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I went out for a curry on Saturday night with some friends and drove us all there. Opposite the curry house there is a car park which has Tile Giant and Bath Store on it, with flats up above.
I parked up in their carp park at about 2 minutes to 8 in the evening, noticing another car had just pulled up as well in the space next but one to me.
We walked across the road to the curry house and went in. Imediatelly another customer came up to me and said, you better go and move your car as they are putting parking fines on all the cars. Went straight back out so literally 2 minutes later to find a fine on the windscreen.
A cleaner was locking up bathstore and said it was the guys I had seen, and they had just done the whole car park and driven off straight away (they had done his car too)
I moved the car to another parking area, and about 1hour later the 2 guys came back. They didnt like it when I had a go at them and said I could prove what time I arrived at the curry house, and showed them the picture I took on my camera showing me back at the car 5 mins later. They just drove off...
This is the notice on the sign of the building
[img] 
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Is it just tough look and I should pay, or should I complain? Afterall the guys saw me turn up and were getting out of their car as we got out of ours, they could have told us we couldnt park there.
I know it says 24hr inforced, but come on at 8pm on a Saturday night? I could argue that I am a customer of both shops as I have previously bought stuff from the tile shop, and got Bath Store to quote (they were expensive even in their sale!)
Yep, tell them to do one. Not enforcable.
go in the shop and buy a single tile.
You're then a customer and allowed to park there at any time - it doesn't say you need to be in the shop whilst parked, does it?
I think this is a civil thing so just ignopring any letters is likely to work if you hold your nerve.
I got a ticket in a private car park several months ago.
Have had about 7 letters, I'd guess, asking for money.
2nd from last said they were willing to settle at a discounted rate, despite all the others escalating in cost.
Last letter said the debt had been sold to another debt collection firm who were willing to settle at the original cost of the fine.
I'll probably ignore that one as well.
Ignore it, do not enter into any correspondence whatsoever. They will send increasingly threatening letters, ignore those too.
They will be private parking company so no goverment backing send a letter with your pictures and what they did maybe your receipt and they should take it no further. They are just hoping you pay it.
are you legally obliged to provide a correspondence (sp) address if they ask for it? i got a ticket in a friends apartment building car park (in his space) yesterday, and im appealing it - i emailed to appeal but they said they need a full postal address!
MrCrush - all advice says no contact at all.
1. Its a charge, not a fine
2.
Ignore it, do not enter into any correspondence whatsoever. They will send increasingly threatening letters, ignore those too.
This^^
shiz. oh well, i emailed them from a randomly named email address and didnt put my surname. i wont be responding to them again then! cheers SY
I just rang the payment number on the ticket (my number witheld)
They said they wont accept complaints over the phone. I've got an email address so will email them (from a hotmail account). I'll also be copying both retailers, the local council and the local paper.
Ok might not make much difference but heck its all fun! They have no way of tracing me from that info. The ticket does have my car reg on it though, so I'm not sure if people can access your address details from that?
Bit naughty including the crimestoppers number and a natty blue and yellow border. Anyone would think they were trying to mislead the unwary.
That said, it is their property, provided for customer use and people chose to use it without paying for it. No wonder they get pee'd off.
I got similar from some company a few months back, quick google on moneysupermarket, on here etc suggested ignore them. I did, had 3 letters increasing the 'fine' and nothing for ages.... they usually try to make letters and signs look all legal, crimestoppers for instance...LOL, Ignore them, shysters!
Parking ticket from the council - legally, you have to pay (unless you're a foreign diplomat or something).
Parking ticket from anyone else - legally, you do not have to pay. They are entitled (legally) to the revenue lost by you parking there, ie the face value of the parking ticket you did not buy.
These private operators try and make their correspondence look as close to the official version (that you'd receive from the council/police if you got a ticket in a council run car park) but they have no legal authority whatsoever.
You'll receive an increasing number of threatening letters from the parking company, what looks like debt collectors and what looks like solicitors promising all sorts of retribution. None of it will happen - legally, all they could do is take you to a civil court where you'd be ordered to pay the damages (ie the cost of the ticket you didn't buy). Sending letters costs them virtually nothing, but taking you to a civil court would, so there's a snowball's chance in hell of them doing it.
The best thing to do is to bin all correspondence, don't bother getting into a dialogue. They can obtain your details from the DVLA for £10, assuming you're the registered keeper of the vehicle. Means nothing, the whole thing is a game of percentages - they're betting on a certain number of people being terrified by official-looking correspondence and paying up. Its an unsolicited invoice, nothing more.
This happened to Mrs Tyred a few years ago. She's somewhat more observant than I am of authority in general, so worried about it for ages. Several months later, she was still getting letters from 'solicitors' demanding payment for ludicrous amounts. She then got a jury duty letter (with the crown stamp on the envelope) and nearly had a heart attack!
Parking ticket from the council - legally, you have to pay
... or private companies operating on behalf of the council.
[i]I've got an email address so will email them (from a hotmail account). I'll also be copying both retailers, the local council and the local paper.[/i]
you need to get this guy involved, too;
[url= http://apiln.blogspot.com/ ]http://apiln.blogspot.com/[/url]
The ticket does have my car reg on it though, so I'm not sure if people can access your address details from that?
Yes, they can, even with the vaguest of reasons DVLA will hand out details.
I've got an email address so will email them (from a hotmail account). I'll also be copying both retailers, the local council and the local paper.
Just bloody ignore them!
there is no contract. the sign doesn't say anything about you accpeting the conditions of parking there, it just says any car parking ILLEGALLY will get a charge (not a fine). How on gods earth do you park illegally on someone's land?
EDIT: don't correspond to them. just ignore
Ignore everything. Don't even THINK about entering into any sort of dialogue at all. Bin all letters. They'll give up after a while.
Hang on, am I missing something? Much as I don't like paying parking charges, where on that sign does it say you can park there as long as it's 8pm on a saturday night?
I'm not contacting them again.
But, in theory I was parked on private land so I would have thought they can charge for parking on their land. If I dont pay an invoice from any other company they are entitled to take further action and give me a bad credit rating. So for all those above saying they cant inforce it, whats the difference between this and not paying any other invoice?
the principle is that you are entering into a contract to pay a fee for parking, which in this instance is £60. It is not, repeat not a fine or any form of penalty charge, what they put on your car was merely an invoice.
They are prohibited by their own association from "passing off" their invoices as penalties. From the picture above I would guess that they are already treading a very fine line with that.
The concept of the contract is only enforcable if they can prove that you were driving at the time, so the best advice is to totally ignore any communications and just get on with your life. They will threaten all sorts of dire consequences from time to time, but basically there is nothing they can do.
Check out British Parking Association and in particular this section of their code of practice:-
15 Misrepresentation of authority
15.1 You must not misrepresent to the public that the parking
control and enforcement work you are doing is carried
out under the statutory powers of the police or some
other public authority.
15.2 You must give clear information to the public about what
parking activities are allowed and what is unauthorised.
However, you must not mislead the public into believing
that the rules you are enforcing are based upon the
powers of an agency regulated by Statute.
15.3 Operators who suggest to the public that they are
providing parking enforcement under statutory authority
will be acting in breach of the Code.
15.4 You must not use terms which imply that you are acting
under statutory authority; this will include terms such as
‘fine’, ‘penalty’ or ‘penalty charge notice’.
You have to be given credit in order to get a bad credit rating as far as I'm aware.
OP why didn't you park on the road or pay for to park somewhere?
"OP why didn't you park on the road or pay for to park somewhere?"
Because I have parked there many times during the day to visit the Post Office etc which is right next door. It is a commonly used parking area by all in the area, and you wouldnt think it was private land...
Hope this works.. the parking existed way before the building, rightly or wrongly it has been used as parking for years...
In fact just checking the google image, the sign I took a picture of isnt even up, so it may well be a fairly recent thing..
The concept of the contract is only enforcable if they can prove that you were driving at the time
That's a strange interpretation of contract law. I always thought a contract had to have three elements: offer, consideration and acceptance. It is quite some stretch of logic to assume that because someone is driving they are also considering and accepting a contract proposal.
Why should he pay when there's convenient parking available that will not inconvenience anyone else?OP why didn't you park on the road or pay for to park somewhere?
You're the kind of person that pays these things. I wouldn't mind that so much - it's your money after all - but it keeps sharks like this in business.Hang on, am I missing something? Much as I don't like paying parking charges, where on that sign does it say you can park there as long as it's 8pm on a saturday night?
The reason you pay your normal invoices is because you have contracted to receive the goods or the services you are being invoiced for (and you are a fine upstanding person). In this case you do not have to pay the invoice as you have never agreed to do so.But, in theory I was parked on private land so I would have thought they can charge for parking on their land. If I dont pay an invoice from any other company they are entitled to take further action and give me a bad credit rating. So for all those above saying they cant inforce it, whats the difference between this and not paying any other invoice?
They have to prove you parked the car there - as has already been stated above. The burden of proof is theirs. You are under no obligation to answer their questions and so as long as you don't confirm in any correspondence who the driver was there is nothing they can do to legally enforce the contract that you did actually agree* to by parking there.
*'agree' in the legal sense that the signs were displayed prominently and at regular intervals in accordance with the clear regulations on these things.
Advice: Don't correspond with them at all.
If you can't resist then at least correspond in the third person so as not to inadvertently give away the fact you were the driver. eg.. 'I didn't see the signs when I parked there' and the like = admitting you were the driver.
Making no judgements on the moral rights or wrongs of parking there of course.
That's a strange interpretation of contract law. I always thought a contract had to have three elements: offer, consideration and acceptance. It is quite some stretch of logic to assume that because someone is driving they are also considering and accepting a contract proposal.
They contact the registered keeper.
They don't know that the keeper was the driver.
You're the kind of person that pays these things. I wouldn't mind that so much - it's your money after all - but it keeps sharks like this in business.
Nah I probably wouldn't pay, but then I probably wouldn't have parked their either. Nor would I be whinging as if it was some kind of outrage if I had and got a ticket.
Should property owners ever be able to stop people parking on their property if they don't want them to?
The reason you pay your normal invoices is because you have contracted to receive the goods or the services you are being invoiced for (and you are a fine upstanding person). In this case you do not have to pay the invoice as you have never agreed to do so.
So parking there when you've clearly seen the sign advising of the charges isn't agreeing to anything?
I can see why they've agreed to let clampers operate on their land. Even just one car left on those spots reduces their customers parking massively.
Anywaaaaay - don't communicate with them. Its their 'charge'. Not a fine.
as covered the charge assumes you have entered into a contract. which you have not.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets
Notice though how the advice is about [i]unfair[/i] tickets - I'm struggling to see what's unfair about this one.
s covered the charge assumes you have entered into a contract. which you have not.
If the signs are displayed correctly on the land then technically he has.
Avoiding paying is really quite simple - Ignore.
Should you choose to do so is a personal ethics issue.
Grum - I agree with you on this one apart from,
1. The fact that they had the opportunity to approach me and advise me of the charge for parking there (there representatives got out of the car at the same time as me)
2. I stayed less than 1 hour
3. I am a customer of Tile Giant 🙂
If they want to get pedantic I will too.
1. I don't think it's really their responsibility to tell you, when there's a big sign that tells you not to park there or you will be charged
2. My interpretation of that bit is that you get an hour when you are visiting the store to buy stuff.
3. You weren't there to shop though were you - I think suggesting that having at some point bought some stuff off them means you can park there forever for free is pushing it a bit.
I dunno, I'm normally on the side of the 'common man' ( 🙂 ) in these arguments, I'm just struggling to see the terrible injustice here.
'MAN PARKS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY WITH WARNING SIGNS THEN GETS CHARGED OUTRAGE!'
OK, I asked the guy in Bathstore if they were still open. He will remember the conversation because he was peed off too.
At that point I was trying to be a customer of Bathstore, the lights were still on and the door was open.
Dont get me wrong now I know it is private land I will not park there again, or use either retailer.
I'm struggling to see what's unfair about this one.
The landowner can only claim for their losses.
The charge imposed by the parking company will far exceed the loss.
That's the unfair bit. It's really not that complicated.
Still not had any contact from the company so assuming they are not going to pursue, or there checkes are that crap that they have realised I havent paid yet!
I'm sure they need to prove who was driving in order to take it before a magistrate. And they hve no more power than I do, to force you to do that. Just keep ignoring the letters & don't enter into any correspondence with the bunch of portakabin dwelling pond life.
I had a similar difference of opinions with a private parking firm. I probably made my first mistake by emailing them, rather than ignoring. Their response was:
[i]Within the correspondence it suggests that you were not the driver at the time of the contravention.
As such, because we are members of the British Parking Association (BPA) we are required to invite you to declare that you either were the driver of the vehicle at the time the charge was issued or to disclose the identity of the driver at that time.
We feel obligated to mention that, under the Pre-Action Protocol of the Civil Procedural Rules, court action must only be viewed as a last resort. We are making all reasonable attempts to avoid this outcome.
However, it is worth noting that, if this matter does proceed to court, we will request that a Norwich Pharmacal Order [Norwich Pharmacal Co. v Customs and Excise Commissioners [1974]] be issued by the Court so that the correct driver details would have to be provided.
Many forums /sites advise people to ignore parking charges; with some advising people to send standard letters to deny liability for the charge notice.
It is not advisable to believe what you read on the forums as we do take people to court.
This was proven in Oldham County Court in November 2008 where an operator won a case where the keeper stated that they were not the driver and could not remember who was driving. The judge decided that on the balance of probability he was the driver and ruled against him.
Please visit www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/15246/parking-penalty-just-judge-rules for a summary of the case.[/i]
i.e. lots of legal-sounding bullocks which they hope will scare you into paying up. Sadly I think I'm in for a lot more of this, by showing willing by responding to their first letter 👿
so what can you do if they clamp your car? this happened to me and I paid up...
I would state I was only there for the One Hour allowed and stated by the shop
It does not give you anytime on the poster when the One Hour is !
I'm in a similar boat after getting a ticket last weekend. B**ers had a bin bag over the pay and display machine and still put a ticket on me car. My intention is to take pleasure in ignoring every letter they send me.
Morally you were wrong and I suspect, going by the start of your post, you know it.
It's not your land , you have no right to be there. End of story.
Unfortunately legislation screws tha land owner and as a result of stupid over charging you will get away with it.
One nice idea that I saw once was a similar notice but instead of demanding a silly amount the landowner suggested quite nicely a donation to charity. I know of one person who took it on the chin and di just that. I'd love to here of some one trying that to a more demanding parking company.
Tecso's in Oban does exactly that. £70 if you exceed 3 hours, but goes to whichever is their charity that year.
I don't see the problem, if a company provides parking spaces and they are not full/overflowing, for people to use it for other shops nearby, especially if it's out of hours for the shop in question. Up here most parking places seem to be free, those that aren't are the ones in city centres and are specific parking locations not for shops. Seems to work fine up here, you don't seem to get shops over-run with people parking for other locations costing them a fortune in lost revenue.