[Closed] Overtaking.

[i]was that for my benefit?[/i]

Just having a laugh Phil. None intended.
😀

thegreatape - exactly as I see it, but Molgrips still see's it as a direct attack upon him & that you have been discourteous...but if the roles were reversed apparently it is ok.

None taken. It made me laugh.

(For the record I own a van, nothing to do with my job. Happy to play to the stereotype though)

but if the roles were reversed apparently it is ok.

No

[i]Let's be honest here - the real reason people queue jump is because they can, and they don't give a shit about anyone else. Isn't it?[/i]

[img] [/img]

At last, we have a winner, ladies and Gerbils. Obviously not a universal truth, but close enough.

Can we all go home now ?

Queue jump????
I thought we'd ascertained that if it looks like a line of cars meekly following a lorry, that it is a line of cars. If said cars pass up what appears to you, way back where, a plausible passing place, then have you "stolen" a turn, or did all of the vehicles ahead forfeit that turn?

the real reason people queue jump is because they can, and they don't give a shit about anyone else. Isn't it?

Yup.

* Goes home *

Can we all go home now ?

Can I wait till rush hour ? There'll be more people to overtake (in one maneuver)

[i]Can I wait till rush hour ? There'll be more people to overtake (in one maneuver)[/i]

😆

Maybe 80% of people in my experience will be wanting to pass a 40mph car or lorry.

I want to be an astronaut, I want to have a six pack, I want to wear Megan Fox as a hat etc. Doesn't mean any of it is going to happen.

Maybe I've not waited long enough in the the queue to see everyone realise their dreams of performing an overtake and all this happens behind me? Maybe everyone but me is clairvoyant and they all know I want to overtake and they let me go first and that's why everyone sits in the queue when a mile long straight opens up before them.

If that's the case then let me be the first to thank all the courteous clairvoyant drivers out there.

Come to think of it some drivers being able to divine the future would make a lot of sense. Middle lane drivers aren't lazy muppets, instead they can actually see that in the future some sort of natural disaster is gong to obliterate the inside lane, so they avoid it at all costs

This thread

[img] [/img]

Phil.w - watch out for Mols

[img] [/img]

...& Mr Speedy
[img] [/img]

[i]This thread[/i]

Is that a Marathon snake ?

[i]then have you "stolen" a turn, or did all of the vehicles ahead forfeit that turn?[/i]

Oh, brilliant. We're taking turns now. Unless you've been sent to Jail.
In which case you do not pass go or the vehicle waaay up there in front.
And you do not collect £200.

Anyway, none of this would be possible, without the god particle.

[img] [/img]

May I ask then...

You are behind the lorry, wishing to overtake when a suitable opportunity for [i]you[/i] to do so presents itself.

You reach a stretch of road that you deem unsuitable for you to pass the lorry, so you don't (which is obviously sensible driving).

Your objection seems to be that 'speedy man' passes you at this point, scuppering your chances of an overtake when a longer straight occurs in the future because he is now in front of you.

What I'm wondering is, at the point in the scenario outlined above, what are you doing that makes it clear to 'speedy man' that you are intending to overtake the lorry at some point in the future [i](However I clearly AM planning to overtake)[/i] that he ignores?

Given that you have opted not to overtake at this point, I assume you aren't indicating to do so. So what are you doing that shows you are 'clearly planning to overtake' further on despite having no intention of doing so there?

I should have put inverted comma's... "turn"

Mols ponders the meaning of life, fairness & courtesy whilst simultaneously determining...is there enough road to safely overtake?
[img] [/img]

Perhaps this is the problem
[img] [/img]

What, the driver sitting in the passenger seat reading a text instead of driving?

What I'm wondering is, at the point in the scenario outlined above, what are you doing that makes it clear to 'speedy man' that you are intending to overtake the lorry at some point in the future

In the situation where I am first in line behind the lorry, I am doing the usual things like looking down the road etc.

In the situation where I am second, then I am not doing anything. Unless the car in front is very obviously not trying to overtake, and is 20m or mor eback at all times.

People queue jump regardless of who's obviously looking to overtake.

Some no doubt do. Others simply see cars ahead that show no signs of wishing to overtake, declining opportunities to do so, and decide, perfectly reasonably, that they will. This is not rude or discourteous, but does seem to be what you're objecting to.

I.N.R.A.T.S.
However, when i learnt to drive and took my test i learnt all about "mirror, signal, manoeuvre" and how it applies to almost any situation while driving. By a process of elimination, if your not indicating so far as im concerned your not about to carry out the manoeuvre. There is also a clear element of common sense, road sense and caution that should also be shown but if im behind a couple of slow moving vehicles i will try to read where he is positioned on the road and give the car in front of me the opportunity to over take, then ill overtake them both if there is space to do so. If someone overtakes me and pulls in front of me in the queue then so what. I'd have looked in my mirrors if i was contemplating the overtake anyway so i would have known they were there. I might utter something under my breath but hey ho. Although if you cant clear the whole queue then suck it up buttercup, you should really be waiting.

So not doing anything tells the cars behind that you would actually like to overtake, that you can't right now, but may wish to do so later & that they should wait until you've decided you can, at some point in the future, conclude an overtake..although not necessarily on that particular journey.
Great, glad we cleared that up, seems really obvious now you've explained it. All vehicles following another vehicle may want to overtake in future, but not right now, unless they're well back from the vehicle ahead, which either indicate their unwillingness to overtake or that they have dropped back from a large vehicle to improve line of sight in anticipation of an overtake.
So does that make it ok for the vehicle that does intend to overtake now & has room to do so, to complete their overtake manoeuvre?

In the situation where I am first in line behind the lorry, I am doing the usual things like looking down the road etc.

In the situation where I am second, then I am not doing anything.

Pray tell how the driver behind can tell that you're looking to overtake? Can he see the front of your eyes from behind perhaps? You've just admitted that if you're in second place then you're not doing anything, so that makes a speedy driver overtake from behind whilst your in second okay then doesn't it?

In the situation where I am second, then I am not doing anything. Unless the car in front is very obviously not trying to overtake, and is 20m or moreback at all times.

As 40mph is just over 17mps, the recommended 2 second rule would leave a distance of 35meters, or nearly double what you are implying is hanging back and not overtaking, I would say not only do you not know how to overtake by being able to increase your speed ready to pull put, but also you tailgate. Putting it bluntly, you drive like Miss Daisy and get into a rage when the entire rest of the world doesn't fit into your preconceived ideas of fairness and right. If NO ONE else agrees with you, there's just a chance you're not right...

I was here last weekend

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

Pretty isn't it.

Big queue of 30+ cars, moving at between 35 and 40mph No one was overtaking. If I had waited for everyone to take their "turn" I'd only just have got to Crianlarich by now.

you drive like Miss Daisy

I don't. You've got absolutey no idea based on this stupid thread, because you're not really understanding what I'm saying.

At least, if by 'driving like Miss Daisy' you mean slowly. Miss Daisy didn't drive in the play afaik.

I was here last weekend

Hope you waved at my house then

Hope you waved at my house then

Lucky man!

Can't grumble...

richmtb - Member

I was here last weekend

Pretty isn't it.

Big queue of 30+ cars, moving at between 35 and 40mph No one was overtaking. If I had waited for everyone to take their "turn" I'd only just have got to Crianlarich by now.

Whenever I've driven across Rannoch Moor I too have taken the opportunity to pass looooooooooong columns of vehicles. Look out for Stags, though.

[i]Look out for Stags, though.[/i]

[img] [/img]

Overheating at inopportune moments

[i]Overheating at inopportune moments[/i]

Would that be while considering overtaking, or while executing said overtake ? We need to know this.

Molgrips' Commute:
[img] [/img]

As 40mph is just over 17mps, the recommended 2 second rule would leave a distance of 35meters, or nearly double what you are implying is hanging back and not overtaking…

Solo - Member

Overheating at inopportune moments

Would that be while considering overtaking, or while executing said overtake ? We need to know this

The time between the STW post, the request being sent to the chap in front (by use of semaphore), and the response being received and confirmed is particularly awkward.

glenp - Member

As 40mph is just over 17mps, the recommended 2 second rule would leave a distance of 35meters, or nearly double what you are implying is hanging back and not overtaking…

And yet, that is the gap that Mr Important is going to force his way into when he fails to overtake the entire line of traffic.

35 Meters. That's about 9 car lengths! Looks like plenty of room to me - unless as the first driver in the queue (current rights owner of first dibs at overtaking) you were following much closer than this?

2 seconds is 2 seconds.

Before you commence overtaking you need to see that you can get to a safe place - inserting yourself forcibly into a one second gap (as it will become) is not that.

This is what you need.
😆

Just to say,

[img] [/img]

molgrips - Member

The best argument most people seem to be able to summon against me is 'tough shit'.

Nope, you're just ignoring the other ones because they don't fit the argument you're enjoying.

molgrips - Member

Are you serious? This has nothing to do with my overtaking ability

I agree. But advanced driver training might help resolve this "queuing up in a shop" nonsense. Bad attitudes are as dangerous as a lack of skill, and just as valid a target of further training.

tinybits - Member

As 40mph is just over 17mps, the recommended 2 second rule would leave a distance of 35meters, or nearly double what you are implying is hanging back and not overtaking,

You're not allowed to say that, it's trolling apparently.

You've got absolutey no idea based on this stupid thread, because you're not really understanding what I'm saying.

Mol, you're not understanding the difference between people not understanding you, and totally disagreeing with you. Questions are still forthcoming as people think they see a gap in your argument and hope they can insert a wedge to open it up. I know what you're saying, I just happen to think its crap. Now I'm being pedantic about your posts as I'm a little bored... You've been very specific about how you drive, I think you're slow, hesitant, unwatchful and tailgater based upon your lengthy and repeated descriptions.

Surely the nub of it all is: does the overtaker have a safe space to insert themselves into? If the queue is made up of gaps of 2 seconds or less, then he (for it will certainly be a boy) doesn't.

Surely the nub of it all is: [s]does the overtaker have a safe space to insert themselves into? If the queue is made up of gaps of 2 seconds or less, then he (for it will certainly be a boy) doesn't.[/s] more dancing zebras!

Oi ! Flashy ! hands off my Banana !
😯

Wow, is this still going? If molly was this assertive (albeit for a woefully lost cause in this instance) in his driving, he wouldn't have this issue he seems at pains to describe in a way that makes him appear a very very average (in the Australian sense of the word) driver.

[i]Wow, is this still going? If molly was [s]this assertive (albeit for a woefully lost cause in this instance) in his driving, he wouldn't have this issue he seems at pains to describe in a way that makes him appear a very very average (in the Australian sense of the word) driver.[/s][/i] To have his keyboard moved to a distance beyond his reach. We could all move on.

Yes, and I'm not helping so I'm now out. Back to checking the post for my rubber queens!

Maybe he feels he has to take on TJ's mantle of arguing to the death / lifetime ban (which ever comes first)?

Hopefully one or the other, sooner or later

[i]Maybe he feels he has to take on TJ's mantle of arguing to the death[/i]

Those of us who are about to overtake, salute you !

[img] [/img]

Surely the nub of it all is: does the overtaker have a safe space to insert themselves into? If the queue is made up of gaps of 2 seconds [s]or less, [/s]then he (for it will certainly be a boy) doesn't.

Actually, at the recommended 2 seconds, he does. He moves into gap, the following car drops back to maintain 2 second gap. It's hardly rocket science.

Hopefully one or the other, sooner or later

Reported.

Mol, you're not understanding the difference between people not understanding you, and totally disagreeing with you.

So are you.

People are assuming I'm not a decisive overtaker, and that I'm a dawdling granny. I'm neither. The reason I think I'm being misunderstood is that people are telling me their interpretation of my points and they're not correct.

They think I am arguing against the reasonable driver who only queue jumps when it's clear it's going nowhere. I'm not - I'm arguing against the dicks who barge past anyway without bothering to wait to see if I'm interested in going.

We all agree there are dicks on the road, don't we?

Actually, at the recommended 2 seconds, he does. He moves into gap, the following car drops back to maintain 2 second gap. It's hardly rocket science.

If the space is there to move in to, fine. If you are going to try and manufacture a safe space by forcing your way in and expecting the line of cars rearwards of you to oblige, then [u]not[/u] fine.

I'm arguing against the dicks who barge past anyway without bothering to wait to see if I'm interested in going.

I very rarely put myself on the wrong side of the road behind another car. Not enough visibility. Sometimes though if I can see very well, maybe it's a downhill followed by an uphill, I might.

Have you ever waited to overtake a lorry, had someone overtake you, and followed them past the lorry? Or is that a danger explosion?

I'm arguing against the dicks who barge past anyway [b]without bothering to wait[/b] to see if I'm interested in going.

And this is the bit people understand but completely disagree with you on.

Being behind you means the overtaking opportunity comes to you first, them later. If you haven't taken it at the earliest opportunity, why is it reasonable to expect them to wait?

[i]People are assuming I'm not a decisive overtaker, and that I'm a dawdling granny. I'm neither.[/i]

you don't want to follow an overtaking car if he then has the ability to deprive you of a safe place to go.

The correct thing to do here is overtake them as well as soon as they pull back in. 😉

Planning an overtake will usually take a good few seconds whilst you weigh up the hazards - a frustrated driver clearly stuck behind a slow moving vehicle is definitely a danger sign because they are likely to be looking to move out and overtake. A line of frustrated drivers even more so.

You need to be certain that the reason you are overtaking is not just that you are prepared to risk it when others aren't. No matter in what you high regard you hold your road warrior skills and how superior you feel to these other poor sheep on the road it is almost certainly the case that they have made a balanced decision which you should think about. Just assuming they are all muppets and bowling past is very dangerous.

The correct thing to do here is overtake them as well as soon as they pull back in.

Being behind you means the overtaking opportunity comes to you first, them later. If you haven't taken it at the earliest opportunity, why is it reasonable to expect them to wait?

Well if you read back, the problem with queue jumping involves more than just me, the speedy man and the lorry.

Well if you read back, the problem with queue jumping involves more than just me, the speedy man and the lorry.

Actually, reading back, it appears the problem is mostly you....

Now, now Zokes. Play nicely. 🙂

I've not read any of this bar seeing a nicely animated banana a page or two back when I popped in but I'm well impressed that this thread is pushing Thatchers death on the number of pages count.

STW has excelled itself by making as much noise about overtaking as it does about the death of the most divisive prime minister we had in the 20th century.

Err, that's it.

Come on, I suspect more that 75% of the >700 posts involve some variation on [b][i]IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!!!![/i][/b]

😆

a nicely animated banana

I too enjoyed this banana.

And the monkey.

Having a low opinion of other drivers is also a big danger - again; make assumptions at your (and everyone else's) peril. Half way down that line of cars you might suddenly realise why they aren't overtaking…

[i]Actually, reading back, it appears the problem is mostly you....[/i]

Well yea - except for that time when the guy ahead just about manages to get back in and you're high and dry because the first decent look at the road you got was when he pulled into safety!

You seem to forget, I'm driving a van. Can see over the top of cars. 8)

(oh, plus I wasn't being entirely serious)

[i]I too enjoyed this banana.

And the monkey.[/i]

But don't get the two of them in the same room together.

it is almost certainly the case that they have made a balanced decision which you should think about.

😀 😆 😀

[i]Ay! Its nice here init will we stop at the next village for a nice cup of tea[/i]

[i]We'd better Mavis I'm bursting[/i]

[i]75% of the >700 posts involve some variation on IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!!!![/i]

This *is* the Thatcher thread 😉

Having a low opinion of other drivers is also a big danger

Well that's just semantics, or maybe just me not explaining myself properly - I meant that it is dangerous to assume that the drivers failing to overtake are beneath you/in slower cars/asleep. It may well be the case that there is a really good reason for the line of cars holding station, and it's just that you as the rear-most vehicle can't see what the reason is yet.

I agree by the way that if you are going to overtake you need to be decisive - I strongly disagree however with anyone that bases that decision on the belief that they are a better driver than anyone else.

Or it could be the you can see clearly and are in a line of non overtaking dithers and accelerate past the lot if them, at which point an overly aggressive, Prius driver who has clearly been asleep wakes up and tries to take you out because it's not fair he was too busy reading current mpg and not the road ahead.

Yep, tinybits, that might happen. One of the many reasons that skipping a line of cars ought to be an exception, not a rule. Too many variables.

It may well be the case that there is a really good reason for the line of cars holding station, and it's just that you as the rear-most vehicle can't see what the reason is yet.

Yeah, often there's five or six lorries or caravans ahead and the rest of us have realised that it's not worth bothering as the motorway's coming up soon anyway.