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30 years?
Is it still worth calling Liverpool’s present effort a title ‘defence’?
Capitulation seems a more appropriate word.
https://twitter.com/footballdaily/status/1358489956256251914?s=21
Back to tonight... Chelski are absolutely awful here
Keane is not the Oracle he thinks he is. Wonderful player (when he wasn't deliberately hurting people), very average coach but thoroughly miserable little shit who takes any opportunity to stick the knife in.
A lot of the comments he makes could be levelled against him too when he was playing. He also seems to forget that his peak was 25 years ago yet he talks like he's still relevant today. He's his generation's Souness without the dodgy 'tache (and the successful playing abroad and successful management career)
🤦
I like Keane's commentary, especially since Micah Richards joined the team. Micah's positivity allows Kean to play the grump caricature he has developed to perfection. I think a lot of it is a lot more tongue in cheek than many seam to realise, delivered very dryly. Plus he doesn't hide his bias, while quite a few of the ex players pretend to be unbiased while clearly not being, which is much more frustrating for the viewer.
30 years?
Is it still worth calling Liverpool’s present effort a title ‘defence’?
Capitulation seems a more appropriate word.
Jeeez you're absolutely pathetic aren't you. I've not come across anyone so bloody bitter for many years when it comes to football.
Touched a nerve...
Not really, i'm well aware Liverpool are currently off-form. However they were top of the league at Xmas which doesn't really seem a capitulation, but since then yes, they've lost 'something'. It's the way he bleats on and on about it, as though all the Liverpool fans on here have been gloating and bragging whereas at the end of last season the LFC fans on here were gracious in their title win and never started hammering on about it.
I just don't really grasp why he's more concerned about Liverpools failures than anything else in Football. "this year is our year" he threw that one out time and time and time again... for years... but why ? Why not concentrate on his own team instead of the failure of another.
I'm perfectly OK with Liverpool not being top this year, we've won the title and the Champions league in recent times, which if you'd have offered me 5 seasons ago i'd have taken in a heartbeat. I'm happy to accept that with VVD, Matip etc out, Liverpool have been playing a strange formation and their influential midfielders are unable to play that role, which for me is more of a defining factor than the defenders being out, not having Hendo clearing up and Fab unable to play his role is as much a factor in Liverpools lack of form. But i'm still more than happy.
@weeksy are you even aware of the tribal element of the football supporter and the intense rivalries than can occur (even for the most stupid reasons)?
are you even aware of the tribal element of the football supporter and the intense rivalries than can occu
consdiering i grew up within a 4 minute walk of Anfield and have attended 200+ games at the ground, yeah i think you could safely say i'm aware. However, i've generally cared more about my own team than my rivals.
U OK HUN? X
Seriously: calm down love. I don't know about you but I've a load of scouse mates and we have a Whatsapp group thats half Mancs and half Scousers which is just a constant stream of wind ups and abuse. It's all part and parcel. You can't get your petticoats all ruffled and get all hurty feelings because a rival teams fans are pointing out, quite correctly, that you're presently shite! God knows I've been having it pointed out to me since the day Fergie left and the decline began.
Lets be honest here... Citeh are going to walk it again this season
Oh.... of the all the present things doing the rounds, the Mo Salah Subbuteo figure is the best. Sent to me by one of the scousers on our Whatsapp footy group 😀
Micah’s positivity allows Kean to play the grump caricature he has developed to perfection.
The Micah Richards/Roy Keane punditry partnership is one of the best things on telly. Richards is like the anti-Keanne, but its a brilliant double act
...it's all part of the wind-up by rival fans just to provoke a reaction. You're reacting hence they're laughing.
Additionally, remember that @binners is a very special case as he's the only recorded Man Yoo fan outside of Salford, Surrey and Singapore. He's a very rare creature indeed
Seriously: calm down love. I don’t know about you but I’ve a load of scouse mates and we have a Whatsapp group thats half Mancs and half Scousers which is just a constant stream of wind ups and abuse. It’s all part and parcel.
But we're not in your whatsapp group ? We're not the ones being feisty with you or giving you digs about your team ? Just because someone else is, does that make it right to be a complete plum to everyone else ?
"Football fan doesn't understand other football fans" shocker.
It's only footy FFS! It goes with the territory. No point getting your handbag out about it 😀
Anyway @binners, back to Keane.
I genuinely think he's modelled his media persona on Souness as in "I was the best player ever, I was the toughest MotherFunker out there. I still think I'm a tough guy so don't mess with me. I can still do a job in midfield etc etc." kind of way. They're like the negativity twins.
I'm a grumpy git and even I think they're overdoing it
I get it... i just grew up 🙂
Absolutely! Souness and Keane doing the competitive grumpiness would be a dire watch, but whoever decided to throw Micah Richards into the mix - who's like an over-excited puppy - is a bloody genius!
I get it… i just grew up
And theres your mistake, right there.
You're never meant to grow up, especially when it comes to watching footy 🙂
You can’t get your petticoats all ruffled and get all hurty feelings because a rival teams fans are pointing out, quite correctly, that you’re presently shite! God knows I’ve been having it pointed out to me since the day Fergie left and the decline began.
This 😆 - like I’ve said it’s actually quite nice to see Utd fans being able to gloat about Liverpool being ‘sh*t’ the last month or so after being the shadow for a good 3 or 4 years.
Problem is in the last couple of months they’ve got a bit over excited (won the January 2021 Premier League cup after all) and actually think they’ve got a better team 😂
I don't think many of us are under any illusions. Its not over-excitement, its shock! We can't quite believe we're up in second because everyone else seem to be even worse than us (apart from Citeh, obviously).
Chelski are dire (they were lucky to get away with it at Barnsly last night), Arsenal are awful, Maureen has forgotten how to defend, Liverpool are a shadow of last year and thats left us, like a turtle on a fencepost
And there’s the Ramsbottom defence from binners then. I dunno, there’s a level of toxicity across football fandom this season - probably connected to people not being able to get out much. Maybe even for the pub-going Stella drinking Sky Sports/BT Sport subscribing armchair fan, there’s more of a release in somehow sharing the lived experience of match-going fans. And they’re not getting that this season, more-so than last, especially as the reintroduction of fans stuttered so much. Consider the Everton Spurs cup tie. In a full Goodison Park, that would have possibly eclipsed the 4-4 match against Liverpool. It will have been (mostly) forgotten by the time the QFs are played. Consider Salah’s second goal against Utd. last season - in an empty stadium.
The online racial abuse of footballers is one of the results of this toxicity and for many people with a passing interest in football, this turns them off. The idea of “voiding a season” garners more sympathy from the non-footballing supporting public and the “but it’s a societal problem, not just football...” defence falls on more deaf ears than before. I’ve noticed rising levels of toxicity in rugby social media, and during the NFL season which I also follow closely. So it’s not just football. However, football, getting the blanket coverage it does gets most of the attention. And more people will just say, “meh, football = racism problem.” It’s depressing.
We could probably all do with dialling it down a bit more. Personally, I’ve dialled it down by disengaging more and more with sport in general as I feel any cross border sport is just a bit wreckless in the current climate. FFS, UCL ties still going ahead in third countries. International friendlies still scheduled for the end of March. Seems like madness to me.
FFS, UCL ties still going ahead in third countries. International friendlies still scheduled for the end of March. Seems like madness to me
I just can't believe that they're intent on going ahead with internationals at the moment, especially pointless friendlies.
Utter and complete insanity! Let's all host our own super-spreader events, eh?
The racism that seem so prevalent at the moment is just utterly depressing. The knuckle-draggers seem intent on dragging us back to the 1970's
Moving on......Jose v Gareth might be fun!
Liverpool Leicester is not a bad watch, slightly ruined by Steve Mcmanaman’s high pitched whimpering.
Steve Mcmanaman’s high pitched whimpering.
I'm picturing him in the foetal position around now.
those wheels have come off again.... and again
oh and again!
running out of steam after 70 mins
Liverpool shipped three goals between the 73rd and 83rd minutes against Manchester City, and three today between the 78th and 85th.
What does that mean? I don't know but it's interesting isn't it?
More than anything I'm just really pleased for binners
Cheers. I bet on Leicester too
The happiest person I know, who’s presently having a field day in our footy WhatsApp group, is an Everton fan. He’s loving this even more than I am 😃
Everton are 3 points behind you now having played 3 games less. The Derby next weekend should be an absolute humdinger. I know who I’ll be putting my money on, on present form
Burnley are absolutely battering Palace here. They’re absolutely all over the shop at the back.
We were just discussing whether we’ve ever seen Benteke score?
I don’t think I ever have
A pretty comprehensive demolition. What’s the point of playing Maureens ‘style’ of football when you’re not actually very good at defending?
The titles Citeh’s now, it’s just a case of how many points clear they go
I just need Villa to win for my acca to come in at 34/1
Normal service has been resumed. One down inside 90 seconds, away to a team in the bottom half of the table, and having to come back. Seems like the script for the whole season
And the last game on my acca let me down yesterday. Standard. 🙄
Offside and yet another one where the attacker hangs back in order to initiate contact. Sick of it.
Well, that was absolutely dire!
Agree about the ‘penalty’. There was virtually no contact and he was a mile offside anyway.
I just can’t see why they’re being given. It was never a penalty, but the refs seem to be just giving anything then relying on VAR to overrule the decision
It seems to have become a pretty standard tactic for an attacker being chased by a defender in the box to hang back just a touch so there's a tangle of legs and more often than not it's given as a penalty. Either that or when the defender is in front of you, push the ball past them and make a run where you brush against them/trail a leg out and fall over.
It's rubbish, and yes Liverpool players are just as guilty of it - but why wouldn't you really when it's so effective?
Won the League in January, #OleOut in February.
Got to love Utd fans 😂
The media doesn't help - couple of this kind of daft story around.
Decent first half for Liverpool but we’ve said that before recently!
Binners - no need to comment on this thread until Thursday night 😉😂
Dearie me, Leipzig are defending like.........Liverpool?! Couple of shockers there.
Yeh they’ve not looked great considering the build up they got before the match.
Nice to be on the other end of some mistakes which lead to goals 😆
Really impressed with Curtis over the last couple of months - looks so comfortable on the ball with some really good passes, especially in a match like this.
Clean sheet and 2 away goals - decent result.
Yes, great result considering the recent form. I like Jones too - think he’ll become the player Liverpool thought they were getting when they signed Keita? He’s had loads of injuries, granted, but never looked good enough to be an automatic pick.
Kylian Mbappé is some player. Reading should make an enquiry - might be able to afford him if they sold...Reading. The town.
What's happened to Keira? I'd completely forgotten about him. Oxlade Chamberlain has looked off the pace for a while, I know he's not played much but Shaqiri is outplaying him am has similarly limited playing time.
Ox is similar to Keita - always injured. Shame as he looked good a couple of seasons ago then got a really bad knee injury.
That 3rd Mbappe goal is a cracker
Keita should be back in the next week. Great performance against a very hard and high pressing side. But as we all know, a high pressing opponent is exactly how Liverpool and particularly Klopps Liverpool like it, space to run into for Salah and Mane, perfect. Sure it's great when Trent and Robo can get the space to fire down the wing, but that's not seeming effective sometimes, but giving Mane and Salah space, well, it's not wise is it.
I've not seen the PSG game yet, but i'll be watching it about 8am on BT sport.
Kylian Mbappé is some player. Reading should make an enquiry – might be able to afford him if they sold…Reading. The town.
TBH, I'd throw in Bracknell with it, should raise another £50
It does amaze me when teams push up and attack against Liverpool, we're a counter attacking team and have been well and truly found out by teams who sit back and hit us on the counter(especially when we don't have the get out of jail card of Van Dijk and Gomez's pace). Will be difficult to replace Wijnaldum, though if Barca keep at it he may change his mind about leaving.
The collapse continues. I rather enjoyed that, especially as I had bets on an Everton win with Sigurdson to score 😃
Liverpool were completely toothless, while they bemoan there defensive injuries their problems are in attack, their midfield and front three should be still be creating many more chances that is still 6+ players that are meant to be among the best. But the only idea they can come up with is to throw themselves at the floor in the penalty box, Mane and Salah should both have been carded for diving today.
The penalty at the other end though was baffling.
The diving from Salah and Mane, always bad, was on another level tonight. They should both have been carded for it. It’s embarrassing to watch.
That seemed to be the only ‘attacking’ threat they offered. Trying to buy penalties, hurling themselves at the floor when anyone came near them. Good to see a ref who was having none of it, but he should have booked them both for those antics.
The penalty was soft, but I’d like to think the ref thought ‘well you lot have been going down in the box like you’ve been shot for the whole match, so....”
He didn’t dive, just got tangled up, but it was never a penalty
Everton were 6-1 to win that - wish I'd stuck more than £20 on it!
They were 7/1 with some bookies. Which seems mental given present form.
I had that and Sigurdson to score at 12/1 😃
Write of the top four and focus on the Champions League? I guess teams attack them more in that although maybe Athletico showed the way last season which everyone else has cottoned on to?
Not every team can play a defensive game though. That was the thing with RB Leipzig, they play a high pressing attacking game every week, they can't just suddenly switch all their patterns of play and defend deep and hope to get a counter attacking goal, it would probably work out even worse if they did. But they are going to have to beat teams with far higher quality attacking players than Leipzig to win the CL. IMO top 4 is their only chance of being in the CL next season
Yeah, I don’t think you’re wrong. You’d be daft to bet on them beating PSG or Bayern over two legs, esp without the crowd and the three first choice centre halves out.
while they bemoan there defensive injuries their problems are in attack, their midfield and front three should be still be creating many more chances that is still 6+ players that are meant to be among the best.
Quite clearly 1. Don’t know about tactics Liverpool play and/or 2. Have never watched them much the past 3/4 seasons.
The injuries to the centre backs has meant the whole spine of the team has gone which in turn has meant the whole of the attacking play the team operates has gone with it.
With Henderson and Fabinho in the midfield, generally speaking, the ball would be won higher up the pitch which meant Firmino in particular could link play up. Added to that the left and right backs don’t know whether to stick or twist going forward as they aren’t confident in the two centre backs it’s created the perfect storm.
Yes Liverpool should have more depth in the squad but I’ve said it before, no chance do teams other than oil billionaires have the depth to cover 4 world class players and especially not all at a similar time and then expect said ‘subs’ to work in tandem.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that West Ham are safe from relegation.
Assuming the Man U get second, I wonder if Leicester and West Ham can get 3rd and 4th? Chelsea should push them hard with their squad? Everton possibly too.
Yeah, I was thinking that as well earlier in the day, before the earlier game I though villa might be in with a shout as well, but with the Leicester win and Grealish being out for a month I expect them to start slipping back down the table now even with their games in hand. Probably only city looking guaranteed to be in the top four, united also look more than capable of going on a losing run.
Newcastle are giving us a game here
The main thing to take from this match is that Nicky Butt nowadays looks even more terrifying than he used too. And he always looked pretty ****ing scary
You wouldn’t be too surprised in a few years to see him turn up in a Netflix documentary about serial killers
Watching Arsenal let City have a leisurely kickabout for 90 minutes before was very generous of them. City knew from the off that Arsenal were never going to score so having scored in the second minute, they effectively gave themselves the night off. I don’t think Arsenal put a single tackle in for the whole game. Just backed off and watched city knock it about between themselves. Did Aubamayang even touch the ball?
The worst Arsenal side I’ve ever watched, by a country mile. Absolutely awful. I can’t believe they’re in 10th. They look like relegation fodder.
I’d love to hear what all the ‘Wenger out’ mob make of this shitshow
Can't help but think west Ham are benefiting massively from not having any fans in the stadium. As much as the club's owners compete with Mike Ashley for the crown of biggest clown in football, the West Ham fans are in general such a miserable and entitled lot that they'd have been sure to drag the team and the manager down, especially after the first two losses of the season.
If West Ham keep this up It's gong to be weird when they finally let fans in the stadium and Moyes gets treated to a standing ovation and his name gets chanted by the erstwhile naysayers. Saving them from relegation twice and, as looks possible, getting them into Europe will be quite an achievement. His transfer dealings have been pretty immaculate and he's probably added millions to the value of the squad, more then the owners deserve really.
If you want the 'West Ham way' you'd best pop up the M1 to Leeds. In the meantime it looks like irons fans will just have to put up with the Moyes method.
In the meantime it looks like irons fans will just have to put up with the Moyes method.
As a West Ham fan I'm very happy with the way Moyes is managing the club, and thought he was unfortunate to not be offered a contract extension last time round. I think most fans want to see a) some decent attacking football and b) players putting a shift in. Which is what we're getting.
I don't know a football fan that doesn't want to see 'decent attacking football', it's just some realise that their club doesn't have the spending power to be successful playing that way.
If Leeds get relegated next year playing the same style of footy they are playing this year, it won't be long before a bunch of fans (& the media) clamour for a 'new approach'.
Unless you are one of the top 6 (or Leicester... though realistically they aren't far off from taking Arsenals place in the establishment), you generally can't have consistent results & decent attacking football. Even as a top 6 club it feels like it's no longer a guarantee. Every Mourinho team in the last 10 years being case in point.
Anyway Leicester, when can we have Johnny Evans back?
If Leeds get relegated next year playing the same style of footy they are playing this year, it won’t be long before a bunch of fans (& the media) clamour for a ‘new approach’.
We get a bunch of fans demanding that every time we lose already. Just before Sam Allardyce took over WBA there were some saying we should ditch Bielsa and get him so we had an experienced Premiership manager who could shore up our defence and avoid our getting relegated.
If Leeds get relegated next year playing the same style of footy they are playing this year, it won’t be long before a bunch of fans (& the media) clamour for a ‘new approach’.
I think you're right - people have short memories and will forget just how long Leeds spent out of the top division. Though I don't think there's any incompatibility between attacking football and decent defending. A big part of West Ham's good form has been Rice and Soucek's defensive cover, and then bringing the ball forward.
We get a bunch of fans demanding that every time we lose already. Just before Sam Allardyce took over WBA there were some saying we should ditch Bielsa and get him so we had an experienced Premiership manager who could shore up our defence and avoid our getting relegated.
Very true, there are always some, mostly stirred up by the media IME. Same with sacking Ole dat 3 or 4 times since he took over as our permanent manager, when almost every fan I know was fully behind having him in for the long term. Progress is all the majority want to see, even if it's slow or frustrating at times.
I think you’re right – people have short memories and will forget just how long Leeds spent out of the top division. Though I don’t think there’s any incompatibility between attacking football and decent defending. A big part of West Ham’s good form has been Rice and Soucek’s defensive cover, and then bringing the ball forward.
Yep, I don't think they are incompatible, but it is quite unusual when building a team on a budget.
The likes of Soucek who was what, £15m odd, and bags goals as a defensive midfielder? He'd cost you £50m at the end of the season.
Like Liverpool, Leeds have missed two key defensive players (Koch & Llorente who were both signed after our promotion) for most of this season, and we have particularly missed the poise and calmness that Ben White provided in central defence last season. Essentially, 90% of the Leeds squad is the same as for the last couple of seasons in the Championship. The club, for the first time in a couple of decades, is run by someone who isn't some sort of shady spiv, and has a long-term plan for the club rather than a short-term plan for his bank balance. San Fransisco 49ers have just increased their investment to 35% of the club which should enable us to invest in more experienced (and hopefully better) players which should ensure safety for the next few seasons in the Premiership and hopefully a challenge for Europa league places or a cup win.
These Atletico players really ought to wear more padding in case they get injured falling over - all the time. Still they have the master of the dark arts as a manager.
The Leeds Southampton game tonight was an absolute belter. Say what you like about Leeds and but it’s never dull
Unless you’re from S’ampton, in which case it was a massive load of balls. And a bit worrying frankly.
Ooooft, didn’t see that Chelsea performance/win coming.
Good game, no atmosphere.
Say what you like about Leeds - we don’t care MOT ALAW 😻
Good article here from a City fan on their treatment in the media:
(I say good, it's miles too long, but he writes well)
Interesting perspective - he's clearly right on the media's attitude to City (IMHO), but he's feeling it on a perversely deep level. It sounds like he could watch prime KDB absolutely running the show for 90 mins, but it would all turn to ashes because a football sage like Paul Scholes makes a back-handed remark on Sky sports.
Another city win, will Ole manage to end their run on Sunday?
Doubt it - reckon he'll set up cautious again and try and get another 0-0. Not necessarily a bad policy v the so called big 6 if they beat everyone else, which they've in the main been doing.
I just hope it’s not as awful as the Chelski game on Sunday. That was the same as the last Derby, where it seemed like everyone had agreed to have a tedious 90 minute kickabout and take a point
Cavani is back, so we may have a bit more urgency up front. Anything but Tony Marshall, who looks completely disinterested and couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo this season