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Ok.
Thanks.
Came across to me as very us & them.
And the best they could come up with is that 'they' should be grateful to 'us'?
Not one positive, pro cycling message in the whole section.
Cycling is dangerous.
Cyclists are not quite as good as the rest of us.
Cycling is painfull.
Car drivers are all saints.
Public transport is dangerous.
Give them an inch etc.
It seemed designed purely to reinforce the prejudices of non cyclists.
Harry, if you don't like it, don't go online to flame it!
A missed opportunity to get any of the positives about cycling across to the masses... and I'm not sure any of the relatives of those who died last year would be chuckling at the throwaway comments about cyclists getting hurt...
Pandered to too many negative stereotypes and too London-centric. FWIW, when TfL published a study (teams of researchers standing on multiple junctions counting cyclists) in 2007, 84% of cyclists stopped at red lights.
Boardman et al massively missed the opportunity to put out all the positive messages and stats. That fake disapproval to the 'films' was weak - they really should have countered with a load of myth-busting facts.
Maybe it comes across as taking it too seriously but given every regular cyclist I know has tales of harassment and near-collision and the main reason people give for not cycling is fear of getting hurt, I'm not convinced light-hearted humour's quite the solution TBH
The good point about Top Gear doing a cycling piece however is that Clarkson and BBC have clearly realised that being anti-cyclist is inappropriate and out of touch... as more and more people take up cycling despite the negativity, the tide is clearly turning and the antis are realising they'll just look stupid if they carry on being anti... so we're definitely making progress even if it's not always obvious...
A new low for Top Gear in my opinion.
I just hope the TG relationship with cycling ends there - no good can come from this.
in 2007, 84% of cyclists stopped at red lights.
They should redo that study, things have changed, a lot.
You are assuming that CB and the others didn't do this and everything that was filmed was put in the final cut
Cycling has no reason to be on Top Gear, it's a motoring programme
We have threads on here taking the piss out of a potential war in Ukraine and we get het up about Top Gear???
We have threads on here taking the piss out of a potential war in Ukraine and we get het up about Top Gear???
We have threads on here about how to replace lead water pipes; get some perspective!
They should redo that study, things have changed, a lot
They should - the absence of official figures mean people fill the vacuum with personal anecdote - which more often than not will come from confirmation bias and availability bias ie: people seeing what they want to... which I assume you are, as much as the next person...
Oh and they should have talked about Bikeability and the fact it's often free of charge - their riding skills were exceptionally poor... the point about cycling in traffic is it gets a lot easier when you do it skilfully...
I thought it was a light entertainment show, according to the fans? 😀
I wish you'd make your minds up.
They should redo that study, things have changed, a lot.I seem to remember that there was a bit of a sleight of hand with that study. The red light people stopped led across 6 lanes of traffic, so it is hardly a surprise that the figures are so high.
I have got plenty of perspective - it's TG, what would anyone expect? JC to make a serious (or otherwise) case for cyclists??
I was a bit shocked at how distasteful it was to be honest. I dunno, I normally take TG with a pinch of salt, and I know I will see it though different eyes than your average person who doesn't spend a lot of time riding bikes, but it seemed a bit extreme.
surprised Boardman put his name to it to be honest.
Boardman didn't know the take on it. Obviously he knew it might not go the way he liked, but he did say the other day that he put his thoughts forward with the hope that it would be shown in a positive light.
No, thm.
I expected them to make a sneering, mealy mouthed 'comedy' routine with a nasty subtext.
Which they did.
[url= http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf ]This study here[/url]
Five separate junctions actually...at two separate times of the day... pretty comprehensive. I wish they'd also recorded the number of amber-gambling and RLJing cars for some perspective
Do you have a link to what Boardman thought. Why would anyone seriously expect TG to change the habits of a lifetime? Surely Boardman would be more savvy than that.
[i]Has the bloke behind may had a lobotomy? [/i]
Plus he was the only person in a shirt and tie.
Personally I only had eyes for the absolutely stunner behind Jezza.
THM. I dont watch Top Gear. JC is an utter ****, sometimes people like him can go too far in their daft ****tish ways. Maybe tonights show was an example of this in some peoples eyes. Saying its Top Gear and shouldnt be taken seriously is missing the point, some things just are serious.
Having said that I didnt see it 😉
Do you have a link to what Boardman thought.
Can't remember where it was now. Might have been road.cc. He didn't say much, just that he couldn't really comment because he hadn't seen it, didn't know how they would cut it, expected that it might not be in a glowing light, but thought it was worth a try. Which sounds a fair plan to me. It's a big audience, so worth a punt.
AAY. Strip away the (attempted) humour, the point about RLJ (whatever the stats) was worth making alone. The issue is serious (personal experience but with cars not bike) so I am not belittling safety. Sometimes absurdity is a good path to a result.
They should - the absence of official figures mean people fill the vacuum with personal anecdote - which more often than not will come from confirmation bias and availability bias ie: people seeing what they want to... which I assume you are, as much as the next person...
I've ridden the streets of London almost every day for 7 years. There are probably more than 30 sets of lights on the route I take and it's popular with cyclists. I would bet my house on the fact that proportionately more cyclists RLJ than in 2007.
Cheers butcher. I hope Boardman is more savvy with his bike business!!!
I laughed
Do you think that there was a valid point in there about buses maybe, I. have found they are the biggest and most serious danger to me riding.And even if the rest was aload of rubbish maybe something good could be taken from that, I struggle to find much else to be positive about
It's an entertainment prog, lighten up. It was all done for (cheap) laughs, just like everything else TG does.
Those who get huffy miss the point completely. Waste of effort to preach on here about how horrendous it all is.
Good show really, cycling bit was both funny, a good piss take of cyclist, and got cycling issues more coverage on TV to a bigger audience than would otherwise be possible.
Nice Porsche too
I find buses are generally well driven and respectful to cyclists.
FD, totally agree, the Porsche is mind-blowing, first one that actually makes me want it. Thought the Beemer trying to off Jezzer was funny, he really looked shaken. Confirms my dislike of them, liked the Golf, though.
Aaron's drive in the RPC was damned impressive, too.
Aye, I liked the spin in the beemer. I'm no fan of Jezza but his car racing experience can't be criticised. It must have been scary spinning out at 120 in the wet and he was fairly calm throughout.
If you've ever been going backwards at over 100mph it's quite un-nerving, especially not knowing it the car will roll if a wheel digs in as it goes over the grass.......
(I've spun at over 160mph on a frozen lake, not my fault, but that's another long story.......)
The Porsche made me feel 8 years old again. A proper supercar that.
I found bits of it quite funny, bits of it were really too close to the bone to be funny (in fact, some of it was edging towards distasteful) and some of it was the same tired joke trotted out again (oh look, wearing all the labels on the clothes, not done that before have we...? 🙄 )
Programme was hilarious, Some people in this thread are a joke and hilarious. Win win 🙂
I was impressed that someone who looks frankly, as fat, jowly and unfit as Clarkson, could even pedal a bicycle for more than five minute without having a coronary. I kind of assumed that was the joke.
The rest of it was just predictable. I think I'd have found it more entertaining if they'd simply have gone for the cycling jugular as they perceive it, I kept waiting for the punchline, but it never came. Wasn't offended particularly, wasn't infuriated, just found it bland, lazy stuff.
I thought it was supposed to be entertainment, that's my gripe if anything.
Gota love it, some people on here are are so up there own ass to get so worked up about anything. The internet must be a curse for these poor souls. If only they new how to switch it of and shut TFUP. Take it for what it is
😉
Mangled bike combined with dead Londoners in the news = very bad taste. If they had any balls, they'd have shown a bombed London bus as a good reason not to travel by bus.
Now *THAT'S* bad taste.
Was worth it alone for the red or green learn the difference bit! 😆
Those who get huffy miss the point completely.
Not really. Humour is a powerful way to normalise behaviour. If you don't think cultural output can affect society then you need to think again.
You can't just dismiss anything by saying 'it's only supposed to be entertainment'. Yes, it is, and that's the issue.
I'm glad I don't have to have a pint with the majority of posters on here, as I'd probably stab myself in the eyes to lighten the mood.
100% of the people I do choose to have a pint/ride with wouldn't have taken offence at tonights TG, as they actually don't give a **** about getting het up about light entertainment.
Top Gear is one of the best programmes on TV. Jez is fantastic and his satire is sometimes brilliant. It's a total petrolhead programme and if you take your head out of your arse you might actually enjoy it. Bikes are ace, cars are ace. Vive la difference!
Top Gear is one of the best programmes on TV.
Some of it is good. Most of it is lazy derivative crap, the same jokes year after year dressed up different ways
I'm glad I don't have to have a pint with the majority of posters on here, as I'd probably stab myself in the eyes to lighten the mood.100% of the people I do choose to have a pint/ride with wouldn't have taken offence at tonights TG, as they actually don't give a **** about getting het up about light entertainment.
Top Gear is one of the best programmes on TV. Jez is fantastic and his satire is sometimes brilliant. It's a total petrolhead programme and if you take your head out of your arse you might actually enjoy it. Bikes are ace, cars are ace. Vive la difference!
Oh please have a pint with me?! Please? Pretty please???
You're not cool enough I think. He's very cool. So cool he doesn't care about things. Apart from not caring about things. He cares about not caring.
Some of it is good. Most of it is lazy derivative crap, the same jokes year after year dressed up different ways
Every now and then I catch an episode - and this pretty much sums it up for me. When it's good it can be very good, but an awful lot of it is just dull - does anyone really still find his Stig intro amusing these days, for example?
If it had been remotely witty, it would have been OK. It was just lazily written and thrown together and not funny. I was actually expecting something a bit more considered, given that it was filmed with the cyclist deaths in London very much on the agenda.
I liked a few of the other segments in the programme, but it's been a so-so series.
Has Boardman given his reaction yet? I'm reckoning that he was promised a little bit more by the producers to secure his involvement.
In response to all the hatred against Top gear, why have the cycling community never made their own TV programme to the same level
(And by same level, I don't mean that drivel that ITV4 put out when trying to cash in on the Olympics and Bradley Wigging)
oba Fatt - Member
In response to all the hatred against Top gear, why have the cycling community never made their own TV programme to the same level
This point has cropped up many a time. In short, it's primarily because there really isn't the market for it. Even with the vast numbers of people using bikes as transport, and the rapid rise in those numbers, cycling is still a tiny minority activity. Further to that, for the vast majority of people who have a bike, they don't see themselves as cyclists, just someone who rides a bike sometimes. STW is very much non-representative of the wider cycling community! 🙂
Also the problem is what they would cover which was one of the problems of the ITV4 show. Bike reviews were dumbed down (and almost always totally positive), in-depth stuff on specific disciplines bored people who aren't into that and so on. Top Gear is a generalist programme, not specialist. ITV tried to do the same for bikes but ended up pleasing nobody.
Top Gear is a generalist programme, not specialist
Indeed. Another point where a cycling show would always fail, IMHO.
Commuter/hybrid tests - No one 'serious' is interested.
Megabuck crabon fribe fredvagen tests - 'Cycling's just too expensive'
BMX articles - Cycling's for kids, etc.
Wheel sizes? Don't even start on that one!
There are too many niches within cycling, each of which is a tiny population to please.
If it had been remotely witty, it would have been OK. It was just lazily written and thrown together and not funny. I was actually expecting something a bit more considered, given that it was filmed with the cyclist deaths in London very much on the agenda.
I think it was probably toned down a bit, there did seem to be a lot of scope for obvious jokes which would have been bad taste. Maybe the script was written 12 months ago, and ammended after the deaths last year?
I don't think the average motorist* or petrol-head takes Clarkson as gospell, it was blindingly obvious when they were joking knowing they were wrong (red/green, ohh look aren't taxi drivers polite, etc). No ones going to go and quote that down the pub are they? And the number of rule-breaking cyclists is probably no higher than the number of rule breaking motorists.
And it ended on a positive, 'one less car' point. What did you expect, a 30minute section outlining every grievence ever leveled agaisnt people in cars by cyclists?
*of the outraged of tumbridge wells, frothing at the mouth, i pay road tax, variety
There are too many niches within cycling, each of which is a tiny population to please.
Ski sunday managed, and skiing's even more a minority sport. I think you could fill 30min with raceing news, and some tech and technique features. Even someone with only a passing interest might find Di2 an interesting idea (or disk brakes, or how carbon fibre frames are made, or how to jump a BMX, trackstand, switzerland squeeker etc).
Reviews of bikes rather than concepts would be a bit crap though, like cars, to 99% of cyclists a bikes a bike, trying to pick one based on someone elses preferences or requiremnts is pointless.
Well dispite my best effort to watch it last night I will now catch it tonight on BBC2 at 7pm...
And it ended on a positive, 'one less car' point. What did you expect, a 30minute section outlining every grievence ever leveled agaisnt people in cars by cyclists?
Which they fluffed with the 'give an inch' line, despite Hammond's intervention to correct it.
I wasn't expecting much, TBH, and they certainly delivered it. Unfortunately, they'd already done the 'race across London' format in a previous series, which would have been the best way to show why people cycle, and how it could be made safer.
Just had the feeling of something that wasn't particularly thought out or scripted well, more likely to have been rushed together on the spur of the moment after Clarkson's little twitter spat.
in 2007, 84% of cyclists stopped at red lights.
I.e. a huge 16% didn't and some of you are saying it's got worse. That's pretty poor. Imagine the chaos if 16% of drivers didn't stop at red lights.
I found Top Gear funny last night; had they attempted to make the cycling feature any more serious it would have been out of character with the show. I can appreciate some people's disappointment at a missed opportunity but I half-expected it to be worse for cyclists than it actually was. At least they delivered a "cyclists are alright" message.
^Good point about Ski Sunday though. I think they've done a tremendous job with that since Bell and the other one took over and to see something similar for mountain biking would be ace, especially if Rob Warner hosted it 🙂
Some of the comments on here are brilliant 🙂 It's TopGear! You wouldn't expect a cycling show to extol the benefits of driving a 4x4 around central London would you?
I was just hoping for either funny or helpful. Didn't get either. They could have had a lot more fun ripping the piss out of London cyclists.
Good point about Ski Sunday though. I think they've done a tremendous job with that since Bell and the other one took over
I suppose Ski Sunday was lucky to have had the weight of history behind it. Many happy evenings by the fire as a kid watching Klammer and listening to Vine! Also, it began as a sports show, not a 'lifestyle' type show as it's slightly morphing in to now. OK, so it's still all about the sport really, but Amy Williams pops up now and again, so that's all good!
Is there a market to watch a cycling version of Ski Sunday? If it was about racing, I'm really not sure. To do justice to a road race, you need to see how it all plays out. The TDF highlights are superb at this. You could do the same for the Spring Classics, but beyond that, I don't think enough people would want to watch it on TV. Especially not MTB racing, which looks rubbish on telly. Always has done. Now, if they could get some 4X on, and capitalise on the success of Ski/Board Cross....... 8)
Especially not MTB racing, which looks rubbish on telly
I respectfully - and strongly - disagree. Downhill mountain bike racing coverage just gets better and better. My SINGLE favourite bit of sporting footage EVER - the one that always gives me goose-bumps - is Danny Hart's World Champs winning run. Even family members who have no interest in cycling enjoy watching that one, no doubt helped by the commentary too 😆
CaptainFlashheart - MemberGood point about Ski Sunday though. I think they've done a tremendous job with that since Bell and the other one took over
I suppose Ski Sunday was lucky to have had the weight of history behind it. Many happy evenings by the fire as a kid watching Klammer and listening to Vine!
I liked the older format - I have little interest in the two presenters
(although my opinion of GB has changed massively since the Olympics - he was superb) - Just show us the sport!
The other show Ed & Graham did, High Altitude, was very good at what it did, so why not have have both?
Older sports coverage was much better in some respects - remember full rally stages with no tiresome interruptions?
Bliss.
Is there a market to watch a cycling version of Ski Sunday?
I really think there is, if it was done properly.
Especially not MTB racing, which looks rubbish on telly. Always has done. Now, if they could get some 4X on, and capitalise on the success of Ski/Board Cross.......
I thought the last Olympic XC races were fantastic - if the courses are properly designed to exploit the TV coverage & vice versa, then it can be great.
But yes, 4X would be superb.
After a month or so, every single kid in the playground would be hooked. 🙂
I have little interest in the two presenters
I think Bell adds a lot of value to Ski Sunday. His efforts at explaining why someone did a fast run, where they made a mistake etc make the whole experience of watching the racing much deeper and I get a lot more out of it.
I agree.
I think his commentaries are excellent.
It's the lifestyle/travelogue stuff that should be excised.
It's the lifestyle/travelogue stuff that should be excised.
I like that too. I prefer a more varied programme than "just" racing.
Anyway, way off topic for the TG lovers and haters 😆
I.e. a huge 16% didn't and some of you are saying it's got worse. That's pretty poor. Imagine the chaos if 16% of drivers didn't stop at red lights.
Seems standard practice for drivers to go through red lights nowadays. Generally at the lights without cameras there are usually about 2-3 cars which push through when the lights change.
I always thought that the old format of Ski Sunday would be a great Alan Partridge show, you could have Alan interviewing Bode Miller 🙂
'So Bode, where's doyle'
'eh?'
and imagine the commentary on the race runs 😀
I didn't see TG, I'm sure that even if there was an oblique point trying to be made it would have been lost - he's never going to point out that motorists have responsibilities to avoid accidents and not force their way past cyclists ('because they are in a car which is faster innit?') so the whole segment was probably counterproductive
Seems standard practice for drivers to go through red lights nowadays. Generally at the lights without cameras there are usually about 2-3 cars which push through when the lights change.
Ditto. I ride across Bristol everyday. I see more motor vehicles run red lights than cycles. Not defending either, but it isn't even sneaking through on amber, but full blown red light jumping.
traildog - MemberI.e. a huge 16% didn't and some of you are saying it's got worse. That's pretty poor. Imagine the chaos if 16% of drivers didn't stop at red lights.
Seems standard practice for drivers to go through red lights nowadays. Generally at the lights without cameras there are usually about 2-3 cars which push through when the lights change.
I've just got back from the school run. I have to cross a main road using a pedestrian crossing. I can guarantee that at least once a week at least one car will RLJ. So - anecdotally I know - if I go back and fore to the school every day 20% of my attempts to use that crossing will be endangered. I have counted up to 7 cars driving across the crossing while the green man is flashing.
Occasionally, when it's safe to do so I'll stand in the road, force them to stop and explain what they've done. I have never had one person admit that they've run a red light, they always claim it was green. Not even amber, green! And usually it's just foul language.
Anyway, back to arguing about a TV program because that's more important than the real world, eh?
Three pricks mostly enjoyed by dicks.
The car bits are sometimes good. That's why I watch.
Shame about the pricks though.
I have counted up to 7 cars driving across the crossing while the green man is flashing
Doesn't flashing green man coincide with flashing amber on the crossing? Meaning that drivers can proceed if the crossing is clear? It does on most crossings I know.
I may have phrased that badly, Molgrips. I'll try again. Up to 7 cars driving through the red light when the green man is beeping and allowing pedestrians to cross.
What i took from the piece.
Cyclists: maintain your bike so as it isnt dangerous, dont run red lights and dont get all high and mighty with car/bus/lorryists when it comes to the rules of the road, it's not cool being right and dead.
Carists: give cyclists more room.
All the other jokes etc were to make the article fit the show, so not suprising they are a little devisive.
Given thier brief was to improve safety/increase haromony on the roads, I reckon they did alright.
I watched it last night, thought the Porker was "Amazeballs" 😀
+1 - want want want want!I watched it last night, thought the Porker was "Amazeballs"
Also, some of the video editing in Top Gear now is truly stunning.
Helpfully timed for the night before the start of the Big Pedal, a Sustrans campaign running from 3rd-14th March to encourage children to pedal/scoot to school.
id didnt see it, I have nothing to add, however
[img] 
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What i took from the piece.Cyclists: maintain your bike so as it isnt dangerous, dont run red lights and dont get all high and mighty with car/bus/lorryists when it comes to the rules of the road, it's not cool being right and dead.
Carists: give cyclists more room.
All the other jokes etc were to make the article fit the show, so not suprising they are a little devisive.
Given thier brief was to improve safety/increase harmony on the roads, I reckon they did alright.
^^This.
In typical Top Gear style, it was a humourous piece about a serious issue, presented in a certain tongue in cheek way. Stop getting all indignant about it.
And to keep it rolling today we have an understandable point of view...
http://road.cc/content/news/112817-cyclist’s-widow-tells-top-gear’s-jeremy-clarkson-look-me-eye
Not sure if its a proper link so you know what to do.
And to keep it rolling today we have an understandable point of view...http://road.cc/content/news/112817-cyclist’s-widow-tells-top-gear’s-jeremy-clarkson-look-me-eye
Not sure if its a proper link so you know what to do.
I can understand that if you lost someone in a cycling accident you may of been offended, but if we never air anything that any particular person may find upsetting you'd never air anything on tv at all.
the more this drags on, the more I think that they should just leave cycling alone. it has no place on Top Gear and the piece just stemmed from Clarkson being a bellend on Twitter and someone deciding to rectify the issue with a cycling piece.