[Closed] Party Wall Act 1996 - we have been served. What now???

It's not a waiver, they need to seek permission. If they make a balls of it they're still liable.

You can refuse and ask for more details info before you'll agree

Thanks. Am I obliged to agree? And similarly, 9bliged to sign? Not sure I have any expertise to evaluate the detailed plan!

If you don't agree (and you don't have to) a dispute is deemed to have arisen and each party should appoint their own surveyor to agree a third surveyor to adjudicate on the dispute. It can get expensive fairly quickly.

I'd ask your neighbour if they're prepared to pay for you to instruct a surveyor to review the plans. Probably cheaper than them ending up in a dispute down the line.

Re: the timescales, to be effective party structure notices should be served at least two months before the work is due to commence. If they aren't, then the person wanting to have the work done doesn't have the protection of the act unless you agree.

IIRC They have to pay your surveyor costs...

Thanks and v halpful. We think work is due to start imminently and they nicely asked us to sign asap.

If they're not covered by the Act, what does that mean.

And just to mention, I'm not at all against their plans and don't want to create unnecessary hassle.

If you don't sign they shouldn't start and they will be quite inconvenienced. It is a bit poor from them not to give more notice, but also it will be a bit poor from you to hold them up, especially if you don't mind. You can instruct a surveyor and get them to pay for it if you really want but I wouldn't bother as it doesn't sound like they are doing anything too crazy. We've had one from both neighbours previously and just signed it. Good neighbourly relations are well worth having. If it goes wrong their builder should be insured. I suppose you could ask to check if they are a member of any accreditation scheme and for a copy of their liability insurance certificate

If they are digging below the level of your foundations, close to the boundary, at a minimum I'd want a survey(independent from their builders/architect) of the state of your property, interior and exterior, before they start, at their expense. Fortunately that's exactly what the Party Wall Act is designed to facilitate, so don't (let them) cut corners. You signing doesn't rob you of right to recourse, but if you don't have a survey done before the work starts, how will you back up any case you have?

We had to do this with neighbours in Sheffield. As above you need to give 2 months notice IIRC.

I paid for a consultant structural engineer to look at the plans and undertake a quick site visit, answering all my neighbours questions. The neighbour chose their own person - and so had independent advice on both the legality and the technicality of what we proposed.

After an hour's visit the neighbour was happy to sign.

You ought to have external advice, particularly as it sounds like you are unsure of things and are being pushed into a rapid agreement. Things may be all good,  but better to check.

If you are not 'covered' by an agreement, you can push back against something the neighbour has done at some point in the future IIRC, and they would *have* to comply. It is in their urgent and best interests to make an agreement with you.

If they’re not covered by the Act, what does that mean.

It means they are not authorised to carry out the works. Essentially the PWA is to protect the owner from claims from the neighbour by setting out a framework to agree permission for works and compensation for any damage.

but also it will be a bit poor from you to hold them up, especially if you don’t mind.

It is absolutely not poor form to hold up someone wanting to do work to a party wall and not properly complying with the PWA. It's your statutory right.

I wouldn’t bother as it doesn’t sound like they are doing anything too crazy.

Oh, well, nickjb on STW says it's fine - crack on!

Even if it's not major works I would still get some form of agreement drawn up to protect both parties. Structural works can be very involved even if they seem simple and at worst if it all goes wrong you could be looking at years to get it put right. I recently heard from someone whose neighbours did a load of work without a PWA, sold up without declaring it to their buyers and left both neighbour and buyers with a huge problem. Yes, you can resolve it by going to law but that is massively expensive and time consuming.

if it goes wrong their builder should be insured.

The builder isn't liable for breach of the PWA. The neighbour is. They builder may be liable for any damage caused but you would have to prove negligence - whereas the PWA gives you a right to be compensated for any damage.

And don't always assume the builder is insured - I'm currently dealing with a million-pound project where the builder has let all of his insurances lapse.

Is it just me that thinks it's a bit mental they wouldn't either call or come see you to talk about this first? Seems to be the modern way...

And don’t always assume the builder is insured – I’m currently dealing with a million-pound project where the builder has let all of his insurances lapse.

Even if they are the insurer can refuse to pay out....

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/mar/13/family-bill-insurer-claim-house-loft-renovation

Hmm, that does look quite a lot like there's more going on to that story. The alleged non-disclosure should be material to the risk and a CCJ for a parking ticket would not be. If the other two are for dodgy works leading to other houses collapsing then that might be okay, but if they're also like the parking ticket one I reckon that would be challengeable fairly easily.

As far as I know it is normal for you to have them pay for a surveyor of your choice to assist you. They should have offered this? If not, bad form.

100% do this if you are unsure of anything, and perhaps even if you think you are.

Oh, well, nickjb on STW says it’s fine – crack on!

I stated what I would do and in fact have done. Fortunately for me the neighbours in question did the same thing when we extended. All was fine so none of us ended up spending hundreds of pounds on something that ultimately wasn't needed.

I stated what I would do and in fact have done.

Likewise, terraced house and both neigbours have had extensions. In both case a cursory glance at their plans and just signed it.

Interestingly an Ambulance chasing style Party Wall Surveyor company must have seen one of their applications on the council website and speculatively wrote to me listing all the ways the neighbour's extension could collapse my house into a pile of rubble and how I needed their services. They recommended lots of big holes dug all over the place to analyse the ground make up. Would have probably cost £1000s.

All was fine so none of us ended up spending hundreds of pounds on something that ultimately wasn’t needed.

Great, well done. But what if it was? For the sake of a few hundred pounds now OP could save tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds down the line by making his neighbours comply with their statutory obligations.

Not trying to get them to do anything out of the ordinary - just what they are actually obliged to do.

could save tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds down the line

The odds of that happening are exceptionally low....

So you have to balance getting on with your neighbours against that. If they've gone through planning and BC highly unlikely anything will actually go wrong.

just what they are actually obliged to do.

I bet lots of people leave it to the last minute as they don't realise it needs doings till work is about to start.

The odds of that happening are exceptionally low….

They're not. In fact, in my experience, the odds of a job actually being done properly and not experiencing problems are low! Given your home is your most valuable asset, and a structural problem could a) cause thousands of pounds-worth of damage, b) blight your home until fixed, c) devalue your home even if fixed because you'll need to disclose it to potential purchasers, it's probably worth spending a little now (which should be paid for by your neighbours under the PWA!) to ensure everything is done properly or if it's not, there's adequate recourse under any properly-constituted Award to deal with it if not.

It's fine to say just crack on mate on a single story actually it's not.
Round by me they are buying a house mostly semi detached and almost knocking them down going up to 3 story and back due to the large gardens.
You need your own ducks in row and be a bit savvy as the builder won't bother too much, planning are understaffed.
It's not rude to your new neighbours to make sure it's all ship shape and legal as it protects you both if it goes tits up I would be happy to pay your fees to keep my new next door bezzy mates happy

You have 14 days to respond in writing to the letter they have given you, so they should realise that it is entirely reasonable for you to have time explore your options even if their plans seem on the surface to be OK by you.

Assuming you have been served a Notice of Adjacent Excavation under the PW etc Act, it should give you one month's notice and you have 14 days to respond (either consent or dissent). If you don't there is a deemed "dispute" and you have to appoint a Surveyor (or agree to your neighbour's Surveyor acting for you). Either way the neighbour pays the Surveyors fees. If you consent you need to reserve your rights and, I would suggest, ask for a detailed record of the condition of your property to be prepared before any works under the Act proceed.

It is a bit poor from them not to give more notice,

I suspect is not being troublesome but linked to

Neighbours have sold their house and new buyers, yet to move in, have extensive building plans,

Moving in and then starting building works vs the option to do the building works before moving in sounds sensible if you can. And of course they'd want it done asap, who wants to own a house and be renting / living in a hotel / parents spare room or whatever any longer than they have to.

Personally I'd follow squirrel's advice. You would be entirely reasonable doing so. Also sets the context of them not taking the p later

If you don’t already have a good trusting relationship with the neighbours I’d recommend appointing a surveyor. The main benefit I see is in having an accurate, independent record of the state of the property before the works start. If anything goes wrong during the works (eg cracks start appearing in walls) it gives you a much greater chance of claiming for damage. And while it’s called a ‘dispute’ in reality you’re just exercising your right to appoint a surveyor at their cost.

I’ve been through this both when extending our house, and also when the house next door was extended. In both cases a surveyor was appointed, no troubles. IMO it’s a cost that should be factored into any build that falls under the act.

Upload the plans and photos, bound to be a surveyor on here.

Thanks all, v helpful.

Sounds like the correct and reasonable action is to nicely ask for an independent survey to be done.

Will pop plans up later when I'm home

If you don’t already have a good trusting relationship with the neighbours I’d recommend appointing a surveyor. The main benefit I see is in having an accurate, independent record of the state of the property before the works start. If anything goes wrong during the works (eg cracks start appearing in walls) it gives you a much greater chance of claiming for damage. And while it’s called a ‘dispute’ in reality you’re just exercising your right to appoint a surveyor at their cost.

I’ve been through this both when extending our house, and also when the house next door was extended. In both cases a surveyor was appointed, no troubles. IMO it’s a cost that should be factored into any build that falls under the act.

Yup. We had some work done which included a steel going into the party wall. We get on with our neighbours but understandably they were nervous so we agreed to pay for them to appoint their own surveyor to review our plans. I can't remember the cost but it wasn't that much, particularly as a % of the build.

I bet lots of people leave it to the last minute as they don’t realise it needs doings till work is about to start.

That was me. Spoke to both neighbours when I took the letter around and explained to them what it was about and what they needed to consider. Both didn't give a crap. Think it depends alot on the proximity of the neighbours house, the depth of your foundations etc. I remember studying a diagram on it as it was touch and go if I needed to do it at all based upon all those parameters. Obviously if the neighbours house is very close then there is a higher chance of issues. Despite the borderline case I decided to err on the side of caution. If they had wanted a survey done I would have had to swallow that and crack on, but would have probably tried to argue sharing of the costs on the basis of all the planning and design work done and the low risk nature of it in my case.