Patios or decking….advice and tips

This is a great resource https://www.pavingexpert.com/

Premix will likely cost many times more than buying bulk bags and mixing your own. But you could save hours of time using a resin brush in mortar, like Romex Rompox.

Patio easily beats decking.

I did ours. Took about 3 days, not going very hard at it, to do about 25m2. It's mostly reclaimed concrete slabs, all free, and few bought ones to finish off. Nothing too fancy but they have a slight texture and it looks ok imo. It's got a decent sub base and full mortar bed and has been solid.

Im opting for paving in the front garden.

Reason is ease of maintenance. Wooden decking needs a fair bit of care,whereas stone is far easier to clean.

I could do the decking myself, but for reasons above Im spending the extra on having a tradesman do it. For me its not the money, it's im a lazy bugger 😆 though in all honesty with there seemingly being more rain about, at least in my garden there seems to be a tendency for moss to grow. Getting that off stone is going to be easier in the long run.

My sisters got decking, and she has taken the time to apply a finish to it every few years so it has lasted at least 20 years noow, but parts of it, the fencing,rails etc as well as the sides of it are beginning to rot, and it will need replacing as a whole probably within 5 years. Again with stone its a one outlay of funds and thats it.

That link is useful, busy reading thanks!

I think patio has beat deck as it’s what the wife wants,  millboard looks nice but at £120ish m2 for the planks she likes we will be giving it a miss!  Shame as I prefer the look of wood and am much more confident with working with wood (well plastic)

I like a good project and I've also got short arms and long pockets, so i had a crack at laying a new patio here. Roughly 65mtr2 indian sandstone with sleeper borders, decent fall into a channel drain, plus cable ducting underneath for lighting.

Dug the old one out and made bigger, the prep work and sub base was by far the largest bulk of the work, took 4 or 5 weekends to get the shape and base ready (150mm crush n run compacted in places!). Slabs were laid on full wet mix with slurry'd backs still took some time though. Realistically 10mtr2 a day mixing my own in a mixer from bulk. Don't ask about the pointing....

Pavingexpert above is an absolute godsend, wouldn't have even contemplated it without that. Just don't put a time frame on it, or at least don't underestimate the work required.

Oh and keep your eye out for bargains,  I got all the slabs in a sale for £450!

From this

To this

Nice effort.

Take it you installed deck posts then changed your mind?

Nope, the 4 around the square but is for a pergola/roof thing, when I get round to it.

I was going to string lights across from there back towards the camera but now I'm not sure, so might cut them off.

All the posts are dug 2ft into the ground so they also support the sleepers to stop them creeping.

@dt78 I've a mixer you can borrow.

@nixie thanks for the kind offer!  my neighbour has one, he has lent it in the past but can be a bit funny occassionaly so I may well drop you a line.  Project won't be started until sept at the earliest as not much chance of progress whilst the kids on hols

@fettlin that looks awesome, you have a fantastic view!  mines the side of a house 🙂

Any recommendations for where to source the stone from?  Probably going to be indian sandstone

I'm looking at our local builders merchants, Covers,

and question for you fettlin - how do you stop water pooling on the edges of the patio against the sleepers?  Or is that not an issue?

I did loads of work in my garden six years ago, including a decked area and a patio. The patio still looks lovely and just needs a jet wash each spring. The decking is starting to rot quite badly (despite my treating it each year since installing it) and will probably be ripped out next year (granted, it is wood, not composite – as the OP says, that stuff is silly money).

Think we've been lucky- put down c40 sq metres of deck over 2 levels 21 years ago. Replaced a few boards over the years (wife insisted on putting pot plants on it) but the frame & posts are holding up.

Only cost c£1500 then (for the timber, built it ourselves) shudder to think of the cost now when it does need doing. If we are to replace it like for like vs a different plan for the garden, have to juggle cost/time/my age. Would be nice to get some more years from it but not long to go until I hit 60!

Oh yes, standards are slipping-  no mention of patios best to hide bodies under!

Bodies are under the extension….

materials alone for composite deck are north of 6k

looks like I can get sandstone flags for 2 - 2.5k plus cement

been reading that site.  The patio is to go over an existing concrete slab from the old garage, an old path and a bit of the old patio.  I’m told I should be taking all that up and laying a new sub base,  this is a massive and expensive job.

I cut in some fence posts last week ans I was still hitting concrete 60cm below the slab.  There is literally tonnes of the stuff and it’s solid

so, I’m not planning on taking it out, and paving over the top.

question anyone paved over an existing solid surface, did it go hideously wrong?  I was just going to cement them down to the existing concrete, possibley give it a key as it’s currently smooth

I did our 45m2 myself in 900x600 x 20 porcelain with 4mm joints.

dug out 30t of old crap, clay, soil and old slabs, barrowed in 15t of mot1, whackered, laid a semi dry concrete slab with SBR additive to 80mm, laid full bed wet mortar and slurried the backs.

Took 3 days solid to dig out and remove waste from site, 3 days to sort sub base and 3 days to lay Porcelain then 4hrs to grout after it had all set.  It was BLOODY hard work and I lay tiles for a living.

Everything had to be barrowed in and mixed in garden.  On top of all this I replaced the 6 panels of fencing including new posts with smooth planned 70x20 timber and built raised areas with Oak sleepers (16 of the bloody heavy things) and finished all the edges with black basalt.

3 weeks total of back breaking work.  Having said that, all the garden work cost me £5100,   which was £1500 paving, £1000 for sub base materials, £1000 for fencing, £600 for the sleepers , £600 skips, £200 decorative gravel, £200 sundries.  I was quoted £19,500 and I’d never trust anyone to take the care and attention I did over it.

The problem with working over an existing bases/structure is that the soil/gravel at the edges will settle differently to that over the existing stuff. So you *could* dig out around the existing bases and add a concrete foundation/extension/layer (and drainage, possibly rebar) before you put the base for the flagstones down, that would mitigate to a significant degree.

It's definitely a belt and braces solution though.

The decking is starting to rot quite badly (despite my treating it each year since installing it) and will probably be ripped out next year (granted, it is wood, not composite – as the OP says, that stuff is silly money).

In six years!! Jesus. I put down a very ropey temporary deck, actually in the garden, no footings or anything, just 2x6 resting edge on in grooves cut in the grass. It was only meant to be there for a couple of years until we had the cash to do it properly.

There was one tiny bit of rot when i took up the "temporary" deck nine years later. No treatment and 9 years of the worst weather that Sweden could throw at it.

I'm definitely expecting it to be hard work!  And I don't mind that as I can no longer afford a gym sub each month 🙂

I've extended an old slab for the shed I built a couple of years ago.  I used rebar to tie it in.  Seems absolutely fine 2 years later, and that old slab was in much worse state, as it had big cracks and had dropped slightly in one corner.  Neighbour reckons its laid on top of the ww2 bomb shelter.

Old garage slab is much nicer and has put up with diggers and dump trucks being driven all over it, so I have no worries about it failing.  It will be more about how to get it to the right fall and ensure the cement sticks to it - SBR bonding agent looks like it'll sort the sticking.  Getting the level will be more tricky than if you were laying mot and whacking it down.

Reckon I will dig out the adjoining section which is the old patio.  Presume this will need a concrete subbase or the 2 bases could move at different rates and I could get a crack where the two meet?

I could ask for a tame bricky to give me a hand, but he'll be minium £250 a day, probably more now and likely I will have to wait till next year for him to maybe fit me in.

45m of Indian sandstone for 2 maybe 2.5 , I just bought 2 packs 40m2 £800 inc vat
Are you paying their boat trip from India
20mm calibrated, I'd hope with your price they are 40mm

@redmex can you give a link?  have they been delivered and are you happy with the quality?

This is exactly why I'm asking on here!

In six years!! Jesus. I put down a very ropey temporary deck, actually in the garden, no footings or anything, just 2×6 resting edge on in grooves cut in the grass. It was only meant to be there for a couple of years until we had the cash to do it properly.

Yep - to say we are gutted is an understatement. The materials were all bought from a reputable local supplier too. I suppose it's way too late to go back to them, although I am considering at least speaking to them to get advice.

Beatsons in Dunfermline, Travis Perkins along the road were selling grey 360 +vat , sunset buff or whatever name 390+ vat
Pack sizes differ some are 15m2 so look for 19m2 crate
Jewsons £600 +vat but still well below your 2k

Just checked jewsons, the cheapest they do is 360 / 15m2 all the way up to 3.7k/17m2 for the most expensive sandstone.

Massive variation on essentially the same material.

Going to have to take a look at them, what is the bets the missus will want the most expensive stuff

although I am considering at least speaking to them to get advice.

Shy folks get nowt...

I've heard rumour that the way one or two of our national chains deals with it is to give you x kronor per sqm if your deck rots before the 15 year warranty on the wood is out, because it's all but impossible to "repair" the rotten bits, and even harder to prove that it's inside/outside warranty, or even if they sold it to you in the first place!

Effectively just a good will/shut up payment.

The other thing is that decks round here are in many cases living creatures, the one i built to replace the temporary deck has been remodelled once (new railings and steps), extended (~30 sqm to ~55 sqm), then another tweak to steps. The wood has come from at least 4 different suppliers. I'm doing some more extension next week as well.

My near neighbour put one up two years ago, started the first upgrade/extension before he'd even finished the handrail, the second extension (upper level on the hillside) has footings in now...

Presume this will need a concrete subbase or the 2 bases could move at different rates and I could get a crack where the two meet?

That's the risk, yes, differential settling.

FWIW, the block paving i have at the front of the house needs shit loads more looking after than the decking at the back. And has all sorts of issues around run off/settling etc. And yes, it was properly laid, with drainage and suchlike. Just glad the run off is away from the house.

@DT78, thanks, it was (and still is!) a lot of work, but now we can see the view it's worth it.

Pooling isn't an issue, all the slabs slope down to the drain, so there are 4 different falls in there! Works better than I expected tbf, but again it was a lot of prep work to set the levels. I nearly ran out of fall working back to the far wall of sleepers.

Check all the sites you can and search product codes rather than names, there was a massive difference in price for essentially the same sandstone slabs from different suppliers, all from the same source though. I think mine was an end of season sale to clear the yard. Make friends with your local aggregate yard, buying sharp sand by the wagon delivered makes a big difference as well. Likewise buying cement, christ that's gone expensive again, £2 a bag more from the same place in two years!

Could you design around the join in concrete slab and new? eg can you put a linear drain along the join and set fall from both sides in to it? Would 'hide' any slip in level.

We have composite decking. Looks great and works well. But the substructure is treated softwood and is rotting. I like the finish but if doing again I’d probably go patio or steel substructure with wooden battens just to mount the decking to. Ours is raised a couple of feet to meet the back door though. After five years of little maintenance, the composite still looks like new.

Project won’t be started until sept at the earliest as not much chance of progress whilst the kids on hols

No bad thing, you don’t want to be digging in august. Wait till oct even for the soil to soften.

question anyone paved over an existing solid surface, did it go hideously wrong?

Not quite, but I’ve built a decking over a paving! Wood will at least handle some movement, paving won’t tolerate any movement of the sun base without showing cracks.
Mines built on a frame of 3x2cls on plastic packers over the (good solid) paving as a sun base.

I didn’t come here to talk you into wood (especially as it was none of your original options) but if you do go that way, and you want to avoid the “quality slipping” that’s been mentioned above, talk to cocking sawmill (I note covers are your local builders merchant so assume Chichester area). Get them to fetch some larch from west dean woods, have them plane it for you and build your deck from that. Was ~£50/m2 for me but that was pre covid. 6 years later it’s solid. But you’ll need to maintain it every year. Patio might be right for you and wife.

Oh, and another thought. Glad you’re willing to go for the hard work. Was scrolling old pictures the other day and one from the year I built the deck and also a big workshop, the wife exclaimed “jeez, look at the size of your arms!”

A different point of view, maybe.
We moved into a house last September. It soon became obvious it needed quite a bit of spending on it so instead of it being our final home we'll sell it in about 8 years. That means anything we spend will be an investment, not just diminishing our savings. There's scope to move it up a level or two in price if we do it well so good choices of improvement should turn a good profit.

We enlarged our horrid mix of wood decking, grotty slabs and gravel with some well laid pale cream porcelain. Yes, it's pricey but wow, it's excellent. Not a second of buyer's remorse.

It's a great place to spend time - especially as global warming means we're all going to be spending more evenings outside. And it's certainly lifted the value of the property by more than the price we paid.

Yes, we had landscapers in. That means it was done right and quickly. While I spent my time doing stuff I'm good at and enjoy, the carpentry and other internal work.

The patio is to go over an existing concrete slab from the old garage, an old path and a bit of the old patio.

And another P.O.V.

We had a very untidy, but solid, thin slab of concrete left over from an outbuilding demolition.

We tore down the outbuilding and most of the area is now home to a timber shed - but as the shed was smaller than the outbuilding, there was a fair size area of concrete that looked rubbish (and wasn't flat, or consistent - having been poured bit by bit as the ancient outbuilding was stretched and extended bit by bit).

The shed has proper drainage and the concrete is (now) dry. We went with decking. Circa 20 sq m. Looks tidy, matches the shed. No regrets about going the deck route. It will outlive our time in this house, easily.

The alternative for us was a metric fork ton of work digging up the existing concrete, disposing of it, and doing something else in its place, could have been more garden area, could have been patio.

For Ireland/GB - patio