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There weren't enough willing Repulicans in the now center right coalition to vote the law through but there were enough Republicans to vote against the no confidence vote and maintain the governemnt in power. So Macron was able to use the 49-3 without the government being forced to resign. The no confidence vote was close, only failing by nine votes so it was clear some republicans who would have voted against the pensions law voted to maintain the government of which they are a part in power.
I voted enthusiasticaly for Macron first time around on the basis of his manifesto and not so enthusiastically as the least worst manifesto second time around. I'm fairly typical of those who voted Renaisance in the last presidential elections, against use of the 49-3 on such an emotive issue and unhappy with the turn to the right Macron has taken.
The protests (not riots) were bon enfant up to the use of the 49-3.
The next elections are going to be interesting. There's a gaping hole where the center left used to be.
My neighbours voted Macron to ensure Le Pen didn’t get in. He doesn’t really have a mandate for his manifesto and the parliamentary elections completed that picture.
Women get a relatively tougher deal in France - friends have to work 43 years to make full contributions so will work to 67 because they took breaks for having kids (not like UK with 35 years only requirement but 67 as retirement age). The pension is better but there’s a big gap between not having full contributions (at 62) and having full contributions. As I understand it.
A sixth republic is not a bad idea. France has always adapted. The current presidential system was de Gaulle’s design and it currently looks dangerous as it’s hard to see the choices being other than fascist or someone you don’t like.
Women get eight quarters of pension points for having one kid, that's seem reasonable. Three kids, jackpot !
My seven years of UK contributions are worth precisely nothing, I'd need ten to get anything.
There's always been someone I could vote for with enthusiasm in the first round. It's only if your prefered candidate reaches the second round that enthusiasm continues.
Having lived under both electoral systems I prefer the French one. It's so far given me a series of leaders that have represented France pretty well on the international stage and broadly managed in my interests at home.
If you think Marine Le Pen is a fascist how do you qualify Maggie, Blair, Boris, Truss, Rishi and King Charles III, Clover? The UK currently has hard right policies Le Pen knows wouldn't be accepted here and has indeed dropped from her programme.
My seven years of UK contributions are worth precisely nothing, I’d need ten to get anything
Can't you pay for missing years? Might be worth doing the maths on that
If you think Marine Le Pen is a fascist how do you qualify Maggie, Blair, Boris, Truss, Rishi and King Charles III, Clover?
I find it interesting how you repeatedly make the point on STW that the far-right in France is no worse than the UK Conservative Party and New Labour Ed.
And today I have learnt that Marine Le Pen is no more fascist than the current UK monarch.
I don't know if this absurd comparison reflects some grudging administration for the leader of the French far-right or a deep resentment of the British. I suspect that it probably a bit of both.
As a naturalised French you seem to exhibit all zealous commitment of a convert.
As a naturalised French you seem to exhibit all zealous commitment of a convert.
And you, Ernie, dive into personal insult all too easily. You spend a lot of your time bigging up the UK for a French national. Pot kettle black even if your original assertion were true.
Read Le Pen's programme and compare it with the statements of Liz truss and Priti Patel. Just be a minimum objective on your criteria for "fascist".
You spend a lot of your time bigging up the UK for a French national.
You mean that I spend a lot of time putting a realistic perspective on things.
I intensely dislike Tony Blair but to compare him with the leader of a party which has since its inception has had racism at the core of its beliefs, and whose founder dismissively described the holocaust as "a detail of history", is patently nonsense.
It has nothing to do with "bigging up" for the UK and everything to with not talking bollocks about Le Pen being no worse than Blair, and bizarrely Charlie Windsor.
And you, Ernie, dive into personal insult all too easily.
Oh you poor thing Ed ....... did you feel personally insulted? For someone who so freely dishes it out you are surprisingly sensitive.
Rule numbber one, Ernie.
I honesly feel that comparing the racist, religiously motivated war criminal Tony Blair with Le Pen is unfair on Le Pen, but there you go.
And dismissing the holocaust is words but Tony Blair sent in an army to kill tens of thousands on a false pretext. Le Pen senior got prosecuted for his words, Tony Blair did not get prosectued. In fact he got knighted. I think that says a lot about the political and judicial systems in the two countries.
British women born in the 1950's were often paid less than their male counterparts, thus being given a lesser pension. Some companies have amended this situation recently, but it left many women out of pocket.
A friend told me that the MALE politician who brought about the rise in women's pension age, then retired at the age of 61 on a very good pension, with a large bonus. Oh the irony.
I think that says a lot about the political and judicial systems in the two countries.
So it isn't just British politicians that you despise but also the British political and judicial system?
Well I am certainly no fan of a system which concentrates political and economic power in the hands of a wealthy elite but I remain unconvinced that the French model represents a dramatic improvement over the UK.
Judging by your constant criticisms you presumably believe that as a French national it is my patriotic duty to 'big up' France's political and judicial systems.
However despite believing in the unquestionable superiority of French cheese I struggle to big up a system in which the far-right are repeatedly on the verge of winning presidential elections, and with it the enormous executive powers bestowed by the 5th Republic.
You clearly have some admiration (not administration!!) for Le Pen Ed, when she and her father are compared to UK politicians.
But despite your dismissive comments I reckon this description encapsulates perfectly what we are talking about:
National Rally, previously known as National Front, is a far-right political party in France with a decades-long history of Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, racism, xenophobia, homophobia, and misogyny. National Rally has enjoyed electoral success locally, nationally, and in the European Parliament. Throughout its history, the party has been dominated by the Le Pen family, especially Jean-Marie Le Pen, a Holocaust denier and apologist of French colonialism, and his daughter, Marine Le Pen, who advocates religious discrimination against Muslims, immigrants, and migrants.
I am happy to accept that Marine Le Pen has moved away from her father's anti-semitism and now focuses more on islamophobia, like many UK far-right organisations such as the English Defence League have done.
Your first question tries to put words in my mouth as usual - I have never stated that I despise any British institution on this forum, it's not a word I use much. I beleive British justice to be hand in glove with dishonest war monger politicians:
the French model represents a dramatic improvement over the UK.
Yup
You clearly have some admiration (not administration!!) for Le Pen Ed
No I don't, it's a question of degrees of contempt, no admiration in sight.
Your quote about national rally is factually correct and explains my contempt for the party, what Blair did far worse and deserves greater contempt.
You've completely derailed a thread with your Edukator hate, Ernie. Look at the top of the page and my post which I ran past my Science Po and Humbolt educated son before posting. It's factual and bland. You have a personal vendetta which amounts to bullying and use any excuse to pick a virtual fight. You then use a series of underhand tactics I've outlined before. I guessed you'd do exactly what you've done before I even pressed return on that post up there.
Your first question tries to put words in my mouth as usual
Erm, I can't be 'putting words in your mouth' by asking a question, obviously.
You’ve completely derailed a thread with your Edukator hate, Ernie.
You have a personal vendetta which amounts to bullying and use any excuse to pick a virtual fight. You then use a series of underhand tactics I’ve outlined before.
This what you always eventually do Ed, get into a personal rant about me and how I bully you and how mean I am to you.
This thread is about the protests in France against the policies of Emmanuel Macron. Frogstomp quite reasonably points out that Macron has forced through a policy without a democratic vote.
Clover, also quite reasonably, points out people voted Macron to ensure Le Pen didn’t get in and that he doesn’t really have a mandate for his manifesto and the parliamentary elections completed that picture.
You then come along and derail the thread by banging on about bad the political and judicial systems are in the UK, and rant about Tony Blair being worse than a fascist. Somehow the King of England also gets a mention with regards to being worse than a fascist - on a thread discussing protests in France!
You end up, without a hint of irony, accusing me of derailing the thread, launching a personal attack on me, and then complaining bitterly that I am mean to you.
Get a grip ffs.
People can read what I'm typing, Ernie, they really don't need you to distort it. The thread is yours now, use it wisely.
People can read what I’m typing, Ernie
Yup, same old bollocks, different target.
If it's not Ernie it's me. If it's not me it's Molgrips, if it's not him it's someone else.
Word for word, same shite every time.
You're fooling nobody.
Now either contribute something useful to the thread or shut up until you can. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
Well the society with the machines can have the people work as well and achieve an even higher standard of living, which makes the ones without jealous and aspire to have the higher standard too.
Been the same ever since the Industrial revolution.
bollocks to that! Bring on the robot/AI revolution and I’ll quit work with basic needs met. More time to do fun stuff or volunteering. Life’s way too short for working until you’re too old and knackered to enjoy what’s left of it.
Seconded, when machines can produce most of the stuff we use now, work should be optional. (Reading Ian M Banks should be compulsory...)
As for the earlier debate about where we get the money for a bigger welfare state in order to support those made redundant by automation, I think the only long-term solution is national, publical, or communal ownership means of (automated) production
I don’t think either system is perfect and the UK is increasingly authoritarian. One of my reasons for leaving the UK was the dramatic worsening of rights for dual nationals - basically your UK passport can be revoked if you have the right to another.
Le Pen was busy with her France for the French messages at the election. She’s toned down on Frexit but was gearing up on restricting freedom of movement. That would have put me in a very precarious position.
So choice was actual awful UK versus the hovering spectre of awful. The only political movement I’m currently passionate about is electoral reform.
Reforming the all powerful presidency is a good idea. France has a good track record for change and not sticking to stuff that is past its use-by.