[Closed] Pavement parking...does anyone actually GAS?

[i]does anyone actually GAS[/i]

It's illegal in London.

Only enforced round here if there's a single or double yellow on the road.

does anyone actually GAS?

Yes. I do. It happens on our street despite (a) people having perfectly good drives to park on and (b) the road being big and quiet enough to park on. I despise having to walk on the road with my kids and pushchair because someone has blocked the pavement.

That said, where on your link is anyone parked on the pavement??

where on your link is anyone parked on the pavement??

I can't see any.

Get a few mates together and bounce them back onto the road.

followed the link (now!) and they're all parked on private land by the look of it?

[i]I can't see any.[/i]

They've had to drive across the pavement and cyclepath to park on the grass (now dirt). Is that legal?

They've had to drive across the pavement...is that legal?

I hope so; I do that every time I park on my drive, or pull into a garage forecourt.

In our street, most houses have two cars, and ALL of them have at least a garage and a drive, so they could easily keep two cars off-street. However, they either a) can't be bothered or b) have converted their garages. So the road is completely choked with cars in the evening and you have to walk up the road. Which is great with kids or pushchairs.

In the op I did say link has dubious parking which has since got worse with cars parked on pavement where pcsos are.

Don't see anything dubious in the link. Parking on land within 15yds of the road is specifically allowed.

It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/34

Fairy nuff.
I was just trying to GAS.

[i]They've had to drive across the pavement and cyclepath to park on the grass (now dirt). Is that legal?[/i]

You need to have a think about what you're saying there!

As above I can't see how the cars in the link are causing an issue.

Nope, nobody gives a toss! 👿

Bugs the hell out of me too, your not alone.

It's all over the local town every bit of grass verge along one road is now gone with cars parked on them and the pavement and off road cycle routes, with certain ones regularly blocking them to buggy's and pushchairs.

I've tried the Police, county council, local council, and a couple of local councillors one of which is my father in law who keeps telling me it terrifies him when I take my son out in the buggy on the back of my bike (regular nursery transport). Not one of them has done anything that's had made the slightest bit of difference on a one specific bit of off road cycle route which I use to get my son to nursery which is now basically residents parking.

Too many lazy people and too many cars, bad planning rules etc etc no money in any budgets to do anything about it, and not a vote winner for the councillors to attack

Inconsiderate parking does my nut.

Popped into the village up the road earlier and parked in one of the many free spaces in the free car park. On leaving and crossing the road I found my path blocked by a defender 110 parked in a pub carpark but not in a space an blocking the whole pavement so had to walk round it on the road (as did several elderly people coming the other way).

About 20 metres up the road there was a Co-op delivery waggon parked half in and half out of the designated loading bay. Presumably so he was half a trailer length closer to the doors of the store but that half the trailer was clearly in a "no loading" zone and very close to a tight 90 degree bend in the road causing a dangerous obstruction.

then a further 20 metres up the road a yellow fiat was parked on zig zags right after a zebra crossing.

Then for seemingly no reason an elderly couple just stopped in the middle the road about 5 metres before the zebra crossing and started to look around while other confused car drivers stopped behind them but unable to pass due to the zigzags. I can only assume that the yellow car on the other side of the crossing (on their side) and the truck meant they were not sure whether to proceed as they could end up stuck on the wrong side of the road with cars coming towards them. In reality they had plenty of room but I can understand looking at them they could be easily confused by the pi$$ poor parking that was ahead of them.

Really gets on my nerves. Around my way they really take the pi$$ with it. What winds me up is that it's people taking something that is their problem, i.e. where to leave their car, and making it everybody else's problem.

We're allowed to walk over cars parked on the pavement, right?

Only enforced round here if there's a single or double yellow on the road

No parking allowed on the road? Just dump your car on the 'a-smidge-wider-than-a-car' pavement.

I should add that in our situation there's plenty of on-road parking at the top of the hill 20-100 yards away from the houses, where the road is much wider and there aren't any house frontages. Do they park up there? Do they hell, they choke up the street instead 🙁

[i]You need to have a think about what you're saying there[/i]

Shit, I don't do I?

In our street, most houses have two cars, and ALL of them have at least a garage and a drive, so they could easily keep two cars off-street. However, they either a) can't be bothered or b) have converted their garages

From what I've seen/experienced most people use garages as a place to keep things they meant to take to the tip or flog. "Out of sight, out of mind."

Coming at this issue from a different perspective, I'm one of those that park on pavements. No markings on the road but if I were to park in the road no-one could get past (I leave enough room for prams to get by). This is in a newish estate with 1space per house. Seeing as I houseshare with 2 other car owners i'd imagine the a big cause is a lack of options for those wanting a place of their own.

No parking allowed on the road? Just dump your car on the 'a-smidge-wider-than-a-car' pavement.

The double yellows apply right up to the property line, so they include the pavement.

Coming at this issue from a different perspective, I'm one of those that park on pavements. No markings on the road but if I were to park in the road no-one could get past. This is in a newish estate with 1space per house. Seeing as I houseshare with 2 other car owners i'd imagine the a big cause is a lack of options for those wanting a place of their own.

In Japan, you're not allowed to buy a car unless you can prove that you've somewhere to store it. We should have that system here.

If we can extend this rant to trucks and vans who use their parking immunity hazard lights please?

Terrific idea. 60miles a day would be great endurance training.

From what I've seen/experienced most people use garages as a place to keep things they meant to take to the tip or flog. "Out of sight, out of mind."

Mine is that, plus bike storage and workshop. However, I have three off-road parking spaces so I feel it's ok for us.

Seeing as I houseshare with 2 other car owners i'd imagine the a big cause is a lack of options for those wanting a place of their own.

People probably wouldn't mind the odd car here and there - there are one or two houseshares in our street too. Of course - perhaps you could park somewhere else and walk in? I did this when I lived in a street with no off-street parking at all. Sometimes I had to walk ooh.. 100m. I managed.

jonnouk - So it's ok then to block the pavement and force pedestrians, parents with kids in buggy's and the disabled on to the road?

My biggest problem point is along side a 50mph dual carriage way on a bend 20-30m from a roundabout. Am I expected to walk or ride on that with my son in tow (50% of the time against the flow of traffic) for the sake of somebody parking their car 100m up the road?

Each time I've asked people to move their cars firmly but politely. I've been sworn or told point blank their not moving it or been told to walk on the road and even been told to find another cycle route home despite that being the one and only proper and safe option.

jonnouk not picking on you but that general attitude of, well it suits me and not thinking of others is the problem. The fact that the authorities simply don't give a toss just rubber stamps it. Only a few years ago I wasn't anywhere near as bad round here. But once a few people start doing it then others follow. I see plenty of examples where there are driveways with space yet they park on the verg\pavement anyway maybe so they don't have to do a car shuffle or it's perhaps snug

miketually - Member

In Japan, you're not allowed to buy a car unless you can prove that you've somewhere to store it. We should have that system here.

While i agree with this sentiment, doing this would mean that new build estates would immediately have to offer more off street parking, nobody would want to buy older terraced properties that rely on on-street parking etc.

When we were looking to move house a few years ago, most of the new build estates only have one allocated space per house, many of which are in front of the garage. One we looked at had a fairly large area of front lawn that extended around the side of the property. I asked about the feasibility of putting a second parking space on this area and was told that was not allowed; something about not changing the appearance of the house for a certain number of years; it was 5 or possibly 10 years. You even had to get permission to re-paint the front door.

We ended up moving to a house where you can get 2 cars on the drive without one blocking the other in; 3 at a push. I didn't want to live in an area where the roads become slalom courses due to the amount of on-street parking.

The parking that really winds me up is when people effectively block the pavement so you have to walk on the road to get round the car. It's fine (although annoying) for an able bodied person, but for parents with young children in prams/buggies, people in wheelchairs/mobility scooters and blind people it can make a journey a lot more difficult and dangerous.

jonnouk - So it's ok then to block the pavement and force pedestrians, parents with kids in buggy's and the disabled on to the road?

Did you read what I wrote? There's room. It's not blocked. I'm half-tempted to give a google-view of the road in question but i don't want people turning up on their valiant steeds with pitchforks in hand.

nobody would want to buy older terraced properties that rely on on-street parking etc.

No problem. Just allocate a couple of spaces outside the house to the house - it'd work. Most terrace streets can be parked on sensibly. If they can't, then they should (and often do) have double yellows. I've seen lots of nice houses in small towns that are on double yellows, which brings the value right down.

[i]No problem. Just allocate a couple of spaces outside the house to the house - it'd work.[/i]

Have you ever been to Portsmouth?

Nothing dodgy about people mounting double yellowed kerbs and parking on scrubland I'm fairly sure they don't have permission to park on? Hmm
OK pan 90degrees right, how about those 2 blue cars parked in the junction to a road that didn't get finished?
Anyway pavement parking is my main beef and unfortunately Google car didn't pick that up but visit the place most mornings currently and you'll see it

molgrips - Member

No problem. Just allocate a couple of spaces outside the house to the house - it'd work. Most terrace streets can be parked on sensibly. If they can't, then they should (and often do) have double yellows. I've seen lots of nice houses in small towns that are on double yellows, which brings the value right down.

It will work in a lot of places, but equally it won't work in a lot of other places.
I can think of plenty of streets in Cambridge with terraced housing where parking one car per house is tight, let alone 'allocating a couple of spaces'.
Perhaps we need to bring in a similar idea to the Japanese size tax (can't remember what it's called) that created cars such as the WagonR and the Daihatsu Copen.....and if people want to live in certain city centre locations, they have to own one of these little cars.

There was a large complex of apartments built in Cambridge several years ago and the entire place has underground parking, which I think is a great idea and it works very well....

 

I saw a wheelchair-bound chap knock the wing mirrors off two cars parked [url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.882168,-1.718774,3a,75y,341.76h,57.83t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFGnY9BFP1C4Mhq_4h3GBfA!2e0 ]here[/url] who block the pavement every day and continued to do so after he'd left notes explaining that pulling into the road, up a steep hill by a blind junction, on a road where speeding is habitual was a shitty experience. From the look of streetview, at least one of them still parks there. I can't say I had much sympathy with the owners.

Regarding driving across the pavement, I thought you could only drive over a pavement at a dropped kerb?

I may have just imagined that, however.

Of course - perhaps you could park somewhere else and walk in? I did this when I lived in a street with no off-street parking at all. Sometimes I had to walk ooh.. 100m. I managed.

It'd have to be more like 300m considering outside my estate it's double yellows or pavement-parking everywhere. Maybe I should make the effort, the Air Cadets minibus & car were torched 15meters away from mine last night. Or, you know, not. Seeing as nobody's wing mirror have been smashed or sides been keyed in the years i've lived there.

Not on the pavement but this demonstrates typical Bristol parking: http://goo.gl/LGZyLa

Very kindly blocking pedestrians and drivers views.

Ever since I came here 14 years ago I've been amazed at people parking on junctions. That is a mild example of what I normally see at that junction.

Pavement parking winds me up too. Our last house was on a fairly new build estate and the wife was constantly having to walk in the road with pushchairs/prams. I stubbornly forced my way through in most cases, was tempted to fit some of these to the pushchair

[img] [/img]

Doesn't look like a problem to me. If the landowner cares he can go to the expense of installing a fence. Pavement parking is a problem, ie parking on the pavement and blocking the path for pedestrians. These people are not doing that however.

#yplac

Very regular submissions to their twitter feed and website of this sort of selfish p1ss boiling ****tery

(and breathe....)

I find it always best to see if the buggy can be forced through the gap that a car parked on the pavement has left. Sometimes they fit through with a small run up and breathe in as i go past.

here you go found the pic I sent to council, as I said on the pavement[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3849/15041251996_e86982b0f7_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3849/15041251996_e86982b0f7_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/oV9mbY ]pavement parking[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/23330272@N06/ ]D0NK[/url], on Flickr

Regarding driving across the pavement, I thought you could only drive over a pavement at a dropped kerb?

Some clever chap has devised a [url= http://bamboobadger.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/the-walker-anti-social-parking-scale.html ]WASP scale[/url] for objectively measuring the bellendery of parking

I think double yellows apply to the pavement alongside the road as well as the road itself...ie up to the property boundary...bumping up onto the pavement doesn't make you immune from double yellows..it just compounds the ****tery

Dunno what GAS means, but this really gets on my nerves. On my old street I was the only car that never did it, as such I had my wing mirror smashed a few times, and also my wing completely taken out. The guy then tried to blame me because I was 'sticking out' 👿

I think if the road is too narrow to allow traffic through with cars parked correctly on both sides then one side of the street should be car-free.

Dunno what GAS means

I think if the road is too narrow to allow traffic through with cars parked correctly on both sides then one side of the street should be car-free.

remind me again why society is obliged to provide free storage space for people's unused poessessions

There's a road in Stafford, Tixall Rd. where the council have decided to make the on-street parking and the cycle lane share the same bit of red tarmac. And there's a big factory on that road with big lorries going in and out, and the same factory operates a popular cycle to work scheme and has a full bike shed.

But the crematorium is only a mile up the road, as is the A&E department, so that will save a bit of time.

The planning authorities can and do stipulate how many parking place each house must. On our estate 15 years ago that was 2 offroad parking spaces per house. However one of those could be the garage. In reality no one uses their garage, they are about 4ft too narrow for comfortably parking a family car and openning a door. The bigger issue is many houses have long drives capable of at least 4 cars in a line. However most people park one on the drive and the rest on the pavement to avoid having to shuffle cars. We deliberately bought a corner plot so we had plenty of off road parking. Annoyingly we also have a very drive, 1.5 times the width of a normal car, unfortunately we share it with next door so parking on it would also block them. We're lucky on our cul de sac that most do use their drives, some have out to widen them (although environmentally driven legislation frowns on that). We have a few who see the turning circles as their own private additional spaces which is a annoying.

The rest of the estate is a nightmare with cars everywhere. It will only be resolved when planners take it seriously, council spend money on creating off street parking (government spending money on infrastructure, no chance) and the enforcement authorities care. So no, the people who can make a difference don't GAS, especially when we social issues like Rotherham need resources to investigate (not that anything will change). Or all the infrastructure money will go into replacing every single school in Burnley with brand new buildings whilst the children in the next borough make do with victorian institutions. That said I don't think parking was a big consideration when the new schools were built and educational standards haven't improved much, same pupils, same teachers but I'm sure it was all a roaring success.

Why should the council spend money creating off street parking? Private possessions should be stored on private land.

Does my head in round here.

Dropped kerbs have no legal standing about whether you can drive over them or not btw

Why should public money be spent on parks, landscaping, trail centres, memorial gardens, street furniture. Because they enhance the shared environment for everyone and is not private money can necessarily do as it takes forward thinking councils to adapt victoruan housing estates to modern living expectations. Even if every new house built from today was done correctly much of the housing stock doesn't have space for additional parking. Those that do I would expect the homeowner to pay but even then you now need permission to pave your front garden.

This PDF seems to sum up the various laws on pavement parking.

Can I also add that quite often parking on the pavement, especially when slabs or asp are used, can often trash it. Cracked slabs and so on . Pavements are often not built to withstand cars and it costs councils a lot of money to repair them.

It's often also said that the parking system is the 'wrong way' round too. Areas where you can park should be marked, and areas you can't park have nothing. Bright yellow lines and all the signage to restrict parking is aesthetically not the nicest thing to look at, can block pavements and can spoil how a place looks.

Cars have enough (too much in my view) space and to then have cars park on pavements and signs etc impact on peds outside of their zone (I.e the road) is not good !

I've noticed more and more pavement parking, plus the much more dangerous, and illegal (as I understand it) practice of parking right on the corners of road and street junctions, obscuring the view of oncoming vehicles when pulling out.
As far as dropped kerbs are concerned, I read that it was to prevent damage to the kerbstones by vehicles bumping over them. Frankly, I fail to see how a family saloon could cause damage to concrete kerbstones, but there you go.
I drive over the path to park on my (former) front garden, but the difference in height between the actual road surface and the top of the kerbstones outside my house is approximately an inch, so it's already dropped, to all intents and purposes!

gwaelod - Member

remind me again why society is obliged to provide free storage space for people's unused possessions

nicely put

some interesting viewpoints and costings in this (very) US article

[url] http://daily.sightline.org/2013/08/28/parking-karma/ [/url]

personally I first came across the problem of pavement parking when as a teen my Dad was in a wheelchair and that was a long time ago

Why should public money be spent on parks, landscaping, trail centres, memorial gardens, street furniture.

and from antigee's link and other stuff I've read, the bill for providing so much free parking is pretty mind boggling.

Interesting document IRC.

So the conclusions seem to be it's against a number of laws but we'll very rarely if ever do anything about it, bar educate drivers (and that sounds like a proactive council\Police force compared to mine, even when specific complaints have been made about genuine and persistent obstructions).

So OP yes some people (those often affected) GAS but those that can do something about clearly don't GAS, or at least it's at the bottom of a list which will never be got to and dealt with.

I believe that it is illegal to drive on the pavement unless it is to access a property. So yes pavement parking is illegal. I think a lot of authorities ignore because once a lawyer gets into court they could say that the vehicle was 'lifted' on to the pavement and not driven, therefore not illegal. Don't you just love UK law and it's loopholes 🙄
We have a local busy body who goes on social media to rant about newspapers boys & girls (kids) cycling on the pavements and got a woody for the local Police tackling it. However goes on an anti cycling rant when I pointed out about the number of cars parked on the pavements, far out weigh the number of cyclists on the pavements.
I firmly believe that the Authorities don't want to fine motorists for fear of losing votes. Personally I would like to see a zero tolerance clampdown, which would make the roads safer for all, as at the moment there doesn't appear to be any rules. 😥

Interesting document IRC

From this, it can be inferred that a driver who places two wheels on the footway with the intention of allowing sufficient room for the free movement of traffic on the road cannot necessarily be said to be acting ‘unreasonably’

Wonder if a spate of flash mob parking on pavements outside town halls (or councillor's houses) may get someone to care...

Some people even forget to fold their wing mirrors in on the pavement side but as I'm a helpful chap I do it for them as I squeeze past.

Just key them as you squeeze past.

Relate ish. I live on a terrace of five houses, each 5m wide. 5 houses, five spaces. I don't think my neighbours even realise you can fill all five spaces with two Audi a3s. Inconsiderate wotsits. How is it hard to stack cars with less than 2m between them?

As tempted as I am two wrongs really don't make it right.

One of the worst cars for causing a genuine obstruction on my nursery run route regularly has his wing mirror flipped the wrong way or popped off. Still parks there every! single! day!

I so wish I had some Rad skillz and cold just ride over the roofs 😈

Perhaps without my 2 year old in the trailer though 😉

Some streets in south wales valleys have 2/3 of road full of parked cars, 1/3 actual road people can drive/cycle along. This is in some of the unhealthiest communities in Europe. This isnt pavement parking..obviously, but it shows how in just 40/50 years or so we've completely changed our urban landscape to enable lazy people to be a bit lazier.

i always found that if cars were parked on the pavement it was difficult to get the pram past without scratching them.

Hmmm I've found that too eddie11. I experience this most days on the school run (which I walk with our 2 boys). When the youngest was in a pushchair I accidentally knocked in wing mirrors or scraped the cars, there's no way I would walk on the road when I could damage cars and stick to the path. Although I believe parking on the pavement is not an offence as long as it isn't restricting its use, the road I use is about 4 cars width wide, plenty of space for cars to park both sides and still allow free flowing traffic. I think some people automatically think they need to put 2 wheels on the footpath to be properly parked.

We're allowed to walk over cars parked on the pavement, right?

I believe that for most urban areas, the centre of the road should be for car parking. To me this seems safer than having parked cars at the pavement obscuring the view.

[img] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Shops_in_Anniesland_-_geograph.org.uk_-_844048.jp g" target="_blank">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Shops_in_Anniesland_-_geograph.org.uk_-_844048.jp g"/> [/img]

Can't be that difficult to park in the middle of the road if suitably marked.

Realistically, too much car use, something that even Jeremy clarkson alluded to in his top gear feature on bikes.

This topic is deserving of a national debate as regards how we get around.

Apologies for the hijack, but within cities at least it would be more efficient to designate road use according to vehicle size, cos let's face it, lorries and cyclists don't mix, thus;

Green lane: bikes, vehicles for the disabled, skateboards

Blue lane: light/ efficient cars, motorbikes, taxis

Red lane: buses, lorries, Chelsea tractors

And a mandatory 15 mph limit ...

I think some people automatically think they need to put 2 wheels on the footpath to be properly parked.

I've noticed this. My OH's parents live on quite a narrow close where everyone parks with two wheels on the pavement. There isn't much traffic (motor or pedestrian) going along it, only people who live there or are visiting people who do, and the pavement is wide enough to still leave room.

We usually park on our drive at home, but recently we had a skip on the drive and parked on the road (incidentally I'm still trying to work out the logic behind having to pay for a permit to put a skip on the road when you can park on the road for free - my car is a similar size to a skip and given that we both cycle to work, it doesn't move much more often either). My OH instinctively put two wheels on the pavement before I asked him what he was doing - the road is more than wide enough for cars to pass each other even with cars parked on each side. I guess it's just what he's used to and he doesn't think any more.

I'm still trying to work out the logic behind having to pay for a permit to put a skip on the road when you can park on the road for free

Well cars can be moved much more easily than skips.

Apologies for the hijack, but within cities at least it would be more efficient to designate road use according to vehicle size

Nah, that's segregation. Bad idea.

If you own more cars than you have parking spaces, you are common. Fact.

@molgrips

What's wrong with segregating traffic according to size?

IMHO, the main reason people don't cycle on roads is perceived safety...until you can demonstrate otherwise we will have as much luck prising people out of their 4x4s than shifting drunks at closing time.

Segregation is exactly what we should be aiming for.

Nah, that's segregation. Bad idea.

A bit of paint on the road sure as shit isn't working around here.