Paying a trade

I've had one good experience with TT and one complete (attempted) rip-off (with good reviews). Proceed with caution.

Depends on the job, normally 'half' would be to cover materials so it's the least risky way.

If they buy the materials and you get cold feet they've got load of stuff they may or may not have use for.

If they don't finish (or even start) at least you've got the materials.

So it depends, if you trust them then crack on, if you don't trust them then just find someone you do.

No, you can't pay into a bank account and get credit card protection. Nor can you pay somebody using a credit card if they aren't set up to receive payments.

As I understand it, say the trader accepts PayPal, and you pay PayPal using your card, then they pay the trader, you still don't get any protection from the builder not delivering. You paid PayPal, so the credit card protection applies to the service provided by PayPal - if they failed to pay the trader, or paid the wrong amount, you'd be protected, but if they did their job and sent the money to PayPal, you've no claim.

If they don’t finish (or even start) at least you’ve got the materials

It's normal on big engineering contracts for the materials to belong to the customer if they've paid up front for them, but that has to be written into the contract. If the contract just says you pay half up front, with nothing about who owns the materials, they still belong to the contractor.

Hard isn’t it? Everyone says find someone you trust…… even getting a trade to quote is a miracle these days. Had to do the same recently (50%) up front for quite a large number, has so far worked ok for the first phase and now have switched to day rate plus mats with the builder. Lots of people will say this is a bad idea too. But for me it is actually better than stumping up a massive amount, plus they just price in the risk on a fixed price anyway,

Minefield.

We had all of the flat roofs on our house (x 4 separate sections) replaced about a year ago. Was done in two stages - 1st floor dormers front/rear and then ground floor garage/kitchen. I was invoiced once work was complete for each of the two stages, nothing up front.

It's been a hassle just getting people to quote. They have come around and then nothing. Problem is the have about 38 references on the site but who knows how true they are. Quite a few didn't give any reference but the all seem the same.

Not a huge amount but it is in the Thousands which I can't afford to lose. When he came around he seemed very genuine but then all the best cons do. This was the reason I really wanted the insurance company to sort it. Can't find any references online and it's a fairly new company at Company House

This is what your local Facebook groups are made for, join all the relevant local ones and ask away. Once you have a few duplicate answers you’re good to go. Plus you can go and look at the work.

Can the insurance company do that? Are you not insured to reinstatement. Given the current difficulty in pricing and obtaining materials seems like the insurance company are trying to back you into a corner for their benefit.

I'd be more in to word of mouth from mates or locals i know rather than facebook, see loads of folk recommending their brother/uncle/guy off their footy team/etc, but as they don't know you they don't really care about being 100% truthful.

As for quotes, biggest red flag i have is if i get someone in for a quote and they ask what your budget is, if they can't give a standard quote without knowing your budget then it's not a good start!

I used the chekatrade website recently for some replacement guttering.

The top rated one was slow getting back to me so I went with the second highest rated one.

Good quote, good service.. I'm happy.

Unless you know a lot of people in the industry then you just have to take your chances.

https://www.checkatrade.com/

It was only a £400 job but they didn't ask for any money until the job was done and I paid them in full by bank transfer once I was happy.

I'd be wary of anyone asking for cash up front, unless it's a proper deposit against a quoted job that they have come around to look at properly.

He has come around and measured up. I said the insurance company were going to pay but only about £800. He seemed to know his stuff but is quite a bit below what a much bigger company has quoted. I guess that being only a 2 man unit helps to cut costs though.

@nixie The insurance company have been less than helpful. I've been argueing that 80% damage warrants a replacement. That even if they only did the 80% I would be happy to pay for the 20. Won't have it. Have been a bit more willing to compromise since I asked for the recordings of the call as the customer service call was pretty below standard. I had to end it politely before I started swearing back.

Unfortunately it does say in the T&C that the can defer to a payout, but I am still fighting that. The problem is that the roof is Euro 5 which is now unavailable and only Euro 6 is so they can say that they cannot replace like for like.

Honestly I would only go with a local recommendation.
It’s disgusting to think some will blatantly rip you off just because in some cases you can’t find someone else.

Also never ever give all the money until the work is 100% complete. While doing this house we paid joiner in full who then never came back 2 weeks later to seal the worktop. Also if we hadn’t held the money back from the plumber he would have no need to come to attend to final finishing jobs.

I cannot stress that enough, hope you find someone decent and usually your local village/town fb can recommend at least one person

What I may do is say I'll pay their supplier for materials up front and have it delivered to me then they can just come in an fit

At least you are stepping cautiously as plenty of no good tradesmen out there especially in the south west.

I feel your frustration.

CC will be hard if not impossible to get Co. to listen to inferior work.

Ombudsman for the insurer being difficult to deal with and replacing like for like (terms and conditions would be worth double checking).

All best with it 👍

We had a roof done last year, got 2 quotes. I asked for the last jobs they did and went to look, asked owners what they thought. Went ahead, no money up front, offered a reference for any future work. Had to wait a year, good roofers are flat out with work...sorry for near pun.

I wouldn't go with anyone I wasn't 100% happy with. Neighbour did a complete refurb, loads of trades coming and going. 1 week after completion they were burgled for something v specific.

What's a Euro 5 and Euro 6 roof?

And what is the arguement about? They will only settle for a repair, as it's only 80% damaged, but you can't get compatible roofing? So it needs full replacement, but they'll only pay 80% of it?

What’s a Euro 5 and Euro 6 roof?

Appears to be a profile of corrugated roofing sheet.

If the roof is 80% damaged but the profile is not obtainable then is it not effectively 100% damaged as irreparable. Although I've not had the conversations with the insurance I'd not be accepting a fixed amount when as that's likely to leave you out of pocket.

@spooky_b329 it the profile of fibre cement roofing sheets. Euro 5 is 5 inch profile and well 6 is 6 inch :-). I have spoken to a few suppliers and Euro 5 has been discontinued. They do have some stock but not in the length I need.

@nixie The insurance has come back and said to get quotes for the work but I feel I'm now doing their job. Should probably bill them for time that I have had to spend waitng in for quotes. Wonder how that would go down?

They have paid for a test to see if it's asbestos though. Luckily not but Fibre cement does look like asbestos.

Ah I imagined it was some sort of building control standard!

I had my garage reroofed with insulated profiled aluminium, it wasn't too expensive and it's got a gloss white ceiling which makes it bright inside, and it stays nice and cool in the summer. Never seen any condensation either.

I think at this point I'd be naming and shaming the insurer.

80% damage is "new roof," surely.

Ah, if it's £800 i'm guessing it's just a few sheets being replaced and sealing, was thinking this was a complete rebuild with new joists, etc, but that would be 2k in today's market at least!

@argee no that's what the insurance offered as a payout. Just the corrugated roof sheets were damaged. Out of 16 sheets, 3 were undamaged. Thing is the matereals needed for the job are fairly cheap. It's labour that costs. Most expensive quote is £3500 but even I think thats a lot for what the job is. Matereals are £500 at the most.

I think I could do it myself if I had to but it would take me a week and probably look like shit but for someone who knows what they are doing it's about a days work.

This is what your local Facebook groups are made for, join all the relevant local ones and ask away.

Our street has a WA group for this - very useful.

IIRC Check a trade etc don't let people leave bad reviews as they don't GAS about the quality of the people, they just want commission.

You have to laugh. Got a quote for replacing CH boiler which involved taking out attic cold water tank, removing hot water tank and associated pipework stuff converting to combi system. Newboiler included magnetic filter and Bosch controls.

First place quote was £5.5k. Not broken down into parts and labour. I had already done a quote on www.boxt.co.uk to get a reality check which was £3100.

I figured I could buy the boiler - Worcester Greenstar 4000 for £1200. Add controls, mag filter and some piping and parts total might be around £2000. So quote 1 was wanting £3500 labour. Or more if they got the parts at a big discount over retail.

The company I got in to do it were £3400 total. Fitted by 2 guys in two full 8am to 4 or 5pm days. Company 1 were a long established local company had done a survey before quoting so knew exactly what fitting would involve. So were asking for around £900 a day labour per man. Both companies Worcester accredited fitters.

I’d be wary of paying anything upfront unless they came with a personal (I.e. somebody you know) recommendation. We’re just starting on a £100k worth of build/renovation. The builder doesn’t want anything upfront and nothing paying until the extension is watertight, likely to be 10 weeks from the start. Whilst I thought that generous, it also gives me confidence that the reputation this guy comes with is well earned.

Not a personal recommendation. Getting a few more quotes but it's like pulling teeth. Guy comes around then you don't hear from them. If they don't want the job I wish they would just say "Sorry mate, not what I do really" then I can cross them off the list.

After 4 months of trying to get quotes I went with a guy that was 50% up front. Then remainder paid on phase completion,

Not one builder would work without some level of deposit. So to find one that will do work without any form of payment or deposit is rare in my recent experience. They must trust you are a reliable payer and have sufficiently deep pockets!

The quotes are slowly coming in now but only after a bit of chasing. A mixture of 50% up front and pay on completion. Problem is the Pay on completion guys are twice as much. Still I suppose it's a negotiation point. No harm in asking? I do understand that trades can get ripped off as much as the client but it's not huge amounts just an amount that I really can't affrd to lose right now.