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When's the tender run out?
I know it's been done to death but I was sat they're the other week and it really is miserable.....how hard can it be to serve a decent cake/coffee?
Yeh, the old drop off at Glyncorrwyg has...erm....dropped off.
The service is OK but legendary food of old is a distant memory. Quite poor value now. Crying shame. I'd just a sooner eat at the other trail centre now.
Certainly no atmosphere anymore
I'd be happy if they started doing lasagne again. Otherwise it's been OK when I've been there.
I long for the days of queuing up to try to find a seat in a dirty old portakabin, shouting over the music to get your order heard and then having to sit outside in the rain on some manky furniture.
Ah yes. The good old days.
Druidh +1
I think they call it progress ! 😉
It may not be perfect, but it is MUCH better than what was there before.
Can we all chip in and run it? Like a cafe coop?
Can we all chip in and run it? Like a cafe coop?
God, please NO!
There is a cafe at Glentress? Well I never.
Another reason to use the Buzzards nest...
I fell in love in that cafe, it will always have a special place in my heart
Only been to the new one once, a wet rainy Wednesday before the ews, the staff did seem rather depressed and it was all a bit soulless
But the old one was desperately tired and far too small, food was good and had a lovely atmos just as pricy as the new one iirc though food was better
Its a shame they didn't check out the llandegla cafe, excellent food, friendly staff even if it is incredibly busy still a nice place to eat, just feels cozier - theres something a bit 'designed by comitee' about the peel centre
+1 for Llandegla as a model for trail centre eateries.
Tracey and Emma's Hub had soul, I felt a relationship with it as you could blether with the owners while there.
Profits didn't go into JD Sports or whoever either.
But if you want your world full of Amazon et al...
Llandegla is something else isn't it? Reasonable prices, truly great food and seating that treats mountain bikers as people.
If you want expensive indifference, try the Bedgebury cafe....
The old one was a bit of a dive, the new one at least will ahve some appeal to those not covered in mud straight off the trails (Families, walker, passers by).
Personally I go for the trails, I wish they'd spent the money on new routes as I don't need a cafe to go biking and it doesn't influence the decision on where I mountain bike.
I was in the café yesterday and bought some carrot cake.
It was a bit stale...I would still rather eat stale cake from a place that was clean and tidy rather than filthy and condensation running down the walls.
The old café was minging and was like a giant petri dish.
Im sure its run by a local and nothing to do with JD Sports!
I'm just looking forward to the new one planned for Laggan
^ I didn't know they were building one?
I'm in two minds about that. Part of the charm of laggan for me is that it's just trails and a toilet. that also probably helps keep the numbers down.
But, I do like it in summer when the wee van is there and I can have a coffee without pulling out my stove!
The one at Glentress? I thought that was ok, was a year since I was up there, and I found the food was better in the week the weekend it wasn't great.
The one at afan? I remember the old café at the base of the skyline used to be awesome, haven't been since they lost the tender and the bike shop downstairs got it, not heard anything good about it since then.
Llandegla awesome café, was hoping to be tucking into a burger or two after a ride today, but no matter how much noise I make the OH is stll fast asleep in bed, looks like no road trip to wales today.
I'll take the new complex over the old rotten wooden hut any day, it had a time and a place which is now firmly in the past
Its ok I reckon, decent rocky road and the girls that work there are quite fit.
but..and its a big but....how on earth did it cost 8.5 million, and who on earth thought spending that money was a good idea. I appreciate that also included the changing rooms and ground works, but they could have surely built something equally suitable at the lower carpark for much much less, then pumped the remaining 5 million into the inners uplift.
Seriously how much?.. Could of got villa a new striker with that.
I knew they spent some money but thought 500k maybe, but 8.5m on that? I would of wanted some serious change.
how on earth did it cost 8.5 million
That figure seems about right to be honest, given the size of the site that was developed as a whole (i.e. not just the cafe, but the toilet facilities & nature building, access roads and car park, waste water systems, etc. etc.), and the 'eco' design that has been used. Construction in the UK is not cheap!
I liked the Peel at the start and the food is ok but I really think it could be better. the service is still woefully slow at busy times and nothing seems to have been done to sort that out. I think there's a lot of other stuff that could be done:
Not opening until 9:30, particularly at weekends is a big mistake.
Closing at 5pm-ish, even at the height of summer is another. Surely they could do at least one later night a week for those doing late rides.
Run more (any) events. Why not show the DH world cup when it's on? Would definitely draw in crowds. Show other MTB related stuff like EWS stuff from Dirt etc
BBQs and the like in summer. There appeared to be something going on BBQ wise on Saturday but we didn't notice it until we'd already ordered food and sat down. it was out the back and there were no signs up that we could see to advertise it.
It's pretty clear now that it's not run by bikers or anyone with a real knowledge or understanding of biking. While the forest is there for everyone and not just bikers, we must make up the majority of forest users. I've been riding down there a lot over the last 8 months as practice for the EWS etc and the entire place is noticeably quieter. I think this is down to a combination of the heavy handed car park management and the cafe. I've walked in and straight back out the cafe when I've seen it's busy as you could easily spend half an hour in the queue alone.
cynic-al - Member
Tracey and Emma's Hub had soul, I felt a relationship with it as you could blether with the owners while there.
Profits didn't go into JD Sports or whoever either.
But if you want your world full of Amazon et al...
I didn't realise the cafe folk/hotel folk also owned JD sports?
[i] Construction in the UK is not cheap!
[/i]
Not when they were moving an entire hillside so they could sink the cafe down into a 'hollow'...
I use it often, living nearby. Yes it's not the best (probably the original Afan one was) but the food is always hot and the girls pleasant. If it's no good then just ride into Peebles for a greater choice.
Trying to choose my words carefully here as I know the people involved well.
Suffice it to say that your dissatisfaction with the Peel Centre would be far better directed at the Forestry Commission than the people running the cafe who are bound by an extremely unrealistic contract and very unhelpful landlords.
Llandegla is something else isn't it? Reasonable prices, truly great food and seating that treats mountain bikers as people.
Been 3 times, they've not got the order right yet, how can you get beans on toast wrong??
"very unhelpful landlords" How does that make for poor slow service?
are bound by an extremely unrealistic contract
Surely they knew what the contractual obligations were beforehand? I've long suspected that the FCs expectations were unrealistic. I reckon Emma and Tracy refused to meet their demands as part of the tender process and offered alternatives, hence why they were unsuccessful. Conversely I reckon those that won agreed to everything, so they must have known what they were getting into.
When Ian ran the [i]Drop off[/i] cafe at Glyncorrwg it was brilliant, After SSUK 2005 at Machynlleth i decided to stay on in Wales for a week to do all the mtb centres and some natural riding, His cafe was a godsend after a day on the bike, the coffee was decent, his mum baked the huge cakes and the food was freshly made and lots of it. He took me out n' about to ride a few other areas as well and i used his MTB Cymru cottage which was luxury after a week spent camping in a tent held together with duct tape and hope.
I went back a few years later and was sorely disappointed to find someone else running it.
The problems with the tender process have been discussed here before but the overview is that the FC provided figures for visitor numbers, expected growth in those numbers along with the expected increase in visitors and what types of visitors they would be based on the various initiatives that the FC outlined as their development plan.
Everyone who tendered had to use these figures as they were the only ones available, except for Emma and Tracey who had their own figures to work from. They submitted what they felt was a realistic tender based on their own figures which were WAY below what the FC was claiming. Hence they didn't make it past the 1st stage as their numbers were way out from everyone else who tendered based on the FC details. As we can probably all guess, Emma & Tracey's figures were reasonable, the FC's were a complete fabrication.
The upshot is that none of the promised initiatives to develop visitor facilities has taken place, even maintenance of the current facilities is way below what it used to be. There are facilites at the cafe that were promised that did not appear when it was finally finished. The kitchen is less than half the size that was promised and food storage is practically non existant, therefore most food prep has to happen off-site.
Add in that the contract requires that the cafe is open all week, all year round when visitor numbers can be in the single figures and you can imagine it is extremely hard to keep decent staff occupied, hence they leave. Not to mention the difficulty of actually making any money when you have to pay to have a fully staffed cafe open that is empty most of the week.
Oh and to top it off, the parking charges fiasco has decimated the casual walkers and dog walkers that did stop by during the week as they are unwilling to fork out the parking charge when they were just stopping by for a coffee and a bun.!!!!
I could point out that this is hardly a new scenario for the FC. Spot an enterprising business that springs up off the back of forest popularity and ruin it by trying to take too big a slice of the pie to allow anyone else involved to live off and hence run the place into the ground.
Perhaps footfall is not as good as hoped due to the fact the food is crap, usually poorly microwaved rubbish served stale and cold in a venue as bland and dull as a hospital waiting room with surly service.
Is rather eat a sandwich from the shell garage down the road!
cheers for your input highlander, confirms all my worst suspicions!
A very good accurate account by H1ghland3r.
The FC stuffed up the design of the cafe. Don't think the kitchen is significantly bigger than in the portakabin. The service area is no bigger explaining in part why service is so slow. Compare it to the cafes at Whinlatter or Kirroughtree which have lower customer numbers but much bigger service counters and you can see / understand why GT Peel suffers with service.
Also the cafe is hidden behind the bike shop so unless you know it's there you're not going to be tempted in. You couldn't fail to see the old hub cafe from the car park.
Highlander's comments sum up trying to do ANY business with FC, even that much closer to their allegedly core business.
Well done to Petersfile falling in love there! Some great comments here...I agree with most of the points..I know the owner too and wonder if a difference would be made if the management were bikers..
As a side note revelation...have a shower after a stinking ride..it's a steal for a quid.and seems an unused resource:-)
Is it still Oliver from the GT hotel (as was)?
Yup he has the steak house at the bottom
The successful bidder should really have done a little more background work on dealing with the FC. The info is all out there on them regarding unrealistic tender requirements. Would you not question why the team with the most experience failed at the first round of tendering. Once that had happened I'd have been talking to them to get an understanding of why they were out.
Perhaps its time for a round of sell off's and privatizations with the FC, they seem to respond better to their customer and supplier needs when their on the crappy end of the stick. Can't get my head round how those that do the real work at the FC can be so good and those that lead them are such prats.
PS, don't believe the FC should be sold of but in my experience they suddenly become acutely aware that then need good PR.
mt - Member...the FC ... unrealistic tender requirements.
coughLaggancough.
The thing is with the FC is that they are tied up with the same tender processes etc that any gov dept has to use. The processes that the govt designed to build hospitals and warships etc. when it comes to being a bit more organic and getting the right "feel" or "people who ride bikes" to be successful at a tender it's very difficult as the processes are designed to be open and fair. It's very difficult to favour the small guy over a big company with these processes as that's just not fair and open.
I went to glen tress and had a great bacon sarny and good coffee after my ride, the place was clean and was good. It wasn't even expensive compared to southern stds. It's a lovely building and a great site.
I know it's a cafe at a bike centre but I don't get why the chef/ owner of the lease needs to ride a bike for it to be a great cafe. Surely it's better that the guy can run a tight ship and cook good food etc that be able to kick ass on the black. 😉
The FC may use a system to allow correct and fair processes in tendering (as they should) but they set their own targets and estimates of future visitor levels.
TBH as much as I like Emma and Tracey they'd shot themselves in the foot long before the tender came up, the old cafe was a shit-tip long before it closed and they'd shown how uninterested they were in improving that or in offering a better service to the FC's visitors. I liked it, for what it was, but it's no wonder the FC weren't happy. I wouldn't have put them in charge of a flagship new building.
The new place is pretty disappointing too, it's been so up and down and I don't think you can blame the tender because a lot of what they do wrong shouldn't be expensive to fix. But the basic design of the location is bad too and can't encourage visitors. (the cafe should be right beside the car park, which should be about 3 times as big as it is...)
cynic-al - MemberProfits didn't go into JD Sports or whoever either.
Er, what? Cafe is run by the same guys as Boni's Steakhouse down the hill.
I like Emma and Tracey
One of them is nice couldn't possibly comment on the other.
They didn't follow the tender requirements and got booted out on the first sift. Emma and the FC's relationship had broken down so badly that even if they had put in the greatest offer of all time I doubt they would of got the new building.
The total cost also involved buying all land/buildings surrounding the area (helps stop any competition)...any work with Fc is bad...Peel centre, Carron Valley, Laggan, Lennoxtown Forest and Blairadam to name a few...
Visitor numbers are hugely inflated and never accurate...which doesn't help those trying to make a difference (largely for the better).
Gratified to see the shift in tone of the comments in this thread.
Fact of the matter is that putting the figures presented in the tender to one side for a moment. The facilities are vastly inferior to what was presented during planning and construction. So much so that the majority of food prep has to be done off-site.
I know that there were impressive plans for both the menu and regular events during the period after the tender was won and before the cafe finally opened (6 months behind schedule which the tenants were expected to pay lease for!!). When it became obvious that the facilities were not what was promised then the plans for what the cafe would be able to offer had to be drastically curtailed.
Could never understand the set up. Cafe faces the wrong way and is too low and far away from the car park.
Have they fixed the flooding in the basement of the Bike shop?