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If I understand correctly the £1000 allowance only applies to trading, ie, not to normal person “selling some stuff” but only to intentional profitmaking stuff.
My understanding - the £1000 is there to allow for 'hobby' businesses, etc., If it's a main business then it's all declarable. If it's a shit main business ( 😉 ) where you only make a tiny profit <£1000 then you still have to do accounts even if there's no tax payable on it. Below £1000, eg: doing a bit of side tuition or being paid for fixing someone's bike for them (all the focus seems to be on buyng / selling but there are more types of business than this) then it's tax free up to that £1000, even if your main income puts you into tax.
But even then, you could be required to provide documentation, even below that level. Unlikely given the short staff at HMRC but technically you could.
That Twitter thread is absolutely horrendous!
They really do seem to actively relish making the lives of poor people as difficult as possible
I'm still a bit unclear on what it legally means... not that it affects me at all, but it does stink of yet more poorly thought out commands from the ivory tower of westminster to pass an admin burden onto more normal people.
I mean, If I buy a shipping containers worth, of, I dunno, ballet shoes from china at £2 per unit, and flog them on ebay for £8 per unit, that's very clearly a taxable business acitivity.
I's just very unclear to me where the line is drawn (legally speaking) when you get into the nitty-gritty of it.
I’m still a bit unclear on what it legally means… not that it affects me at all, but it does stink of yet more poorly thought out commands from the ivory tower of westminster to pass an admin burden onto more normal people.
Going back to my earlier post on this. Nothing has actually changed in respect of the hobby seller. There's always* been this allowance, there's always been the requirement to keep appropriate records, there's always been the requirement to declare above this in a self assessment, and there's always been the ability of HMRC to ask UK companies to provide records to support their own investigations.
* as in these bits aren't new. IDK when they were actually brought in, don't get pedantic on always, I doubt they were in force since the dawn of taxation.
The difference is now that there an international agreement that OECD countries can ask for records from companies in other OECD countries rather than just nationally (reflecting the international set ups of online platforms) so HMRC can now ask for records from eBay, Vinted, AirBNB, etc.
The obligation on the individual was always there, it's not new. It just is harder to evade now, because HMRC can more easily check up on who should be doing returns but maybe isn't. And as said, won't affect true hobby sellers but if it 'catches' those that are actually running dropshipping or small businesses and not paying their dues, why's that bad?
you are not expecting this government to consider the details are you ?
fair few on this thread and the wider web rushing to bash HMRC seem to be quite 'detail-lite' tbf
Yes sorry, the point behind my post of that twitter thread, is that the rules are what they are. Its worth anyone selling stuff to acquaint themselves with the rules by spending a couple of hours going through the HMRC website to understand the really quite simple rules. That post shows that many don't. I personally wish I had done it sooner.
People can then decide whether the rules really apply to themselves or whether their level of activity is actually too small to bother.
+1 for Andy's post immediately above; 'ignorance of the law is no defence'.
For the vast majority of sellers on various platforms the announcement will be of zero relevance.
There is quite a market in auction houses selling pallets of customer returns from John Lewis and Amazon, amongst others which are of interest to traders
The auction house used by JL also, occasionally, list container loads which are explicitly directed at traders.
HMRC may well be active in this area but, if not, it probably won't be long before they are.
Will there be a shift in sellers moving to FB marketplace?
I posted a link to a BBC article a while back which pointed out that it's not just ebay but a range of activities including renting through Airbnb.
I suspect that if you run a YouTube channel or website, for example that generates income through ads, you'll also be expected to pay your tax if you make sufficient profit.
The obligation on the individual was always there, it’s not new. It just is harder to evade now, because HMRC can more easily check up on who should be doing returns but maybe isn’t.
The difference is I have never evaded anything but now I may flag up in some data as a person who has made a few thousand pounds in a year from eBay sales. If, and a big if, the HRMC trigger a letter to me that I have to respond to with evidence I will be buggered and just have to pay the 60% tax.
Made a few thousand or turned over a few thousand? If you made a few thousand in profit and haven't thus far declared / paid tax on, why isn't that evading (even if not wilfully, you still wouldn't have paid the right amount)
[edit] evaded sounds criminal, I don't mean that, I mean 'not paid your full liability'
And start collecting records now, then, at least to be able to justify what you are liable for ongoing (if anything).
Why 60% ?
If, and a big if, the HRMC trigger a letter to me that I have to respond to with evidence I will be buggered and just have to pay the 60% tax.
The same position you would have been in before this announcement, as theotherjonv is consistently pointing out.
Don't remember all this fuss when we did a data sweep and targetted the adult industry.....
Don’t remember all this fuss when we did a data sweep and targetted the adult industry….
That must have been revealing with a fair few ups and downs...
That must have been revealing with a fair few ups and downs…
A colleague involved in the enquiries described it as "educational" - tools of the trade took on a whole new meaning.
A cycling friend who got hit with £30k of additional tax was less impressed....
A cycling friend who got hit with £30k of additional tax was less impressed….
You could start a whole new thread on that "Cycling in the adult industry". whoever says HMRC are dull have it so wrong....
£30k?? what on earth happened there? In general terms & asking for a friend obvs...
payable in one go, or were they able to make several deposits
If desired, we could just have a corporate 'offshoring' tax whereby any money which leaves the country is taxed. E.g. eBay sends £500m to Switzerland + gets a 20% tax on it.
What about the implications for making a loss on a sale that @WorldClassAccident raises ?
That’s a lot more interesting (for the average punter not running an eBay business) - thread is TLDR if someone responded to it but I didn’t notice. So if an item sold at a loss is that an income tax loss or capital gain offset elsewhere in your tax return?
TLDR? Summary: Read the detail
Similarly to respected colleague MCTD above, I don't remember hearing wails of anguish from forum writers when we were last running a task force tackling the profits from modern slavery and prostitution.
We have limited resources and if this thread is anything to go by, the mere release of the information that we intend to mine the data from selling platforms, would seem to have provoked discussion and improved awareness of the tax rules around self employed trading.
Job done.. in a very resource effective way.
and ignore the really big players and non-doms?
The whole point of a non-dom is they are not domiciled in the UK for tax purposes....
The £1000 is a true threshold for reporting though….. anyone *making* more than £1000 should be declaring it anyway, via normal SA tax. If you aren’t then you are not declaring earnings truthfully and might not be paying the right tax
Exactly.
There's a lot of overthinking going on here.
HMRC just playing catch up to the gig economy and probably a whole bunch of traders who don't pay tax because they enjoy hiding behind eBay/AirbNb etc.
If you're not trading - i.e buying to sell something on for a profit, I wouldn't lose much sleep.
Business sellers acting as private individuals is what they're looking at.
That's kind of the point. As it stands, offshoring wealth from the UK is easily untaxable.
I’s just very unclear to me where the line is drawn (legally speaking) when you get into the nitty-gritty of it
All self-assessment is like that. You have to check the examples on the HMRC website.
I don't reckon it's that hard to interpret; you're either deliberately trading or just selling stuff you owned without the intention when you bought it.
If you're back yard looks like Evans with stocks of products then you're going to have to explain yourself if you're not declaring as such.
It's night and day mostly.
@highlandman catch more flys with honey hun. I dont recall you posting your experiences tracking down modern slavery etc. I would have been,and now congratulate you for your work here. Thankyou
Personally no issue here. I want to conform. If I had one small observation it would be I spent a fair bit of time trawling through a very functional, but page and navigational heavy HMRC website to understand what I needed to do. What MCTD does is add a bit of light hearted human touch to that painful process, so I think there might be human beings behind all this and not just heavy procedural process with the crunch of heavy penalties.
Would it be a resource effective use of your time to agree with that?
This all happened to Crypto a while back - Coinbase info got turned over to HMRC.
There's humans in the organisation, right enough. It's generally a thankless place to work, so it's good to come across the comments of @Andy above. Specific experiences though are not a subject that we can talk about. Probably just as well as these can be a pretty tough gig; I suspect that most folk outwith the relevant parts of the Department have very little concept of where casework can sometimes take us.
Thanks Highlandman. I am Scots so appreciate the dour sometimes. Just do what you can to make it painless please. Also, aside from the bay data thing, it seems right now the civil service are an easy punchbag and every political "new idea" makes life harder not easier. So kind comments are appreciated all the more. On the ebay collecting data, I really dont have a problem.
So the advice to eBay traders is 'just setup a company in the British Virgin Islands'
that's always been the advice, you're just aware of it now thanks to this thread.
Tax? what tax?
None of that nasty import tax for French wine, what, what what...
Cash is king
I thought it was Charlie?
Is he flogging stuff on ebay?
The same position you would have been in before this announcement, as theotherjonv is consistently pointing out.
And as I am consistently posting out, no it is not the same as before the announcement. I am NOT making any profit from eBay sales so don't have to declare anything. IF the HMRC automated process triggers a letter based on my sales amount/number of sales then I will have to respond to it.
Before the announcement I had nothing to respond to as had nothing to declare but now I may have to spend hours trying to prove each item was not profitable and for things like say an old chest of drawers I sold recently (which I bought 10 years ago) I will have no receipt to prove what I paid. As the HMRC will not care about that I will just have to pay the 60% tax won"t I.
just record what you put there. 10 yo Ikea chest of drawers, est value at purchase £150 or whatever, sold for £50, no profit.
You are over dramatising as if they'll be all over you because you don't have a receipt where in reality it'll be someone reasonable like MCTD that would almost certainly say 'yep, no profit here.....'
Before the announcement I had nothing to respond to as had nothing to declare
but technically should still have been able to 'prove' there was nothing to declare.
And I'll ask again, why will you have to pay 60% tax. It's a personal tax matter, UK top tax band is 45% ?
Before the announcement I had nothing to respond to as had nothing to declare but now I may have to spend hours trying to prove each item was not profitable and for things like say an old chest of drawers I sold recently (which I bought 10 years ago) I will have no receipt to prove what I paid. As the HMRC will not care about that I will just have to pay the 60% tax won”t I.
HMRC could have started an investigation on you without this data sweep, either due to a tip off, or another programme or even a random check.
It's not my corner of the agency, so I've no idea what thresholds will trigger a check or what evidence will satisfy them. If you think you do enough selling to maybe show up on the radar, maybe start keeping a simple record of what you sell on items going forward.
HMRC could have started an investigation on you without this data sweep, either due to a tip off, or another programme or even a random check.
They could but what is more likely a tip off or some automated triggering based on data they will now receive?
If you think you do enough selling to maybe show up on the radar, maybe start keeping a simple record of what you sell on items going forward.
Thanks Dad.
And I’ll ask again, why will you have to pay 60% tax.
Because it would be income tax and I am effectively in the category where I'm paying 60% (loss of personal allowance for each additional £ of income).
I've only been dipping in and out of this thread, as apologies in advance if it's already been posted, but there's some more info. here - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reporting-rules-for-digital-platforms/reporting-rules-for-digital-platforms
It doesn't seem completely finished so may get updated.
They could but what is more likely a tip off or some automated triggering based on data they will now receive?
Still struggling why improvements in the way they identify people with genuine tax liabilities that they have been avoiding is seen as some attack on our personal freedoms. Improving the tax take from under the radar traders is good, no? (and yes, they should also be pursuing high level avoiders as well, as MCTD has noted that they have other Depts doing)
Understand now on the 60% tax rate - for clarity for others that might be thinking 'eh?' if you earn more than £100,000 per year, for every £2 above that you lose £1 of your personal allowance (the bit you pay no tax on) So from £100-125K the nett effect of both adds up to the effective 60% rate.
And FTR, you won't pay any extra tax if as you say you make no profit on selling on your old stuff as long as you keep half-decent records. In fact it's in reality free additional income because you've had both the value of the use of the items and then get something back for them. There might be cases where for example you buy something, don't use it for whatever reason and then resell at a loss (eg: a pair of shoes you decide don't fit, can't be arsed to return, then find in the cupboard 5 years later and just shift on) where you genuinely lose money, but most stuff in the personal reselling category I'm a bit side-eyed at whether you've made a loss really. But that's not how the HMRC treat it so is just overcomplicating.
Just to clarify - Is the suggestion from some here that you would need to file a tax return if say you move house and have a clear-out and satisfy the £1k and 'making a profit' rule and if so you are OK with that idea?
What if you purchased items years ago and due to inflation and luck the items are worth more, you should have to pay tax because it is considered 'profit'? E.g. I sell a dining table and chairs for £300 more than I paid for them 30 years ago, do you think tax should be paid on that?
Apologies if this has been covered but surely the intention needs to be there in order for it to be profit and not just the sale of your old stuff?
Honestly though - the vast, vast majority, myself included will continue to sell their old stuff online at whatever value without any care or regard for this new rule or the potential for a non-existent HMRC army to come knocking and ask for the receipts for the olive tree you made a £100 profit on that you bought in 2006, no most people will not be keeping any records and no they wont file a tax return or even consider the idea.
Catch the traders, sure - but create a society where its too much effort / risk to sell your old junk and everyone will just send it to landfill, how fantastic.
FFS. No-one makes profit selling old house contents. Stop all the pathetic whinging.
Everyone should indeed stop whinging.
There’s going to be a massive shortfall when Jeremy Hunt abolishes inheritance tax in March and somebody’s going to have to pay for it
It was just an example but of course you can, thank you for the bizarre outburst though captain
Inflation has been rampant for the past few years and I have a few things I could sell for a 'profit' if I wanted to.
Better example for you - what if you bought a rolex 10 years ago and sold it today for a £5k 'profit'?
No, because that isn't trading. For the last time; the rule hasn't changed and I'm not aware (correct me if I'm wrong) that anyone has been pursued / prosecuted for a 'one off' as you describe. If you are doing it regularly, then it's a business and you should be paying tax on the income from it just like I have to pay tax on my income.
All that has changed is that countries in the OECD have agreed to share data from the online platforms that these traders use, so that they can be identified and approached to ensure they are compliant.
I said early on, there's lots to criticise the HMRC and Gov for but i can't see this is one.
Badges of Trade
Profit seeking motive – do you intend to make a profit;
The number of transactions – if they are systematic & repeated, then that is likely to be a trade;
Are there similar transactions outside online trade – do you have an existing trade that is sold in the traditional way therefore online activity is just a new route to market;
Interval of time between purchase and sale – this implies the purchase or resale processes
Amount of time dedicated to these activities;
Method of acquisition – if acquired by inheritance or gifts, then the sale is not likely to be a trade.
Better example for you – what if you bought a rolex 10 years ago and sold it today for a £5k ‘profit’?
That's an interesting one. If you bought it 10 years ago and kept it pristine in a box then AIUI that could be considered taxable as an investment if it's something you planned to do / regularly do. Badges of trade as above
If you bought it, wore it for 10 years and then without particularly having planned for that to happen found out it was worth 'a lot' and cashed it in - good luck you. You see these on the Antiques Roadshow occasionally, bought something from a car boot sale or whatever because they liked it, turns out to be a rare Cartier one-off etc. I'm not aware that creates a massive tax liability as a result.
Still struggling why improvements in the way they identify people with genuine tax liabilities that they have been avoiding is seen as some attack on our personal freedoms.
Not surprised you are struggling as at no point have I said it is an attack on personal freedoms. I also don't moan about paying tax that I owe.
Again, for the last time, the key point for ME as someone who makes zero profit (and therefore owe nothing) is that I am much more likely to have to answer to any questions on my many sales of items when presumably automated reporting comes in based on data from digital sales than I am because for some reason someone tipped of to HMRC that I was selling loads of things on eBay.
Some of the replies on here suggest that is not a problem and I should be doing it anyway but for ME it is a problem as digging around for say 100 original purchase receipts that match the item sold that year is nigh on impossible meaning I will just have to pay tax which I shouldn't be paying.
Of course none of that might happen but with such easily automated reporting why wouldn't it and wouldn't you be a bit miffed having to pay 60% tax on something you shouldn't be paying tax on.
I didn't say it was you, but others on here and particularly on Twitter are very anti-HMRC about it.
Some of the replies on here suggest that is not a problem and I should be doing it anyway but for ME it is a problem as digging around for say 100 original purchase receipts that match the item sold that year is nigh on impossible meaning I will just have to pay tax which I shouldn’t be paying.
If you're doing 100 transactions a year then that may well trigger some thresholds - I've seen 30 per platform mentioned. But that doesn't automatically mean you have to pay tax, nor does it mean you have to find all the receipts as i have said previously. 100 sales a year indicates quite some time spent doing the listings and I'd suggest a basic spreadsheet of approx original value of what you are selling against the actual sales price isn't going to massively impact that. I'd certainly find the time if the alternative is paying 60% tax on the profit (which incidentally is what - how do you think the tax office would decide what the profit is other than ask you? It won't in the absence of anything else just be the turnover......)
You really are, IMHO, making a mountain out of a molehill.
You really are, IMHO, making a mountain out of a molehill.
Yep, very likely and in the big scheme of things I couldn't care less about it but this thread is specifically discussing it which is what I am doing. And it is very quiet at work!
But neither of us will know until 2025 but if a simple spreadsheet of made up numbers will satisfy HMRC then sounds good, especially if all I need to do is tell the tax office I have made no profit so nothing for them to worry about. They typically want a bit more detail than that...
One of my friends makes his living from buying at home clearances, renovating, and selling on ebay. All goes though self assessment. Probably competing with people not putting similar sales "through the books". Some will be "traders" like him, others will just have a few things on the side. For HRMC to tell the difference, and prevent my mate from going bust competing with those not paying tax where they should be... data needs to be made available to HRMC. The big American companies having to provide that data can only be a win for the UK, including all honest sellers, as far as I can see.
Another thread swirling around in the pan before disappearing into irrelevance.
Too many what ifs and too much whataboutery.
Many posts have pointed out that the policy is aimed at traders masquerading as private sellers in order to avoid paying tax which is, rightfully, due.
That should be non-contentious.
It's possible that a small number of private sellers will be swept up in this but, in my experience, HMRC are reasonable and fair in dealing with the public; being pleasant, polite, factually correct and in possession of relevant facts will all help - getting arsey will definitely count against you.
For the vast majority of private sellers this is a non-story.
Of course there are what ifs as the effect won't be seen for a year so won't know what limits are used (number of sales or value of sales) to trigger any requests. This is really a discussion about that for me but sorry it didn't live up to your standards.
Agree, HMRC have always been fine with I have called them and always helpful and knowledgeable.
well i had a spare few hours, vinted i've sold 75 items in 2023, totalling nearly £1k,
i've marked items as either new (stuff i've got/bought and never used/worn) versus worn by my self / used bike parts etc. i've then looked through my hotmail and added email screenshots of the 25 new items, i have made a grand total of £29 profit.,
can i deduct the losses on a few of these items against any profits?, ie i sold a shirt for £6 with tags still attached from bottom of my wardrobe £8 on original receipt
so i've got to do a self assessment for £29 and pay 20%/40% tax.
what a ballache..
but sorry it didn’t live up to your standards
What are you on about?
A cynic might say that in itself it won’t raise anything at all in revenue from additional tax, but it does open up another avenue to slap big fines on unsuspecting people, like they have done with self-employed people and self-assessments forms
HMRC are reasonable and fair in dealing with the public
No disrespect to the actual workers on this thread but they can be rather Kafkaesque in that they will only tell you not to do certain things and not explain how to remain compliant.
This is not unique to HMRC, HSE are also known to operate in this way.
I suspect this is down to poorly written legislation and lack of test cases.
well i had a spare few hours, vinted i’ve sold 75 items in 2023, totalling nearly £1k,
i’ve marked items as either new (stuff i’ve got/bought and never used/worn) versus worn by my self / used bike parts etc. i’ve then looked through my hotmail and added email screenshots of the 25 new items, i have made a grand total of £29 profit.,
can i deduct the losses on a few of these items against any profits?, ie i sold a shirt for £6 with tags still attached from bottom of my wardrobe £8 on original receipt
Potentially, if you're going to consider yourself a trader then you could.
so i’ve got to do a self assessment for £29 and pay 20%/40% tax.
what a ballache..
No, you don't. As numerous posts and posters have already pointed out.
How about an offshoring tax, then? I'd rather see some legislation to set that up.
it's not an either or choice though, is it?
I'm not suggesting it is an 'either or'. I'm suggesting the implementation of an offshoring tax (tax on profit moved offshore), which doesn't currently exist.
My thinking has been informed from a book:
TAXTOPIA by The Rebel Accountant
Actually quite an entertaining book about tax avoidance!
@finephilly I’ll check it out, nothing legally wrong with tax avoidance it’s tax evasion which is the issue .
hence why I put more in my pension, take out a c2w and buy holidays to lower my PAYE , whilst putting my savings money into ISAs to avoid capital gains and dividend tax
Some of the replies on here suggest that is not a problem and I should be doing it anyway but for ME it is a problem as digging around for say 100 original purchase receipts that match the item sold that year is nigh on impossible meaning I will just have to pay tax which I shouldn’t be paying.
if you are selling things twice a week on line, is it not an income stream you should already be reporting to HMRC and keeping the records necessary to back it up?
After reading that MSE article, I don't think it's as clear cut as some people are suggesting and if they wanted to, the change could pull in a lot of people and create a lot of admin for minimal tax gain.
I have sold quite a lot on eBay since covid, a few things trading but mostly items that i no longer need to clear the years of clutter from different hobbies.
I keep a list of the items I list that are purchased to resell.
eBay allow you to export data including the payments from eBay (ie after their fees). I regular export between dates and go through it and mark it in a spreadsheet whether each transaction was trading or not. I ensure I keep under the £1000 turnover limit.
For items that are not trading I put a small comment as to why it isn't
I haven't been asked for the information before, however I expected to be questioned at some point.
It doesn't take too long to do.
In terms of whether they believe me, when selling my own personal used items I very rarely sell more than one of the same thing.
That’s an interesting one. If you bought it 10 years ago and kept it pristine in a box then AIUI that could be considered taxable as an investment if it’s something you planned to do / regularly do. Badges of trade as above
Buying a watch as an investment is a capital gains item and would falls within the CGT regime as do antiques, jewellry etc. Trading does not apply to selling old stuff - trading is buying and selling stuff with a view to a profit - the latter point being equally as important. Indeed it is on this point that many of the later film tax deals failed - Jolyon Maugham lost those ones too.
"eBay allow you to export data including the payments from eBay"
Whereabouts is this? I can't find it anywhere
, I don’t think it’s as clear cut as some people are suggesting and if they wanted to, the change could pull in a lot of people and create a lot of admin for minimal tax gain.
This is the way.
“eBay allow you to export data including the payments from eBay”
Whereabouts is this? I can’t find it anywhere
There are two ways of getting an export from Seller Hub (if you haven't turned on seller hub, then you might not get the option.)
I am only interested in the net proceeds that ebay have paid to me (ie after their fees, not including postage).
To get that information you have to go to Performance and Sales and then choose Sales. Then select the date range and generate a report against the same period the previous year.
Then where the report is, you can then click download and it will give you a sales report. How many of each item and the value of sales
if you are selling things twice a week on line, is it not an income stream you should already be reporting to HMRC and keeping the records necessary to back it up?
Nope. Why would I be "reporting" it to the HRMC. There is absolutely no requirement to do so as I haven't made any profit from it. Think about it, how is buying something for £100 and then selling it later for £50 an income stream?
@kerley Exactly. This is the thing certain people on this thread are struggling to focus on. Just like you I sell quite a lot of kit over the year. Mainly audio, camera and watersports kit. I rarely if ever make any profit and it just helps fund the next toy. I buy well on the first place and this means my many hobbies are not as expensive as they should be, The value of stuff sold over the year can easily reach a few thousand. The thought of having to 'explain' the man maths here to anyone other than my wife does not thrill me. Self assessment is very much not the game plane here.
@paulwf have you considered having sperate eBay accounts for personal and trading?
Nope. Why would I be “reporting” it to the HRMC. There is absolutely no requirement to do so as I haven’t made any profit from it. Think about it, how is buying something for £100 and then selling it later for £50 an income stream?<br /><br />
HMRC seem to suggest you are required to tell them if your income/turnover is >£1000. You only pay the tax on the profit but are required to declare the income source. I don’t make the rules… https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/selling-online-and-paying-taxes/selling-online-and-paying-taxes-information-sheet#:~:text=However%2C%20if%20your%20total%20income,Trading%20and%20Miscellaneous%20Income%20Allowance).
If I fell in that camp I would be slightly concerned because HMRC are often a PITA about not reporting stuff even if it had no net impact on the amount due. If you should have made a self assessment (of zero) each year they can issue penalties for failing to register. They never accept “I didn’t know I had to” as a reason.
If you should have made a self assessment (of zero) each year they can issue penalties for failing to register.
How often does that happen?
How often does that happen?
When you disclose it on a public forum - I have 72 hours to report any suspicious activity or it's a disciplinary matter.
(Officially, at least)
How often does that happen?
Apparently in the 20-21 tax year 184,000 people were fined for failing to make an assessment despite not owning any tax