also benefits the well off retired like my PILs who do own cars, but can't afford a chauffeur and like not having to drive, but I doubt they're the ones most are complaining about).
Only after he has gone on about the stigma of claiming benefits and mocked me for not being a "proper lefty" as I dont want to help the rich
It is interesting when some issues dont follow "party" lines
Help should be universal but you should also need it and I think we need to mobve with the time rather than keep some aspects as sacred lest we end up with something as anochronistic and out dated as the right to bear arms
Well done for not wanting to argue Junkyard 🙄
You just can't help yourself can you.
I can only dream of being the personification of self restraint that you are ernie and I was responding to someone else and it was some way short of arguing.
Ernie we are the only two left who "debate " like this ...lets leave it.... its pointless.
If you want to continue goading knock yourself out but I am still not arguing and trying to give up "big hitting".
IIRC the next gambit is suggesting that Beveridge doesn't have a clue about modern economics because he died 50 years ago.
Well I am not arguing so I will have to agree with you there 😉
When do we talk about the fact he wanted a flat rate charge to pay for this - page 2?
I've always swerved that point in the past, and I see no reason to change my ways now.
can I just go and find a link to an old tread and drop it here?
Off to bed the lot of you