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I appear to have been wrong. The Greek people have stood up to the bullying and fearmongering by narrowly voting No in the referendum. Well done!
Have they? Are the results in?
Polls just closed. Early exit polls so far 51/49%.
Same pollsters that did the UK General election?
Probably not. Though I wouldn't rule out the referendum being 'adjusted' slightly to Nai...
Oxymoron.... Only one exit poll result so far too soon to call
LOL relying on a poll...which gives 49/51...
Are you for real?
That's an average of six exit polls, all of which have No in a narrow lead. Unless there is a lot of ballot box stuffing in the next couple of hours I'm considering it a result
I appear to have been wrong. The Greek people have stood up to the bullying and fearmongering by narrowly voting No in the referendum. Well done!
Mortgage payment is due next week. Should we have a vote on it? 50% of our income seems a bit harsh, ill offer them a fiver and some acorns, as of tomorrow we're declaring acorns to have parity with £ so it should be OK.
Its unfortunate that squirrels don't have more say in these things.
Out of interest. Where are you getting these 'exit polls' from? The BBC website says that none have been carried out. There have been some standard opinion polls whose results have just been released.
bbc saying 11% of votes counted, sitting at 60% no, 40% yes.
Guess that's as close to an exit poll as you'll get.
plenty room for that to change though.
Mortgage payment is due next week. Should we have a vote on it? 50% of our income seems a bit harsh, ill offer them a fiver and some acorns, as of tomorrow we're declaring acorns to have parity with £ so it should be OK.
Depends. Were you forced to take out the mortgage even though you couldn't afford it, just so the builder who built the estate could brag to their mates about how successful they are because every single one of their houses was bought?
slight movement towards no, 60.5% no, 39.5% yes now 20% votes in.
good news for those selling euro stocks short 😉
Even Angela Merkel, it is reported, has privately told MPs that, as far as she is concerned, Alexis Tsipras has simply driven his country into the wall - and that's something you hear quite a bit from politicians here. They say this Greek government has simply destroyed all trust and you wonder, under those circumstances, how negotiations can ever start again.
Quite. It is going to be interesting to see what power Greece thinks it has over the rest of the Eurozone now.
Even Angela Merkel, it is reported, has privately told MPs that, as far as she is concerned........blah blah blah
"Even" Angela Merkel ?
That'll be the Angela Merkel who always previously supported Alexis Tsipras and Syriza no doubt !
😆
I don't think that she did always support Tsipras, she's put her agitprop days behind her.
Anybody else think what happens with greece now will have a big bearing on how our EU referendum will go?
Far as i can see over recent years the EU is hardly covering itself in glory, from makign the irish go back and vote on lisbon, to their dubious role at the beginning of the ukraine debacle, to TTIP. I think people are watching very closely what happens to greece and it will affect how the vote goes in this country.
The out camp must be creaming their pants at recent events.
Will also be interesting if Greece are forced to go back to the Drachma/take on another currency aswell, I'd guess that'd have implications on a 2nd scottish ref aswell.
Ya, EU ZM bureaucrats exercising their power on a nation ...
Ya, give them more power then one day they will strike.
Who the hell do those non-elected ZMs think they are by establishing themselves as "King of the kings". They should not exist at all.
The ZMs have completely missed the point by making their own existence as the end rather than the means to harmonise EU. A bit like administrators forgetting their place of supporting role by hyping up their own importance. Know your place! You are ZM bureaucrats! You role is to support and Not impede!
Hardly surprising coz that's what ZMs do in all large public organisations.
😡
Using the term ZM devalues your arguments somewhat.
what's ZM?
Zombie Maggot apparently.
ohnohesback - Member
Using the term ZM devalues your arguments somewhat.
😆 Only if you take my arguments at face value.
seosamh77 - Memberwhat's ZM?
Where have you been? 😯
ZMs = zombie maggots.
Yes, I think you're right, seosamh77 - even if you don't think Tsipras played a blinder, it is very very clear that the troika plan for Greece is not based on sound economics, and that that the EU have been pulling a bunch of very nasty tricks to try to force a YES vote - tricks which the Greek people, God bless them, have seen straight through.
So now people, like me, who would have considered themselves automatic pro-EU voters a year ago, have seen that the EU is basically anti-democratic and unprincipled, with the president of the EU parliament actively campaigning to overthrow an elected EU government. I'm afraid that toothpaste won't go back into the tube.
a 3 day wedding! only just coming round to normality/soberness! 😆chewkw - Member
Where have you been?
How long until the usual EU ruse of another referendum is employed?
DrJ
Maybe the Greeks should take some responsibility for their recent overspending. They have been lent money by banks .... but it wasn't compulsory to spend it all ...
You know when your credit card bill comes in at the end on the month ....
what's ZM?
First mistake - reading Chewwy's post.
Second mistake - believing it might contain something interesting.
Chewwy uses about 3 different templates for all his posts which he likes to rework so that the words are not always in the same order. Presumably he erroneously believes that rearranging the words in different order will make his posts appear slightly less tedious.
Maybe the Greeks should take some responsibility for their recent overspending.
Maybe the French and German banks who made the cockup and as a result demanded that taxpayers bail them out should take some responsibility for their incompetence.
My understanding is that to be a lender you require two things - firstly you need to make a risk assessment, and secondly you need to have some money to lend. Doing one without the other is pointless.
If bankers can't do their job properly then they should accept the consequences, not expect others to step in and bail them out.
Ernie,
The German banks didn't make a cock up , they rallied to sure up the Euro. TBH what is happening was always going to happen.
But the Greeks are responsible for their own destiny .... not someone else ...
Perhaps living in Koln,you have a different perspective,Colin.
The German banks didn't make a cock up ................ TBH what is happening was always going to happen.
I'm assuming that the obvious contradiction there escapes you.
What with 92%of the bailout money going to banks it seems to me the old adage
"Privatise profit,Nationalise debt " rings true
You know when your credit card bill comes in at the end on the month ....
And you see they've raised your credit limit...
Very handy...
"Privatise profit,Nationalise debt"
And with that mantra firmly established I think we can all agree that even a trained monkey could run a bank successfully.
The German banks didn't make a cock up , they rallied to sure up the Euro
You might just need to check up on that one
. TBH what is happening was always going to happen.
Pretty true - the vote is a farce under the pretence of democracy. It will make zero difference to the outcome. How can it? A vote on an offer that doesn't exist and if it did cannot work. The bizarre fantasy land of the € zone.
But the Greeks are responsible for their own destiny .... not someone else ...
Yes in terms of the future, but no in terms of why we have got to this awful spot.
the vote is a farce under the pretence of democracy. It will make zero difference to the outcome. How can it?
That point of view is completely in line with that of the Greek Communist Party THM 🙂
I agree btw.
ernie_lynch - Memberwhat's ZM?First mistake - reading Chewwy's post.
Second mistake - believing it might contain something interesting.
Chewwy uses about 3 different templates for all his posts which he likes to rework so that the words are not always in the same order. Presumably he erroneously believes that rearranging the words in different order will make his posts appear slightly less tedious.
Ernie is in my fan club. 😆
It might look like a template because no matter how you look the arguments the fact is you cannot change the ZMs. They are as they are. Fact! 😆
the vote is a farce under the pretence of democracy. It will make zero difference to the outcome. How can it?
It can, because first of all the EU's plan to depose Tsipras and install the imbecile mayor of Athens will have to be put on ice, perhaps indefinitely. The EU is no respecter of democracy, but they try not to be too blatant. Secondly, in the last week the schism between the IMF and the EU has become more evident, and it will be harder to sweep the issue of debt relief under the rug. Thirdly, the population of Greece has gven an endorsement to Syriza that is bigger than any vote these EU dwarves have themselves received - if they react in a bitter and vengeful way they are aware that the voters in other countries will start to wonder about what Europe really means.
In short - your economic text books, with their unrealistic assumptions - always a poor predictor of reality - go out of the window at times like this.
Greece has gven an endorsement to Syriza that is bigger than any vote these EU dwarves have themselves received - if they react in a bitter and vengeful way they are aware that the voters in other countries will start to wonder about what Europe really means.
It is precisely the political consequences of victory/success for the anti-austerity forces which has motivated the unelected and antidemocratic European institutions all along, not economic reality.
Committed to the Euro and the EU as they are Syriza will simply use the no vote result as a lever to negotiate a "different" agreement but one which is still fundamentally to the detriment of the Greek people.
Tsipras is far too much a supporter of the Euro and the EU to defeat or even seriously challenge the antidemocratic nature of the EU and its institutions.
Well doc, I'm afraid the outcome is clear and well known to all. The only question is timing. So sorry, the referendum was a smart (?) bit of politics to allow Tsipras to play the blame game. But beyond that nothing, ??????.
If it gives Greeks a temporary lift that so be it, but the good feeling will soon evaporate. The messy end game to the flawed project is now about to be played out.
It;s a shame that the democratically elected government didn't have the balls to make a decision of behalf of the people ...
Now they can blame everyone else ....
If it gives Greeks a temporary lift that so be it, but the good feeling will soon evaporate. The messy end game to the flawed project is now about to be played out.
The most disturbing thing about this is the assumption that the wishes and interests of normal people are irrelevant. Whatever the end result and consequences, it's pretty clear that, for once, the people have stood up to the corrupt and self-interested politicians, bankers, financiers and industrialists who have corruptly and flagrantly defrauded an entire nation. Hopefully a sensible solution will now be found. However if the greeks are thrown to the dogs, I predict worse trouble ahead once Spain, Portugal and Italy go the same way. Whatever happens though the Greeks can be proud of themselves tonight I think.
Where do you think the money for the Greeks is going to come from. The tooth fairy?
If they have to they'll create their own money and drop out of the euro. Extreme short term pain for potentially long term recovery. The existing solution of permanent depression and ever increasing debt to paper over the cracks of a failed economic experiment is not a solution.
DrJMaybe the Greeks should take some responsibility for their recent overspending. They have been lent money by banks .... but it wasn't compulsory to spend it all ...
You know when your credit card bill comes in at the end on the month ....
Umm ... that's just what they are doing - trying to devise a plan that sees them able to pay back the loans. The household finance analogy doesn't work, as THM has pointed out, because even when you cut spending on bike bits to pay your Visa, your salary still rolls in the same. A country's income depends also on the money going round and round, so it's like if you spend less on bike bits, your salary goes down and you can't afford the Visa bill any more.