[Closed] Overtaking.

(in relation to weighing up an overtake)

That might explain why molgrips gets overtaken by those dastardly queue jumpers. A good few seconds!? You have to be kidding me? Also, where has anyone even hinted that they base an overtaking decision on a belief that they are a better driver ?
if it takes you that long to weigh up hazards that should have been registered in an instant in conjunction with your ongoing awareness of road and traffic, then you probably should just continue to queue politely!

You think that having a fast car and being assertive (in your mind) makes you a better driver? It just doesn't. If you are first to the decision to overtake because you just ignored some of the hazards then you are not a good driver, you are an impulsive selfish driver.

One final thing - if the line-jumper is sure they will find a gap to re-enter the line, and feels that the car in the line whose safe space he has just taken up will then have to drop back and re-create the 2 second gap … how will the overtaker feel if the car in line moves [i]forward[/i] and insists that he drop [i]behind[/i] and create his own fickin' gap? Cos basically if I feel you are just forcing your way in front of me I see no reason why you should not be grateful to slot in behind me when I accelerate to make a gap for you there. Why should I create a nice gap in front of me when I can move up and create a space behind me and then I can drop back and re-establish my safe space?

Let's up this one a notch. What if - instead of a lorry - I'm backed up behind a squadron of ducks?

[img] [/img]

What kind of monster did I create here! 😯

Why should I create a nice gap in front of me when I can move up and create a space behind me and then I can drop back and re-establish my safe space?

Probably because the HC says so. You do realise that the action you're proposing is illegal and dangerous?

Exactly. Overtaking without knowing where you are going is dangerous too. If I offer safe refuge by creating a gap behind me what is wrong with that? The only thing wrong with that is the road warrior has to do a little climb-down for a second as I refuse to doff my cap and jump out of his way.

[s]^ reported for having 2 accounts[/s]

< reported for having 2 accounts

Overtaking without knowing where you are going is dangerous too.

Except he did know where he was going.

If I offer safe refuge by creating a gap behind me what is wrong with that?

remember this?

Probably because the HC says so

The only thing wrong with that is the road warrior has to do a little climb-down for a second as I refuse to doff my cap and jump out of his way.

It sounds suspiciously to me like you're upset not because he's doing something dangerous - I mean so are you - but simply because he's overtaking you. Nobody is asking you to jump out of his way, simply not jump into it. Your action is like shoving your trolley into the aisle in front of somebody walking to the till so that they run into you.

The overtaker does NOT know where he is going. The line is made up of gaps of 2 seconds or less, typically. There are no safe gaps except those created for him by the good grace of others. If he comes in front my 2 seconds is now less than 1, and he doesn't have a safe distance either (not that he cares because he probably feels like he has much better reactions/better car/is more of a man). Effectively the selfishness of the line jumper compels everyone behind him to drop back and re-establish safe distances, sending a slowing down wave through the flow of traffic which we are all familiar with from the motorways.

If safety is a priority (and it damn well should be) then taking the flow of the road for what it is is by far the best approach. I do overtake, but I certainly don't arrive at the back of a line and commence skipping up without even knowing what's ahead and/or thinking about it.

Fun and largely inane thread is turning serious again. Anybody got any amusing pictures of animals to calm things down?

No animals, but I quite like....

[img] [/img]

Oooh, and...

[img] [/img]

If safety was actually a priority for all those sheep in the line, they would be leaving "safe" gaps, i.e. big enough to encompass unexpected events (like someone "pushing in" without issue. However, tailgating aomeone 5.1m away results in not much room when someone fill that gap with a 5m long car! (which at some point they will, even if they are morally wrong for doing so)

Good road manners and defensive driving is a technique best encompassed oneself, suddenly you'll find you simply aren't affected by the hoards of "bad drivers" i'm constantly been told about.........

I see your cow-in-a-sidecar, and i raise you a lion in one:

[img] [/img]

😉

Oh, so it's like that is it, maxtorque? 😉

Camel trumps lion.

[img] [/img]

On the other hand, dog trumps camel...

[img] [/img]

Effectively the selfishness of the line jumper compels everyone behind him to drop back and re-establish safe distances, sending a slowing down wave through the flow of traffic which we are all familiar with from the motorways.

Maybe if all the drivers in the line are driving dangerously, but even then the comparison is spurious, given the furthest back it can travel is to where the overtaker has come from, which presumably isn't actually that far back. You could of course always check what the HC has to say about this...

Elton John in a sidecar trumps all your animals

[img] [/img]

pah, they are all just passengers:

[img] [/img]

Bear riding a Harley = Top Trump

🙂

Dammit!

* applauds maxtorque's unplayable bear/Harley combo *

maxtorque - did you play Comedy Mammals Top Trumps just before Christmas? You'd have been a worthy opponent. 😀

Sorry, but you're all trumped

[img] [/img]

Effectively the selfishness of the line jumper compels everyone behind him to drop back and re-establish safe distances, sending a slowing down wave through the flow of traffic which we are all familiar with from the motorways.

You could of course always check what the HC has to say about this...

See page 1 (yes, PAGE ONE) of this thread for that:

168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

The overtakee is required to help the overtaker past if necessary, and the overtakee is responsible for re-establishing the 2 second gap. We knew that 24 pages ago, but some people think they know better than the highway code.

Outa my doggone way - I'm going for an overtake . . .

[img] [/img]

some people think they know better than the highway code.

Apparently fairness trumps that.

[img] [/img]
Apologies if I nicked this off someone on here.

[img] [/img]

Technology has the answer.

[img] [/img]

Twice in 24 hours I've encountered vehicles (cars and a medium-sized van) driving along closely behind slow-moving tractors on open, straight rural roads with good views.

Twice, I have immediately overtaken (modest diesel estate car) said columns with no difficulties, no need for enormous power or any unreasonable risk. Twice, the other vehicles have not attempted to overtake the tractor and did not do so in the time they were visible in my rear view mirror.

Other people, eh?

ps. Should I have joined the "queues" each time?

[img] [/img]

rebel12 - Member

But the whole point of this thread is flawed because a line of flowing traffic is not a queue is it? A queue is defined as a line of people waiting - most usually for the same thing.

That point got completely ignored about 500 posts ago, it'll be ignored again now.

[img] ?resize=600%2C451[/img]

This is really quire outstanding.

Please don't ban molly - if he's clearly dumb enough to provide this much entertainment, he's presumably daft enough to do it again.

@molly - reported for being tedious

FLATLAND DOG!
[img] [/img]

rebel12 - Member
But the whole point of this thread is flawed because a line of flowing traffic is not a queue is it? A queue is defined as a line of people waiting - most usually for the same thing.

That point got completely ignored about 500 posts ago, it'll be ignored again now.

Whhhhaaaatttt?

This changes everything! Seems like I've missed something pretty major here.

* Goes to read back through this thread to check that the difference between a queue of stationary cars and a line of flowing traffic was adequately raised. *

[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4vaZlkRScJLG400t1qK_QcEKOWPTbxwwSXbctn5vJoVNRKnk5 [/img]

Mirror, signal..wtf?

The overtakee is required to help the overtaker past if necessary, and the overtakee is responsible for re-establishing the 2 second gap. We knew that 24 pages ago, but some people think they know better than the highway code.

It may state
'[i]Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass[/i]'
and
'[i]Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you[/i]'

Which is not
'[i]you are required to make room when some tosser tries to pull into a non-existent space[/i]'
or as you put it
'[i]The overtakee is required to help the overtaker past if necessary[/i]'.

[u][b][code]If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass.[/code][/b][/u]

Which is not 'you are required to make room when some tosser tries to pull into a non-existent space' or as you put it 'The overtakee is required to help the overtaker past if necessary'.

You are right, better to leave them to their fate and let them get wiped out by oncoming traffic.

It would deny you the opportunity to flash your lights at them though

EDIT

Surely though if you are driving correctly, there is at least a 2 second gap between you and the car in front?

scuzz, put down the keyboard and step away from the crazy person.

[img] [/img]

pass is not pull in.

You are right, better to leave them to their fate and let them get wiped out by oncoming traffic.

Not what I was implying.

By claiming it's the overtakees responsibility to create a space for pulling into starts the process where it becomes acceptable to aim for non-existent or not big enough gaps.

Just pointing out this is not what the HC actually says and definitely not the correct way to drive.

A competent and careful driver takes whatever action he or she can to make a dangerous situation safe. Anyone who doesn't take action to prevent an accident when they could have, regardless of how much of a cock the driver who has caused it all has been, falls below or far below the standard of a careful and competent driver, and thereby drives carelessly or dangerously (respectively).

So if you realise that 'speedy man' has misjudged the situation and needs to get in front of you sharpish, and you deliberately prevent him from doing so when you could have let him in, you are also culpable for any unpleasant consequences.

You lot have been playing so nicely, I imagine you're all hungry by now.

[img] [/img]
and
[img] [/img]

Are we allowed to eat while we're overtaking ?, except PP of course.
🙂

After your tea and biscuits...
[img] [/img]

wow, freeky, thats EXACTLY what i've just had!!

(the choccy digestives and tea, rather than the inbred Mullet touting gun loving trucker 😉

And. looking at the packet, i think i may have eaten about that many too......oops!

[i]the inbred Mullet touting gun loving trucker[/i]

Yeah ?, but I bet he can sure overtake the shit out of a queue of traffic.

Twice, the other vehicles have not attempted to overtake the tractor and did not do so in the time they were visible in my rear view mirror.

Other people, eh?

ps. Should I have joined the "queues" each time?

For ****'s sake.

How many times do we have to say this? IF you have given the person plenty of opportunities to overtake and they don't, then you can. You know this, we've said it over and over again.

This is not the scenario I'm complaining about.

You know this, we've said it over and over again.

It's like being a goldfish but with a slightly longer memory span.

[img] [/img]

How many opportunities should you be given before being overtaken molgrips? If you still can't accept your argument may be flawed after TWENTY FIVE pages, I fear you are lost to reason.

Three.

If you still can't accept your argument may be flawed after TWENTY FIVE pages, I fear you are lost to reason.

Cuts both ways, that.

Thought experiment- Mr Fast Overtaker actually is giving Molgrips chances to overtake, he just isn't aware of it because as far as he's concerned, there haven't been any.

Again for the 100th time he should be aware that I can't take tiny spaces.

Why the **** are you bothering? Seriously? I'm trying to defend myself, you're just.. I dunno what.

Ok you win. I'm a shit driver, I pootle around, I've got no idea how to overtake and I'm very angry. Please instruct me on how to overtake. I promise I don't already do all the things you say anyway.

Everything interesting I had to say to you, you ignored about 12 pages ago so you could concentrate on pretending that there's only one argument to answer, tbh. SO you can't complain too much if I stick now to the road more travelled.

Thought experiment- Mr Fast Overtaker actually is giving Molgrips chances to overtake, he just isn't aware of it because as far as he's concerned, there haven't been any.

Is actually a pretty good point I've often been second or third in a line of cars and thought if that was me in first place I'd have gone already but from two or three cars back you obviously need a bigger piece of clear road. So when that piece of clear road appears I don't hang around waiting to be held up any longer.

I expect the main protagonists on this thread have spent longer posting/reading/boiling their piss than the time sat behind somebody in a car they feel is stopping them from getting somewhere really important.

Thought experiment- Mr Fast Overtaker actually is giving Molgrips chances to overtake, he just isn't aware of it because as far as he's concerned, there haven't been any.

Is actually a pretty good point I've often been second or third in a line of cars and thought if that was me in first place I'd have gone already but from two or three cars back you obviously need a bigger piece of clear road. So when that piece of clear road appears I don't hang around waiting to be held up any longer.

I expect the main protagonists on this thread have spent longer posting/reading/boiling their piss than the time sat behind somebody in a car they feel is stopping them from getting somewhere really important.

Well all except one. He's spent longer than the whole existence of STW sitting in a "queue" behind a slow vehicle thinking about overtaking.

MrSmith - Member

I expect the main protagonists on this thread have spent longer posting/reading/boiling their piss than the time sat behind somebody in a car they feel is stopping them from getting somewhere really important.

I'm stuck in traffic right now and posting from my phone!

Ok you win. I'm a shit driver, I pootle around, I've got no idea how to overtake and I'm very angry. Please instruct me on how to overtake

Lol

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8248/8640606519_0c632eab25.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8248/8640606519_0c632eab25.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/69309759@N02/8640606519/ ]g1333412216776460898[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/69309759@N02/ ]VeeeDubStar[/url], on Flickr

Not referring specifically to anyone in this thread whatsoever. However out on the roads, and in life generally it really does hold true.

I reckon this version (posted recently on another thread) may be more appropriate in the context

[img] [/img]

Haha! Like it - that Toy Story image is pretty versatile

[img] [/img]

molgrips - Member

Three.

If you still can't accept your argument may be flawed after TWENTY FIVE pages, I fear you are lost to reason.

Cuts both ways, that.

[img] [/img]

Indeed, but I can accept your arguement is flawed, can you?

Maybe you're not getting it, or your argument is also flawed?

molgrips - Member
Three.

Can you point me to the advisory or mandatory statement in the highway code that suggests or states you must give the car in front three attempts to overtake?

Then we can finally put this to bed.

Ta.

Again for the 100th time he should be aware that I can't take tiny spaces.

How exactly is he supposed to know what your (by which I mean you and your vehicle) capability is? We're getting back to crystal ball territory again.

I seem to be able to tell who's going to force their way through tiny gaps, and who's not. I can spot a fast car or a plain family saloon.

I'm sure most of you can too.

Then we can finally put this to bed.

You can put this to bed now. Just walk away. You can put a stop to all of this. Just walk away.

Again, I'm playing catch up on this thread. Do we know who's won yet?

No-one will win. I'm just trying not to lose. Some people on the internet think I'm a rubbish driver - this is not acceptable.

In my years on the road I have from time to time seen people in little cars doing overtakes, and even on occasions people in great big cars happy to bimble along.

Perhaps everybody sees your Prius and assumes that you are too busy drinking a carrot juice and listening to whale music CDs to be interested in overtaking?

I can spot a fast car or a plain family saloon.

I'm sure most of you can too.

Q-cars FTW! 😉

Some people on the internet think I'm a rubbish driver - this is not acceptable.

😆

I'm a rubbish driver - this is not acceptable.

Which is why many people have been encouraging you to do some more driver training, to get yourself up to scratch.

Do we know who's won yet?

I think it was the bloke driving the M3.

I'm an average driver in fact sometimes rubbish when i dont concentrate and thus am worse than you molgrips and by definition in this small sample makes you a good or at least better driver. Therefore everyone is happy and this thread can go to bed.... hurrah 😉

Who was driving the M3...was it aracer?

Define tiny overtaking space? Surely that depends on recognition of opportunity & performance of vehicle driven. Been said many times...you (generalist term, obviously with the exception of molgrips) can still overtake in low powered vehicles, it just takes a bit more anticipation & preparation.

[i]Can you point me to the advisory or mandatory statement in the highway code that suggests or states you must give the car in front three attempts to overtake?[/i]

Three times you say........

[img] [/img]

[i]I'm an average driver in fact sometimes rubbish when i dont concentrate and thus am worse than you molgrips[/i]

Your self deprecation and desire to sacrifice your driving reputation will carry no weight here. Theres a whole [s]nut house[/s] forum of folk here to do that for you.

[img] [/img]

Again, I'm playing catch up on this thread. Do we know who's won yet?

thegreatape just did with this stunner...

Perhaps everybody sees your Prius and assumes that you are too busy drinking a carrot juice and listening to whale music CDs to be interested in overtaking?

🙂

Why thank you...

[img] [/img]