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So why does everyone sit in the inside lane and glare at you as if you've just run over their cat when you drive past in the empty outside lane?
Happened to me last night. Me and few others stayed in outside lane and slowly drove up the outside until a new skoda in front of me pulled into a gap, leaving me at the front. Still 500m until the filter so I carried on for a bit until a lorry pulled out on me with 300m or so to go. I happily sit behind the lorry until the filter at which point he gets let back in and I don't - no big surprise there but I was surprised when the skoda driver shot up the inside to make sure I didn't get in.
Why do people do that?
Can we make this a sticky ? 😉
British thing innit. All passive aggressive BS.
I always go all the way to the front, anybody who doesn't is insane.
"merge like a zip" as the signs say in Kiwiland. A car from each lane at the merge sign in turn, much better traffic flow. I am doing it right and all yous are doing it wrong ! Arrest me. Or more likely, sit there and give me a filthy look. That really hurts.
Merge like a zip and there wouldn't be a problem
Vigilante truckers always make me laugh.
Arrrgggh beaten to it by Hels
I was quite impressed to see on the roadworks on the A30 dual in Cornwall signs that read "Use both lanes until merge". And then at the merge 'Merge in turn' signs.
Perhaps more roads need these to override the British queuing mentality and make maximum use of the road space.
There's a chapter in this book about merging:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Traffic-drive-what-says-about/dp/0141027398
The most efficient solution is to fill both lanes and merge at the end, but this breaks down because people get angry about folk driving down the closing lane and block them.
I tend to merge a bit early but not a mile before like some people insist on. I reckon its the same people as those who do 50 in the outside lane because they are turning right at a roundabout a mile up the road.
[i]Why do people do that?[/i]
I presume you must know why people do that, unless you're a bit dim, so a rhetorical question. But britsh folk like to queue and you're a queue jumper so get to the back sonny.
when they had a lane closed near Derby there were *huge* signs saying "use both lanes, merge at the last minute" and still people got in one lane so the queue backed up and blocked the exit behind us 🙄
I nearly got rammed by a bloke who was policing the lane-to-be-closed-half-a-mile ahead
Because people feel you are pushing in and 'beating' them in the great road race to the destination. Rationality often switches off when the ignition is switched on... Cars make people even more stupid.
he is getting to the back, it's just that there are 2 queues and he's joining the shorter one. I wonder if there are people who look for the longest queue at the supermarket checkout then join that while tutting at the people joining shorter queues.But britsh folk like to queue and you're a queue jumper so get to the back sonny.
If you get someone being a dick about letting you merge in, I find if you get in front of them and then leave a huge gap for lots of others to merge sends them from irate to apoplectic
Agree it is the brit mentality.
The signs don't help. Gone midnight M25, very few vehicles around, and yet for miles and miles before road works we have flashing gantries, telling us lane(s) closed, 40mph with speed camera's at the entry to the restriction. You then sit in outside lane, as inside three were 'closed' at 40mph, for 5 miles to find a few hudred metres of cones and a couple of blokes looking at a light that was out. 😉
That re-enforces the 'panic, slow, get in line' attitude IMO.
The challenge is the numpty who ignores it all and piles into a roadworks at 90...
This really boils my piss too, sometimes I think it would be better if the signs don't indicate which lane will close so people don't know which one to queue in!
[i]If you get someone being a dick about letting you merge in, I find if you get in front of them and then leave a huge gap for lots of others to merge sends them from irate to apoplectic [/i]
If you were merging properly there wouldn't be a huge gap for you to leave at the front. You merge at the end of the lane. Maybe they're annoyed at your inability to use the lanes properly.
It's the same when you're trying to join heavy traffic on the motorway from a slip road. Rather than just easing off the accelerator for half a second to create enough space for a car to merge, everyone just seems to bunch up even closer with a "not in front of me sonny!" attitude.
Even worse are the numpties who sit completely static at the start of broken white line on the slip with their indicator on, unable to work out why they can't seem to merge, with 200m of empty slip ahead of them. I would barely flinch if they all simultaneously self combusted.
On roadworks near us they have put up signs saying "use all the road and merge in turn".
Idiots who pull out and slow the traffic are just making the roadworks closer.
lorry pulled out on me with 300m or so to go
I was 6 cars behind in a queue going up the outside lane about 500m before the merge, lorry pulls out and blocks car in front.
Jam sandwich was behind me, had been for a few mins. He hit the wee waa flashy thing and we all magically merged on the spot, and the lorry got sent to the hard shoulder. Was very funny.
jam bo - Member
If you get someone being a dick about letting you merge in, I find if you get in front of them and then leave a huge gap for lots of others to merge sends them from irate to apoplectic
I really CBA'd with this whole queue 6 miles up the road in one long snake or belching fumes and like a lot on here (so it seems) drive right on down to the front in the available free lanes until I drop in. Nearly always I get let in only probably once or twice have I had a nob in a truck think he's a queue God and block/try to block me.
Once I'm in the queue I'm often found letting others in, say about 4-6 cars before I then start to refuse and off on my merry way..
I so giggle to myself at the outrage some folks get into when you look in your side mirror for a gap and slot in.. 😆
I once had a Jag scoot right passed me in a fuming mess (once I'd dropped in in front of him) he pulled out and overtook me knowing the lane was closed about 100mtrs down the road, then he forget to turn into the only open lane again about 4 cars down and he promptly mounted the dunces hats at about 50mph causing all sorts of chaos..
Served him right. 🙄
Could be that merging only works when both lanes are flowing and vehicles form the zip effect described above, left, right, left, right.... When you have two or more lanes volume of traffic going into one then you get a bottle neck. When someone has already let one car merge in front of them in the zip effect then another dozen cars also do the same the system fails as you get left, right, left, right, right, right, left ,right, right, right, right....
As the OP described the Skoda let the truck merge in front of him, which is the zip effect, then he also tried to go in front of the Skoda when he should have merged behind it like a zip does. If the Skoda had shot up the inside then surely there would have been adequate space behind to merge in the correct manner had he not been fixated on getting to the front rather than merging.
Transport is planned for people to use the full road available to them soI join at the end of the merge, same for merging onto a motorway.
People can be dicks though. Was at Calais Eurotunnel last week. Tannoy announcement called F & G but only F was displayed on the board (we were G). Some woman starts ranting at me for proceeding to the train and frantically pointing at the letter in her windscreen as if i'm jumping the queue.
Get to the next control and we get directed to a different lane to her to board a train later (as I expected). Did I get an apologetic look after all her fuss??!!
Because people don't know how to drive. Merge at the very end, alternating left and right.
I too have had the "vigilantes" be they cars or lorries. I wonder whether with increasing use of in car "Go Pros" we might see more prosecutions for blocking the lanes ? Love your story @dbcooper
I had a completely new experience on the ring road round Oxford. A guy pulled in to the clear outside lane in front of me with 2 miles to go and then proceeded to move at the speed of the inside lane so he kept his space in the inside lane. So the outside lane was jam packed behind me and completely clear in front of him. I just laughed at the total preciousness of it all.
I fail to understand, unless it's as simple as most people are stupid, why merging causes an issue.
The lorries pulling out baffle me even more; a deliberate action demonstrating huge levels of retardation. Should be an instant lifetime ban on the spot for people demonstrating insufficient common sense to drive safely. Same goes to lane 2/3 hoggers. Just ban them instantly. APRN is good enough to sort that out. The traffic problems would be solved in about a week!
A guy pulled in to the clear outside lane in front of me with 2 miles to go and then proceeded to move at the speed of the inside lane so he kept his space in the inside lane. So the outside lane was jam packed behind me and completely clear in front of him.
I do that. 🙂
related one that gets me on way home, in Glasgow, heading for M8 from Dobbies Loan area. There is a left filter off for the M8, with a set of lights about 200m before it. All the folk who will be taking that left slip start queing in the left lane way before the earlier lights, meaning that it can take 20 mins to get through them. At the lights both lanes are signed as ahead, so I dont see why I cant be in the outside lane at those lights, where there is no queue, and then merge into the left lane in the following 200 m section ?
I dont see how it is in any way a traffice violation, however the reality is that firstly, folk won't let you in to the left lane as they think you have 'jumped the queue' and secondy, as you have to slow to a virtual stop while waiting for someone to let you in, folk behind in the right lane, who are going straight on, get angry....
[i]related one that gets me on way home, in Glasgow, heading for M8 from Dobbies Loan area. There is a left filter off for the M8, with a set of lights about 200m before it.[/i]
You're missing some vital bits of information from your post. The lights are a lot more than 200m from the merge, there's generally a high volume of traffic pulling out of the side road just before the merge, the outside lane is straight on only, it's not a merge in turn situation, you're trying to force your way into a line of stationary or very slow moving traffic. Both lanes at the lights are signaled 'ahead' but you're going left a wee bit further on.
So you are in the wrong lane but still expect people to let you in.
[i]folk behind in the right lane, who are going straight on, get angry..[/i]
Again because you were in the wrong lane to start with. I've seen police move drivers along from sitting in that lane on quite a few occasions.
But to be fair that whole stretch from Dobbies down to the M8 slip is badly designed.
If I drive to work, on the way home there is a roundabout at the end of a dual carriageway. Cross the roundabout, and it is two lanes merging into on after about half a mile or so.
Every day, at rush hour, everyone queues up in the left hand lane, which causes a tailback, and effectively blocks the roundabout.
There are massive signs saying "Use both lanes" and "Merge in turn". How hard can it be?
I'm perfectly happy for all the sheeple to queue on the left - it leaves the right hand lane completely free for the rest of us who've read the highway code to zip right up to the merge point, probably saves a good wedge of time and avoids the need to queue at all.
Never had much of a problem merging at the end, particularly when I'm in the old Volvo shed. If someone's a c**k, closes the gap and refuses to let me in then I'll just keep moving gradually over to the left in front of them until they do finally let me in. Normally in the battle of wills then a battered old Volvo has a distinct psychological advantage over a shiny 4x4 c**k chariot. After all if the Volvo gets another dent, it just adds to it's charm & character 😉
pebblebeach - I agree with most of what you say, indeed I'm usually in the left lane 🙂
however..
Both lanes at the lights are signaled 'ahead' but you're going left a wee bit further on.
given that both lanes are signalled 'ahead' someone who was new to the area would have no idea that they 'should' be in that left lane at the lights..., so
isnt really the case.Again because you were in the wrong lane to start with.
But yeah, very poor design and a daily annoyance for me 🙂
We've discussed this a few times before. Here's last time's nine-pager:
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/oooo-am-i-going-to-get-a-visit-from-the-police
So you are in the wrong lane but still expect people to let you in.
I don't know the road but it sounds like you're right. From my comment on the previous thread:
It depends on the road of course. Where two lanes merge into one, like a lane closure on a motorway, you're supposed to merge in turn at the point it narrows like teeth in a zipper. There's absolutely no point in sitting there three miles away from the merge point in a queue that's twice as long as it needs to be whilst the rest of the road sits there unused. Blocking off half the road is just petty.
On the other hand, if the two lanes to one merge is one of those things where it's actually two lanes going to different places then people should be queuing rather than trying to shove in at the front (blocking off the other lane in the process).
Well generally if you know you're going left a bit further on you wouldn't sit in the right hand lane at a set of lights where there's long queue of traffic. Unless you made a genuine mistake. Most people know they're in the wrong lane, which they are, but hope to force their way in.
If you know the area then you're most definitely in the wrong lane.
I do that.
You, sir, are an arsehole.
Tricky that one Iainc, I'm having difficulty coming up with a similar junction near me where there aren't problems with people going up the straight ahead lane then jamming up the road while waiting to get into the left lane (where there's already a long backlog due to just too much traffic)
Alternatively I do know of junctions which are definitely labelled for turns several lights ahead of the actual turn, you still get some dick tear arsing up the SA lane and then trying to cut in at the turn 🙄
or pulling out of the long queue for the turn jumping a few places and then try to cut back in 👿
But is it as annoying as smokers in the beer garden? Poll?
He hit the wee waa flashy thing
Why do I find that so amusing? I think I'm going Friday nuts.
Grrrrr, self appointed Yorkie eating queue police... If there's one thing that demonstrates they've reached the appropriate level in their lives, it's that queue vigilante shite some 'truckers' insist on. That's shortly before overtaking their chum at 56.1mph or pulling out in front of you because they're 'professionals'. Tosseurs.
But is it as annoying as smokers in the beer garden? Poll?
What if someone's blocking off the outside lane, smoking?
I do that.
Pondo, why?
Is it because you're unfamiliar with merging or is it a power-trip thing to make you feel important at others' expense?
Just wondering as it's fairly inexplicable behaviour to most people.
Thing is you can still 'merge like a zip' a mile back when the signs first indicated that the lane would be closed and traffic is still moving. The merge like a zip approach right by the closure point with 2 queues of traffic feels like it would be slower although at least it's a fair system.
The slowest traffic flow of all would seem to be most people merging as soon as there's a gap and a few people merging at the last possible moment which is what we generally have.
Those that merge halfway down the queue are just as bad as those who refuse to merge in turn/block each other at the pinch point.
Merging early is queue jumping as you slow down the queue you join and speed up the queue you left.
If you correctly use the lane that is closed up to the merge, at least have the decency to stay in it until it ends!
When a driver behind me prevents someone from merging correctly by tailgating me, I tend to slow down and wave the driver in the other lane past and allow a couple as well just to rub it in 🙂
You can't merge like a zip early unless there is a sign saying 'merge here' everyone will try and merge at different points. And its dangerous as you get queueing traffic and potentially high speed traffic in the other lane.
Forget temporary ones, what about 2 lanes into 1 on the A64 into York, only ever used it twice and people seem to have a serious problem with merging in turn on there too. Most preferring to queue in the left lane and glare at anyone who continues to use the right hand lane (despite both being stop start)!
Merging too early makes the tailback longer, which can have an impact on roads further back and people who aren't even going that way.
Or to quote Adam Hills, just don't be a dick !
I was driving home yesterday, and there was a queue almost back on to the bypass at Lothianburn. Get to the front eventually, and it was because some total useless bints has decided that if they couldn't get the pump they wanted at the gas station the best thing was to QUEUE FOR THE PUMPS ON THE BUSY A ROAD. So everyone had to wait for a gap in the oncoming traffic to get past them. Unreal ! If somebody had fire-bombed them no jury would have convicted.
For the hard of thinking, the correct procedure in this situation is KEEP DRIVING TO THE NEXT GAS STATION.
Not me, a (ahem) friend. If one of those 'prostitute murderers' (© Clarkson) pulls out and forces my friend to stop, on occasion, he may have overtaken them (when safe) and gently slowed to 20mph for a bit. Who knows what effect this then has on their collesterol filled arteries 😀
[i]For the hard of thinking, the correct procedure in this situation is KEEP DRIVING TO THE NEXT GAS STATION.[/i]
Do they have gas stations in Lothianburn? And what if you needed 'gas' right there, right then, carry on till you run out of fuel?
#awesomedriversthread
Pondo, why?
Is it because you're unfamiliar with merging or is it a power-trip thing to make you feel important at others' expense?Just wondering as it's fairly inexplicable behaviour to most people.
Well, I'll tell you how it works from my perspective and you can all rip it apart at leisure. 🙂 I don't fully understand why people merge early for a motorway lane closure, but I accept that they do. If I block the traffic in the unblocked lane, we all roll towards the blockage at the same speed and can merge in turn. If I don't block the traffic in the unblocked lane, the unblocked lane will move faster to the detriment of the two unblocked lanes, and I don't really see a compelling reason not to try and stop that happening. So it's for the greater good, really. 🙂
Errrm Pondo, does that reduce total capacity and therefore throughput slowing down all lanes? Just a thought. Do you drive a waggon as well? 😀
Why do I find that so amusing? I think I'm going Friday nuts.
Well that what my girls call it, I don't actually know what its called. 😳
Errrm Pondo, does that reduce total capacity and therefore throughput slowing down all lanes?
Errrm no, it just moves the merge point.
thus reducing capacityErrrm no, it just moves the merge point
thus reducing capacity
Isn't capacity limited by the amount and rate of vehicles that can fit past the blockage?
Yes it moves it back, and the best place to merge is as late asap as then you (in theory) should get uniform merging. If you dictate where the merge point is then the whole process falls apart which is generally what happens. Would be a lifetime ban in my book!
That isn't the point tho pondo - it moves the line of traffic further back thus increasing the impact on other related traffic flows. You have 2000 metres of road to the merge point. You can fit all those cars into 1000 metres of road if you use both lanes. Depending on the surrounding on-ramps and interchanges this may cause an impact to other traffic.
The time it takes to merge is quicker if everyone merges in turn as they should, as everyone knows what is going on and the traffic flows better, rather than randomly indicating and asking to be let in at the point you think is about right for what a polite and right-thinking person you are, lets call it the Passive Aggressive British-ness co-inefficient !
We need a public information film to educate the nation on the correct way to go about this situation.
Anyone who tries to obstruct you at the point of merging in turn should be taken to Calais and traded for a migrant.
Well, I'll tell you how it works from my perspective and you can all rip it apart at leisure.
I suggest you read the previous thread I listed, where it was discussed at length. Basically, you're causing an artificial roadblock for no reason whatsoever, and potentially causing problems further back up the road as it forces standing traffic on joining roads too.
Have we included the German car (BMW/Audi/Merc) quotient in the calculation?
And of course, if both lanes were full up there wouldn't be a queue as such, just two lanes of traffic. Join whatever one you want, they are both moving at the same speed. I sometime think people just like to queue, moan and be sanctimonious. And watch cricket.
Erm... At what point does a lane become a queue?
Merge in turn would be great if as a nation, we were any good at it. We like to queue and therefore see any attempts at merging in turn as someone being a dick and skipping the queue.
My nightly misery is getting off the M74 onto the M73 south of Glasgow where the single lane slip road is shared with an exit lane and has an entry slip road filtering into it 500 metres further ahead. People get into the right lane early as there are no signs, or reasons to suggest merging in turn, so a start - stop tailback is created for miles with people "jumping the queue" and those defending the queue rather than merging in turn.
As well as the multi-million pound roadworks to improve this section of the M8/M73/M74, berpahs they can spend a little bit of dosh educating people about merging in turn.
Slowoldman, when the traffic is crawling or stopped.
Part of the problem is half of the muppets that have managed to obtain a driving licence don't understand merging (the newer road signs people mention will hopefully help). Mind you the odd [s]audi driver[/s] tosser merging from right but trying to queue jump (as in following the car in front into the gap not waiting for the next gap) raises everyone's stress levels and people start leaving gaps too small to merge and it all goes to pot.
Merge in turn would be great if as a nation, we were any good at it. We like to queue and therefore see any attempts at merging in turn as someone being a dick and skipping the queue.
People can think what they like tbh.
I'm not going to join in with the idiots, and end up waiting longer than I have to, just to appease some nobbers with incorrect views on how things should be done.
Slowoldman, when the traffic is crawling or stopped.
So how fast are your two lanes of traffic going?
12.7583 kms per hour. Anything over that is a lane.
If you dictate where the merge point is then the whole process falls apart which is generally what happens. Would be a lifetime ban in my book!
Two lanes get to the blockage quicker, one lane gets through at the same pace as the other two lanes. As opposed to one lane getting to the blockage quicker and two lanes getting there slower.
I think the average throughput is the same no matter what, it's just that people taking advantage of those who merge early don't benefit.
That isn't the point tho pondo - it moves the line of traffic further back thus increasing the impact on other related traffic flows. You have 2000 metres of road to the merge point. You can fit all those cars into 1000 metres of road if you use both lanes. Depending on the surrounding on-ramps and interchanges this may cause an impact to other traffic.
Basically, you're causing an artificial roadblock for no reason whatsoever, and potentially causing problems further back up the road as it forces standing traffic on joining roads too.
I'm talking more specifically about a lane closure on a stretch of motorway so's to theoretically disregard the effect on junctions. I totally accept those as valid points but I think it's a different aspect.
The other issue with arbitrary merging is it's chaotic; people changing lanes randomly, tempers raising, people deliberately winding others up with their piss poor driving (pondo), it's an accident waiting to happen. And the place where you really want an accident is right before a roadworks.
Drive to the merge point or move over, but stop being a hazard.
Erm... At what point does a lane become a queue?
do you have some sort of "killer" point to make as to why filtering at the pinch point isn't the right thing to do ?So how fast are your two lanes of traffic going?
The other issue with arbitrary merging is it's chaotic; people changing lanes randomly, tempers raising, people deliberately winding others up with their piss poor driving (pondo), it's an accident waiting to happen. And the place where you really want an accident is right before a roadworks.
Now that I [i]do[/i] refute. Randomly changing lane behind me or a lorry or whatever blocking an empty lane is pointless as all the traffic's travelling at the same speed. And I don't do it to deliberately wind people up - if that happens, so be it, but that's not why I do it.
I think the thrust of the point is that some people drive in a way that ensures traffic is moving freely and merging sensibly, whereas others see a queue and an open lane and simply queue jump under the guise of 'merging in turn'.
There is a line in there somewhere and some drivers see the line at a different place than others.
And I don't do it to deliberately wind people up - if that happens, so be it, but that's not why I do it.
Do you do it because "you know best" 🙄
pondo - are you that cockwomble who ended up trying to ram me?
Now that I do refute. Randomly changing lane behind me or a lorry or whatever blocking an empty lane is pointless as all the traffic's travelling at the same speed.
If no-one ever did pointless things, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
And I don't do it to deliberately wind people up - if that happens, so be it, but that's not why I do it.
So why do you do it? What possible benefit does it have to you or anyone around you?
Do you do it because "you know best"
No - for me it's much more -
There is a line in there somewhere and some drivers see the line at a different place than others.
pondo - are you that cockwomble who ended up trying to ram me?
Not knowingly! 🙂
I think the thrust of the point is that some people drive in a way that ensures traffic is moving freely and merging sensibly, whereas others see a queue and an open lane and simply queue jump under the guise of 'merging in turn'.
Your fundamental misunderstanding is that there isn't "a queue and an open lane," there's a queue comprising of two lanes.
But regardless of what you, I, or anyone else may think, the cold hard fact is that you're [i]supposed[/i] to use both lanes and merge in turn. On longer-term fixtures they put signs up telling you to do it and everything. If you were supposed to merge a mile down the road, that's where they'd have coned off the road.
Ha ! You are tandemjeremy and I claim my £5 !
The countdown to the Edinburgh Defence commences.
There is a line in there somewhere and some drivers see the line at a different place than others.
The line is where those bright orange cones are. That's what they're for. It's really not difficult. It doesn't matter what "some drivers see." Some drivers think the middle lane of the motorway is the "cruising lane," they're just as wrong.
So why do you do it? What possible benefit does it have to you or anyone around you?
Roughly speaking, if I block the empty lane...
Two lanes get to the blockage quicker, one lane gets through at the same pace as the other two lanes. As opposed to one lane getting to the blockage quicker and two lanes getting there slower.I think the average throughput is the same no matter what, it's just that people taking advantage of those who merge early don't benefit.
Yes Cougar has the point. It's not for drivers like Pondo to dictate the merge point. There's a specific place and that's the one that should be used.
Simple really?! But it seems many just don't get it.....