[Closed] Overtaking.

[i]I was overtaken this morning. It was fine. Somehow I worked through the emotional impact of it all, don't ask me how.[/i]

I too have broken this barrier. Sort of, but I never really got upset about being over taken. It just never really use to happen.

However, two things happened. I got older and I got cruise control.
8)

xiphon - Member
What family 'cooking' car does 0-60 in 8 seconds?

pretty much any modern turbo diesel will now do that or thereabouts.

Solo - Member

My answer ?, if you've no intention of overtaking, put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry. In other words, leave a gap. That's then the gap those who do wish to get by.

That's a small gap!

I think this is part of the problem, we're a nation of tailgaters and there's nothing a dawdler likes more than to get really close to the car in front and obstruct other people, and likewise there's nothing a frustrated overtaker likes to do more than getting so close to the bus/truck in front that they can't see a damn thing.

[i]For the vast majority of people, driving is just something they do in order to go do something else, rather than a specific task in it's own right. Hence the average driver tends to pick a speed that matches their concentration and observation level. At this speed, not thinking about driving at all, they are entirely reactive, and simple procede along in their own "bubble". Typically they won't have noticed say the road leaving a built up area, or better visibility that "signals" that more speed could be appropriate etc. Hence, when you overtake you "suprise" and "wake them up" and 9 times out of ten, this impetus to re-consider their surrounding makes them realise that a faster speed would have been more appropriate![/i]
😯

Thats as may be, but there are those drivers who appear not to able to stand you passing them. Like those people who drive in lane 3, when lanes 1 and 2 are proper empty, for miles.
I've seen that get fruity on the Mway, early in the morning. Infact, its amazing what you see, if you just stay out the way and watch the Andy Greens' do their thing

[i]That's a small gap![/i], [i]we're a nation of tailgaters[/i]
Nice try.
How about the entire sentence:
[i]My answer ?, if you've no intention of overtaking, put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry. [b]In other words, leave a gap.[/b][/i]
😉

Indeed, i would generally use 10 car lengths as the "i'm following someone but i don't mind" distance. It's enough to open your sightlines fully, but small enough to quickly convert into a "close follow" position when sizing up an overtake etc. (obviously the gap should be dynamic, being velocity and situationally dependent etc)

Not really a "try"- it's true, at 40mph say, the recommended 2 seconds minimum gap is 120 feet- more like 10 car lengths. Not for allowing overtaking, but just to allow safe stopping. Now the official stopping distances etc aren't universally accepted but I don't think there's much argument that drivers tend not to leave big enough gaps (and that when you do, people tend to pull into it). I know I don't.

2 to 3 car lengths isn't a gap, it's barely the highway code stopping distance at 20mph.

Unlike in Molegrips Britain, he rest of Europe just will not queue like the British? Try getting an Italian driver to do as Molegrips is suggesting.

Does this mean that the whole of Europe populated by the worst kind of selfish bast**ds?

Are we perhaps here in England perhaps superior to the rest of the world because we like to queue?

N/W.

I'm sure you're not missing my point, but I'll repeat it, hopefully more clearly.

Its only my opinion, but if someone isn't interested in the overtake. Then perhaps they should leave a useful gap between themselves and the vehicle in front. So that those behind, who do wish to hurtle towards the horizon at warp speed. May do so.
🙂

[i]Does this mean that the whole of Europe populated by the worst kind of selfish bast**ds?[/i]

Probably. Afterall, they spent all their Euros !

[i]Are we perhaps here in England perhaps superior to the rest of the world because we like to queue?[/i]

Easy Tiger, who you accusing of liking to que ?
😉

I'm not missing that point, no- I'm saying that what your post is, well, contradictory. Leaving a bigger gap for overtaking is a very good idea, yes, but "put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry." is what you said.

[i]I'm not missing that point, no- I'm saying that what your post is, well, contradictory.[/i]

No its not !

I wrote.

[i]put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry. [b]In other words, leave a gap[/b][/i]

I then reposted the sentence and higlighted part of it in bold. You are now deliberately missing this for a reaction.
Commonly referred to as Trolling. Quoting stopping distances for a group of vehicles who are all moving at relative speed to one another can not have static stopping distances as quoted in the H/C applied to them. I have seen much smaller gaps used, at what distance one considers this to be dangerous is open to individual interpretation.
The main point I was promoting, was to be considerate and leave a gap for others to use in order to get by. Its not my intention to succumb to the attempts to drag my comments into the analysis of the minutiae of feet and inches.
😆

Longer than they typically do, which is not at all.

When you start planning your overtake?

Not when there's still windy roads and another car in front.

I'm objecting to the guy who overtakes ME, long before there's any gap I can use.

I'll be planning to execute an overtake immediately after each bend

That's shit driving. So you're the idiot sat just off the back corner of the lorry swerving in and out all the time - good job.

Who said anything about swerving in and out?

He said he was preparing for an overtake. To me, that means speeding up and moving to the white line to try and see down the road.

Or does he just mean steeling himself mentally?

You know what, this is the stupidest thread ever on STW.

No, you just don't like being overtaken 😉

[i]I start planning mine as soon as I see a car in front.[/i]

+1.

Vehicle.

He said he was preparing for an overtake. To me, that means speeding up and moving to the white line to try and see down the road.

Or does he just mean steeling himself mentally?

Preparing to overtake doesn't necessarily mean speeding up and moving to the white line. If done correctly it may often require you to loose speed / not close up to give you a view past the vehicle in front or to move to the nearside to see up the inside of the vehicle in front. It is not good practice to accelerate towards the vehicle in front and then dart out and past it makes more sense to move to an overtaking position and then accelerate past if it is safe

Solo, how is it trolling? it's just what you said, no interpretation on my part, and I quoted it in full so your suggestion's way off.

As I said- leaving a bigger gap to allow people to overtake into is a good idea, no disagreement. But your recommendation of a suitable gap is miles off- your "bigger" gap is less than the normal recommended gap at 20mph, and less than 1/3d the normal gap at 40mph, even leaving aside the extra room you think you're leaving. So your normal gap must be even smaller.

Leaving a safe gap between cars isn't minutae.

I'm objecting to the guy who overtakes ME, long before there's any gap I can use.

This is completely impossible since you come round the bend first, you see the straight clear road and overtaking opportunity first, and you have a chance to react first.

Assuming that this guy has been following at a safe distance then that's at least 2 seconds advantage you have but probably much more than that, particularly as you've described the fast car is coming from a few cars back.

Sorry but the only possible solution must be that you're late or hesitant to react, or that you've been positioning your car to give nowhere near enough visibility of what's ahead. Either way you can't really blame your frustrations on the guy behind?

This is completely impossible since you come round the bend first, you see the straight clear road and overtaking opportunity first, and you have a chance to react first.

No it's not. I come round the bend, see a short straight that my car can't use, but his can, so he takes it.

Then the next time there's space for two cars, they both go (at the speed of the first one) and I can't.

Assuming that this guy has been following at a safe distance

Why assume that?

Maybe take some in car footage and get back to us...

my car can't use, but his can

So it's nothing more than being jealous of his car's performance?

molgrips - Member

This is completely impossible since you come round the bend first, you see the straight clear road and overtaking opportunity first, and you have a chance to react first.

No it's not. I come round the bend, see a short straight that my car can't use, but his can, so he takes it.

Then the next time there's space for two cars, they both go (at the speed of the first one) and I can't.

Oh so you're saying that just because you can't or won't go in a certain situation then you begrudge someone else for taking the opportunity. Don't you see how selfish that sounds?

What's your reaction when this happens?

Maybe you could mount one of these on the side of your car that you could raise and lower as required? That would stop them in their tracks and make them aware that it's not yet their turn!

[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpMqa08AFk-MVZQguS-46tofhFPtH51mkBE0SKp3N2PszHWbJaWQ [/img]

Can I say that this evening at one point I drove like a bit of a bellend.
Needed to confess to the group.

Occasionally we all have to own up to our failings.
Dawdling or dickheading we're all fallible.

Speedy man comes from behind in his fast car, passes me in a small space and waits behind 1st. The next gap comes, there's space for only two cars, they both go. I'm left behind, when I should have been through. That's the last overtaking spot for 5 miles.

But this is correct, as you are now the third car, so one and two get through where there is space for two to do so, you are third in line so must wait your turn, not expect one and two to give up what is now rightfully their turn(s) in order that you, car three, can do an overtake when it's not your go.

thegreatape - Member

Speedy man comes from behind in his fast car, passes me in a small space and waits behind 1st. The next gap comes, there's space for only two cars, they both go. I'm left behind, when I should have been through. That's the last overtaking spot for 5 miles.

But this is correct, as you are now the third car, so one and two get through where there is space for two to do so, you are third in line so must wait your turn, not expect one and two to give up what is now rightfully their turn(s) in order that you, car three, can do an overtake when it's not your go.

Pure genius 😆

Oh so you're saying that just because you can't or won't go in a certain situation then you begrudge someone else for taking the opportunity.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

What I begrudge is because of speedy man, I can not take the opportunity that I WOULD have been able to take had he waited his turn.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

What I begrudge is because of speedy man, I can not take the opportunity that I WOULD have been able to take had he waited his turn.

Do you have a crystal ball? How do you know that *if* you were in their place, there would be a clear safe opportunity to overtake?

You don't!

I know it when they go, and I see there's not enough room for me.

is this still going?

is molgrips still waiting for a suitable oppurtunity to overtake and get out of here....

Molgrips incar footage - latest car episode
Still searching for a clip of an overtaking manoeuvre but I don't think any have ever been captured.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrsNT8lx_cs

Whatever happens, you shouldn't be reacting emotionally either to being overtaken or to being flashed/hooted at,

Otherwise you will be in violation of Star Fleet regulation 619: "The commanding officer must relieve themselves of command if their current mission leaves them emotionally compromised and unable to make rational decisions".

He said he was preparing for an overtake. To me, that means speeding up and moving to the white line to try and see down the road.

I'm still not sure which is true! Great thread though 😉

No, that's not what I'm saying.

What I begrudge is because of speedy man, I can not take the opportunity that I WOULD have been able to take had he waited his turn.

The end result is that you'll probably have to wait a little longer to overtake, then overtake and you have a nice clear road ahead of you since speedy man has already gone.

The other option is that you overtake before speedy man and after the car who was first in the queue meaning that you'll still be behind someone else and then speedy man behind will probably just overtake you again anyway further down the road anyway, meaning that the result is roughly the same either way.

Isn't this whole thing to do with you just don't like being passed by speedy drivers?

Right. It's come to this. I am left with no alternative.

[img] [/img]

oldnpastit
Otherwise you will be in violation of Star Fleet regulation 619: "The commanding officer must relieve themselves of command if their current mission leaves them emotionally compromised and unable to make rational decisions".

Haa Haa Rookey Error! #619 is "Hugely well endowed female members of the ships crew must both
A): dressed in a uniform significantly too small for their bust
and
B): At times of danger be suitable protected by more expendable and "plain looking" members of the crew

😉

[img] [/img]

'Is mesmerised by the Dancing Monkey '

Who has queueing/overtaking rights in this scene typical of my own commute?

[img] [/img]

🙂 at the tag!

I'm now totally convinced that moly is trolling. Story subtly changes to reflect mood, including whether its his chance, or whether he would have been unable to have tried and the frequency of this happening.

Well trolled that man!

Unless you're not in which case; OMFG!

Of he is, he's trolled the same before......... Probably more than once.....

That's shit driving. So you're the idiot sat just off the back corner of the lorry swerving in and out all the time - good job.

PS, You're not even close to guessing how its done. Not even playing the same game, never mind in the same ballpark. 🙂

I come round the bend, see a short straight that my car can't use, but his can, so he takes it.

Of he is, he's trolled the same before......... Probably more than once.....

It's a macro-troll.

Hmmm,has he now?

😯

This thread still going ?

Different day, same shit.

😆

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

If it's a bendy road and I'm behind a slow car, I'll be planning to execute an overtake immediately after each bend, and I'll start the overtake before the bend. It might not be possible, so I'll cancel and try again.
So if you're sat waiting to see a space before you overtake, sorry, if its me behind you, you're waaaaaay too slow sunshine

So i'm not the only one that does this.

Not many people seem to, which is why I get to pass them in the 3ton van. 🙂

[i]which is why I get to pass them in the 3ton van.[/i]

LMFAO !

Suggestions on the subject of overtaking, from Van Man.
Priceless !

[img] [/img]

😆

Taken the wife to work this morning, 30 mile round trip rural roads. Managed to get overtaken three times-

- two into one bit of road, Im sat behind half a dozen cars, BMW goes past us all with no where to go , crosses hatched section into oncoming traffic, flashed by other cars who have to swerve.

- Coming back on open road through fc land, Im doing 55ish, car behind makes consider and safe overtake.

- Further down the same road the car that overtook me and half a dozen others are sat behind tracked farm vehicle wider than single lane. Road ahead clears and they begin to overtake. I look in my mirror to see a focus overtaking the three cars behind me and then me causing the car in front (the previous overtaker) to swerve and bring the whole presetion to a standstill.

Eventually we all get past, curiosley though at the next town I pass the speedy car and the less speedy but safer drivers when they stopped roughly 5 seconds ahead of me.

One morning, three overtakes, at least one illegal, two dangerous and none effective.

One morning, three overtakes, at least one illegal, two dangerous and none effective.

I bet they had fun though . . .

Time for a break:

Have they introduced overtaking training in driving lessons?
How could they instructor fail them on something they have never been taught?

Instructors in 2008 where teaching such stuff. Never came up in the assessment though.

Rush hour, easiest time to take a test. Only did about 4 miles.

Just to add, my driving instructor was well known for using the dual controls to down shift and flicking the indicator on if he thought you were mincing and could overtake.
Never experienced this myself, he was more worried about me maintining NSL rather easily along the country lanes close to home.

No it's not. I come round the bend, see a short straight that my car can't use, but his can, so he takes it.

Then the next time there's space for two cars, they both go (at the speed of the first one) and I can't.

the other driver was able to overtake safely where you couldn't...or where you may have been able to but failed to recognise the opportunity quickly enough.

Yes, he was able to overtake ME not the lorry. And in doing so, he's scuppered me for the next opportunity I could have taken. Over and over again I tell you the same things, but you don't listen.

just so you can be first to overtake whatever is holding you both up?

Yes I ought to be first, because I was there first. It's a queue.

The best argument most people seem to be able to summon against me is 'tough shit'. Which just proves my argument really, that people are arseholes.

So you're annoyed at people seeing an opportunity to overtake a slower driver, in the same way your looking for an opportunity to overtake the vehicle in front?

(The slower driver being YOU)

I'm not the slower driver, I'm a speed limit driver, the lorry is the 40mph slow driver. If they want to subsequently pass me doing 90 then whatever.

Not seeing the sense in what you are saying.

Why is everyone in such a hurry? Surely if you love your cars and driving so much a few minutes more sat in traffic is a bonus? Why not just do strava for motorists? You could compare your cretin levels.

Does anyone have an official reference to this "making good progress" requirement to drive at the speed limit.

New to me and would be dangerous on many NSL roads.

Is it actually just a bad interpretation of the driving test tick box for hesitancy and progress?

the other driver was able to overtake safely where you couldn't...or where you may have been able to but failed to recognise the opportunity quickly enough.

Yes, he was able to overtake ME not the lorry. And in doing so, he's scuppered me for the next opportunity I could have taken. Over and over again I tell you the same things, but you don't listen.

When the other driver was overtaking you, if the opportunity was there and safe, while he was doing this you could have already been ahead of him, overtaking the lorry. Unless he's taken a ridiculous risk (and there's no mitigating for that) you should have had a couple of seconds head-start to begin your manoeuvre. If you didn't recognise the opportunity, then please accept you may need some assistance in doing so. There is no shame in this. Observation and planning.

just so you can be first to overtake whatever is holding you both up?

Yes I ought to be first, because I was there first. It's a queue.

No it isn't. Hang on, is this the five minute argument or the full half hour? 🙂

The best argument most people seem to be able to summon against me is 'tough shit'. Which just proves my argument really, that people are arseholes.

Again, no it isn't. The best argument seems to be get some advanced training.

if the opportunity was there and safe, while he was doing this you could have already been ahead of him, overtaking the lorry.

Well not when he's both in a fast car and is taking greater risks.

People do take lots of risks when overtaking, you know. Are you saying that everyone out there is safe and sensible when overtaking?

The best argument seems to be get some advanced training.

Are you serious? This has nothing to do with my overtaking ability, it's about courtesy. That's what I've been trying to say for the last 18 ****ing pages.

Or are you trying to say I should buy a faster car and learn to take risks like speedy man does?

Just because they're all more competent drivers than you and can judge the situation better doesn't make them all discourteous.

In fact the highway codes says exactly the opposite...

[b]Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular

do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate or safe to drive at the maximum speed limit
take the road and traffic conditions into account. Be prepared for unexpected or difficult situations, for example, the road being blocked beyond a blind bend. Be prepared to adjust your speed as a precaution
where there are junctions, be prepared for road users emerging
in side roads and country lanes look out for unmarked junctions where nobody has priority
be prepared to stop at traffic control systems, road works, pedestrian crossings or traffic lights as necessary
children, are looking the other way, they may step out into the road without seeing you.[/b]

And

[b]154
Take extra care on country roads and reduce your speed at approaches to bends, which can be sharper than they appear, and at junctions and turnings, which may be partially hidden. Be prepared for pedestrians, horse riders, cyclists, slow-moving farm vehicles or mud on the road surface. Make sure you can stop within the distance you can see to be clear. You should also reduce your speed where country roads enter villages.[/b]

[i]Over and over again I tell you the same things, but you don't listen.[/i]

Grips, its reading, not listening. And yes, they're all reading and they are comprehending. But they are pretending not to understand, so as to Troll you and this thread. You know this, which kinda makes me think you like receiving a bit of a kicking at the hands of the STW critics.
😉

Dancing Banana, anyone ?
[img] [/img]

You forgot to quote my comment in whole, therefore losing some context. Here's the rest:

[b]Unless he's taken a ridiculous risk (and there's no mitigating for that)[/b]

If he has, then so be it. He's a nobber.

However, the scenario has changed a number of times over the last 3 (three!!!) days. Sometimes it was a dangerous manoeuvre, sometimes it was a move only a faster car could carry out.

The best argument seems to be get some advanced training.

Are you serious? This has nothing to do with my overtaking ability, it's about courtesy. That's what I've been trying to say for the last 18 **** pages.

Or are you trying to say I should buy a faster car and learn to take risks like speedy man does?

Am I serious? Yes. Given [i]your [/i]scenario, that [i]you've[/i] described a number of people here have all pointed out that the overtaking opportunity could have been approached differently with better planning.

it's about courtesy

Mol - somewhere waaaay back in this thread you acknowledged that if there were drivers ahead of you who appeared to not wish to overtake (or were unable in that particular place), then you would pass them too.
If speedy driver looked, realised you weren't going to overtake & subsequently passed you, is he doing anything different to what you yourself are prepared to do.
Do you really expect everybody to wait (courteously) for you to decide to eventually overtake? How does speedy driver know you are intending to overtake at the next straight? Does he know that you know the road ahead & are waiting for that opportunity? Does speedy driver also know the road ahead & realise that from his starting position it may be too much a stretch to clear everything in one move, so safely moves up the line of traffic, splitting his overtaking into safe sections & allowing him to clear the slower moving traffic without endangerment of life?
Why is someone overtaking you taking risks? How a particular person perceives the road ahead, the view of traffic, their road positioning, preparation & anticipation can differ dramatically & massively affect what is considered a safe overtake, even with identical vehicles. If speedy driver responded faster [u]and[/u] has greater vehicle performance, that overtake you can't make becomes a simple matter of slipping by.

[i]In fact the highway codes says[/i]

Oh !, its, its, its as if TJ were here.

[img] [/img]

This has nothing to do with my overtaking ability, it's about courtesy

I understand what you're saying. Though I would like to know how the discourteous driver is supposed to know you intend to overtake?

I'm assuming you haven't already got your indicator on at the point Mr. Discourteous overtakes.

So in his eyes, as he's had time to start his overtake, you haven't tried to, making you are just another slow moving vehicle. Like the one you are trying to pass.

Does anyone have an official reference to this "making good progress" requirement to drive at the speed limit.
New to me and would be dangerous on many NSL roads.
Is it actually just a bad interpretation of the driving test tick box for hesitancy and progress?

oh, and why will no-one think of the lorry driver(and his children) in all this ?
When you've all (assuming mol' gets out of the way eventually) overtaken him and then stop at some lights, he won't get through before they change back to red - and IT'S NOT FAIR 😥

[img] [/img]

By and large people in this country don't overtake.

We are a nation of tailgaters.

So its reasonably safe to assume when I arrive at the back of a small queue that I will be the only one overtaking. However I would never overtake someone who is signalling to overtake. If someone has done this to molgrips then they are a dick. Although it would be nice if drivers of cars with glacial acceleration would check their mirrors before going for an overtake - but hey its not the end of the world if I have to wait until my next opportunity to overtake.

It might be possible that I have inadvertently "stolen" someone's go at overtaking in the past if so I apologise. Lacking either clairvoyance or precognition it is difficult to divine the future intentions of other drivers so I normally just get on with it.

Just because they're all more competent drivers than you and can judge the situation better doesn't make them all discourteous.

No it's really not the issue.

As has been covered, there are two reasons speedy man might pass me when I am behind the lorry.

a) he has a faster car - we've already established that this allows shorter spaces to be taken.
b) he's taking a greater risk.

Now, neither of those things give him the right to force me to wait longer than I would otherwise have waited had he not been there.

By and large people in this country don't overtake.

Not true at all, at least not where I drive. Maybe 80% of people in my experience will be wanting to pass a 40mph car or lorry.

[i]It might be possible that I have inadvertently "stolen" someone's go at overtaking in the past if so I apologise.[/i]

He said he was sorry, everyone.

Group hug now.
[img] [/img]

[i]As has been covered, there are two reasons speedy man might pass me when I am behind the lorry.

a) he has a faster car - we've already established that this allows shorter spaces to be taken.
b) he's taking a greater risk.[/i]
c) he needs the loo
d) his dog needs the loo
e) hes late for lunch
f) he drives a van
g) he knows you are Molgrips

Oh, the list is endless....
😉

EDIT:
Like this thread.
😆

But you weren't going to overtake there, you were waiting hoping for a longer straight some unknown time in the future. Which they can't possibly be expected to know, they just see someone declining perfectly good overtaking opportunities, so to them you look like someone who doesn't want to overtake. And quite reasonably pass you.

F) he drives a van

was that for my benefit? 🙂

[i]sent from my Van (while doing 80 in a 50)[/i]

Which they can't possibly be expected to know, they just see someone declining perfectly good overtaking opportunities

If they weren't dicks, they'd realise that normal people in cars that are obvioulsy not fast shouldn't be taking on tiny spaces. I don't queue jump generally, only if someone is way back from the lorry and isn't closing up after corners, looking down the road, or doing anything else that might indicate that they plan to overtake. However I clearly AM planning to overtake, they just blast on by anyway.

Let's be honest here - the real reason people queue jump is because they can, and they don't give a shit about anyone else. Isn't it?