[Closed] Parents - cancer - what to do

Sorry to hear this.
Medical issues, ask the Dr/Oncologist/Surgeon ?
For everything financial and practical, I'd be upfront about it all and discuss it with them now.
1, It will give the ill parent the knowledge that things will be OK 'after'.
2, It will reassure your surviving parent that stuff is sorted and that practical and emotional support is close at hand
3, You will then know or should know the ins and outs of the finances looking into the future...so stuff like inheritance tax issues, finances should care be needed in the home or actually in a care home.
Really do look at a will.
(We had all this 15 years ago with my father dying)
Good luck with all of it, especially the ongoing care and support for both your parents

Can’t help too much but I would suggest Get a will done - more so with troublesome brother, probably too late for power of attorney but get that done for the remaining parent.

Good luck

How/when to tell the kids? Mine are 7 and 12, other nieces/nephews a bit older. They are all very close.

Kid can be very resilient with this.  I do not have children myself so remember that listening to my advice

Little ones ( under 10ish) tend IME to just take it in their stride.  teenagers it can be more difficult.  Once you know what the likely pathway is let them know - IMO its worse the longer you leave it.  You can do it in stages,  " granny is unwell and in hospital - we are not sure how it will go but we are hopeful"  a week later " the doctors say that its unlikely she will get better but we still have hope"  A week later " The doctors think Granny may not get over this"

I think it very important to tell kids the truth but to try to do it gently and in chunks they can digestand give them time and space to ask questions.

As regards wills - get one if you can ASAP - makes life easier but I think in the absence of one it goes to the married partner. Julie had to make a will because we were unmarried

Sorry to hear. Been dealing with similar but not terminal.

Not sure on a will. Based one of my parents dying I think it defaults to the spouse once probate is granted but your surviving parent will need one. You probably don't need to do anything other than make sure your parents know where all the pensions are etc.

Kids - very resilient (been there multiple times). Just state the facts.

Will - given the assets, you may need to take early inheritance tax advice. The estate will pass directly to the remaining spouse, but when they die, given the properties, you may have a significant liability that might be better managed now.

Brother - imagine the situation was reversed. Of course you should inform your brother. The appropriate agencies can work very fast in such circumstances to make things happen when given the heads up. https://www.gov.uk/emergency-travel-document

My mother went in for a checkup after a first round of PD-1 treatment for melanoma. She was told that she had end-stage liver failure and needed to go home and put her affairs in order. That included bringing forward a wedding by a couple of months. She died two weeks later. She had 12 grandchildren (many aged the same as yours) who each had an opportunity to say goodbye. Kids are resilient but death is permanent.

Very sorry to hear about this. I can't offer advice about the children, but when my parents went through this four years ago (my mother was given a terminal diagnosis with a life expectancy of 1-3 months, she died 28 days later) the most helpful financial advice was to ensure that there is a joint bank account* (which they didn't have) with the terminally ill persons assets to ensure that the surviving spouse had immediate access to funds, otherwise the persons who has died may well have the bank account frozen for all but funeral costs until probate. If a joint account the survivor can draw on it straight away
Also, having a will will make thinks so much more straight forward with institutions such as banks, the council etc. etc.
*As it happened, Sainsbury's bank ****ed up the setting up of the joint account and it was too late to help my dad.

Make a will- I think if intestate the children have a claim, a will should make things straightforward and help deal with troublesome family members. Given the multiple properties I would consider getting specialist advice esp tax planning.

Sorry to hear.

Cannot add too much other than get a will sorted. If you are in Scotland (user name suggest you may be) things may not all pass to your mum. My Dad passed away last year and the parents had a basic will they thought covered everything passing to the other when one died. Turned out, the law or whatever, meant my dads ‘half’ of the house went 50% to my mum and the other 50% was split between my sister and myself. I don’t know all the detail (left it to my sister) but I think it’s to do with when the house was bought and the law back then. We had to get a solicitor and signed it all back over to my mum. If inheritance tax liability is a consideration, wasn’t for us, and you are in the same situation it may be worth thinking about.

Have the conversation about end of life care. What can they / you afford if nursing care is needed, and where do they want to be at the end?
It’s not a bad idea to have this in writing for them and you, particularly if a sibling might cause problems with their care.

A will can also be used to ensure you (and your brother) get part of the assets, even if not immediately. This guarantees that even if the surviving partner marries a mail-order groom/bride, at least half of the inheritance is yours.

TJ's advice seems fairly good: kids are resilient, be honest and let them ask questions. My mother got pancreatic cancer, we told my girls initially that she was ill, and when it became clear (towards the end; about 1.5 years later) that it was terminal we let them know. They were sad, of course, but got over it fairly quickly.

Sorry to hear this.

McMillan will be able to give lots of useful advice, but from what MrsMC has been through with her parents this last 18 months, look at Power of Attorney ASAP, can be done online, get a will sorted ASAP to make sure his wishes are followed and may also prevent later issues with problem brother.

Try and get all assets and savings identified, docs to hand, passwords etc sorted.

Make sure there is a few months money accessible for your mum to live on when your dad has gone - don't want to be worrying about bills at that point.

British Embassy will be able to sort your brother out hopefully with a temp passport or some other arrangement.

RE A Will -

The intestacy rules (dying without a Will) say that the surviving spouse only gets everything if there are no children, which is not your situation.

In your situation the surviving spouse will be entitled to the first £270K of assets, the personal chattels of the deceased person and half of any assets above £270k. The other half of assets above £270k is shared equally between the surviving children.

This does not include jointly held assets which pass to the surviving joint holder (so joint bank accounts and jointly held property(just ensure that the property is not held a tenants in common as that doesn't pass to the survivor)). Also excluded are pension payouts, which go to the person that the deceased has nominated or that the pension trustees choose. In most cases this will be the surviving spouse. Some life insurance payouts will also pay to nominated beneficiaries rather than to the estate.

So as you can see the answer to whether the survivor gets everything and whether you need to get a Will in place is very much it depends.

Bottom line a Will takes away any uncertainty and can help with other planning such as protecting assets from future care costs and wicked stepmothers/ fathers.

Hope that helps.
Nick.

People have also mentioned power of attorney. Our current real world experience of registering these documents is that the Office of The Public Guardian are taking 20 weeks to register the documents. This means practically if you started today it would be six months before you could use them, so that is a judgement call you need to make based on the prognosis. There is no current system to expedite an application based on urgent need.

Check with the hospital if they have a nurse practitioner from MacMillan for the parent's condition. They are a very useful source of information and will fight your parent's corner if need be.

Treatment might stave it off for a bit but a) might not work and b) not for too long.

We had this with my Dad.

After a long conversation with the Consultant into the pro's/con's of treatment vs likely outcome, I asked what would the Consultant do if it was their Dad.

"Just take him home" was the response.

Which we did.

Sorry its an awful bit of news to hear. Each family is different and each person deals with it differently so one answer will not fit all.

From personal experience, and a wife who is a cancer surgeon and gives bad news to cancer patients daily.

Dont be afraid to ask your parents questions ie do you want me involved, do you not? What do you want me to do etc. Dont be surprised though if they say they dont want any help, or even denial of what is happening (not always the case but can be)

When my Mum was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer she asked me to attend the consultations. Bad news is difficult to take on board so you can take note of all the relevant information on their behalf. (but only if they want this). There are good and bad docs too who might not pass on the information in a good way.

Logistics - Ask parental permission first and then see if you can attend consultations with Consultant and MacMillan/Palliative Care (if at that stage). If under going treatment your parent should be assigned a MacMillan nurse who can tell you about treatment cycles, side effects, nutrition, and Finances etc. I cant stress how important it is that your parents understand what treatments is being offered/isnt being offered. You can support with this if they wish. - For yourself - I have a good employer who said take what time you need, so speak with your employer asap (dependant on the culture)

Finances - I would say dont initially worry about this, companies are understanding - family is more important initially. See MacMillan above for support.

Will - yes needed. But be careful its not a reactive discussion, or will - I certainly wouldnt be discussing it in the first week of the news.

Family - Again ask the parents its their call, but IMO tell family expect nothing.

Yourself - Make sure you are ok, have someone you can talk to.

Again, sorry to hear this. This was me 11 years ago now.

I can't recommend McMillan enough. My father was in denial right to the end and would not have the end of life conversations that a McMillan nurse can facilitate but I found their material and support lines very useful. If in Scotland Maggie's too are brilliant, albeit for slightly different things.

My only advice would be that unless you feel this is all going to happen very fast, not to rush too much. I wanted to be useful (my mo in a crisis appears to be that I need to be busy and feel needed). Stuff takes a while to digest and shoving paperwork in front of people (and in my case 'helping' by organising/clearing his workshop) can rush that 'grieving' for a life that's about to change irrevecobly more than needed.

So sorry to hear this.

My dad is going in for biopsy result today, its not looking great. I live 6 hours drive away. My mum is in complete denial. I think I'll be bookmarking this thread.

After a long conversation with the Consultant into the pro’s/con’s of treatment vs likely outcome, I asked what would the Consultant do if it was their Dad.

“Just take him home” was the response.

Very sobering but very true. Many people are in denial or want to live as long as possible. But cancer treatment is very rarely nice, and in many cases extends life, but not the quality of life. Thats the conversation to have with the Consultant. Do you want weeks of hospital treatment away from family and side effects etc. Or less (higher quality) time at home with Palliative Care etc etc.

Edit: - re kids I would be telling them personally. Kids deal with stuff better than adults on the whole, but again thats a personal family thing.

Sorry about the news.

WRITE A WILL
WRITE A WILL
WRITE A WILL
WRITE A WILL
WRITE A WILL

This can be short and simple. If they want to think about it, get them to write a simple adequate one straight away and then amend it once they've had further thoughts. Amendments are simple and cheap (may be free in fact).

As for any other advice, others may be more helpful.

WRITE A WILL

(The same goes for anyone else reading this thread who has an ounce of decency and consideration for their family, incidentally. There is no excuse for a competent adult to not have done this basic task.)

sorry to hear this.

Kids are very resilient as others have said. I'd also say that culturally we're really bad at this end of life thing, and if you adopt the same tiptoeing around approach then your kids will inherit that for another generation.

Sadly, your parent is going to die and sooner rather than later. I don't see any point in drip feeding it to the children, it's a very simple fact and one that can be sensitively stated and you can support them to assimilate. It's all about making their last few weeks or months together as comfortable, and yes, enjoyable as they can be. If their relationship with their grandparent is like my kids, that will involve the kids being as present and involved as they can be, and I'd far rather that's done properly rather than treading on eggshells with who knows what, etc.

Just tell the kids. Don't tell them lies - they will resent it for years.

I'm pretty sure Macmillan offer advice on practical stuff, money, wills etc rather than just the medical side. Unless you literally think its days rather than months I'd let the dust settle slightly before bringing it up though. Its a slightly awkward conversation without it sounding like you are either trying to get your share or stop difficult brother getting his in due course. I think you can probably use the complexity of the other properties to push to get that done sooner rather than later (it would be easy to put it off until the final few weeks). A sensible solicitor should ask about POA in these circumstances anyway. Make sure you are getting advice for the right country though - rules in Scotland and England vary, and in Scotland you can't (easily?) disinherit children even with a will.

As for your brother - he'll not get back in without a passport. There is a process for getting a passport urgently at a consulate or embassy. That would probably be easier if he has supporting information from you/your parents as to why it was urgent. Personally I'd have apprehensive about not telling him - certainly unless your parents have expressly asked you not to, or you think you'll have better information to give him a more complete picture in a week then it feels wrong to lock him out completely. He'll find out eventually and it won't help the relationships to know you didn't tell him, and likely will fuel anger that might result in arguments over wills etc. Realistically telling him now, lets him get some of his shit in order to come over rather than it suddenly being your problem when in the last week your Dad says he'd like to see him, or the funeral arrangements are being postponed so he can get a passport.

Sorry to hear your news, had the same 23yrs ago & didn't really get to grips with it but I did get my 3 kids all under 11 at the time to see & say by to their gran at the time, which I think really helped them deal with it.

Having been through similar recently, this is a bit of an unstructured dump…

A will is essential, it really helps make life easier and it also focuses your parent on what they want. It may be too late for an LPA (expect 12 to 20 weeks to grant), but conversely it may not and LPA’s make life a LOT easier. All that aside, its time to ask your folks what they want to do and conversely what they dont want done (eg DNR conditions). Dont allow them to be pushed into anything because its the ‘done thing’, now they need to be selfish.

Macmillan nurses are worth their weight in gold. They grease the wheels of all things NHS related, but also you can have proper conversations with them and in my experience you get empathic answers that are more honest.

On the care front, if its sadly end of life care, that is state funded. Either way, get care engaged sooner rather than later, its a lot easier to vary things if you’re already ‘in the system’.

Lots more practical info available via pm if you want.

Things im glad i did:

- got dads mobile pin, you can access so many services via a password reset to mobile if you need to.
- had a proper chat about what he wanted and made sure it happened.
- spent decent time together just having a cuppa and a laugh.

Things i really wish i had done:

- got a recording of his voice
- got more recent pics
- made more notes about his life…. When significant events changed etc.
- bought a prepaid funeral plan
- got a list of account numbers / providers for stuff (eg insurances, utilities, council tax)

On the personal front, i told my son his grandad was ill, without too many details. It helped ease fhe shock. Re your brother, i’d ask your folks what they want to do. Its their choice really.

It's the parents' responsibility to tell their absent son, not the poster's.

AS you probably know I have been thru this recently

One thing that has really helped me is being very open and honest about what is happening with family and friends.  Perhaps brutally honest.  But by doing so it makes it much easier for family and friends to help.  it removes the "elephant in the room"  I have taken the same approach to my feelings as well.

PM me if you want a bit of support or advice that you do not want to put openly on here but this place is a good source of support as well

good luck

Be aware that MacMillan quality seems to vary by region - things may have improved since we needed them, but they seemed to be mostly conspicuous by their absence for us. The practice nurses and Marie Curie were amazing, though.
Definitely tell the kids that their grandparent is not well - my parents weren’t good at talking about that kind of thing, and I had a couple of quite nasty shocks when they had been trying to “protect” me…
On the other hand, you do need to respect what your parents want - they may not want everyone to know, or they may want people to know who you don’t think should be told. It’s their choice, not yours, and if they don’t want the kids to know how bad it is, you should work it out between you, not make unilateral decisions, however much you disagree with their ideas.

After a long conversation with the Consultant into the pro’s/con’s of treatment vs likely outcome, I asked what would the Consultant do if it was their Dad.

“Just take him home” was the response.

Which we did.

Julies consultant did not quite go that far tho I asked a similar question

Julie took the decision to refuse all treatment.

However the wishes of your ill parent is the key thing.  do they want to fight to the end or do they just want to go home to die?

julie chose to go home and die and i am utterly convinced the right decision.  It meant she got a couple of weeks of love and laughter at home rather than remaining in hospital with tubes stuck into her.  quantity was shorter but quality was higher

But if your parent is someone who wants to fight to the end then that is also their choice.  The key thing is to give them the space to make their choice and then to support them in that decision whether it goes the way you want or not.  that can be very hard if you are not comfortable with the decision which ever way it goes

best of luck

I’m very sorry to hear this. Make sure you take time to look after yourself, but I understand that getting all these important issues could help you too.

Regarding the kids, this was on the guardian recently. I’d say it agrees largely with tj’s advice, and I’d agree with that advice too.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/17/how-should-i-talk-to-children-about-death-be-brief-but-honest-and-answer-their-questions

As has already been said get a will in place. Regarding POA I guess this will not be needed for your sick parent as their wife/ husband can make health and financial decision for them (assuming they have joint accounts).
If the sick parent doesn't have joint bank accounts then now would be a good time get that in place, either with the healthy parent or with you as it saves a lot of hassle during the period where you are sorting out funeral etc.
For end of life care try to have a conversation and seek advice regarding home vs hospice. Having seen my sister-in-law die at home as was her wish the palliative care team did their best but keeping on top of the meds dosage is a lot easier if there is a doctor immediately available like there would be at a hospice.
Now might be a good time to have a conversation with your healthy parent regarding POA for them at some point.

the palliative care team did their best but keeping on top of the meds dosage is a lot easier if there is a doctor immediately available like there would be at a hospice.

Julie had her meds dosage increased by the district nurses ( some of them are prescribers) using advice from the hospice palliative care team.  Seen by a doc twice in 4 weeks.  Meds increased every 3rd day

Get to a solicitor and an IFA with your parents now. Unless they have already done the planning. This should remove some uncertainties and keep the focus on living.

Hi folks

Thanks for the above. Haven't managed to read it all in depth but loads of useful info.

Things are moving fast here. First treatment was today (pulled forward from next week as doc thought it might be too late to make a difference). She is ok in herself somehow. Picking her up soon and meet the doc re permissions and updates at 3.

Dad shocked and upset but engaged and moving forward with things.

Brother - he knows and is ok. Emergency travel docs can be issued if necessary and good flights from Prague to Edi/Gla.

Other brother has taken some time off work to help with things, talking to other family members etc.

Banks this morning with dad so as long as mum is ok we will be there tomorrow to sign everything into joint accounts with dad.

Solicitors tomorrow at midday for a will.

No time for Power of attorney but will look at this in due course for my dad.

Thanks again!

TS.

Sorry to hear this, cant really comment on the questions other than when to tell the kids:

From my experience tell them early, be honest and be concise and stick to facts, do not tell them that everything will be okay as it ultimately wont.

This will most likely be the most devastating news they have ever heard, let them cry, let them shout, let them do whatever they need to (within reason) to deal with it, let them know they can ask questions and nothing is off limits.
Anything they ask which you dont know, write down and find out and get back to them.

Equally get in touch with a local hospice or doctor and see if they offer counselling to relatives, our local hospice were brilliant with this.

I say all of this from personal experience, i was 14 when my mum got diagnosed and i was 20 when she passed, and i still remember sitting in our living room and my mum and dad telling us what the news was and what they were going to do, and what it meant for us.

Horrible time for you, thoughts are with you and family.

I'm so very sorry to hear this, it's a thoroughly horrible situation, really feel for you and family.

My Dad recently had a mini-stroke and a seizure, a warning for something much worse, which he has already been told could happen in the next couple of months. Will is done, but we're hurriedly trying to get an LPA done (for both Mum and Dad) as quickly as possible, to try to mitigate all the challenges around both medical and financial decisions when the time arises. I fear it will take too long for my Dad sadly.

After years of avoiding the horrible conversations nobody wants have, I do wish I'd done more about this sooner. Nobody wants to talk about it (including me!) or think about the worst case but I'd urge anyone who's parents are at that age and don't have a plan, to have that awkward conversation now, I am playing catch up during a very difficult few months having recently lost an aunty and uncle.

Anyway, sending positive vibes TS.

arghh. sorry to read this. heart goes out to you and the rest of the family.
Wills should be written, as matter of course. Can't recall if they can be contested.
Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to help with admin side of things.
power of attorney - probably too late for immediate parent, though could be useful. Have the conversation with the remaining parent. FWIW we've had POAs written since around the time we got married or at least when children came along.

Just have to be straight with the children. Ours were - checks notes - 7&5 when my dad had a life changing stroke, and only a few years older when he died. They did find it difficult, particularly our son, but the fact that in mean time we'd moved nearer them, and saw my my mum more often after that, made it manageable.

[ edit - think you have most of out covered ] good point about the joint names accounts, makes things easier to keep things ticking along rather than on hold.

Julie had her meds dosage increased by the district nurses ( some of them are prescribers) using advice from the hospice palliative care team. Seen by a doc twice in 4 weeks. Meds increased every 3rd day

Same with my sister-in-law TJ but I think her disease progressed faster at the end as she was under the palliative team's care for less than a fortnight. The district nurses could increase medication but only within a certain range and then they had to get a doctor to OK a further increase. It might only take a couple of hours to get this done but its a couple of hours of suffering until the dose is increased. Every case is differnt and I'm not saying home care can't work- it clearly did for your partner- but its made me think about what choice I'd make if the worst happened.

Apologies if I have misreada comment above, and feel free to disagree.

I don't think it's is your parents' decision on whether to tell your kids or not ( did I read that right?)

It's your decision as a parent and I would strongly urge you to tell them.

Fair enough up on the downs.  I think me being there made it easier as I would let them know that i wanted the dose upped in plenty of time for the next syringe driver change.  Knowing your way round the system is a huge boon.

Hi folks.

Thanks again for all the comments.

@thegeneralist. Definitely our decision re the kids, no one would expect anything else.

Re the kids (11 and 7) in general - started breaking them in gently and honestly. Me and D are really open and honest about everything with them so will be with this too. They’ll be down Saturday for the day, I’ll see him mum is as to what I tell them but it could well be the last time they see her.

We had a big family Christmas, I insisted on it. Just as well really 😬

Banks and solicitor tomorrow all being well.

Knackered now, bed soon. 👍

TS.

Ps thanks for the private messages, what a wonderful forum (normally 😆)