Paper shop duty of ...
 

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[Closed] Paper shop duty of care.

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Should a newsagent ensure that their paperboys have lights on their bikes?

I ask as our local delivery ninja riding down our badly lit but busy lane was only visible from about 20ft away this morning.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:09 am
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my answer would be no. blame the parents.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:12 am
 DrP
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Jeesh - it seems to be a requirement of employment round 'ere ('ere having NO street lighting) for the paper people t wear only black, have a hoodie covering their peripheral vision, buckled rear wheel (with brake disconnected, obviously), and a single flashing red light (on front or rear) pointing to the floor (if we're lucky)..

DrP


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:14 am
 Drac
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Only if they supply the bike.

When I was one when many moons ago they did supply you with a Hi-Viz jacket to wear.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:30 am
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Yes. Duty of care stuff from HASAW Act 1974 and sundry regulations following on.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:31 am
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You mean the paperboys round your way aren't being driven from door to door by their mum?


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:41 am
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I often see a paperboy early mornings when walking the dogs and I am amazed that he has no lights.

I find it incredible that any parents would allow their kids to go out regularly without lights.

They cost next to nothing nowadays (my kids school were giving them away free a few weeks ago). The batteries last forever as well, unlike when I were a lad and two massive D cells lasted a few hours (if you were lucky).


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:43 am
 br
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[i]When I was one when many moons ago they did supply you with a Hi-Viz jacket to wear. [/i]

No, many moons ago was when I was a kid and no one wore them, including workmen.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:49 am
 Drac
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No, many moons ago was when I was a kid and no one wore them, including workmen.

Did Health and Safety then go mad some years later?


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 7:59 am
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Responsibility on the employer and I suspect this is morally and legally BUT if they're old enough to be let out unsupervised then there's an even greater responsibility on the parents to make sure they have a safe bike and lights. My much younger kids ride on the pavement still but even they have lights on (one is still on the balance bike).

I got some great lights for the kids a torch front, led rear on offer from Decathlon - the cost a whopping £10 - there is no excuse.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 8:02 am
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how it used to work when i did it last was

3 strikes being seen with no lights = no job.

the owner was always about driving between his three shops in town and customers used to let you know as well - some people did get asked not to return.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 8:53 am
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Are they forced to use a bike for the job or do hey choose to? I use my own car for work and the condition of that car is my responsibility.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 8:54 am
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It's too windy where I live for paperboys


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:00 am
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If they are employed by the newsagent of course there is a duty of care and there should also be a risk assessment. Any necessary PPE must also be provided for. Work equipment (bike and lights) can be in the contract as required to be supplied by the employee, but the employer should satisfy themselves that it is safe and maintained.

Sounds heavy, but if a newsagent can't knock up a risk assessment for a paperboy in 5 minutes, give them a £1.50 hi vis and tell them to nip down to Halfords and get a set of lights for £8 then they probably shouldn't be in business.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:02 am
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i did 4 years as a paperboy/shop assistant by the end - never once saw a contract for a paperboy. nor a risk assessment.

some of the best paperboys we had actually used rollerblades.... was quicker if your round was close to the shop.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:07 am
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Don't forget that lights are only needed by law during the hours of darkness, so no lights needed in the half hour before sunrise or after sunset.

Depends where you are, but at the moment that means that in the SE you don't legally have to show lights after 7.04 am.

Not having lights then would be bloody suicide IMO, but dems da rules.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:09 am
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On a similar note is it legal for fast food places to use delivery staff on mopeds who don't have full licenses and are therefore doing the job with L-Plates fitted?


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:12 am
 DezB
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[i]I find it incredible that any parents would allow their kids to go out regularly without lights.[/i]

Especially as a reasonable set of lights is so bloody cheap! Like, a fiver on ebay to keep your kid safe. Trouble is, people are morons.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:13 am
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Edit: nothing to see here!


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:14 am
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Yes and even more so due to the age of the employee. That is one could reasonably expect an adult to follow instructions and one could reasonably expect a non adult to not follow instruction.

I use my own car for work and the condition of that car is my responsibility.

If they pay you mileage they need to ensure it is road legal.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:15 am
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so long as their insurance covers them for business use - or the pizza companys insurance covers them for being CBT only - which is the requirement for riding a vehicle restricted to 28mph.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:19 am
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"If they pay you mileage they need to ensure it is road legal."

which is fine in theory - but as the driver at the time , ultimately it is ALWAYS your responsibility to ensure its road legal - you will recieve the points and the fines and your employer is not obligated to do anything with them - even if its a company vehicle.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 9:20 am
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It's too windy where I live for paperboys
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:03 am
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ultimately it is ALWAYS your responsibility to ensure its road legal

But they need to do basic checks

Re company vehicle they cannot provide you with an uninsured no MOT vehicle and say its your problem not theirs

Essentially it assume both sides will do the minimum and their are responsibilities on both sides


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:07 am
 br
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[i]Did Health and Safety then go mad some years later? [/i]

1974 Act I think, but not mad, just sensible.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:12 am
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Any construction worker on the highway and it'd be class 2 hi viz, traffic management plan, section 74 notices..blah blah blah. Luckily children are plentiful and expendable, so crack on.

Coming from a construction environment and thinking about the risk assessment process if paper shops were to produce RAMS they'd probably have no 'young persons' as one of the controls. Show the risks below to a H&S bod out of context and he'd sh!t.

Young persons
Traffic
Lone working
unsociable hours


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:15 am
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so long as their insurance covers them for business use - or the pizza companys insurance covers them for being CBT only - which is the requirement for riding a vehicle restricted to 28mph.

When I was on my CBT years, my 125 did a hell of a lot more than 28mph...

If your over 17, you can ride any 125 on a CBT.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:28 am
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aye but pizza hut/dominos mopeds are restricted to 28mph it would seem ..... having followed a few out the north deeside.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:34 am
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Have you ever tried forcing a 14 year old lad who rides a brakeless bmx, to put lights on it? I have and gave up see also helmet, pads, brakes. Not condoning it just saying its difficult.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:37 am
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There is a Pizza delivery moped with no front light still delivering every night in Cambridge....

I find it incredible that any parents would allow their kids to go out regularly without lights

I would say something like 80% of cyclists in Cambridge (and there are 1000s) ride at night with no lights....


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:52 am
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Have you ever tried forcing a 14 year old lad who rides a brakeless bmx, to put lights on it? I have and gave up see also helmet, pads, brakes. Not condoning it just saying its difficult.

They would not be working for me and were it my child they would not be riding that bike


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 10:55 am
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Junkyard - lazarus

Have you ever tried forcing a 14 year old lad who rides a brakeless bmx, to put lights on it? I have and gave up see also helmet, pads, brakes. Not condoning it just saying its difficult.

They would not be working for me and were it my child they would not be riding that bike

Amen!


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 1:19 pm
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i see raveydavey has real actual everyday kids.


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 1:26 pm
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Yes, if you think you are the one that is going to run him over.

No, if someone else will ... 😯


 
Posted : 26/11/2014 1:38 pm

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