PCP ending, buy car or go electric?

€200+/month less over 3 years covers at least €7000 of depreciation, and I think as EV battery recycling and replacement costs reduce then 2nd hand prices will steady out. Not that you'd be needing any of that after only 3 years.

If you go electric then lease it. The second hand values of EVs are pitiful thanks to uncertainty and costs of replacement batteries 

chrismacFull Member<br />If you go electric then lease it. The second hand values of EVs are pitiful thanks to uncertainty and costs of replacement batteries <br /><br />

leasing is not an option here. Limited availability and at a glance is around €700 a month!!

How do the numbers work if you let some else take the hit on the initial big depreciation on the EV? Buy a 2 year old one, and even if you have to take a loan then I bet the monthly cost would be lower than PCP and you’d actually own something at the end of the loan period. Battery longevity worries are totally overblown based off very early EVs, and anything you buy probably has a 8-10yr warranty on the battery anyway.

The second hand values of EVs are pitiful

Are they? Please show your working.

I could have virtually no Equity in the car in 3 years. Will people be buying used EVs?

Does that really matter? You're buying it to drive not as an investment. I assume.youre not UK - what are EV tariffs like for electricity? I save nearly £1000 a year on commuting miles, which is half the cost of the car loan and will offset any difference in depreciation.

Do you have any spare cash? Could you pay the balloon then sell privately? In fact with my last car (A6 estate diesel) I sold via motorway, who paid off the finance & gave me the balance? Then buy the new EV.

Cupra Born is considered vv nice, btw.

Forget the “the battery’s will have to be replaced *” bollocks you hear from the Facebook experts. Most have an 8 year warranty anyway, and realistically, so what if it’s depleted to 75-80% in years to come. Unless you are doing 2-300 miles a day then it’s really not an issue.
I’ve got some 5ah tool batteries that are over 10 years old and they still power the tools I’m using adequately.

*Chances are it would have spontaneously burst into flames by then anyway 😉
(That’s the EV bullshit bingo filled for the day 😂)

Buy it, sell at a profit then lease an EV.

Thanks for responses. As mentioned leasing is not really a viable option here. The dealer seems to be giving me top whack for my car so don’t think much to be gained in buying then selling current car hence offering me the EV for €299p/m. Hoping to take my wife to see the EV during the week and take it from there. She likes the current car so may not sign of the EV, but does like the sound of the savings on offer.

Are they? Please show your working

Tesla model 3 2020 list price £50k. Now £28k with only 20,000 miles in auto trader. That’s alot of depreciation

bmw ix3 list £70k in 2021 now 28k less than 3 years later

They're pitiful in the UK as you drive on the wrong side of the road and you can't resell to cheaper countries.  In sunny Norway they have very low depreciation as even a 5 year old car has a significant value somewhere, and leccy tends to be depreciate less than ICE as they're what most people buy (because difference in running costs)

2020 BMW 5 series diesel ca £45K new on Autotrader - 28K miles, 23K

I don't think depreciation is that much higher if at all than vs equivalent exec level cars.

How much does a car depreciate per year?<br />Cars start to depreciate the moment they are sold and driven away from the forecourt. Although depreciation rates vary depending on the car’s type, make and model, it will typically lose anything from 15-35% of its initial value in the first year – and up to 50% over the first three years.

https://www.webuyanycar.com/car-valuation/car-value-after-3-years/#:~:text=Cars%20start%20to%20depreciate%20the,over%20the%20first%20three%20years.

bmw ix3 list £70k in 2021 now 28k less than 3 years later

iX3 bought Dec21 for £62k
Sold though Carwow Nov 23 for £39k
Current WBAC offer £33k
Dealer has it for sale at £41.5k

revs1972 there are loads of BMW 3 series on auto trader at same depreciation as model 3 like for like.

Audi are offering me a fully loaded Nov 21 Audi RS GT for £73k with 7k miles. Retails at £140k but it won’t have gone for sticker. Still massive deprecation though so seriously thinking about used. Battery replacement not an issue for me at that age.

I can get an EV grant of €3500 plus a tax rebate of €2000. These can only be claimed on new cars and not used so I guess it softens the big depreciation.

If you like it just pay the balloon and run it into the ground, as it's a diesel you'd presume they will eventually offer a scrappage scheme in years to come so you'll get something back out of it at the end?

Tesla model 3 2020 list price £50k. Now £28k with only 20,000 miles in auto trader. That’s alot of depreciation

Well they did reduce the price of the new ones during that period.  But choose another £50k diesel and compare.

OP. I’d ditch the diesel and go electric. So much nicer to drive.

if I remember correctly PCP carries 3 options: give it back; buy it; trade it in?

When I traded my PCP Model S in for a PCP Model Y in 2022 I seemed to get a surprisingly big trade in value. YMMV.

What is a ‘service pack’ for the Cupra?

As has been said, cars aren’t investments. In the unlikely event it’s worthless in 3 years so what? Dealers will likely offer something for it to lure you into another deal.

OP - what type of driving do you do?

Also is there option to buy on the lease? Some allow some don’t. I’d imagine at £300pm it’s about them selling units to get sales figures so they will probably want to keep the car after

andy4d
Full Member
I can get an EV grant of €3500 plus a tax rebate of €2000. These can only be claimed on new cars and not used so I guess it softens the big depreciation.

If my understanding of markets in general and the car market in particular is correct, purchase incentives are a cause of additional depreciation.

8n your shoes, I'd probably be looking to off load the diesel. Rightly or wrongly, they are fast becoming the "bad" guys and in the UK, more and come cities are trying for clean air zones.

I'm pro EV and drive one for work. However, pay careful attention to your use case. At the moment, due to the cold, I'm seeing between 3 and 3.3 miles per kW on motorway runs at 65-70mph. I use RC fast chargers at 79p per kW. Fule per mile, the wife's 1.4 petrol Touran is cheaper.

As I'm charging publicly, charging is dead time, I'm stuck at services while it happens. Look closely at charging speed and the charging curve. Currently, I'm lucky if I see 40kW when charging. Best charging speeds are between 20% and 80% which also means that of the 200 mile battery range, my useful range is 120 miles between charges.

Bottom line, to travel 120 miles, I have to sit there for almost an hour waiting to charge. Basically, two hours in, one hour off.

It's all about your use case but often, charging speed and curve are more important than range.

Also the infrastructure of the charge points is pretty poor, it’s getting better but not quick enough for how many electric cars are on the road, I’ve had electric over 4 yrs now, and 4 year ago you could drive into the services and 99% of the time you get to plug into the 1 charge point, most of the time now when you drive into services someone is already there so you have to wait. Unless there are more than 1 charge point,  which I’d say is about 1 in 10 services that have the row of about 10 charge points, I currently have a project in Bristol (from Huddersfield) that I travel once a week, just for the day and I waste around 2.5 hrs in the day charging.

Do you need a new car or will a nearly new one be acceptable ? What equity do you have in your Seat, I know you've mentioned what you owe and what they sell for....but what have you been offered? I know you're not in the UK but whereabouts in Europe? What annual mileage do you do?
I presume there's a deposit to pay with the Born, plus the €299 a month...what happens at the 3 yr point? You may have paid €15k by then, hand it back?

I ask all this as I am in a similar position (minus the working bit). I live in France, Seat Ateca petrol and looking at a nearly new EV simply as we are getting solar installed and don't long journeys in the car so an EV with free charging seems perfect. But I'd rather sink c€20k into an 18mth old Leaf than €40k in a new Born

Best charging speeds are between 20% and 80% which also means that of the 200 mile battery range, my useful range is 120 miles between charges.

But as you say, use-case specific.

What car is charging at 40kW?

What car is charging at 40kW?

MG5, I consider it's doing well at this time of year if I see 40kW.

I had a whole 1250kVA charging site to myself last week and only got 37kW.

My only concern with the Cupra Born would be the infotainment software. If the base software is anything like the ID3's then I'd walk away. My ID3 drives me mad, half the time I have to drive to work in silence. I had the 3.1 software update installed in November and It's still just as bad. Does anyone know if it's the same base software across VW, seat and skoda??

Bottom line, to travel 120 miles, I have to sit there for almost an hour waiting to charge. Basically, two hours in, one hour off.

this is so car specific though. In current weather my i4 will go 280 miles on a charge, and will charge on a rapid charger from 20% to 80% in around 25 mins. That said all my routine charging is at home, overnight, at 7.5p per kW, which works out about £2 per 100 miles of use.

Bottom line, to travel 120 miles, I have to sit there for almost an hour waiting to charge. Basically, two hours in, one hour off.

Whereas I drove 400 miles from Scotland on Friday and didn’t spend more than 30 minutes charging. Not all EVs are the same.

Also the infrastructure of the charge points is pretty poor, it’s getting better but not quick enough for how many electric cars are on the road, I’ve had electric over 4 yrs now, and 4 year ago you could drive into the services and 99% of the time you get to plug into the 1 charge point, most of the time now when you drive into services someone is already there so you have to wait.

Off-motorway locations are far better. I tend to use MFG or Ionity sites, just off motorways. Always have a minimum of 6 stalls, most are 8 and 12-16 is becoming the norm. I’ve never had to wait and detours have been extremely minor.

Thanks for the honest description of what a 200 mile range equates to in practice @Onzadog. The killer for me would be something like the recent trip to visit the in-laws at Christmas. It’s just over 500 miles door to do and usually done with 2-4 people, two dogs and lots of baggage. We’ve got use to doing it in around 11 hours door-to-door (9.5 hours driving and 1.5 hours of stops to refuel us and the car and give the dogs a leg stretch). Of course Christmas is a crazy time  with everyone on the move and I did notice that the chargers at the service stations all seemed to be occupied. Having to stop for even 30-40 minutes every 120-150 miles would make for a much longer journey.

I guess it’s just a change in attitude really. Maybe we’d start driving through the night to avoid busy times or something and it is a bit daft to base any buying decision on something you only do one or two times a year (could just rent an ICE car, for example) but it is something that makes me reluctant to make the switch if I’m honest.

Whereas I drove 400 miles from Scotland on Friday and didn’t spend more than 30 minutes charging. Not all EVs are the same

Couldn't agree more. Not for one second am I suggesting they are all the same. What I am saying is it's important to consider individual use case and the spec if the car. It's also worth checking real world user data for the car rather than expecting manufacturer lab results to apply all the time.

And while everyone is focused on range, certainly at the budget end of the market, charging speed and curve can play a much bigger part.

If my car reliably charged at 4 times the speed, 150kW, I wouldn't have issue with the range.

@prettygreenparrot the service plan is brake fluid/pollen filter/brake pads/tyres/wipers and a wash🤣

@dave661350 it doesn’t have to be a new car but I would just keep what I have rather than get an unknown used car. At this stage I am not too sure what I have been offered for mine as I was only having a speculative look at the dealers (was just looking at the cost to change) and will go into the detail if I am going to get the Born but looking at the figures it seems to work out at about €7k or €8k in equity (so maybe €22.5k/23.5k).  I am in Ireland and cover about 20,000km a year and have a commute of 70km. I do the odd 400km drive for meetings and a long drive to Scotland once a year so would need to plan for that.

@B.A.Nana I was looking at reviews and they seem to say it is a similar system to the ID3 but works better, not great, but better.

My wife seems to of given up helping me decide with the, “you decide as I can’t be bothered, just don’t get a red or white one” comment last night. She has her own car so doesn’t care. That’s no help to me as I know if I do get it and she doesn’t like it I will have to listen to her go on about it every time she gets in it for the next 3 years🙄

If you want a car that goes a long way with minimal charging time then the mg is a poor choice. 800v architecture is what you need, Porsche managed to drive all the way across America (in optimal conditions) with only 2 and a half hours of stops, most decent electric cars could do 500 miles with well under an hour stationary, the better ones will only need 30 mins

But a 93kwh Porsche is only €150k plus here. Sure, I’ll get one for my wife too 🤣.

I don’t think I am their target audience.

Are you absolutely wed to Seat?
The Cupra Born doesn't appear to be the cheapest option for a new EV (admittedly based on the UK). Does it have to be a one car solution? Could you consider having a cheap (used) ICE car just for those less frequent longer journeys? (I know not everyone have a driveway and the desire to pay 2 lots on insurance/VED/MOT etc).
Could you consider other makes/models and/or approved used?

I still think the best use case for an EV is where you have frequent short journeys to do, and access to a charger at home, battery life is less of a worry (new or used) when you drive ~50miles max in a single day and bung it on charge overnight.

The above seems obvious but I know people with more substantial commutes, seriously mulling a new EV because of ULEZ fears (despite not being in a current or planned ULEZ zone?) and ignoring the option of, say a petrol hybrid or (God forbid) running a decade old diesel for motorway mileage and spending more on an EV that will probably see more frequent journeys but fewer miles...

Either way I'd be looking to get out of the diesel while it's got some recoverable value that can help with financing whatever comes next, the majority of cars only get older and depreciate.

If you're retiring soon I'd say dive in and enjoy an EV for a few years.

You can afford to regret it now and it'll help you make a sensible longer term option in semi-retirement when the right decision is more important

Just my opinion

But a 93kwh Porsche is only €150k plus here. Sure, I’ll get one for my wife too 🤣.

I don’t think I am their target audience.

You may not be, but kia/Hyundai have 800v charging and will go nearly 700 miles in 10 hours, not far off what Petrol cars can do..

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a44270422/2023-ev-of-the-year-contenders-tested-range-10-hours/

If rather than got a new diesel rather than EV, what would the numbers look like?

Like you I'm looking at retiring in a couple/few years and faced an ending PCP (and plenty of equity) last year.

Decided that I'll worry about what I'll do car-wise when I've retired, therefore just paid the balloon and kept my diesel.

Having to stop for even 30-40 minutes every 120-150 miles would make for a much longer journey.

That's entry-level EV sort of numbers.  I would do that in my Leaf.  As said, get something with better charging (e.g. an Ioniq 5) and I'm sure you'd easily be able to do the 500 mile trip with the same stoppage time.  It does mean spending a bit more though, say £25k.

I have friends who are regularly doing 400 mile trips, both for work and family, they have two VW iD4s.

Just to wrap this thread up I decided to dip my toe in the electric market and go for the Cupra born. Pick it up in a few weeks. Now I can start asking all my questions in the electric car thread👍