[Closed] Pay drop after temp promotion??

honest in my line of work when someone has been promoted they keep the pay increase even if they have moved back down to a lower position

Temporary Maternity cover is not promotion.

It's temporary maternity cover at a higher level.

Commonly seen in industry as time to prove your self at the higher level.

Which industry do you work in. Need to get me some of that keeping your wage consumerate with a higher level of work once I'm fed up managing a team.

If she has successfully worked for 18 months 3 grades higher than her old role then she is in a strong position to negotiate for a similar role, perhaps a grade lower, that she is happy with.

Check the wording on the contract change that bumped her up that much - they did give her as written contract explaining about the termination transition didn't they? Possibly not, in which case they have to agree to the change to the new (revert back) job change I believe. An employment contract is an agreement between two parties and can only be changed with agreement from both parties or termination by one of them.

Have a chat with the union rep first. Explain what she wants as an outcome, not what she thinks she will get given. You know where she is, you will know where she wants to be, you then negotiate with the employer to a mutually agreeable outcome as close to that as you can get.

Depends on her new contract when she moved up. Was it a promotion? A secondment? Temporary contract? Fixed term?

Only she and you can answer that.

Had enough of the job but wants to keep the pay?

Is the pay not in part to compensate for the challenge of the Job?

Now she has proved herself she is ideally placed to apply for higher paid jobs.

You go back to the old job on the old pay, it should have been kept open (not permanently filled)

Not sure she did ever get a fully worded contract for the step up? This is my musings really and not hers as she's not too bothered but it just feels off that such a big pay bump would just be taken back.
I seem to remember (back in the day) where supervisors in the workshop had stepped down but were still on the old pay. It was a good few years ago and not something most companies would be keen to have in play due to conflict but I'm sure this was the case.

feels off that such a big pay bump would just be taken back.

Surely she's free to apply for an equivalent job with her new found CV experiance to list.

Temporary change of job is basically a secondment - it should be seen as this rather than a temporary promotion.

You may not be convinced that she should be dropped back down to her original rate, but what you think and what her contract and/or the law says in this situation may be at odds.

In the secondment situation, once the period of secondment is up, it is standard for the employee to return to their original role along with their original terms and pay. At best, in this scenario, she is in a strong position to negotiate for more responsibility in her current role/department and a grade increase to match. Assuming that is what she wants of course.

The devil is in the details, and those will be the details which were signed and agreed to at the time she tool the temporary role. Get those out and have a chat with someone from the union who can offer qualified advice.

True...and she would be well received...however I fear management is not her calling (just her opinion and not the consensus of others) so she will most likely do what she feels comfortable with (and why not!).

Temporary promotion is just that - temporary. When I've had it in the past I've enjoyed the money and the experience, but when it's over you go back down to your old job and pay, and hope it's going to be useful if a job at the higher level comes up then you are better placed if you apply for it.

That pretty much answers it then... "Temporary" being the operative. Fair enough just thought I'd see what the massive think. Like I said it's not really an issue so she will take this where she wants to suit her needs.

Temporary promotions in the NHS that last over a year can and usually do become permanent so even if you goes back to her old job her pay grade is protected.

This is all from memory so you need to check local policy which will be available online and with her union

Ah ...this is what I was wondering TJ. From memory/ history (she's worked in NHS for near 25 years) and I can't really think of anyone who has been dropped back to their original pay grade after some kind of promotion (albeit temporary). She has essentially gone from C grade to F grade so certainly shown her worth.

It was temporary during maternity leave your wife will be returned her previous role and pay.

It does depend to some extent if it was "acting up" or "secondment" and if there was an agreed end date.  You can only a"act up" for a year before the grade becomes yours as a general rule.  Secondments can last longer but rarely.  Both should be reviewed regularly

As I said - check local policy on the intranet - there will be one and I bet the managers have not followed this properly

I know of two people that ended up in promoted posts because they were left in an acting up capacity for over a year

TJ...she is with the union so if she wants to chase this she has the option. I feel she might opt for an engineered role of a similar level (operations manager or such like) that keeps her in a similar grade and in the same locale but just wondering what might happen if nothing materialises.
I suppose some of this is my own selfishness as she has a pension that will be better off with a higher grade at the end of her career.... My paltry engineering pension won't wipe my arse so we,ll be living off hers.

She needs to go to the union because there is a fair bit of nuance over this depending on what basis she took the temp promotion.

C grade to F grade

I thought the lettered grades in the NHS were universally replaced by the numbered grades under Agenda for Change? So has your wife moved from Band 4 to Band 6 @Donk?

I know that in my wife’s trust, in that situation as a rule, they don’t continue paying people temporarily appointed to a higher graded role once they return to their original and substantive role.

she has a pension that will be better off with a higher grade at the end of her career

The more you earn throughout, then the more you end up with in your pension pot obvs, but as of April this year, the remainder of her (NHS) pension contributions will go in the 2015 scheme which is career average, not final salary. Might not have quite the detrimental effect you're expecting?

A bit of my own experience on this one from both sides of the fence working in the NHS

In my experience it is 2 years in a role that becomes the crucial deciding point. ie I have seen people hurriedly moved out of a post just before 2 years as the Trust's I have worked in have seen this as the tipping point. I have also seen it used though make people substantive.

No Trusts give people temporary promotions. It will either have been an 'acting up' (limited to max 6 months, 'fixed term' or 'Secondment'. In essence they all do the same thing which is fill a gap, and try and avoid poor management.

I have worked in some Trusts that use secondment as a real opportunity to develop good staff. However unfortunately in more recent years I've seen it used as a poor management tool to fill crucial gaps with out planning or thought.

As far as I know the drop in salary was never tabled by the NHS when she was asked to step up so it’s a bit devious if this ends up being the case

That tends to be standard policy for any of the above types of work arrangement and its normally very clearly written out in the contract (secondment letter etc). Did she not receive any documentation?

In my experience you can very quickly work out what is going to happen by speaking with the line manager.

You can only ”act up” for a year before the grade becomes yours as a general rule.

If you can find anything that backs that up I would be very grateful if you can share. I am currently in an 'Acting Up' role.

Originally I was told it was 6 months, and that after 6 months I would either revert to previous job and banding, or stay in a permanent basis in the new role. To date it has been extended in x 2 more 3 month periods so I will be in post for 1 year at which point I am now being told I will need to apply for the post!

Everything I read on the web and local policies does nothing to advise what should happen with acting ups if they go beyond 6 months, they all just say it shouldn't happen.

The more you earn throughout, then the more you end up with in your pension pot obvs, but as of April this year, the remainder of her (NHS) pension contributions will go in the 2015 scheme which is career average, not final salary. Might not have quite the detrimental effect you’re expecting?

She’ll have 2 pensions depends when she stared which one she’ll revert back to. The original pension will be based on final salary the last 3 years of employment, if it’s 1995. The second will be the new 2022 pension which is career based from 2022.

However, this is also being challenged as they’ve still changed the pensions of those of a certain age group just because they’re still employed.

Ah …this is what I was wondering TJ. From memory/ history (she’s worked in NHS for near 25 years) and I can’t really think of anyone who has been dropped back to their original pay grade after some kind of promotion (albeit temporary). She has essentially gone from C grade to F grade so certainly shown her worth.

In teaching you do the job then drop back when the person returns

I had a temporary promotion for 10 years and was always at risk of dropping back down. I couldn’t find any legal reason why they couldn’t do this

Funkydunc - unfortunately I no longer have access to the intranet to find it.  Its possible its different in different boards and / or in scotland and it can depend on if its "acting up" or "secondment" or a temp contract.

Look in your intranet HR policies

I am pretty sure in Lothian a year was the limit for acting up until the post became yours but there were caveats around it. I know two folk that ended up as band 7s because they acted up for more than a year

Yeah, public sector doesn't tend to allow this type of thing, you always tend to have clear policy on any temporary coverage, in MoD you go back down to your old job and pay, each grade has a pay band, so she'd probably top out in her old band as well.

It's always been an annoying system, as those filling the posts are usually competent and wanted longer term, but policy mandates fair and open competition, pay structures, etc, so you cannot just parachute or easily move people without competing.

I am pretty sure in Lothian a year was the limit for acting up until the post became yours but there were caveats around it. I know two folk that ended up as band 7s because they acted up for more than a year

It can happen yes but if it’s made clear from the start it’s temporary for a reason, this case for maternity leave, then it can be stopped. They can also remind you every 6 months or year or so. However, it can be that they can be looked at for a keeping in position if looks like it’ll be permanent.

As others have said, in our bit of the public sector, temporary promotion to cover eg maternity leave or on a secondment is simply that. You get the uplift for the role you're doing and then you revert back to your substantive when the period of the temporary position is over.

You're familiar with the "Peter Principle"? This seems the perfect solution!

Hang on people get more money when on secondment?
We just get told it's a great honor to be chosen for 15 mts busting your arse and putting the permanent staffers so shame.
No wonder I only did it twice 😂