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The current company I work for do not pay overtime (or offer TOIL) for attending training or conferences. It is seen that the training/conference is a benefit to the individual therefore no extra recompense is required.
So if the training, and/or travel, runs over 7.5 hours a day I don't get that time back as TOIL or overtime. I also wouldn't get the overnight allowance payment that you otherwise receive when away doing 'proper work'.
Apparently me having an issue with this is "surprising".
I recently attended a 1.5 day, internal training course at another of the company's offices. The office is in a town outside Dublin and I'm based in an office in Edinburgh. I spent about a day of my own time travelling, plus 2 overnight stays away from home. I'll get my monetary expenses back but no recognition of anything else.
Where my wife works the extra time is accounted for and can be taken back as TOIL.
I'd like to live in your world if possible.
There was an EU working time decision recently to do with travel time and working hours. Not sure if it will affect training, but our corner of the civil service has just updated its travel time and overnight accommodation guidance as a result.
I'd like to live in your world if possible.
Fairmilehead?
That seems 'black and white' - aimed at some extra traveling at start and end of day, rather than lots of overnight stays.
I presume you have had conversation?
We get TOIL not matter what the 'company business' is - there is not a 'black and white', we record hours worked, and my boss tells me to go home or take a day off now and again if I have worked lots. Small charities are ace that way. 😀
The only time I get TOIL is if I travel on a weekend day. I get those days back.
If I'm travelling outside 9-5 on a working day then it's just considered part of the "sometimes you may be required to do a bit extra" clause in my contract.
How often are you actually going on these courses? If it's very regular then I'd say it's an issue. If its a couple of times a year I wouldn't have a problem with it.
It depends. If you've the sort of relationship with your employer that there's a bit of give-and-take then just accept that this will happen occasionally. If they're taking the mick elsewhere and are inflexible about your requests for the odd but of time off then just say "no thanks". They must be getting some benefit from your training or they wouldn't send you.
TBH in the cushiest if cushy jobs I've ever had I used to get a maximum of £15 a night for drinks and such, but I never got paid more than my usual salary and expenses.
Overall, I think my dissatisfaction is an indication that I should look to move on elsewhere.
I came from a different industry sector into this one and I think it's time to go back...
TBH in the cushiest if cushy jobs I've ever had I used to get a maximum of £15 a night for drinks and such, but I never got paid more than my usual salary and expenses
The overnight allowance (on top of expenses) is about £15 but as it's 'training' I can't claim it.
I'm not really bothered about extra salary, just the time back would be nice.
They tie TOIL and overtime up as the same thing. You can cash in your TOIL and get the time paid. I think having them separate is much more sensible
Are you claiming back the travel expenses and travel time as its not your normal place of work?
If they are paying you to attend, then its work so tgey should be paying the travel expenses i think.
If they arent paying at all, its not work, and i wouldnt be going.
I'd certainly be unhappy unless there was some flexibility the other way round too. My UK jobs have always accounted fully for time, which was a bit over-egging things - travelling to Australia and back accrued about 2 weeks of TOIL, even a day trip to london gave us a free day off.
I was initially a bit surprised that this didn't seem to be the case when I worked abroad, but the hours were flexible enough (and expenses were quite generous) that I think I did ok out of it overall!
+1 NZCol
+1 NZCol
i don't get TOIL - in fact i had to google it, although i should probably have been able to guess!
perhaps i've been unlucky but i've never been in a job where that's an option and i'm quite surprised that people expect it as a matter of course. maybe i should change jobs...
I bloody hate it when employers take the attitude that training over and above the mandatory absolute minimum is 'for your benefit' and therefore unpaid. Yeah, like it's just what I like to do in my spare time, my children, MTBing, friends and family are all less important to me than some slightly professionally interesting but mostly designed to make me better at 'delivering the business to the customers' course somewhere back of beyond. Tossers.
Glad I got that off my chest!
v8ninety +1
I miss the days of working for the civil service where I'd get to fly business class and claim double time for flying on a Sunday.
About the only thing I do miss.
Pay for most of training and conferences out of pocket. No time back even if weekend or evenings - not unusual to have 11 days at conferences.
So seems not that bad a deal youve got!
just say thanks but no thanks to the training then; if they want you to go they have to ensure you don't end out of pocket
I run a personal time flexibility scheme. Sometimes, I work early an finish late, sometimes I'll get a short day. I don't count anything up, just do what feels fair and don't take the piss. I did manage a cheeky ride in the pissing rain today though 😀
UPDATE: Went for an interview elsewhere this week 😀
we get TOIL for weekends away when training but that is all....
how ever i travel alot with work - and get an out of office rate + coefficient dependant on the country and conditions there....
it was recently mooted this would stop , i asked how i would be able to do my job from aberdeen - que a very puzzled look.
they didnt get it.
your doing the right thing - ive always maintained i would vote with my feet if they follow through with above.
Whenever I've been out of town for training courses
a) the company pays for the course
b) the company pays for the travel
c) the company pays for the accommodation and food
d) I pay for my own beer
e) I do not get the time spent away back as TOIL unless I travel at weekends. Which never happens.
f) I do not have to take the time away out of my holiday allowance - it's work, not holiday.
g) if it's abroad I get one day off per whole day spent doing the actual travelling, but Leeds to Dublin only takes an hour so that doesn't count
Anything else is negotiable
[i]It depends. If you've the sort of relationship with your employer that there's a bit of give-and-take then just accept that this will happen occasionally. If they're taking the mick elsewhere and are inflexible about your requests for the odd but of time off then just say "no thanks". They must be getting some benefit from your training or they wouldn't send you. [/i]
This.