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My partner bought a old Ford KA for her daughter the other day. Purchased from a little trader who has about 4 cars on his lot and a portacabin.
After paying for it and signing a hand written invoice which said, "sold as seen, no refund and no return" she drove it home. 20 mins in the Engine management light pops on. Takes to a garage who say probably ECU gone. More expensive than the car is worth. She spoke to the "trader" who roundly fobbed her off.
So question is do her rights under the Consumer Rights Act still apply even though she signed the invoice with the above wording ? I'll probably go after him with a rejection of the car anyway, but I'm not altogether sure he's even a registered dealer.
Cheers all.
Can't help with that but 1.3 kas will be ten a penny in the scrappy. An ECU will be easy to remove on these. You need an ECU and the key/transponder. Half hour job if you know what your doing and about £40. Always an option
If it's a private sale you have very few rights. If it's a trader they cannot legally do "sold as seen." You cannot waive statutory rights, that's what "statutory" means.
STW, yesterday:
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/options-for-being-sold-duff-car-by-motor-trader/
I'll wager he's either going to be in bother with Trading Standards or the tax man.
Standard how did you pay question?
She paid Cash.
The crap written on the invoice means nowt if this guy is a dealer rather than a private trader. But it will still be a struggle to enforce statutory rejection rights. You can have a go, and involve trading standards, but much as I hate to say it, Olly's suggestion is a good one. Kas always used to be rust-buckets so there should be plenty of decent engine bits knocking around at scrap yards.
As Cougar says. Tell the trader you're bringing it back, not fit for purpose and want a refund - so does he want you to take it by yourself, or bring Trading Standards with you?
I think there should be a legal obligation to supply an OBD scan with every car sale.
Can’t help with that but 1.3 kas will be ten a penny in the scrappy. An ECU will be easy to remove on these. You need an ECU and the key/transponder. Half hour job if you know what your doing and about £40.
Yeah, good luck. You'll have to find a donor car with the exact same engine version and combination of ancillary components, which will be difficult. Dunno about Ford but VW change sensors and bits of wiring from time to time even on cars with the same engine version. Ask me how I know, go on, I dare you 🙂
it will still be a struggle to enforce statutory rejection rights.
I've had plenty of mileage* from the phrase, "just so we're clear, can you confirm that you're refusing to honour my statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015?" People tend to backpedal quite quickly then IME.
Buying a used car from a dealer it has to be fit for purpose as Greybeard said, of satisfactory quality, and as described (either in the advert or verbally). It sounds like you meet at least two of those. From there you're entitled to reject the car for a full refund or seek compensation - ie, the cost of repairs - if you want to keep it. You have 30 days in which to do this and you don't have to accept a repair if you don't want.
If it's a private seller then it basically just has to be as described and roadworthy, the onus is on the buyer to check it out before purchase.
(* - see what I did there? Oh please yourselves.)
Here.
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-to-complain-about-a-second-hand-car-to-a-dealer
The problem is that the seller will be well aware of their responsibilities and will doubtless have been down this road many times before and they know that all but the very determined will give up trying to get a refund due to the effort required. There was a post on the very subject on here last year and they had a very strong case but it still took monumental stubbornness on behalf of the purchaser before they eventually got their refund.
You cannot waive statutory rights, that’s what “statutory” means.
This. Although I'll be honest if someone wrote that by hand on an invoice I don't think they'd be getting any more of my attention thereafter.
Alternatively; add to his clause, that in return for waiving your statutory rights, he waives his legal rights to not have his feet nailed to his office floor by your evil brother-in-law and his evil mates. It's on paper, so must be legit?
I'd go straight to Trading Standards.
Dealer or dealer masquerading as a 'private' seller?
As Greybeard said, offer to return car with full refund by yourself, or do the same but WITH Trading Standards.
Sellers choice.
Trading Standards will be interested.
HMRC might also be interested.
but it still took monumental stubbornness on behalf of the purchaser
Lowey goes hike-a-bike in the Lakes throughout the year for his kicks so he should have that in spades.
Where abouts did you get it from.
I'd be surprised the ecu is toast. I've a code reader I can plug in n have a check too see what's coming up.
If it's not connecting I'd say bad earth or wiring fault.
Engine management light could be any number of things, unlikely to be the ecu especially if its running ok otherwise.
Problem with electrical faults is they can very often be intermittent and the trader may well have sold the car in good faith and been unaware of any issue.
Regards just hooking it up to a OBD reader and reading the codes a lot of the codes thrown up can be very generic and cover a whole host of sensors, so really you still need to do a proper fault finding exercise anyway.
Any dealer who writes "sold as seen" on an invoice is not acting in good faith.
Love it , the ECU is saying 'The ECU is borked'
It might be , but it also might not be , could be 1 of 12 -ish things to throw a code
Get all the codes deleted , then get it re scnned as soon as the eml pops back on.
They do sometimes trigger associated codes tho
Better still, throw it back at the dealer, then buy something japenese
Can’t help with the legal side of things but before spending any money on the car have a good look under it as the original shape ones rust like nothing else out there. Sills , and anywhere near a suspension mount.
Plus side they are normal cheap to fix as lots of used bits out there or new crappy bits off eBay
I think there should be a legal obligation to supply an OBD scan with every car sale.
Can’t help with that but 1.3 kas will be ten a penny in the scrappy. An ECU will be easy to remove on these. You need an ECU and the key/transponder. Half hour job if you know what your doing and about £40.
Yeah, good luck. You’ll have to find a donor car with the exact same engine version and combination of ancillary components, which will be difficult. Dunno about Ford but VW change sensors and bits of wiring from time to time even on cars with the same engine version. Ask me how I know, go on, I dare you
Coming from someone who played around with a lot of fords over the years I can tell you it's easy. A. I've done it. More than once. B. The 1.3 ohv Kent/crossflow/Valencia/high compression swirl/endura E Is super common and it isn't hard to work on. It's beyond basic. They sold in great numbers. They only had one engine varient bar the sport Ka. Easy job.
Drive it into his porta cabin 🙂
It seems your partner ignored every red flag when buying the car... how much are they into it for? If a few hundred then I might try and involve trading standards or someone on principal but I'd also be writing off the amount as a learning exercise and probably not planning to fight for months to try and get the money back
Cheers for your help. She got it repaired for £100. Was a faulty injector. She only paid 600 for it. I told her its a lesson learned, but buying a car that is one step up from the scrap yard will always have issues like this.
For 600 it just wasn't worth the hassle of taking him to court. Although I think I'll get the invoice and the report from the garage and send him the bill together with a letter quoting Consumer rights act. Just for the hell of it.
Could be worse. Pet hate of mine is when garages just mumble ecu is dead.
It's laziness pure n simple.
Dave if your ever looking at cars like that take me along buddy I've got 20yrs in the motor trade from fixing them to selling them.
Thanks Dunc.
You could always send him a load of glitter in the post
guy will be finding it for years.
I think I’ll get the invoice and the report from the garage and send him the bill together with a letter quoting Consumer rights act. Just for the hell of it.
Do it, but not for the hell of it. As a reminder; it's your statutory right, and given he fobbed her off when she asked him to fix it you're now claiming the cost of the repair from him, and will elevate to TS or further if the cheque isn't received in 14 days.
He's breaking the law and shouldn't get away with it even if it's 'only' £100, otherwise next time it'll be someone else on a £2000 car with a £500 repair bill, and so on. Bloke's a crook, pure and simple.