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Popped in to the local Lidl to pick up a couple of bits on my way home, it's a 90 mins free parking press the button thing. I didn't press the button, it was the evening and the car park was empty I was there 5 mins and got a ticket.
So do I just pay up £60 or do I try to get it reduced\cancelled?
To be fair I was bang to rights, I didn't bother with the ticket, but I hate these companies in general. My first ever parking ticket I might add.
£60 rising to £100 just seems a bit steep for a 5 mins trip to the shops when the car park was empty
My first ever parking ticket I might add.
but:
Parking fine [u]again[/u], what to do?
❓
Whatever you do, do not pay a single penny.
What you have received is an invoice, not a penalty notice (only issuable by council bodies and police)
This invoice is not enforceable regardless of the threatening letter that you WILL receive.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets
Oh and whatever you do, do not engage in communication with the parking compny, simply ignore.
You're not bang to rights, though, are you? You're a genuine customer who didn't even overstay.
Previously, you could have ignored it completely with virtually no chance of comeback, but nowadays it seems they have more powers to chase you up. Pepipoo forums would be your best bet for some tailored advice. I guess you'd go down the 'what loss have they actually suffered' route, which is zero, of course.
Oh, and make sure you keep the store receipt.
They can pursue you for damages to redress their losses. So on a free car park, they'd be able to take you to court to claim the £0.00 they're out of pocket.
Unless the ticket was issued by or on behalf of the council, ignore them.
From that money saving expert link
DO remember this is about fighting UNFAIR tickets
DON'T get caught out by illegal clamping
DO print the Glove Box Parking Guide
DON'T assume the driver's liable for the ticket
DO gather evidence if you plan to appeal
I think the first thing to consider is whether the ticket was UNFAIR
Zokes - "again" as in I've seen it come up on here before
I thought the ignore thing had changed?
The more complicated bit is I was driving my brothers car, and he wife's the worrying type. Exactly the type these company's prey on, although I was bang to rights, I just dislike their tactics in general.
Zokes - "again" as in I've seen it come up on here before
Ah, sorry 😳
Brigante - Unfair? Not in the way it was issued, no.
unfair as in it's an extortionate charge for 5 mins in an empty car park yes.
I wouldn't get caught up in an appeal. The 'militant approach' detailed on the MoneySavingExpert link there seems more straightforward.
If it's your brother's car, though, it's pretty much out of your hands, because they may pay up for a quiet life.
the letters some of these companies send out are laughable - poor English, random capitalisation, random ramblings. just hilarious. best ignored...
Read this thread and then make your own decision whether you can ignore it, like the old advice used to be.
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/parking-eye
I would certainly suggest that you don't pay if you are minded that it is unfair, but you might need to be prepared to stand your ground a bit more actively than just ignoring it if my sister's case is anything to go by.
Appealed a ticket with UK CPS last year, with the rule change last year it is not neccessarily the best idea to ignore as some companies can and will take you to court.
We raised an appeal with the company first - rejected (there's a surprise 😀 )
POPLA appeal - the parking companies don't like this at all as they have to pay POPLA for each and every appeal.
POPLA upheld the appeal on the basis trhe car park was free so no loss to the car park owners. Parking company are not allowed to include their operational costs, which they all try to justify.
Our heinous crime was my wife parking in a disabled bay with no badge on display.
£60 rising to £100 just seems a bit steep for a 5 mins trip to the shops when the car park was empty
The parking is free, the fine is for not displaying a ticket/pressing the button.
Our heinous crime was my wife parking in a disabled bay with no badge on display.
In fairness to the parking company they cannot tell that you are a legitimate user of the space.
Lots of useful advice here and I've learnt from the thread. I recently got a Hammersmith and Fulham charge overturned and if you think you are in the right it's always worth appealing. The "I forgot a ticket" isn't much of a defence though. Put yourself in the parking attendant shoes, he/she is issuing a ticket/penalty based upon what they see and the rules, in the LIDL case and Disabled Bay one above the attendant is just doing their job.
OP, I would definitely do something about the ticket, just ignoring it seems a bad move to me.
Our heinous crime was my wife parking in a disabled bay with no badge on display.
Is that what you mean, or do you mean:
Our heinous crime was my wife parking in a disabled bay despite not being disabled.
Because the latter (whilst tempting) is a dickish thing to do.
Seeing as it's your brother's car, I'd try and sort it out to stop him and his wife getting a string of unpleasant letters.
The only thing I would try is going into the store and explaining the situation - I think they can cancel it.
Otherwise, to keep your brother and his wife sweet, I'd just pay it and move on.
njee20 - MemberOur heinous crime was my wife parking in a disabled bay with no badge on display.
Is that what you mean, or do you mean:
Our heinous crime was my wife parking in a disabled bay despite not being disabled.
Because the latter (whilst tempting) is a dickish thing to do.
No, definitely the first one.
You're assuming my wife isn't disabled, didn't explain this and send copies of her badge to the parking company and that the badge wasn't in plain view, just not on the dashboard 😉
TrekEX8 - MemberSeeing as it's your brother's car, I'd try and sort it out to stop him and his wife getting a string of unpleasant letters.
The only thing I would try is going into the store and explaining the situation - I think they can cancel it.
Otherwise, to keep your brother and his wife sweet, I'd just pay it and move on.
Simply appeal the PCN and name yourself as the driver, all correspondence will then go to you not the registered keeper. Brother and wife are then clear and can fret about something else 🙂
29erKeith - MemberI thought the ignore thing had changed?
It has.
Previously, the contract would have been between the unknown driver (could be anyone using the car) and the parking company, now they have the right to chase the registered keeper of the vehicle, irrespective of who was driving.
I was driving my brothers car
Sweet, his problem. 😆
Cougar's point about about occurring no losses is pertinent, have a read [url= http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1388006&mid=42279&nmt=Parking+Eye+lose+case+-+have+to+pay+parking! ]here[/url] about ParkingEye losing such a case.
Read the whole court transcription, especially when the Judge awards the defendant costs, it really is priceless! 🙂
Don't pay but don't ignore it
Go to Pepipoo for proper advice
Assuming the ticket issuer is part of POPLA, appeal to the parking company which will be rejected then appeal through POPLA using guidance from Pepipoo
This will cost the parking company £27
Win at POPLA using the proper guidance from Pepipoo
Cost to you = £0
[url= http://www.rollonfriday.com/TheNews/EuropeNews/tabid/58/Id/3207/fromTab/58/currentIndex/11/Default.aspx ]If you find yourself in court, hope you have this judge presiding. [/url]
Edit - looks like sbob got there first.
I wish there were parking fines for all the people who park in baby/toddler spaces in supermarkets etc etc. Even if its for 5mins.
Saves everyones cars from being door-dinged too when access to a rear door is hindered. Lazy ****s.
Just skimmed down through that case in Brizzle. Mr Gopal was well and truly pwned. 😆
Wait up.
The parking is free, the fine is for not displaying a ticket/pressing the button.
Private companies cannot issue fines, that would be illegal.
The car park is free. Therefore, they appear to have [i]invoiced[/i] you for not pressing a button.
Always be wary of advice given on Pepipoo.
Although they have helped a lot of people out, they keep very quiet about the cases people lose after following their advice.
+1
And i would worry that if you don't follow appropriate process by appealing the ticket in the proper way first, and just ignore until the day the court papers drop through the door* and then start to rely on the fact it's an unfair / illegal contract, etc., if it does go against you you'll be more harshly treated for not having followed process.
* which can and does happen far more easily since the law change. in the past they could ONLY pursue the driver but could only get the details of the keeper. And if the keeper wasn't the driver, or even denied being the driver, they couldn't summons the keeper instead. Now if you don't disclose the driver the keeper becomes liable, hence if you ignore your brother will be getting a court date at some time in the future**
** perhaps - but would you take the risk.
I recently won an appeal against Excel parking services who wanted to charge me £60 rising to £100 for failing to buy a £1.20 ticket.
I went through the process described above. Appealed to Excel, they rejected it but sent me an appeal code which I then used to lodge an appeal with POPLA. Several weeks later they emailed to say my appeal was successful on the grounds that Excel had not suffered anywhere near £60 worth of loss or damages.
jamesgarbett - Can I ask what you put in your initial appeal? Any reason for not getting your ticket? or were you purely focused on loss\damages and left it at that?
As several have said, don't ignore this. The old advice was to ignore.. if its parking eye really don't ignore them. They do try it on at court
to take the hassle away from your Brother do a soft appeal to them as the driver so they are contacting you and not the registered keeper (your bro I guess)
Appeal using advice from MSE or Pepipoo. This will be rejected. They should give you a POPLA code.
You then appeal to POPLA using the argument of "not a genuine pre-estimate of loss"
This appeal will almost certainly go in your favour.
Its a bit of hassle but it avoids court papers
Hi Keith - feel free to email me but basically the initial appeal is irrelevant as the parking company will always reject it. All you want them to do is send you a POPLA appeal code. Then you submit the proper appeal to POPLA but you need the code to do it.
I think I just forgot to get a ticket as I was waiting in the car for someone to nip into a shop - feeble excuse and I would have been happy to pay them £1.20 after the event but not £60. The car park was half empty so it wasn't as if I was preventing someone else from parking (and paying).
That court transcript is one of the funniest things I've read for ages.
Judge Melville-Shreeve is my new hero!
Right all sounds good, I think I'll appeal on the basis of the've lost sod all and I was in and out and it would have been free I just thought it was ok in the evening so didn't press the button, cheers all
Morally?
You were wrong . Pay up. You broke the rules.
legally and on here. Lie and avoid responsibility where possible. It the modern way.
That took longer than i expected 🙄
Lie! I'm not going to lie about anything!
The point of these parking charges is to stop people parking there all day for free, popping on the train and taking spaces from people who want to use the shops there. I parked for 5 mins and used the shops, there were half a dozen cars there out of 100+ spaces. I wrongfully assumed that in the evening nobody would be ticketing so didn't bother pressing the button, so £60 is fair for that given the circumstances?
Morally what an awful person I am
Now if this company operated as the other local supermarket's parking company does where they have a 2 hour limit and they have a man wondering around inputting registration numbers into a handheld, looking for breaches and then issuing tickets, I'd pay as I would have been breaking the spirit of what it's intended for, but I wasn't. These types of company's seem to have no intention of taking any normal parking charges or stopping abuse of the car park the fines seem to be their primary revenue stream.
You broke the rules.
legally
Epic fail. What law has he broken?
The point of these parking charges is to stop people parking there all day for free
Nah. The point of them is to make money.
Cougar - Moderator
Nah. The point of them is to make money.
^^^ To make money. Fact.
🙄
The shops in question are very close to a train station with no parking at all, so that's what they should be for. I agree that's certainly not the spirit of how the parking company enforces the rules though
You went into a car park.
The sign said press this button and get a ticket.
Put this ticket on your car or they will charge you extortionate money.
You don't follow the above simple points.
You get an extortionate fine.
Odd that.
If you add up the time spent studying up on how to get out of paying it including writing all these letters,emails and phone calls then multiply this by however much you get an hour it's probably cheaper to pay the bill.
I pity all the shops where their livelihood is bureaucratically reduced by the jealous parking company(s). 🙄
You get an extortionate fine.
When did the law change to allow private companies to issue fines for breach of contract?
When did the law change to allow private companies to issue fines for breach of contract?
fine/ticket/demanding your first born/whatever you wish to call it. I'm no lawyer.
OP. Ignore all the pious finger-waggers and read [url= http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1388006&mid=183860&nmt=Parking+Eye+lose+case+-+have+to+pay+parking%21 ]this[/url].
Appeal via the POPLA process and then await either a) ticket dismissed, or b) day in court to see ticket dismissed.
fine/ticket/demanding your first born/whatever you wish to call it. I'm no lawyer.
Quite so. Suggest you back up sharpish before you look even more foolish.
Read the judgments from the two cases posted above. They set out clearly the failings in the "legal process" and the potential criminal implications for personnel at one if these companies for their actions.
I am a lawyer. HTH.
Day in court is all well and good. You need to take a holiday so one day less of your annual allowance. That's a day's salary you've lost standing in court arguing the toss for 60 quid. The ticket will be dismissed but why bother. It was your fault.
If you're on a day off a bike ride would be better.
Won't get anywhere near court. Simple win at POPLA. If it does get to court, claim for costs and loss of earnings. Rub some salt into the parking company's wound.
It was your fault.
It's your fault a bunch if charlatans abuse the scarce legal resources we have and bully people? Nice. Remind me not to ask you for a favour "tough shit - it's your fault".
Or do you own a "parking company"? 😀
I have my own lawyer thanks 😀
Who wants to set up a car parking company with me? We'll be millionaires
8)
Ourmaninthenorth, are you in? We'll give Apcoa a run for their money.
Deal. But any failure to pay my fees will result in an instant 1,000,000% administrative fee compounded hourly.... 😉
One of the technicalities that many of these cases fail on if they reach court is that employing firms like private parking contractors can actually be against the planning consent granted for the use of the land, that it breaks the terms of the contract between the Landowner & Tenant & sometimes even the private parking firm's own contract with the Landowner (if such a contract exists in any meaningful form).
Rarely gets that far because POPLA kick it out or folk pay up.
Pedantic moral high ground ascension aside, at the bullying letters stage, its no more than 5 or 10 mins work to send off a letter or two.
So what should the landowner do?
How do you stop people using your carpark for freeparking?
Its like everything- people only complain when they are caught. The only grind is the level of charge.
I've had two parking tickets- for being late back...and one cheeky bus lane trip. Tough.
That's a day's salary you've lost standing in court arguing the toss for 60 quid. The ticket will be dismissed but why bother. It was your fault.
The (eminently more qualified than you) judge in the Bristol case dismissed the case and also awarded costs to the lady that turned up to defend her ticket. Did you even [i]read[/i] it?
How do you stop people using your carpark for freeparking?
With these companies it doesn't seem to be about that, it's about a revenue stream in itself and their primary one at that.
If it was about that they'd do as I said earlier as the other local supermarket does with an attendant tapping in reg's into a handheld looking for abuse of the parking. Not just looking to slap tickets on genuine shoppers, who naively thought he'd not need to bother with a ticket past 6 O'clock in an empty car park.
You're right Hora it's the stupid fee, if it was £10-20 I'd not have batted an eye lid and paid it but the fee's are just stupid and the way they deal with people in general is awful and I'm the one who's morals are questioned 🙄
Thanks for all the helpful comments guys