You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Well, I did... along with a few other traditional cheeses e.g. camembert, manchego. However I see this "shocking story" is doing the rounds as a clickbait article for local papers.
Was it not common knowledge?
Is this a rennet thing? Like with fondue and raclette cheeses.
Was it not common knowledge?
I didn't know, if that helps
IHN
Full MemberWas it not common knowledge?
I didn’t know, if that helps
Are you common?
Is this a rennet thing
Exactly and I believe the cheeses are protected origin, e.g. Parmigiano Reggiano can't be sold as such unless it is made with certain ingredients, in this case animal rennet.
I didn't know, and just this Saturday, I was laughing at a pizza menu that described its Margherita as non-veggie friendly, and assumed they meant non-Vegan
I didn’t know. And I guess if you were a vegetarian it’s something you may find useful.
I’m not a vegetarian, I have no idea what rennet is….and a little scared to google it! Please don’t put me off my cheese!
a pizza menu that described its Margherita as non-veggie friendly
If it's a true Margherita then it could be non-veggie due to Mozzarella di Bufala DOP being used
Morrisons one is, discovered this yesterday
I’m not a vegetarian, I have no idea what rennet is….
Don't worry, most of what you read on the internet will just be some regurgitated tripe.
will just be some regurgitated tripe.
Don't think rennet is regurgitated tripe, is it?
regurgitated tripe
🤣
I'm veggie, but just because I had really bad gout and needed a diet change. I couldn't cut out achohol completely (I tried, but it was dull) so don;t eat meat anymore, along with a few other things like Marmite! Cheese is about the best thing I have so I'm not cutting that out!!
Rennet is a complex set of enzymes produced in the stomachs of ruminant mammals. Chymosin, its key component, is a protease enzyme that curdles the casein in milk. In addition to chymosin, rennet contains other enzymes, such as pepsin and a lipase.
Rennet has traditionally been used to separate milk into solid curds and liquid whey, used in the production of cheeses. Rennet from calves has become less common for this use, to the point that less than 5% of cheese in the United States is made using animal rennet today. Most cheese is now made using chymosin derived from bacterial sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet
Morrisons one is, discovered this yesterday
Are you sure? Everything I've read says it can never be Parmigiano Reggiano and vegetarian. Might be a veggie alternative or just incorrect information?
Vegetarian here, don't care becasue; cheese. This is the same for wine and clarifying agents
[S] Why would cheese make you not care about wine and clarifying agents? [/S]
Sorry, that was a stupid question. Because wine and cheese obviously.
See also isinglass in beer, and some wine. and chitin too (in wine).
There's definitely levels of give a toss amongst veggies and vegans. Some super strict, others less so. I guess it depends why you have chosen to be veggie/vegan. My wife describes herself as pescatarian but will happily eat jelly babies.
I'm nominally vegan and my hazy ethics are probably around not looking too hard at the beers and wine I drink, especially when out. And also honey and wool. I try and avoid honey, but I'm not not as strict about it as I probably should be. And I'm a bit conflicted about wool - as the petrochemical based alternatives seems to be cutting ones nose off. But as I make a point of never lecturing others on their choices or being particularly pious (or even mentioning it), I think I can probably live with some of my own hypocrisy.
Don’t let my mum hear you ask that…
You're Mark Thatcher, and you're going to admit that here? Brave fool, you'd get a better welcome in Equatorial Guinea.
along with a few other things like Marmite!
How can you stop eating Marmite?!?
More importantly for us addicts... how does it contribute to gout?
I knew this but choose to ignore the fact. There's quite a few desserts that are not vegetarian such as Aero Chocolate Mousse as they contain gelatine. I felt like such a bastard having to tell my daughter she was no longer allowed them after her (strict vegan) mother found out.
Completely fair enough if non-vegetarians don't know about things like rennet, but no excuse for caterers or cooks & chefs. It's eye-opening how little understanding of what goes in food when you have to check for things like that.
Cottage cheese and paneer are the safe veggie options, but outside of that it's a lottery in cafés/restaurants.
p.s. Sainsbury's Mary Ann's Dairy Hard Cheese makes a decent veggie pesto.
Don't start the cottage cheese debate again please.
I felt like such a bastard having to tell my daughter she was no longer allowed them after her (strict vegan) mother found out.
Were you shoveling several of them into your face at the time in order to get rid of them?
More importantly for us addicts… how does it contribute to gout?
salt
Vegetarian here, don’t care becasue; cheese. This is the same for wine and clarifying agents
+1
I draw the line at "was the animal killed for it" and "is there an alternative". So I know Parmesan isn't veggie, so when it's available I buy the not-Parmesan next to it in the supermarket that tastes exactly the same and costs half the price.
The ones that are annoying me at the moment is that due to the rising cost of everything, a lot of added "protein" (cereal bars, shakes etc) is no longer vegetarian as they use collagen (cheap) instead of whey (now ridiculously expensive).
Fun fact - Parma ham is made from pork from pigs fed on the leftover whey from Parmasan. Intensively reared animals eating animal products from intensively reared animals, where's this gone wrong before ............
salt
The blue top is damn good. Okay, still plenty of salt... but less than the yellow top. Not sure how much less...
[ EDIT: 25% less salt ]
I draw the line at “was the animal killed for it”
It's pretty difficult to remove a calf's stomach without killing it.
But still, cheese.
It’s pretty difficult to remove a calf’s stomach without killing it.
Pft. They didn't kill it for my veal steak though, they did it for that one over there
But as I make a point of never lecturing others on their choices or being particularly pious (or even mentioning it)...
Are you sure you're vegan?? 🤣
It’s pretty difficult to remove a calf’s stomach without killing it.
Yea, but if the whole world went vegetarian they wouldn't carry on killing cows for rennet or gelatin or collagen.
Although the price of milk would rocket as most dairy farms make their profit from selling the older cattle for mince.
but if the whole world vent vegetarian they wouldn’t carry on killing cows for rennet or gelatin or collagen
Because no one would use it, because we're all veggie?
They're all parts of a whole, what makes it profitable isn't just the tasty bits, take a little out here and a little there and the business case diminishes.
I'm a [relatively] happy omnivore but "this is just a by product" hasn't been true for a long time. Manufacturing in most any industry runon tight margins derived from the whole process not just the choice bits with any byproduct a happy bonus.
Yea, but if the whole world vent vegetarian they wouldn’t carry on killing cows for rennet or gelatin or collagen.
But we could still have cheese:
Because of the limited availability of mammalian stomachs for rennet production, cheese makers have sought other ways to coagulate milk since at least Roman times. The many sources of enzymes that can be a substitute for animal rennet range from plants and fungi to microbial sources.[8] Cheeses produced from any of these varieties of rennet are suitable for lactovegetarians. Fermentation-produced chymosin is used more often in industrial cheesemaking in North America and Europe today because it is less expensive than animal rennet.[9] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet#Alternative_sources
I’m a [relatively] happy omnivore but “this is just a by product” hasn’t been true for a long time. Manufacturing in most any industry runon tight margins derived from the whole process not just the choice bits with any byproduct a happy bonus.
I don't disagree, but it's certainly easier to argue that jelly babies are a byproduct of the meat industry, than to argue that the entire global meat industry is a byproduct of Maynard's confectionary. Certainly switching to mostly vegan protein supplements over Whey I take more support out of the meat industry than depriving myself of a nice Rioja and Margarita pizza, so it's a line I'm happy drawing there however semantic a point you want to make over it.
Don't get me wrong, you makes your choices you takes your chances and as a confirmed fan of various bits of animal I'm in no place to moralise about these things, doubtless I make a number of similar arguments to my self without really realising it.
You can keep your jelly babies though. Won't someone think of the jelly parents?
(but you can take my giant strawbs from my cold dead hands)
There’s quite a few desserts that are not vegetarian such as Aero Chocolate Mousse as they contain gelatine
Wait, what??? Even the mint ones??? Noooooo!
Sorry Steve, even the mint ones
"Mint Mousse 91% [Milk, Sugar, Cream (from Milk), Skimmed Milk Powder, Lactose (from Milk), Gelatine,"
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/259953235
There’s definitely levels of give a toss amongst veggies and vegans. Some super strict, others less so. I guess it depends why you have chosen to be veggie/vegan. My wife describes herself as pescatarian but will happily eat jelly babies.
Absolutely. Anyone with any sense decides what they want to eat and then attaches the closest label accordingly for the benefit of others; deciding you're veggie / vegan then going "right, what are the rules?" is arse about face.
I felt like such a bastard having to tell my daughter she was no longer allowed them after her (strict vegan) mother found out.
Her strict vegan mother doesn't have to eat it, this should affect your daughter why?
if an animal is killed then the whole of the carcass should be used. i guess the more important thing is how the animal is treated before it is slaughtered.
Her strict vegan mother doesn’t have to eat it, this should affect your daughter why?
within the boundaries of the law parents are free to raise their children how they see fit. what i want to know is why the dad has to break the bad news?
within the boundaries of the law parents are free to raise their children how they see fit. what i want to know is why the dad has to break the bad news?
Quite. Point was, there are two parents both with opinions on how best to raise their children. What happens if mum is a vegan and dad is practically a carnivore?
Give the kid a varied diet until she's old enough to make her own decisions, guided by her parents advice. No?
There's a way of doing it.
"Your mother has decided you're a vegan, and as a result you can't eat these delicious chocolate mouses... never mind. I'll finish them as it would be a waste of a sacrilegious cow's life to throw them away in the bin full. Mother will surely confirm that your bean curd and tofu surprise will be ebery bit as enjoyable. Bon Apitit."
I’m nominally vegan and my hazy ethics are probably
... because @convert needs some mental isinglass.
A lot of veggies don't seem know what's in what they eat.
Worcestershire Sauce is one. Made with anchovies but I see lots of veggies using it.
Give the kid a varied diet until she’s old enough to make her own decisions, guided by her parents advice. No?
Depends on your world view, that would make no sense to a vegan, which is why it's upto the parents and not society.
Although reduction ad absurdum works both ways on this.
Do you let kids do all sorts of things that are 'normal' in society but are objectively bad (sex, drugs and rock and roll), and then let them decide if they want to give them up later in life. Or do you start from a position of moral absolutism (no sex, no drugs, not rock and roll, no meat) and let them decide to take those things up as grown ups.
Worcestershire Sauce is one. Made with anchovies but I see lots of veggies using it.
Naaa, we use hendersons.
a) Veggie
b) Better
Just google
Vegan child taken into care
Just google
Vegan child taken into care
And conveniently ignore all the vegan kids not taken into care 👍
It's almost like Paton is only able to very selectively google things and post them without critique or comment
It’s almost like Paton is only able to very selectively google things and post them without critique or comment
I'm pretty sure that's about a third of the posters here. Well unless they're all the same poster obviously.
Just google
Vegan child taken into care
Why don't you google it and post links with no comment?
There's animal products in loads of foods you'd not automatically think would have.
https://www.treehugger.com/surprising-foods-that-contain-animal-products-4864275
Do you let kids do all sorts of things that are ‘normal’ in society but are objectively bad (sex, drugs and rock and roll), and then let them decide if they want to give them up later in life. Or do you start from a position of moral absolutism (no sex, no drugs, not rock and roll, no meat) and let them decide to take those things up as grown ups.
Its a bit of an odd straw man.
I don't think the issue was that some parents might raise their child vegan, but rather that if one parent is a strict vegan and the other is not (as implied in the post) that deciding the child should be a strict vegan is quite a leap. Moreover, if that decision has been made, it surely falls to the strict vegan to do the explaining about the "downsides" rather than the other parent?
Vegans are recommended to take some animal products in the interests of their health. Most biologicals (i.e., monoclonal antibodies) are made in CHO cells. CHO is short for Chinese Hamster Ovary. And that ignores the obvious and legally required animal testing to get to the clinic. The Vegan Society is pretty balanced https://www.vegansociety.com/news/blog/practical-considerations-vegan-friendly-medicines
I too didn't understand why the father has to break the vegan Aero bad news. BTW I'm a vegan on Wednesdays.
They're her mothers beliefs,let her do the dirty work.
I'm sure it'll all balance out when mother explains that they're not allowed to go to Disney world because dad doesn't agree with their politics.
Parenting isn't competition, it's cooperation. By the time one parent is telling the child anything it's no longer (or at least shouldn't be) one parent's opinion or decision.
Its a bit of an odd straw man.
Deliberately so (it even includes an admission to being a reductio ad absurdum) to illustrate the point that as a society we draw some fairly odd and arbitrary lines of things that are ok and things that aren't, and things that are Ok only once you're old enough to make the decisions as to where your own moral compass lies, and that it doesn't always go the same way.
I.e. why should the kid wait till their 18 before giving up meat, and not phrase it as "Give the kid a vegan diet until she’s old enough to make her own decisions, guided by her parents advice. No?". Yet in general we don't let kids swear, but there's plenty of evidence that a good 4 letter outburst is good for you and no one bats an eyelid as an adult if you drop the f-bomb wen you stub your toe.
Naaa, we use hendersons.
a) Veggie
b) Better
Thanks. I'll check it out.
A lot of veggies don’t seem know what’s in what they eat.
Worcestershire Sauce is one. Made with anchovies but I see lots of veggies using it.
In many cases I'd hazard that's -probably- by choice rather than ignorance? I've been veggie for 30+ years but I still eat gummie bears and try not to think about it too hard. Yes, colour me a hypocrite.
Point is though, as I've said before, I choose what I want to eat and then attach the closest label by way of explanation for the benefit of others; I don't choose a label and then try to make everything else fit, life's too short for that sort of silliness.
I'll avoid L&P Worcester Sauce for the simple reason that there are many other viable alternatives. Vegan WS exists, and Henderson's is closer to WS than many non-fishy WS offerings.
Although reduction ad absurdum works both ways on this.
Do you let kids do all sorts of things that are ‘normal’ in society but are objectively bad (sex, drugs and rock and roll), and then let them decide if they want to give them up later in life. Or do you start from a position of moral absolutism (no sex, no drugs, not rock and roll, no meat) and let them decide to take those things up as grown ups.
Of course. But in the specific example cited you've got two parents of differing views. Does one automatically trump the other?
It’s almost like Paton is
Failing to observe Wheaton's Law?
Paton is one of the early AI bots, I though everyone knew this?
He/she/it just pops up on a thread to post vaguely related YouTube and Google links. It's what he was programmed to do, don't hate him for it
I too didn’t understand why the father has to break the vegan Aero bad news.
There's too little info from Mister-P, despite being back to the thread a few times. How old is the kid, for example.
My niece is 11. Her mum has been veggie since she was 7 or 8 (my fault, jokes about eating bambie tipped her over the edge). Her dad eats meat as and when. My niece went pesci about 2 years ago having eaten meat beforehand. Her choice. I can totally see her dad breaking the news that her previous pudding of choice contained gelatine, as spotted by her mum - not because the bad news breaking was devolved to him in some sort of act of vengeance; but because he just happened to be the one doling out the pudding options the next time it came up after the 'discovery' and they act as a team.
It would be interesting to hear how families of young kids today in 2023 now bring them up in terms of dietary choices if the 2 parents (or step parents too if parents divorced) have very differing views. Not a lot different to a super healthy parent and junk food addict coming to a decision I'd have thought. But it's my experience that people with wildly differing views on food and nutrition rarely become long term partners. It's pretty fundamental to your life outlook. I'm not saying a vegan and a meat eater can't coexist, but a super preachy vegan and a full on carnivore or a veggie and a 'mmm, but bacon' just exist in different orbits they are very unlikely to get along. How many successful marriages work with someone who nibbles on rabbit food out of choice whilst their biffer partner works their way through the Mc Full House. What I'm saying in a long winded way is that the number of times people with very different attitudes to food fundamentally disagree about how to feed their child is probably very small - most people can find a compromise and those that can't probably struggle to hold down a relationship long enough to procreate.
How can you stop eating Marmite?!?
With great difficulty!😥
More importantly for us addicts… how does it contribute to gout?
salt
Actually it's the yeast. Its really high in purines that when digested produce uric acid, which in turn causes gout. If we don't get rid of the uric acid it crystalises in joints and REALLY hurts!
Gout isn't all about eating swan and quaffing mead, theres loads of things that are bad for it, like foods and drinks high in fructose and then things like spinach and oily fish that are obviously really good for you in other ways. So you just have to balance your diet in ways to prevent a build up of uric acid. Dehydration is also bad as you don't flush it out, so drinking plenty of (non-alcoholic) fluids helps.
I also take medication for it now....
But it’s my experience that people with wildly differing views on food and nutrition rarely become long term partners. It’s pretty fundamental to your life outlook.
I agree with most of what you wrote, up until that last paragraph which is (veggie) mince.
My first girlfriend was vegetarian (and I copped a lot of "you're only vegetarian because she is" flack back in the 1990s) but none have been since. It's simple for me. If I'm cooking - and historically I'm almost exclusively the one doing the cooking because none of my partners have ever enjoyed doing it - then it'll almost always be vegetarian unless it's dinging a ready meal. You want to eat meat, fill your boots, the kitchen is that way. ➡ This affects me not one jot.
With kids it's probably more complicated, but I guess it comes down again to who's cooking? If my partner wants to cook her 1-year old grandson (say) bacon then more power to her elbow, I couldn't care less so long as he's getting fed properly, but I'm not doing it. All other things aside, I wouldn't know how.
My first girlfriend was veggie (and I got a lot of “you’re only vegetarian because she is” stick back in the 1990s) but none have been since. It’s simple for me. If I’m cooking – and historically I almost exclusively the one cooking because I’ve yet to find a partner who enjoys doing it – then it’ll almost always be vegetarian unless it’s dinging a ready meal. You want to eat meat, fill your boots, the kitchen is that way. ➡ This affects me not one jot.
That's not what I'm saying. Of course a veggie and non veggie can't cohabit cordially. But, I doubt those on the extremes can. I know veggie/vegans that refuse to have meat in the house or refuse to use a cooking utensil that's ever been near meat, even after it's been washed countless times. Or have a spoon that has been near meat washed in the same dishwasher load as their stuff. Or the unrepentant meat eater that is utterly vile about the 'snowflake/woke fussy eaters' that don't love a bit of well hung loin and insist on making a thing about it.every.single.time.
I'm guessing your more recent partners have gone along with eating vegetarian/vegan if you are cooking and not made a fuss about their human right to consume pig 3 times a day being violated. Similarly, you've not kicked up a fuss about the smell of a pork chop being cooked in your sanctuary? You have found a partner(s) that you can compromise with.
Of course. But in the specific example cited you’ve got two parents of differing views. Does one automatically trump the other?
Societally we generally seem to err on the side of moral conservatism. Hence my point, why would the default be to feed them meat untill they decide otherwise. It's the odd one out.
What is the veggie opinion on dead animals that didn't die by human intention? Surely they can't be excluded as it would a waste of natural resources?
Being vegetarian or vegan purely on the basis of not killing animals is near impossible. Animals will be killed during food production regardless, whether it's a steak or an avocado.
Of course, there are plenty of other great reasons to not eat meat or any animal products, ranging from personal preference to reducing environmental impact.
That got me thinking actually. Beyond benefits to the individual are there any reasons to eat meat or animal products?
What is the veggie opinion on dead animals that didn’t die by human intention?
What are we talking - road kill? Pet dogs dying of old age?
Nature is pretty good at recycling caucuses without me getting in on the act.
Animals will be killed during food production regardless, whether it’s a steak or an avocado.
I doubt whether there is any human economic activity which guarantees that no animal ever dies. However I reckon it is safe to say that level of death associated with eating an avocado isn't of the same magnitude as deaths associated with eating cattle.
However I reckon it is safe to say that level of death associated with eating an avocado isn’t of the same magnitude as deaths associated with eating cattle
Very hard to measure. I remember somebody on one of those living off the land programs and the presenter was questioning the ethics of his fishing. His response was that he kills far more animals in an hour's gardening than an hour's fishing.
Marmite got a shed loads of brewer's yeast in - not good for gout.
His response was that he kills far more animals in an hour’s gardening than an hour’s fishing.
Well fishing isn't necessarily a very effective way of acquiring animal based food, I can imagine that it isn't difficult to spend an hour fishing resulting in the death of only a couple of maggots.
Obviously I have no idea what sort of slaughter the geezer's gardening involved, but hopefully the bloodshed didn't cause too much emotional distress to the unfortunate causalities.
That’s not what I’m saying. Of course a veggie and non veggie can’t cohabit cordially. But, I doubt those on the extremes can. I know veggie/vegans that refuse to have meat in the house or refuse to use a cooking utensil that’s ever been near meat, even after it’s been washed countless times. Or have a spoon that has been near meat washed in the same dishwasher load as their stuff. Or the unrepentant meat eater that is utterly vile about the ‘snowflake/woke fussy eaters’ that don’t love a bit of well hung loin and insist on making a thing about it.every.single.time.
I assume "can't" is a typo there. And, well, they're extremists.
I’m guessing your more recent partners have gone along with eating vegetarian/vegan if you are cooking and not made a fuss about their human right to consume pig 3 times a day being violated. Similarly, you’ve not kicked up a fuss about the smell of a pork chop being cooked in your sanctuary? You have found a partner(s) that you can compromise with.
🤷♂️I don't see it as a compromise. If the 'fam' wants to stink out the house with pig fat then I'll turn on the extractor fan and close the door. If they want to cook then I'm not stopping them, it'd be nice to have a night off.
What is the veggie opinion on dead animals that didn’t die by human intention? Surely they can’t be excluded as it would a waste of natural resources?
The "is it the 1990s again already" mistake you're making here is assuming that everyone is vegetarian for the same reasons. I don't eat meat because I find it revolting and I'm fortunate enough that I don't have to.
Any further questions, do I need to dig out my bingo card?
As an omnivore I would say with an omnivore parent and a vegan parent the chikd should be vegan. Its no harm to the child and no skin off the omnivores nose. Wheras if the veganism is important to the other parent for the child to eat meat would be very upsetting.
Only an arse of an omnivore parent would make it an issue