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Not quite ready for one yet as our son is still nervous around dogs. However what are the pro's and cons between the two?
I've met a few Paterdales. They seem to have bags of character, much like Borders TBH.
What are owners thoughts?
If nothing else, you'll pay a huge premium on borders as they seem
To be incredibly fashionable at the moment.
Get a paterdale. Great little dogs. However both breeds will murder almost anything little and furry.
Our Patterdale's coming up to 3 years old and is a great dog to have around. Since getting her, 2 other family members and a friend have all gone out and got one too!
Full of character, obedient(mostly), fun(verging on mental), great with kids and incredibly friendly.
The dogs tend to be a bit more 'lively' than the bitches & the rough coated ones moult a fair bit when it's hot but I can't really think of any negatives. Typical terriers really.
Fell in love with this little fella in a pub in Norfolk a couple of years ago.
Would love to have one, but not now, not in a London flat!
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my dad and brothers have had patterdales since we were kids. great little dogs, some have been working lines too. just make sure you train them well, and as skink2020 says if you have any other pets keep them well locked up
if you have any other pets keep them well locked up
Had experience of this with a very male Westie. He had killed two birds and (sadly) one cat.
However both breeds will murder almost anything little and furry.
Not necessarily true - but it requires a bit of training to make the recall command from you stronger than their instinct to chase and kill something. (after all, it could be a child's guinea pig's face).
I've met more BTs than PTs. I reckon, PTs have been the feistier of the two.
Tbh hora, you couldn't manage with a flipping westie, so I dunno mate, maybe just volunteer as dog walker at the local dogs trust or RSPCA.
Our Border is coming up to three years old now and is so much fun to have around the house.
Nobby basically took the words out of my mouth, their Patterdale sounds exactly like our Border. Having spent a lot of time with Patterdales and owned a Border they're very similar dogs. Perhaps the borders are just that little bit more manic, the Patterdales have seemed (ever so slightly) more chilled.
The only issue with Borders is they moult, a lot if you don't strip them a couple of times a year.
Getting Dylan our Border was one of the best things we've ever done, we take him everywhere and wouldn't be without him now.
Both are great dogs and will be good with kids they love them, no not chew on their faces. As mentioned they're very much terriers so will sometimes have that kill anything streak.
Borders are very fashionable now as mentioned, I can't believe how popular they are now given when we first had them over 30 years ago most people didn't know what they were and I live where they originated. Just watch TV they appear on loads of adverts and hollywood films now.
Having spent a lot of time with Patterdales and owned a Border they're very similar dogs.
IIRC, I'm sure I read somewhere that they share ancestry (in breeding terms and with...ah bugger, I can't remember the other one).
The only issue with Borders is they moult, a lot if you don't strip them a couple of times a year.
This is pot luck I reckon. We don't strip Molly, and she doesn't moult that much at all.
Our Border grew up with my mum and dads cat and as such doesn't really bother about it apart from teasing the cat so it chases him...
Generally ours doesn't care about other animals but has taken off a couple of times after rabbits.
To be honest though (apart from another BT) I have no intention of having any other furry pets in the house so anything he kills he's welcome to.
they appear on loads of adverts
Yep. The one on the current Wickes paint advert comes to mind. Apparently, Andy Murray's border has her own twitter account... 😕
Deadly Darcy: Chomp. I managed fine with a Westie. You'd struggle to see any 7yr old Westie that was lean, muscular, 100% skin-problem free and could run with a bike off road. The issue was he was 'the' baby for 7yrs then a little boy came along and a year later started pulling the dogs ears and following him around. There was a dramatic and sudden change in Bingo- he became very anxious, distressed and turned. Still, hes very happy now 
I'd challenge you to have a stronger, healthier Westie that wasn't fed treats, bad foods and was very well exercised. To date I've only seen one other Westie that was in similar condition and that was a Fell runners.
Bingo shiftin' (courtesy of SFB)
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Fell in love with this little fella in a pub in Norfolk a couple of years ago
Whereabouts? He could be related to mine...
There's a chocolate brown Patty in a pub we go to sometimes. She's properly feisty, but to be fair to her, she's absolutely gorgeous.
IIRC, I'm sure I read somewhere that they share ancestry (in breeding terms and with...ah bugger, I can't remember the other one).
Patterdales do share genes with Borders - in fact, they're an amalgamation of a number of different terriers including Lakeland, Fox & Bedlington (IIRC)
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Bedlington
Ah yes, that was the one I was trying to think of. I think you can see from BTs that they must have come out of a mix of a few different breeds. Maybe that accounts for the wide variation of size and the hardiness...Molly is around 4.5kg and plays with Frankie who is 11kg!! 😯
Our Border is great with kids but they can get very excitable when you've been away from them - even for 5 minutes to the shops! - which may not be a good trait if your son is nervous around dogs.
He has small dog syndrome as well, and can be aggressive to bigger dogs if you don't keep him in check.
This is pot luck I reckon. We don't strip Molly, and she doesn't moult that much at all.
No pot luck, the older strains don't moult you strip them the newer strains seem to moult. It's down to the breeding and the history.
No pot luck, the older strains don't moult you strip them the newer strains seem to moult. It's down to the breeding and the history.
Ah ok, point taken. Is there anything wrong with not stripping them Drac? Molly would look like a rat if we stripped her 😳
Why not just do what your hearts been telling you to do, all along. Put the lad into care, there are loads of care homes in Rochdale... they've had the odd one or two issues recently, but nowt to worry about, and get yourself another dog. Maybe two
We strip our dog in summer to keep him cool (he hates hot weather), and then let it grow longer in the winter. Its easy to do yourself and quite therapeutic.
Ah yes, that was the one I was trying to think of. I think you can see from BTs that they must have come out of a mix of a few different breeds. Maybe that accounts for the wide variation of size and the hardiness...Molly is around 4.5kg and plays with Frankie who is 11kg!!
Bedlington Terrier and Dandie Dinmonts, again the size thing. Well don't set me off, original strains they were small dogs you'd never see one the size some of them are now. With them becoming so popular the breeding has now become well a bit more errrmmm relaxed. So you get some bloody huge Borders that dwarf all the ones I've owned including the current one.
even for 5 minutes to the shops!
Or just taking the bin out :-/
So you get some bloody huge Borders that dwarf all the ones I've owned including the current one.
I must admit, I do often wonder about some of the gigantic males I've met recently. Sorry, did you catch my earlier q re. stripping?
Hora
If you can get your hands on a book by D.Brian.Plummer "The Lakeland Terrier" lots of references to both Border and Patterdales as regarding their temperament.
Both hunting terriers so expect the chasing aggression etc comes with the breed
Ah ok, point taken. Is there anything wrong with not stripping them Drac? Molly would look like a rat if we stripped her
No, they should be stripped they always use to be.
This is the BT [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Border-Terrier-Anne-Roslin-Williams/dp/0952409550/ref=sr_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348490280&sr=1-12 ]bible [/url] from one of the early breeders. It'll tell you the full history of them and the original strains, why they were bred and how to look after them.
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Will have a look for those books.
She says "Shurrup Drac, I like being a scruffbag!" 🙂
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binbins, Immagonna try and breed a grey strain of BT. I take it you'll be placing your order.
will it eat my cat?
will it eat my cat?
Yes
will it eat my cat?
No, not if you get it as a puppy. £500?
I always knew you weren't a dog person binners but you have a cat? You really are [i]gay[/i] aren't you. 😈
Patterdales are very tenacious and really don't care too much about size [of teeth] 😀
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If I get it as a puppy, its quite possible the cat may kill it. Its a right malevolent little bastard.
Why does owning an animal that doesn't stink, and possesses the good sense to disregard its own poo have implications for my sexuality 😕
Yup DD that's about right my last one use to a huge puff ball like that, my current just get tatty and scruffy. He's needing done now just need to find time to sort him.
It's not just ours then Jota180?
She likes to bitch slap various friends dogs including a Rottie, Mastiff & and Old Time Dorset Bulldog!
Hora - email me & I'll send you Sean Frain's book on PD's if you're interested.
Nobby,
Pretty sure it was the Dabbling Duck in Great Massingham, December 2010. What do you reckon?
We left the car there and did a big, long, winter's day walk up Peddars Way and back. Blue skies, crisp and clear, wrapped up warm, got back after dark, pint in front of the fire in the pub. Corker of a day!
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Pretty sure it was the Dabbling Duck in Great Massingham, December 2010.
Possibly, but ours came from a farm about Southrepps where the fella has bred 'em for years (since bringing 'em down from Cumbria). A few of the local hostelries have one these days.
the-muffin-man - Member
Our Border is great with kids but they can get very excitable when you've been away from them - even for 5 minutes to the shops! - which may not be a good trait if your son is nervous around dogs.
But if it's from a pup it can be trained not to jump when you come home, ours loves kids
the-muffin-man - Member
He has small dog syndrome as well, and can be aggressive to bigger dogs if you don't keep him in check
Seconded, especially to Staffies or any other dog that will rip his head off.
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And Archie loves water and the sea
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Ours hates swimming and only goes up to his chest, he does love jumping waves with the kids though.
But if it's from a pup it can be trained not to jump when you come home
😆
Reminds me with Molly...she sits on her bum and sort of taps her feet with excitement. She does fail sometimes and ends up jumping - thankfully, not with strangers. Her excitement last night after not seeing me for two weeks made my heart swell a little when I got home. 😳
She flipping hates swimming too. 😐
Our two old Borders are chalk and cheese (well Esme and Jezibel). One was fiesty enough to face up to anything that moved (bullock in a field memorably once) and the other would run off from most dogs. It depends what you get.
We've had cats for years without a problem. Now got two manic 5month old British Shorthair kittens running around and no issues.
My dog is Patterdale crossed with jack Russell....hilarious dog, all the energy of a Jack with the Patterdale just taking the edge off the snappiness....but as others have said, Patterdales are equally as tenacious if the mood takes them, he once spent all day...yes all flipping day...digging a rat out from under the shed in the garden...wouldnt come in for food, just totally focused on the task in hand, got the rat in the end the little minx!
Nice size too, bigger than a Jack but smaller than a Lab, black with white chest and paws, stunning....i'd happily have another, luckily a breeder near us specifically crosses these two dogs for this end result.
The "Patterjack" is becoming increasingly common round here too.
Edit: If anyone ever comes up with a "patterdoodle" I may have to murder them to death.
where are you hora? we're in sheffield and love our border. he's bonkers and brilliant with kids, if you're local i wouldn't mind meeting up and your son could meet him.
it's all in the training. the coat on ours doesn't strip like a normal border and he's a full pedigree with history coming out of his ar*e but hey he's full of character and fit as a fit thing.
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He's a black and tan they have different coats to weaten and red grizzles.
a month ago you were worrying about being out of a job. don't get a dog.
a month ago you were worrying about being out of a job. don't get a dog.
Why not?
Surly being at home all day can only be a good thing.... 😉
Pook youll realise one day that near on a grand comes out of your pocket every month when you have a kid in nursery 😉
Hora forgive me if I get this wrong and accepting I cannot be arsed to read the whole thread etc. But are you not the guy who had a wastie and found it too terrier like? Now your thinking of patterdales or borders!!
Read further up ^
Ok. I have read the entire thread and still think you should not get another terrier, especially a border or a pat as they are all much closer to working dogs than most other terriers. Get a lab or a lurcher but not a ver terrier like terrier.
Oh, I forgot to mention, she loves to travel by steam train 🙂
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Hora - so what are you doing with Zach while you spend on dog food?
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My patterjack Tilly after a hard day.
Paterdale 1 vs Border 1 so your call, personally I would have a patter.
But have nearly inherited a greyhound so this will be fun, never even contemplated having a dog seriously as I have grown up round pooty cats.
So this will definitely be intersting.
Ive obly ever been bitten by 3 dogs, two were Westies and one a Corgie. Westies arnt fond of small children. Oook have you calculated how much pook jnr will cost you? If you use a nursery I bet it 1,500 a month all in with food and nappies etc? 😉
Borders are better looking/cuter IMO i want one but mrs five says no (we already have a black lab BTW) 🙂
Ive obly ever been bitten by 3 dogs, two were Westies and one a Corgie
it's true that they can be very shrewd judges of character. 😆
dig you get a dog then?
Someone mention Lakeland!
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I dig ya dude..no not yet. This is a careful and measured exercise not a doggie for Christmas or 'just 7yrsdig you get a dog then?
😛 I'm still working my way through a book on Paterdales that a kind STW'er lent me 🙂
good good 🙂 good book?
Awesome dude but there was no chocolate present with the book 🙂
Our BT gets stripped twice a year as a rule. She's a lazy little madam and pretends to want to go out when she really prefers staying in the warm and dry. Would maybe get a P'Dale next for a change.
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stripped? whats wrong with a beard trimmer then a quick spin in the washing machine?
Awesome dude but there was no chocolate present with the book
Considering the subject...'chocolate present' could mean 😯
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Patterdale and a Border. Patterdale is mine, Border is my parent's.
The Border is getting a little old, fat and cranky, not to be trusted around my 18 month old daughter at all.
My Patterdale however loves my little girl, mainly down to getting fed from the table, and (some rather poor efforts at) throwing a ball for her. She's a tough little wotsit as well - she managed to get herself poisoned 10 days ago, and all the staff at the vets were rather amazed she lived through the first night, yet you'd never know she'd been ill to look at her today! Top dogs all round.
how much is pet insurance for this size dog?
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Simwits Mrs here! We have an 8 year old Patti who we adopted from rescue in July, he is a grand little chap!
He does have issues with his energy levels and he has to be managed carefully when playing and around strangers, kids and definitely footballs, he's not known as the piranha on legs for no reason. There are a lot of Patties in rescue as many people don't realise how terrier like they are, and find them difficult to manage. They are not all good around other dogs or kids and do have a wicked prey drive.
That said Toby is very smart and easy to train, has a super fun personality, loves cuddles, digs the garden on command and loves being in the house, he also loves a cuppa so we're having to remember not to leave them at nose level!
The only Patterdale I know well is a right little bastard and to be muzzled in public! And what's his bloody name?!? DARCY!! 😆 Having said that, I've met plenty other lovely ones.
Got a Border/lakeland cross.
Good in the woods,at home,and at sea.
[img] https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yek7UcODcRotOGTxFLcGdtBPsh7oUBC569XPelegy5w?feat=directlink [/img]How about a Red Fell? Biggest little dogs around! This is Louis; Scared of nuffin, yet the gentlset dog around children. Up for anything, wants to know whats going on and needs to be a part of it. Just like an old fashioned Border. Trouble is, Borders are, lie Westies, becoming a victim of their own popularity. Lazy breeding means that some are losing their character and toughness. Patterdales don't suffer from that... yet.