[Closed] Overtaking.

you (generalist term, obviously with the exception of molgrips) can still overtake in low powered vehicles, it just takes a bit more anticipation & preparation

You can take smaller spaces in a faster car, we've covered this.

Are you seriously telling me that if you were driving an M3, you'd expect me in my Passat or Prius to be able to take the same spots as you?

No-one will win. I'm just trying not to lose. Some people on the internet think I'm a rubbish driver - this is not acceptable.

All good helpful advice with the bonus of zebras, giraffes etc. All it needs is a dancing walrus (anyone?) and the thread will be complete 😉

go on then.

[img] [/img]

Why do you think I am bad at overtaking, despite never having seen me? You've assumed that from what I've said, but I'm trying to say that you have not understood what I've said.

Could you not just get a dash cam and record some overtaking?

It would avoid any misunderstanding based on the written word.

Why do you think I am bad at overtaking, despite never having seen me? You've assumed that from what I've said, but I'm trying to say that you have not understood what I've said.

Look at the positives. You seem to be very good at being overtaken.

Or you could just be a bit more aware of the possibility of misunderstanding on an internet forum, and also not care about judging someone whose driving you've never seen.

Something like this:

"Well what you've written doesn't sound like good practice to me, but of course I've not seen you drive"

[i]be a bit more aware of the possibility of misunderstanding on an internet forum[/i]

me?

I've said nowt on this thread bar the odd gif and a suggestion that pictures are better than words.

I have no idea how you drive and, frankly, I've probably only read about 2% of the posts on this thread so I've no idea how you write it about it either.

Also, a lot of the fun on this place comes out of misunderstanding of the written word. Often deliberate misunderstanding.

The answer:
[img] [/img]

so long as there are no bends. It won't require a long straight to pass anything (other than a fuel bowser) though

Are you seriously telling me that if you were driving an M3, you'd expect me in my Passat or Prius to be able to take the same spots as you?

Oh you're back. I have another scenario for you in that case.

You're driving along in a "queue" 2nd car back from the slow vehicle which is holding you up. At the back of the "queue" is somebody in an M3 who is alert enough to take his chances. You drive past a couple of shorts straights, both of which are long enough for the chap in the M3 to get past a couple of cars in the "queue", which would have seen him past the slow vehicle at the front if he'd taken both of them. However he's a courteous and considerate driver who's waiting to see if anybody else in front wants to take advantage of the overtaking opportunities first. Nobody in front of him does attempt an overtake, so he comes to the conclusion that they're not going to, and on the next similar opportunity he does overtake, ending up in front of you. The next straight is a nice long one which [b]should[/b] have seen you all past the slow car, however there's something coming the other way so everybody is stuck behind the slow vehicle for the next 5 miles of winding roads.

Is it unfair that the M3 driver didn't overtake when he had the opportunity?

who is alert enough to take his chances

Hang on, so you think it's only down to alertness, and not the speed of his car?

However he's a courteous and considerate driver who's waiting to see if anybody else in front wants to take advantage of the overtaking opportunities first.

What about all the people further back in the queue who he's just passed regardless?

Are you saying we should all push our way to the front of the queue? Cos we obviously can't all do that. Are you saying we should all overtake anyone in the line of cars at any opportunity? Can you imagine the bedlam that would cause? Do you think it would be safe?

What about all the people further back in the queue who he's just passed regardless?

At the back of the "queue" is somebody in an M3

Oh so you're saying he doens't queue jump?

I've no idea what the rest of your post means.

Are you seriously telling me that if you were driving an M3, you'd expect me in my Passat or Prius to be able to take the same spots as you?

No.

And as the distance needed for an overtake is as much to do with the driver as the car it's not reasonable to expect anyone to be able to accurately ascertain the overtaking space others need.

For this reason people take the opportunities THEY need when they are presented. Unless a car in front has indicated their intention to pull out.

Turn, fairness etc don't come into it.

I am now convinced that molgrips is in fact trolling this thread. Nobody could be that daft as to care:-
1) What someone things of their driving
2) Be annoyed that someone thinks their driving is in fact crap.
WGAS?

Well why do you care enough to keep posting?

Turn, fairness etc don't come into it.

Sadly, that seems to be the prevailing opinion.

Indeed.

But it's not rudeness due to the impossibility of telling if a non-indicating car is planning to pull out.

I think this thread needs a calming, spinning seal;

molgrips - Member

Well why do you care enough to keep posting?

Oh so you're saying he doens't queue jump?

Nobody does. Remember that there is no queue. However if you were meaning that he doesn't overtake in stages, then no, I was referring to the point at which "he's waiting to see if anybody else in front wants to take advantage of the overtaking opportunities first." to which your response was "What about all the people further back in the queue who he's just passed regardless?", to which the answer is there aren't any.

So given your latest posts, am I correct in thinking that your opinion is that nobody should ever overtake in stages? So if you're stuck behind a line of cars none of whom are ever going to overtake and there's never an overtaking spot long enough to get past in one go you should just stay there?

How about a straight answer to whether my scenario is unfair?

And you sir?

Because my driving is being slated, and by implication me.

How about a straight answer to whether my scenario is unfair?

I don't understand it, and I don't think I've got the mental energy any more.

you should just stay there?

Yes. Why not? Chill out, sip your coffee, watch the lovely rolling countryside, put some tunes on, and relax.

I don't understand it

I didn't think it was that difficult - by nature we're not talking about single overtaking attempts here, so it's hard to make things simpler. There isn't any hidden meaning in that particular one if it helps.

Yes. Why not? Chill out, sip your coffee, watch the lovely rolling countryside, put some tunes on, and relax.

That is at least a straight answer. We can't give up now though, not after putting all this effort in.

Yes. Why not? Chill out, sip your coffee, watch the lovely rolling countryside, put some tunes on, and relax.

It quite possible in Scotland to drive 100 miles+ on unbroken single carriageways. Undertaking such a journey at the speed of the slowest car could add an hour to the journey time.

I'm not really prepared to sit at the back of a queue for 100 miles out of some misplaced sense of politeness or driving decorum.

Life is too short, which is ironic as the people most likely to hold others up are often the ones with the least life left

wwaswas

I can die a happy man 😀

Spinning seal! Genius!

Giffage;
[img] https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7303259392/h0022818A/ [/img]

mesmerising, isn't it 🙂

This got me thinking. What's the right thing to do in the equivalent position in an MTB race? Suppose I'm stuck behind a queue of slow riders on some narrow single track. An opportunity to get past is about to come up. Should I wait my turn and perhaps be passed by someone else, or should I just go for it and ignore the angry looks from the slower riders? Especially if we're about to come to a bombhole where everyone will slow down even more?

Does the fact that I have zero prospect of ever being on a podium make a difference?

I don't think you really get places that much quicker by overtaking. A few minutes at best, no matter what car you drive. If it's someone cruising along at 40 I don't bother anymore, the number of times in my youth I would get past someone like that, then when I'd arrived or stopped much further up the road, see them come cruising past me like 5 minutes later. These days, I see folk getting past me, and then I see them stopped off somehwhere much further up the road, looking like they more or less just got there. I think it's because the 40mph cruiser doesn't really brake or accelerate, whereas someone wanting to do 60 or more has to brake and accelerate loads, wait behind the next 40mph cruiser, get past them and so on, so the avarage speed isn't that much higher than 40 for anyone no matter how you drive. Best just to save fuel, tyres and brake pad material and chill I reckon, do 60 if you can, but if you're stuck in a line at 40, just roll with it, it won't really make any difference. Safer for all that way too.

60 is a limit, not a target.

molgrips - Member

"And you sir?"

[b]Because my driving is being slated[/b], and by implication me.

As 'they' say, you can criticise a man for almost anything, including his performance as a lover, but you must not, under any circumstances, criticise a man's driving.

I'm not really prepared to sit at the back of a queue for 100 miles out of some misplaced sense of politeness or driving decorum.

Neither am I.

As 'they' say, you can criticise a man for almost anything, including his performance as a lover, but you must not, under any circumstances, criticise a man's driving.

Yes. Why not? Chill out, sip your coffee, watch the lovely rolling countryside, put some tunes on, and relax.

I'm not really prepared to sit at the back of a queue for 100 miles out of some misplaced sense of politeness or driving decorum.
Neither am I.

If so, before you know, there'll be dancing zebras everywhere.

*Lies in wait*

I miss the dancing Zebras....seems like such a long time ago

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

How about ferrets unlimited?
[img] https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7303245312/h6537B51D/ [/img]

No point in continuing this. My every word is being pulled apart into unrecognisable nonsense.

I'll just make a note of the contributors, then if we ever end up on a forum ride requiring cars, I'll offer to drive.

Yey for Zebras

And ferrets

My every word is being pulled apart into unrecognisable nonsense

I'll just make a note of the contributors, then if we ever end up on a forum ride requiring cars, I'll offer to drive.

Won't everyone else be halfway round the black route when you arrive? 😉

I'll soon catch you up, don't worry.

Ahhh, but will you then "jump the queue" when you do catch up on the trails?

My question still stands & isn't in any way a misinterpretation.

Yes. Why not? Chill out, sip your coffee, watch the lovely rolling countryside, put some tunes on, and relax.

I'm not really prepared to sit at the back of a queue for 100 miles out of some misplaced sense of politeness or driving decorum.
Neither am I.

So, are we expected to chill out & relax so that you can overtake?

Depends if you arrived after me or not. That's why I say it's a queue, that's how they work.

Fact is, I've been overtaken many times whilst waiting for a spot myself. And that's put me at a disadvantage. I wouldn't make this up, would I?

I'll soon catch you up, don't worry.

How will you overtake people on your bike?
[img] [/img]

My bike's an Orange 5, you can hate me all the more now.

So someone with a faster car / better anticipation passes you in a spot you can't overtake. The only disadvantage to you that I see is that someone...has a faster car / better anticipation.
It is not a queue, people are going different places, with different agenda's & different acceptances of slow vehicles, be that because they can't or do not wish to overtake.
I view an overtake opportunity as this...vehicles ahead see the opportunity prior to me, or they should if they are correctly positioned & anticipating a manoeuvre. They therefore have the opportunity prior to me. If, by the time I decide to overtake there is no indication from them that they intend to overtake, then I do. Simple. I have not "stolen" anyone else's opportunity as they made no indication of intention (whether that is actually signalling or otherwise). If you feel that I have stolen your spot, then suck it up & MTFU...it is nothing personal & how many opportunities am I expected to pass up, on the basis that at some point in the future you may wish to overtake.
I will add that I generally look to pass everything at once if at all possible in multi vehicle situations, but if the gaps between vehicles are sufficient & I only have short straights, I will make my way up the line of traffic & slot back in where suitable (note, the bigger the gaps between cars, the farther to travel to pass everything, making it more likely to require splitting the overall overtake plan into safe & manageable chunks).

So.. if you see a vehicle, you just pass it? Regardless of what it might possibly be doing soon?

So say, approaching a roundabout, or a town or something?

roundabout

[img] https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7303259392/h0022818A/ [/img]

molgrips - Member
So.. if you see a vehicle, you just pass it? Regardless of what it might possibly be doing soon?

So say, approaching a roundabout, or a town or something?

oh come on, you're not even trying now!

Now you really are getting petty & ridiculous.
Did you fail to note the "overtake opportunity"?

Are you accusing me of overtaking vehicles anywhere & everywhere? Odd, given that you have accused others of misinterpreting your driving, that you blatantly do the same.
Shall we try again...

I view an overtake opportunity as this...vehicles ahead see the opportunity prior to me, or they should if they are correctly positioned & anticipating a manoeuvre. They therefore have the opportunity prior to me. If, by the time I decide to overtake there is no indication from them that they intend to overtake, then I do.

Are you accusing me of overtaking vehicles anywhere & everywhere?

That would be stupid, since I know as much about your driving as you do about mine.

since I know as much about your driving as you do about mine.

Right. There's only one way to sort this...

Helmet cams at dawn it is. Molgrips et al - record your drives and upload your driving vids for full STW technique analysis. 😉

You mean something like this?
[url=

I think Mols is there too...at about 2:25

Yes, video evidence

"It's a bendy road but people do go at a great lick along it. It's 60mph at the moment but the council are looking at changing it to 50 and hopefully this will make a difference."

..from a recent tragic incident, that should end this thread for all but the bell ends.

[img] [/img]

..from a recent tragic incident, that should end this thread for all but the bell ends.

Was it an accident involving somebody overtaking a queue in stages?

singletrackbiker
I view an overtake opportunity as this...vehicles ahead see the opportunity prior to me, or they should if they are correctly positioned & anticipating a manoeuvre. They therefore have the opportunity prior to me. If, by the time I decide to overtake there is no indication from them that they intend to overtake, then I do.

"It's a bendy road but people do go at a great lick along it. It's 60mph at the moment but the council are looking at changing it to 50 and hopefully this will make a difference."
..from a recent tragic incident, that should end this thread for all but the bell ends.

Not in my experience. It will, however, increase the police's take in speeding fines

People need to get their heads round the concept that whilst speed is a contributory factor in many accidents, it is almost always poor driving that is the root cause.

No reply could say more than your own words.

Irony alert.

Are you going to answer my question IanW?

Does any road accident happening for whatever reason mean that it's not safe to overtake, ever?

From the same article that IanW is using to apparently justify zero overtaking...or a speed related issue.

"A car went into an articulated lorry. All we know is what the police have said – that the car tried to overtake something or the car hit a kerb which has sent it spinning out of control and obviously gone head-on into a lorry."

It's 60mph at the moment but the council are looking at changing it to 50

I really want to start a thread on this pointless waste of public money in the name of safety, that completely misses the point and only achieves cluttering up the countryside with more signs, but the whole thing is just too depressing.

Yesterday I came onto a group of five vehicles following a truck. Just as I caught up the van first in line overtook. No one else did.

At the next opportunity I overtook the rear two cars. No one else overtook. The car in front was then a Passat.

And I actually wondered if it was Molgrips 🙂

What should I do? So of course at the next opportunity, I overtook them and the truck. And none of them again tried to overtake.

This was all in NSL, and they seemed happy to drive at 40mph for the next 20 miles (which is where the dual carriageway starts).

Yes, that sounds fairly typical and in-line with my experiences.

There appears to be a fear/reluctance to overtake in preference to driving (far too) closely to a vehicle in front. Maybe it's due to the age profile of the (driving) population?

And, of course, some younger people mistakenly thinking that they are waiting in queue 😉

Personally, I much prefer having an clear road in front of me.

Yesterday I came onto a group of five vehicles following a truck

Good effort that, improve you're diet and you might get the truck as well.

b r is "Mr speedy arsehole" fact. 😆

[i]b r is "Mr speedy arsehole" fact. [/i]

Can't be, I haven't got a Beemer any more 🙂

Is it an Audi now? 😆
On a more serious note, I think the phrase "you snooze, you lose" is applicable here. Unless you're in America where some roads are a straight as an arrow, you need to take your oppertunities when you can. However, probably as a result of age mellowing me, if I see a group of 3+ cars behind a slow moving vehicle, then I probably wont even bother trying to even partially overtake the group as its not worth the hassle, I'll just sit back and chill.

There appears to be a fear/reluctance to overtake in preference to driving (far too) closely to a vehicle in front. Maybe it's due to the age profile of the (driving) population?

I think the majority of drivers haven't been taught how to overtake, and wrongly assume that getting as close as possible to the car in front is the best way to overtake. The "tailgaters" must want to go faster otherwise why would they sit up the arse of the slow vehicle tapping their brakes every 5 seconds? The trouble is in that position they have made it very difficult to overtake anything.

So to Molgrips' point 80% of drivers probably do want to overtake a slower car but 90% of them never will

Didn't get on STW over the weekend, and just thought I'd post to say that I'm so glad to see this thread is still thriving! 😆

Not sure I can be bothered to catch up with it all though.

I think the majority of drivers haven't been taught how to overtake

Nail -> Head

This thread is still going?? Bloody hell. 😐

Not seen the main protagonist for a while either...

I think the majority of drivers haven't been taught how to overtake

What do driving instructors teach...how to pass a driving test.
Perhaps if lessons were more encompassing, the UK's roads would be safer. Perhaps a motorway driving test too?
How about mandatory eye tests over a certain age too?
I know - more cost etc. but with what long term safety improvement?

I think the majority of drivers haven't been taught how to overtake

IAM training would teach that.

But this forum (possibly this thread) has offered the gem that advanced drivers are boy racers too immature to confine their antics to the track.

So to Molgrips' point 80% of drivers probably do want to overtake a slower car but 90% of them never will

Exactly, they'll just sit there like impotent lemons at 40mph and whinge and flash when any 'totally selfish hooligan' dares to make progress past their mobile roadblock, or dares to steal their rightful opportunity to overtake 1st (the opportunity that they would probably never ever take anyway).

Thing is maybe they are onto something? 40mph on a NSL road followed by the same 40mph through 30mph villages en-route. So any time they loose on the open road is made up when they gain a significant amount of time past the gates of the local primary school. Cunning!

You really are being a prize pillock, rebel12.