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Have we done this? Adrian Chiles just been in R4 discussing this. He started out explaining the difference between legal and illegal ‘moped’ e-bikes which has to be a good thing. Will watch it later
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0026sww/panorama-ebikes-the-battle-for-our-streets
Yet the cover shot on Iplayer is this....
He looks a right menace!
Good to see Adrian Chiles (hopefully) doing some proper journalism rather than comment pieces in the Guardian about whether to have Corn Flakes or Frosties for breakfast.
I am not aware of the kind of conflicts and problems with e-motorbikes/"e-bikes" here in Germany as is reported in the media and on here for the UK. That could just be that the problems aren't being amplified by an ant-cycling media. Of course normal e-bikes (and cycling in general) are much more accepted in Germany, often owned by middle class middle aged or older people who use them, and often commute with them in summer, so it is harder for the media to create a them and us conflict.
We all know that the issue is throttle e-motorbikes, and unfortunately genuine e-bikes are then lazily dragged into the same debate, as evidenced by the title of the Panorama programme. I do think the likes of Just East and Deliveroo have a role to play here, as the vast majority of problematic city centre riding is by couriers delivering on their behalf.
The programme title is reassuringly lacking in sensationalism.
Given that there are some on here who run chipped e bikes there will undoubtedly be the need for a hipocracy filter.
You can ride any bike like a dick, you can drive any car like a dick but I don't see any discussion about limiting the performance of cars and driving behaviour of car drivers.
Electric cars seem to have a higher accident rate than conventional cars and electric cars and hybrid cars have more collisions with pedestrians than ICE cars.
We need a more general discusion about road safety and road user behaviour.
The way to stop illegal motorcycles is to make it much harder to buy one.
I was in london over the weekend for the first time in a couple of years, food delivery riders were everywhere not pedalling cruising up hills circa 20mph. We drove in to town and the 20mph limits everywhere made me think it would be a great place to commute by bike in, but in the centre amount of, the speed, and the situational awareness of the delivery riders put me right off. a lot of them give zero shits about red lights, including pedestrian crossings.
Nice to see the BBC getting the intellectual big guns on the subject with the sellotaped bawbag himself hosting. I’m sure it’ll be a serious piece of journalism and not just some sensationalist tabloid-esque claptrap.
I’d watch it, but that would involve listening to Adrian Chiles for half an hour and quite frankly I’d rather remove my own kidneys with a teaspoon
As with many of these Panorama programmes, there's a bit of hope and optimism in the build up to it, later dashed by the amount of camera time given to idiots saying nonsense that's left unchallenged on the grounds of "presenting both sides of the debate".
You'll get a couple of rational active travel type folk, a sort of Chris Boardman-lite local cycling bod but who'll be presented as a weirdy-beardy oddjob.
And you'll get a couple of old biddies who were NEARLY KILLED!! by hurtling reckless dangerous unlicenced non-road-tax-paying "e-bikers", probably delivering drugs under the guise of food delivery while being masked and hooded and having no number plates.
And Chiles will put on his best "earnest journalist" face and the programme will wrap up.
electric cars and hybrid cars have more collisions with pedestrians than ICE cars.
Potentially down to the lack of ICE noise pre-warning said pedestrian to look up from phone before deciding whether it's safe to cross the road? I've certainly needed to recondition my brain to be more aware due to this.
but in the centre amount of, the speed, and the situational awareness of the delivery riders put me right off.
I commute fairly regularly into central London on the bike. Regardless of the car packed roads before hitting central areas, the most dangerous part of the journey is the cycle superhighway lanes simply down to the multitude of users with little spacial/situational awareness and regard for other users (and I include in this all manner of 'cyclists'), not to mention the e-scooters, rickshaws and even the odd pedestrian/runner who thinks they are a footpath.
crazy-legs
Full MemberAs with many of these Panorama programmes, there’s a bit of hope and optimism in the build up to it, later dashed by the amount of camera time given to idiots saying nonsense that’s left unchallenged on the grounds of “presenting both sides of the debate”.
You’ll get a couple of rational active travel type folk, a sort of Chris Boardman-lite local cycling bod but who’ll be presented as a weirdy-beardy oddjob.
And you’ll get a couple of old biddies who were NEARLY KILLED!! by hurtling reckless dangerous unlicenced non-road-tax-paying “e-bikers”, probably delivering drugs under the guise of food delivery while being masked and hooded and having no number plates.
And Chiles will put on his best “earnest journalist” face and the programme will wrap up.
Why don't you watch it? Seeing as you are an open minded chap?
and unfortunately genuine e-bikes are then lazily dragged into the same debate
not helped by some supposedly reputable companies playing fast and loose. I was very surprised to follow someone on a Go-Cycle that was throttle controlled, even more so that they'd been supplied it like that by a big electric bike shop in London. (though at least the speed limiter was still in place).
I do think the likes of Just East and Deliveroo have a role to play here, as the vast majority of problematic city centre riding is by couriers delivering on their behalf.
100% - I work in the centre of Leeds and the damn things fly up and down the pedestrianised centre, run red lights, ride on pavements etc.
The general public and the media do seem to struggle with the correct use of the word 'E-Bike'. I think this is because the terminology used for bicycles is inconsistent with the terminology used for cars. i.e. an electric vehicle (EV) is 100% electric powered, whereas an electric bicycle (E-Bike) is our world is not 100% electric.
Maybe we should start calling our legal E-bikes 'Plug-in Hybrids' to be consistent with the rest of the motorised vehicle world and let them use the term E-Bike for anything above the legal definition for an electronically assisted pedal cycle.
It not just ebikes. In most cities there are plenty people on bikes riding like complete dicks.
"Freshers week" is very special as you get an influx of wannabe couriers and gormless confused pedestrians standing in the bike lane.
One of the things that Birmingham was considering was banning all bikes from problem areas.
We actually need a considered approach to this issue not just a series of bike bans.
From what I've read, a lot of the illegal bikes used by delivery riders are being used by immigrants without a right to work, purchasing a delivery account from someone else and renting a bike. It sounds like modern day slavery, with Uber, Deliveroo, Just Eat etc.. being the benificiaries.
Why don’t you watch it? Seeing as you are an open minded chap?
I did. It was pretty much exactly as I spelt it out earlier.
Chiles summed up at the end of the programme that he came into this "quite grumpy about e-bikes" (nice to have someone impartial on board, eh?), added that he could see their value and then said that without strong regulation "chaos could be coming our way". I can only imagine his horror when he learns about cars...
Plenty of pics of speeding Surron riders, phones being snatched by e-bikers, a collision between a pedestrian and a Lime rider (the collision was 100% the fault of the pedestrian for stepping into the cycle lane without so much as a glance) and lots of shots of food delivery riders offset by a statement from the companies that "they take safety seriously".
At no point did it show a tradesperson on an e-cargo bike, a family doing the school run, any example of "we use an e-bike instead of a car".
The general public and the media do seem to struggle with the correct use of the word ‘E-Bike’. I think this is because the terminology used for bicycles is inconsistent with the terminology used for cars. i.e. an electric vehicle (EV) is 100% electric powered, whereas an electric bicycle (E-Bike) is our world is not 100% electric.
I've thought this too, maybe "Pedelec" for bikes that are electric assisted, and leave "E-bike" for surrons and such.
Read an article today and there have been quite a few deaths and lots of injuries caused by e-scooters being ridden on pavements. I hope the article differentiates between the legal and non-legal stuff. I have issues with 'food delivery' riders on my commute home, all ridden by bell ends. Zero road sense. Stopped at traffic lights, just before Christmas, and one decides to ride between me and the curb as I set off, all of two foot between me and the curb. Then there are the sur-ron drugs couriers !
...but I don’t see any discussion about limiting the performance of cars and driving behaviour of car drivers...
Apart from the mandatory fitting (not yet mandatory use) of speed limiting/notification to all new cars, a generally good thing IMO, but I still seem to be getting tailgated every time I dare to use mine and actually drive at 20 in a 20 or 30 in a 30.
I'm generally suspicious of any documentary about road transport where the title includes the word "Battle", that strongly implies there's a bias towards playing up conflicts and argumentative ****tery, rather than looking at the various competing issues affecting transport in the UK and examining facts (rather than feelings)...
I do think the electrification of personal transport needs a bit more thought and refinement of the rules and regs, despite not being a fan of eebs I don't actually think they're much of a problem, the existing rules just need enforcing, the number of adapted BSOs working as a sketchy Deliveroo vehicles and Drug dealers on Surrons are actually already legislated for.
Where I think the main bollock was dropped is over E-Scooters, the "use on private land only" "rental only on the roads" rules were a mistake and instead proper rules allowing private ownership design, performance and classification should have been brought in promptly, the number of dockless E-scooters still cluttering up bits of London and other cities attest to this. E-scooter rental is just a flawed model, allowing people to own and use compact, low speed (~15mph) E-scooters in urban areas makes way more sense.
It's an older video now but I like this one as an analysis of E-scooter issues:
Read an article today and there have been quite a few deaths and lots of injuries caused by e-scooters being ridden on pavements
It was the front page of the Mail when I was in the newsagents.
Headline: Deaths and injuries from escooters triple in last 3 years
Ignoring: In line with increase in numbers of said scooters.
I have issues with ‘food delivery’ riders on my commute home
That's one sector where some sort of registration number might have a positive impact. A "how's my riding" scheme implemented and funded by the likes of deliveroo & just eat. The trouble is that the likes of the Mail would see this as proof that ALL cyclists should have registration numbers which is enough to make me put up with the occasional throbber on an illegal ebike.
but in the centre amount of, the speed, and the situational awareness of the delivery riders put me right off. a lot of them give zero shits about red lights, including pedestrian crossings.
I’ve collided with a delivery rider whilst halfway across a Zebra crossing in Soho. Rider was looking at his phone. My foot was unharmed as I was wearing steel toecaps.
That’s one sector where some sort of registration number might have a positive impact. A “how’s my riding” scheme implemented and funded by the likes of deliveroo & just eat.
Another of the benefits for these companies of using freelance workers rather than employees. Not there problem unless there is a massive reduction in demand
Here you go, a summary to save you wasting an hour watching it.
Yeah, I think that the delivery drivers problem is more a gig economy issue than an ebike issue, create working conditions where they don't need to do stupid things to try and earn a tuppence, and that could well change.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/How_debt_kills
Yeah, I think that the delivery drivers problem is more a gig economy issue than an ebike issue, create working conditions where they don’t need to do stupid things to try and earn a tuppence, and that could well change.
FWIW, the likes of Lime etc charging per minute for riding also prompts stupid behaviour like getting to the destination as quickly as possible to make it cheaper. It could be largely solved pretty quickly by having a "per 10-minute" block of time for example. I know they do a Ride Pass system where you can buy a discounted block of 60, 120 etc minutes to be used in the next 3, 5 days but not sure how much that's used by customers.
Santander had a better system of £2 per 24hr period then as many sub-30 minute rides as you wanted in that time. Then they changed the pricing structure to a per-ride model and Santander Cycles use dropped through the floor.
They've reintroduced it now but I think it's £3 per 24hr period.
legal E-bikes ‘Plug-in Hybrids’ to be consistent
H-bikes - electrically assisted pedal bikes
E-bikes - electrically powered two wheeled vehicles
works for me.
Here you go, a summary to save you wasting an hour watching it.
Reads pretty much as expected TBH, I would watch it with my missus later but she'll just get annoyed at me shouting at Adrians witless mug.
I suppose a better headline would be "Light-entertainer with salad allergy, is not a cheerleader for E-bikes... Shokka!"
Is Adrian struggling for work? Panorama doesn't seem like his wheelhouse TBH, has he been cancelled off the One Show or whatever cultural fluff he typically fronts? Did he send dick-pics to the wrong assistant producer or something?
One of the things that Birmingham was considering was banning all bikes from problem areas.
And in Birmingham the problem is overwhelmingly Just Eat/Deliveroo/Uber Eats riders. When you have one of them coming the other way on the A38 blue route cycle lane, unlit, all in black, one hand on the bars, looking at their phone with the other, doing what, 20, 25mph? That's got "catastrophic head-on collision" written all over it.
I hate - hate - the disregard they have for pedestrians in pedestrianised areas.
I hate – hate – the disregard they have for pedestrians in pedestrianised areas.
Willing to bet that many of those pedestrians get home and go "what shall we have for tea tonight...?" and then get on the app and order something from Just Eat and get arsey when it doesn't arrive in 15 minutes...
That whole delivery model needs to be looked at - it basically not only incentivises but pretty much demands that the rider goes like a bat out of hell to get the food to you. It used to be the little pizza delivery mopeds that were renowned for being driven like they were stolen, now there's a whole new mode of vehicle for the time-pressured gig-economy worker to ride!
the problem is overwhelmingly Just Eat/Deliveroo/Uber Eats riders.
Would be good if if those apps paid the riders enough to afford an actual e-bike not a lash-up ebay kit taped onto an old Carrera.
I hate – hate – the disregard they have for pedestrians in pedestrianised areas.
I guess they no longer GAF, they have delivering and making ends meet to worry about and making ends meet would be hard if JE etc is your gig.
Lordy what a mess that was.. so there are no laws governing what's legal and what's not and all us ebikers are going round killing old people and running over kids. Government! Please help us all!
Not watched this episode of panorama.
My concern is the sheer volume of cars parked next to the pavement.
Round my part of town, there’s so many shop owners who park adjacent to their premises.
The city already has an adequate public transport infrastructure.
You’d think they were commuting from Timbuktoo.
Then they say that their vans need to be close to their premises to assist unloading of goods.
Surely the wholesalers can assist with their computerised inventory and send out a wagon to their customers as when BBC stocks run low?
Better to reserve these strips of road for the trams.
Then you could quickly travel all the way from leith to Glasgow airport.
I tend to ignore all this nonsense as we all know the real killer on the roads are not bikes it is vehicles. There's been like 3/4 deaths of pedestrians in Edinburgh the past month or so all from vehicles. Until that is sorted then all this focus on bike stuff is just pissing in the wind to please Daily Mail readers.
Read an article today and there have been quite a few deaths and lots of injuries caused by e-scooters being ridden on pavements.
Watched a bloke on one on the footpath opposite the cafe I was sitting in the other afternoon, going at least as fast as someone on a regular bike, as he got to the end of the path, where the path turns 90° to the right, and there’s an exit to a small area of car parking spaces, he just blithely carried straight on, anyone pushing a pushchair, or driving out of the car park would have been hit by a halfwit sitting on what must be close to 1/4 ton of unlicensed vehicle.
I ‘see’ a lot of the delivery bikes around as well, I say ‘see’, because few have lights of any sort, the riders gear always seems to be black, apart from the big orange or green box on their back, totally invisible to anyone in front of them.
Oddly, I’ve seen very few of the oiks on Sur-Ron bikes of late - I don’t follow local media, but I wonder if there’s been a major purge by local plod. I live in hope.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgxdxqw5g9o
In a prevention of future deaths report sent to the Department for Transport in late December, and published on Monday, Mr Hartley said: "During the course of the inquest the evidence revealed matters giving rise to concern.
"In my opinion, there is a risk that future deaths could occur unless action is taken.
"In the circumstances it is my statutory duty to report to you. The matters of concern are as follows: there is no requirement that riders of electric scooters wear helmets.
"Due to the expectation of their use on the road, and their vulnerability, there is a risk of death to riders of electric scooters and bicycles not wearing protective headwear who are involved in collisions, even at lower speeds."
It'll be registration plates and mandatory helmets on push bikes before you know it, once Reform get in.
Is Adrian struggling for work? Panorama doesn’t seem like his wheelhouse TBH, has he been cancelled off the One Show or whatever cultural fluff he typically fronts? Did he send dick-pics to the wrong assistant producer or something?
You're spouting a lot of bile at someone you don't seem to know much about. You are Elon Musk and ICMFP
Couldn't resist it - watched the first 15 mins or so. Was poorly hosted / zero research done / zero attempt to establish facts around legality / full of bias-based comments and clueless opinion. The guy with the e-bike collection did a great job of being a bad rep for e-bike owners, that seemed like a stitch up or he just wasn't smart enough to think where the whole thing was going. The bit about C2W and "tax free illegal e-bikes!!"and the Telegraph talking head guy's reaction to the conclusion the programme jumped to on that was where I switched off. Maybe I missed the re-balance later on but I doubt it.
I'm pretty confident they won't have mentioned all the work the OPSS and Bicycle Associaton of the UK are doing to limit sales of unsafe and illegal moped (over-powered e-bikes), or the fact that the reason there are so many around is a failure to enforce existing legistaltion over the last decade or more.
So, Panorama .. a load of clickbaity bollocks parading as a credible fact-based documentary series?
If you aren't happy about it complain to the BBC. It's about as easy as posting on here and at least you'll be ranting to the right person
I wouldn't know where to start, complaining about that. Can I complain about Chiles' face?? Wandering the streets looking like someone had shoved a dogshit up his left nostril every time he saw a bike? Lumping the Lime hire bikes in with standard ebikes; the food courier illegal bikes; sur-ron riders running from the cops - as if they are all the same thing? And capable of killing everything in sight?! And that was just 3 mins of what I saw. The whole thing was just indescribably crap.
I wouldn’t know where to start,
You seem to know exactly where to start, you can cut and paste it
Quite glad I decided to go out instead of watching it.
Can I complain about Chiles’ face?? Wandering the streets looking like someone had shoved a dogshit up his left nostril every time he saw a bike?
Thats a really helpful and adult attitude!
If you cant make a reasoned argument resort to abuse.
You know the opinion pieces that Chiles writes in the Guardian?
I don't, but I read something on road.cc about him writing there that £4k cargo bikes were a class thing. Quality take, Mr C.
My OH was telling me we should cancel our TV license recently and there I was telling her that the BBC was alright.. I wouldn't flounce based on that one programme but if that's the level Panorama has got to my argument looks weak.
I’d watch it, but that would involve listening to Adrian Chiles for half an hour and quite frankly I’d rather remove my own kidneys with a teaspoon
I'd rather remove Adrian Chiles kidneys with a teaspoon. A nice, slow, painful death would be a pleasure to inflict on that idiot...
Agree for the total disregard for any laws that Just-Eat/Deliveroo riders have whether they're on a normal bike or e-bike. Absolute weapons grade bellends in general. And of course that means the local anti-cycling brigade in the local rag are frothing at the mouth because of all these "cyclists" disregarding the law and how they should pay "tax", have licences, think of the children they're mowing down, shouldn't ride 2 abreast, should use the roads instead of the glass/dog shit covered cycle paths etc....
The BBC seems to have given up on any serious news programming completely. Panorama used to be worth watching. A proper reportage programme. Not any more.
Let’s face it, it was never going to be a serious news piece, more an extended version of some bit of fluff they’d have on the One Show, especially with that half-wit hosting it, who seems to possess all the critical faculties of a cricket bat
Agree for the total disregard for any laws that Just-Eat/Deliveroo riders have whether they’re on a normal bike or e-bike. Absolute weapons grade bellends in general.
Don't hate the player, hate the game?
And of course that means the local anti-cycling brigade in the local rag are frothing at the mouth because of
etc…
They were doing that long before some poor sods tried to earn £30 a day delivering food and they'll do it whatever. They're the AWGBs imho.
Thats a really helpful and adult attitude!
If you cant make a reasoned argument resort to abuse.
What??
(That's me wondering who gave you the job of policing my forum posts, in case you were wondering)
I presume you haven't seen the programme.
I don’t, but I read something on road.cc about him writing there that £4k cargo bikes were a class thing. Quality take, Mr C.
It's here if you want to lose a few more brain cells:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/16/3999-for-a-cargo-bike-how-a-new-kind-of-class-politics-arrived-on-britains-streets
Turns out that the height of middle class entitlement is not a £40,000 SUV being driven half a mile to the school gates, it's actually a £4000 e-cargo bike! Who knew?!
There is no need for reasoned argument when the other side haven't bothered themselves.
The real subject for that 'documentary' should have been an investigation into the food delivery companies and their links to slavery, tax avoidance and migrant exploitation.
If they want another target to go after how about the badly thought out and poorly implemented laws on electrified personal transport or even the complete lack of any joined up cycle infrastructure...but no obviously its easiest to just punch down. I hate the media so much.
HArdly any effort put in to differentiate between an expensive 500w E-bike , chipped or not , and a 8kw Suron style EMX bike capable of 40mph .
Or the mini crime wave of street robbery and drug dealing that seems to be mainly yoofs on EMX bikes.
Or even ‘assisted’ for electrically assisted bikes (that you still have to pedal) and ‘e-bikes’ for surrons and such. ?
E-Bike for Surrons
EA-bike for a bike you pedal too......EA = Electrically Assisted...
As with the battle for the name 35-40 years ago between MTB and ATB, I think the ship sailed for having a name that actually makes sense.
If you aren’t happy about it complain to the BBC. It’s about as easy as posting on here and at least you’ll be ranting to the right person
If you really think the state of the BBC is down to not enough letters to the right person I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
I watched the whole programme. Another example of irresponsible, inaccurate and sensationalist journalism.
There are issues with throttle-controlled machines and derestricted e-bikes. Once again the problems with these two types of illegal vehicles used irresponsibly and criminally, were conflated with the responsible and legal use of legally compliant e-bikes. The programme made no consistent differentiation.
A throttle-controlled machine or a derestricted e-bike is an electric moped and the rider should be licensed and insured as such.
One of the issues the police seem to face is the widespread disruption caused by some members of the public and public condemnation, that when the police pursue people using throttle-controlled and derestricted ebikes, they are blamed for riders injuries and deaths.
What was their conclusion? there needs to be control, but there is control, but the actual issue is enforcement of illegal ebikes and crap infrastructure.
The use of casualty statistics were also concerning. It said 189 people were killed or seriously injured by a cycle in 2023. Sounds a lot but seriously injured just means hospitalisation so could be anything from laceration to a life changing injury. There were 12 fatalities in between 2019 to 2023. Nearly 2,000 peds were killed by cars, 27,000 seriously injured so people being hit and KSI is a tiny proportion but the panorama failed to contextualise and chose to sensationalise.
Doesn't really help that the talking head journalist was a telegraph writer. The same telegraph who have been part of the culture wars on bikes.
I didn't watch this, largely as it was Chiles and I'd rather stick red hot pins in my eyes than listen to a man whose Guardian column is entirely due to his own talents and not, say, being married to the editor.
It seemed pretty obvious it would be a hatchet job that missed both the potential of e-bikes for decarbonising transport, and that they don't need more rules if the ones we've already got were adequately enforced.
/rant
EA-bike for a bike you pedal too……EA = Electrically Assisted…
Doesnt cover the illegal variants of them though. For cases where it matters eg reporting crimes I would go for
e-bicycle
e-moped
e-motorbike.
With the latter two generally being prefixed with "illegal".
It said 189 people were killed or seriously injured by a cycle in 2023.
This is probably a Dft or Tfl statistic. It's important to remember they don't record the type of tranport that caused an incident, just what was involved. That should really read, 189 people killed or seriously injured in a collision involving a bicycle.
I still feel that the emphasis on speed rather ignores the fact that a reasonably fit individual on a pushbike can maintain 20mph easily, and with a bit of effort and a following wind/slight downhill can get 30-40mph. I once had to keep feathering my brakes following a car down hill into Lacock, at around 25-30mph. On my singlespeed. I overtook a Fiesta with a bunch of teens in at the bottom of my road, at 35mph according to my speedometer. In the big ring, downhill with a tailwind I got 45mph. Frankly, wearing regular bike gear it was more than a little scary!
Personally, I rather fancy the new Segway Xiber e-bike. With the double battery system it’s good for 110 miles, 0-20 in 2.7 seconds, it can, apparently, be overridden for off-road use to 30mph. 1300lmn headlight. Looks like a riot on some of the byways around here…
If anyone can still be bothered with this. Good article - includes link for Ofcom complainings :
l haven't watched, as it'll just wind me up, but I have noticed that the Bicycle Association have put in a formal complaint about the program to the BBC.
I still feel that the emphasis on speed rather ignores the fact that a reasonably fit individual on a pushbike can maintain 20mph easily,
Easily? I don't think a reasonably fit person on any old pushbike actually could.
And just because you can doesn't mean that you should.
https://www.cyclingelectric.com/in-depth/deconstructed-the-bbcs-panorama-e-bike-segment-and-its-many-flaws^ This is good, as always from Mark Sutton. Edit - link repeat, sorry
I thought the overall lack of clarity on the e-bike Vs illegal or unresistered e-motorbike point was worth a complaint anyway -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint/#/Complaint
when the police pursue people using throttle-controlled and derestricted ebikes, they are blamed for riders injuries and deaths
This. It seems nowadays the standard scenario is: parents buy theirs kid an illegal EMX bike, said kid rides it like a dick, gets chased by police because they're riding an unregistered, uninsured motorbike with a pillion and without a helmet. They then hit some kind of stationary/hard object and die, riots then ensue because the police were chasing a criminal (their job) and no-one questions all the steps that led to what is a very avoidable death.
It's stupid crap like it's not illegal to sell them as long as you promise to use them on private land that's caused the problem.
Just to make it all worse there's just not enough officers to clamp down on anything.
Good link from PJay up there. I think I'll use that and add some more about the programme's shitness (slightly better worded, of course) and send complaints to Ofcom and BBC
Easily? I don’t think a reasonably fit person on any old pushbike actually could.
Maybe for short distance but certainly not for long. If you look at any roadie club and look at their club ride requirements 20mph average generally puts you into the serious bunch and thats with drafting etc.
So no chance the average rider is coming close to that. If you are without serious training then get bleeping training and you will probably be on a pro team by next year.
Personally, I rather fancy the new Segway Xiber e-bike. With the double battery system it’s good for 110 miles, 0-20 in 2.7 seconds, it can, apparently, be overridden for off-road use to 30mph. 1300lmn headlight. Looks like a riot on some of the byways around here…
A bit of a tangent, but please bear in mind that a byway is still legally a road, and all the usual rules WRT speed limits, insurance, registration, VED, and safety equipment apply. '[F]or off-road use' should really read 'for use on private land'.
I watched the programme yesterday and agree that it was pretty poor. They had a section with Police officers on normal bikes stopping some riders and confiscating illegal ebikes and then trying to chase a rider and losing them. There was an opportunity to ask the rank-and-file coppers what they thought would be necessary to fix the issues but they did not. It seemed the conclusion they wanted viewers to draw was that riders of illegal bikes are pretty much immune from being caught.
The programme wrapped up with Chiles opining that the rules are unclear and nobody understands them. This is pretty much BS - they could have offered some suggestions on how to fix the issues but failed to do so. No mention of stopping the sale of illegal bikes/conversion kits or requiring food delivery companies to have some accountability for the riders actions.
One interesting bit was an interview with a food delivery rider who said that there are increasing numbers of people doing this work and it is becoming harder to earn decent money doing it.
There was no section for positive ideas to be pitched which was a missed opportunity. I think the likes of Just Eat, Deliveroo etc. are of a size where they could offer schemes where riders could lease e-mopeds from them including insurance etc. with GPS tracking. This could be complimented by short rentals - e.g. 4 hours - for less committed riders.
On the flat I used to maintain a steady 10-12mph*, according to whatever gps system I had available, but my average walking speed was 3mph. In the past I’ve kept up with roadies for a reasonable distance. But my point was about bikes being ridden in urban environments, and I’ve had kids on mountain bikes tearing past me when I’ve been sat outside a cafe, on the footpath, and I’d estimate they’re doing easily 10mph, if not more. Never got a nice, sturdy stick handy when you need one…
*When I used to ride down to Bath to pick up the K&A Canal, I’d do it in an hour, or thereabouts, and Bath is 13miles, the first 6miles is flatish, downhill to Batheaston then flatish into Bath.
Maybe for short distance but certainly not for long. If you look at any roadie club and look at their club ride requirements 20mph average generally puts you into the serious bunch and thats with drafting etc.
Yep average Joe Public pootling is not doing 20+ dressed in his daily wear 🙂
The issue I have is that unsurprisingly riding bikes at higher speeds requires more skillz.
The crazy stuff I have seen with older unskilled newbie bikers is the obsession of how fast they can go on an ebike - until they fall off on anything that requires riding skills.
That are usually acquired as you get fitter and faster through riding more.
Yep average Joe Public pootling is not doing 20+ dressed in his daily wear ?
According to the comments on the local FB pages, every cyclist is a contender for the World Track Champs / Tour de France at the speed they're going!
Schrödinger's Cyclist. Simultaneously going so slowly that they're holding up all the traffic for miles around but also hurtling recklessly at well above the speed limit!
There was no section for positive ideas to be pitched which was a missed opportunity. I think the likes of Just Eat, Deliveroo etc. are of a size where they could offer schemes where riders could lease e-mopeds from them including insurance etc. with GPS tracking. This could be complimented by short rentals – e.g. 4 hours – for less committed riders.
I’d be surprised if they want to haemorrhage more money 🙂
Just Eat Takeaway reported a €1.8 billion loss in 2023, an improvement on the €5.7 billion loss it reported the previous year.