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I booked a campsite in France during February this year for a stay on July/Aug. I paid a deposit via an international bank transfer.
When I came to leave the campsite and settle my bill, it transpired that I had paid the deposit (194 euro) to the previous owner, obviously in error. I contacted the sending bank (Revolut - I know, not a Bank), but they are unable to recall an International transfer at any point, so my only option was to contact the payee.
It took a little bit of digging to get his contact details, but I now have both email and mobile number. I have sent him an explanation of the situation, and proof of the transfer via email, politely requesting that he returns the funds sent in error, and a text, along with a phonecall, but he is not answering.
Due to the magic of RCS I can see that he has both received and read my text, which points straight to the email, but after 2 weeks I have received no response. I can't see whether he has read my email, but it has not bounced, and it is linked to his current businesses.
I appreciate that this is entirely my fault, but any "next step" tips?
I am minded that people often act differently if they know that there are eyes on them. To this end I plan to send another email, copying in the current campsite owner (who is local, and supportive), the bank branch manager of the account holder, and the Mairie (who actually supplied the contact email address). I will ask him to let me know if I have the wrong person, and if I have I'll stop pursuing him. With other eyes-on, he'll either have to lie, or be seen to continue to avoid me.
I suppose I’m minded to ask how you had the a/c details to transfer the money? Were the wrong details on the website or did ownership transfer between deposit and payment in full?
(just curious - I think you’ve done the right thing - and you’ll have to rely on guilt/shame 😬)
I used the same payment details from the previous year. Totally my fault.
You may have to suck this one up I'm afraid. Who gave you the bank account details to send the deposit to?
edit:
I used the same payment details from the previous year. Totally my fault
Oh.
What sausage for French lawns?
Manet was years ahead of you..... I think in Dejeuner Sur L'herbe there was a suggestion of an anticipated game of "cacher le saucisson"
You're entirely reliant on the good will of the person you sent the money to, and they only thing to can do is chase him.
Given it was your mistake in the first place, I think copying in all those people is a bit of a dick move to be honest.
Given it was your mistake in the first place, I think copying in all those people is a bit of a dick move to be honest.
Conversely I think it's perfectly reasonable to do this. He's received the money in error, knows about it, and is now staying silent because there is nothing you can do.
Had he replied and said something along the lines of "it was a long time ago, I've spent it, and I'm a poor pensioner who will have to go about heating now" then I'd be more sympathetic. He's just a knob.
Copy in the mayor as well.
but they are unable to recall an International transfer at any point,
Do you mean they have no record of it, or that they can't undo the payment?
He's received the money in error, knows about it, and is now staying silent because there is nothing you can do.
Agreed, but it's an issue between two people, him and TroutWrestler. It's no-one else's business.
Do you mean they have no record of it, or that they can't undo the payment?
International payments can't be reversed. It's the electronic equivalent of putting cash in an envelope and posting it to an address abroad - if you later found out you'd put the wrong address on the envelope, you wouldn't expect Royal Mail to be able to get your envelope back.
Due to the magic of RCS I can see that he has both received and read my text, which points straight to the email, but after 2 weeks I have received no response.
To give this person the benifit of doubt, just because they have tapped something that marks it as read doesn't mean they have actually read the contents of the text. The amount of spam flying about it could easily be tap and ignore/file in the bin.
Even if he has read it, maybe somebody moaning about a couple of hundred euros isn't high on his priority list. 2 weeks isn't very long either, August is holiday time. No way I'd be replying to anything like that if I was busy doing other stuff. Maybe a polite reminder in a couple more weeks would be more appropriate.
Given it was your mistake in the first place, I think copying in all those people is a bit of a dick move to be honest.
Conversely I think it's perfectly reasonable to do this. He's received the money in error, knows about it, and is now staying silent because there is nothing you can do.
Had he replied and said something along the lines of "it was a long time ago, I've spent it, and I'm a poor pensioner who will have to go about heating now" then I'd be more sympathetic. He's just a knob.
Copy in the mayor as well.
my first inclination on receiving a message saying “we sent you money by mistake, please refund us” is that it is a Scam. If it’s international - even more so.
im not sure I’d completely let the new owner off the hook either - was it obvious to returning customers that there was a change of ownership? Was it obvious the bank accounts were not tied to the property/business? Was there a suitable “please note our bank account details have changed” message prominently on the invoice etc? Why if they hadn’t received an expected deposit had they not chased it up/cancelled the booking? I’m not saying they are to blame and should refund you but they, being local and with some sort of business arrangement with the old owner may have some leverage.
however if I had his number to text him then I could use the old school approach of telephoning him.
If i was the recipient of the funds I would be far more likely to respond to a polite ask I think. I would be likely I think to dig my heels in if someone did the name and shame and copied in all those people.
dunno for sure as I have not been in the situation
On the other hand as the recipient has been asked to refund and has blanked the OP. Naming and shaming may be the only recompense the OP gets.
The recipient can either reply with excuse for delay and refund OP or those copied in can know he is a thief.
Naming & shaming seems a bit harsh when it was you that made the mistake, I'd go with picking up the phone & talking to the recipient myself.
It isn't like this is zero effort for the recipient though is it. Ascertain that this is a genuine request. Trawl through a business bank account with potentially thousands of transactions. Maybe they have wound the company up, submitted final details to tax authorities and closed their business account. If the account is still open there isn't a nice button on your account that says return funds to sender - they will need to set up an international funds transfer themselves, almost certainly with fees associated. All for a small amount for a business you are no longer running.
or those copied in can know he is a thief
Not a thief as he was given the money.... he's done nothing wrong.
however if I had his number to text him then I could use the old school approach of telephoning him.
It takes less than a second to block a number from calling or sending messages.
Have you sent another payment to the new owner yet?
If not, maybe a 'sorry, my mistake, but can you pass these funds over to the new guy please' message would be best, maybe cc the new guy so he can chase him if required. Presumably they know each other and have/had some sort of arrangement for sorting things out after the sale of the business. Also saves the recipient a lot of agro with international payments etc.
honestly if I got a random payment straight into my account and then a request for a refund I'd smell a rat and likely delete/block all correspondence. Very standard scam to overpay and ask for a refund, following which the original payment is clawed back. Friend of a friend almost fell for this recently.
There are about 3 different warnings on my banking app if i use any of the "unreversible" money transfer options. Telling me so, and recommending a test transfer first etc. As above, it's basically a digital cash transfer.but they are unable to recall an International transfer at any point,
Do you mean they have no record of it, or that they can't undo the payment?
It does seem to have worked, in that I received a response almost immediately this morning.
I fully accept that a) it was totally my mistake, and b) it could well appear to be a scam.
I also accept that when the amount originally landed in his account, he may well have had no way to contact me.
My original email did include all the details of the original transaction, including the payment reference and the date of the transaction, along with copies of the transaction records from the bank - although these could have been elaborate fakes. I also accept that it is hassle for the payee to sort it. However, I would want to return any monies paid into my account in error, and I like to think that most* people would be like-minded.
It probably also cost him money as international transfers are rarely free- so very kind of him to return it
It does seem to have worked, in that I received a response almost immediately this morning.
So you did the Dick move anyway, even after the balance of advice above? 🙄
I'd stay away from the place for the foreseeable.
Did you email in French or English? Im afraid I think you’re unlikely to see your money back. I would recommend going to his door and having a chat. But what would be very expensive, and would require workable French. And tbh, I find it only 50/50 that it would work, even after that.
(But by the way, it sounds like a very easy mistake to make, and im sure I'd have done the same thing).
For clarity, the Mairie already know about the situation. They gave me his email address. From that I was able to get his mobile number (google, eh?).
The current owner already knew, and had being trying to contact him. They knew at the point I paid.
I had emailed the bank already at the start of August, requesting that they pass on my contact details to him, but all I had received was auto-replies. I obviously understand that the bank can't share a client's details but did hope they could pass my details to him.
I did email in French, but used Google translate to assist as my grammar is still GCSE B level...
So you did the Dick move anyway, even after the balance of advice above? 🙄
Err, no. I had already sent it by the time Dick was brought into it.
I'd stay away from the place for the foreseeable.
Eh?
Eh?
After copying the world into the email of shame I wouldn't be going back to the area. Personally, I'd be too embarrassed.
Ok, I'd suggest our shame thresholds are different, and probably our definitions of "the world", but each to their own.
In other news, the money was transferred back into my account this morning. I'll probably use it to book the same campsite for next year, after checking the payment details VERY carefully...
Good result. Some people need to be shamed into doing the right thing.
^ 100% this
Yes, already done.
Monsieur, Le virement est bien arrivé sur mon compte. Merci beaucoup et veuillez accepter mes plus sincères excuses pour la gêne occasionnée. Cordialement, Troutwrestler
Good result, well done.
Surely the 'Thank You' letter should be signed off by Lutteur de Truites, n'est-çe pas ? 😀