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Pogbas work rate for France isn't so different, but other players have enough work rate for him to create in moments.
Norwich are shaping up to be the worst prem team of all time
You'll claim that award from the cold dead hand of Derby County fans....
United need a manager who has the balls/authority to drop Ronaldo and ship Pogba out, for starters.
Have you read the Observer article I posted before, fella?
United will win nothing while these parasites own the club. They literally couldn’t give a shit about results like today. They’re not running a football club. It’s a theme park.
This is absolutely bang on as to where United are and what the priority of the owners is
It’s absolutely dismal
Pogbas work rate for France isn’t so different, but other players have enough work rate for him to create in moments.
It's certainly true that France has players that paper if his defensive weaknesses but United create more chances and score more goals when he is on the bench. If he were using his best qualities for United, that wouldn't be the case.
He doesn't drive with the ball, he takes the easy passing option, he doesn't seem to want to get involved in going forward. The opposite of what he does with France.
Man U = Keir Starmer.
United will win nothing while these parasites own the club. They literally couldn’t give a shit about results like today. They’re not running a football club. It’s a theme park.
It's interesting how american it's becoming. Major League Baseball and the NFL model. No need to win cos you can't get relegated. There's no money to be made in playing, the money is made when the teams are sold. Merchandise and tv rights pay the bills. Cities and States build the stadiums. It's all about tailgating, the 'experience'. Disney writ large.
I wouldn't blame the Glaziers, Ole has spent £400 million since taking over, it's his team and he's been supported every year, they've spent way more than Liverpool over the last 5 years and that doesn't seem to be seen on the pitch.
Remember Liverpool's owners are pretty much the same, although the Glaziers did just win the Superbowl with their NFL team, so have won something recently!
Remember Liverpool’s owners are pretty much the same
I realise it’s just another bunch of super-rich owners which the some eejits here would foolishly put on a par with the de facto petro-state ownership of City, NUFC and PSG, but to be fair to FSG, they’re far better owners than the Glazers. Also, the Red Sox broke an 86 year “curse” to win the WS. The nature of baseball makes consecutive WS wins very difficult. They did make the play-off semis this season which while not ultimately resulting in a trophy is still bloody good for a baseball franchise.
Their tenure has been good for LFC, far better than those shysters, Hicks and Gillette, and it’s looking like a Anfield will be a high capacity stadium over the next few years. I was disappointed in them going for the Super League, the last of which we haven’t heard yet! Comparing them to the Glazers - I dunno, it’s a valid debate for sure, but I know who I’d rather have as owners.
Steve Bruce is out of work… United legend!
United will win nothing while these parasites own the club. They literally couldn’t give a shit about results like today. They’re not running a football club. It’s a theme park.
What you need is some arabs with a reputation to cleanse 😂
Just been listening to the 5live phone-in which is always good fun after manure get thrashed. I only got 3 calls in and the football geniuses who make up the utd fanbase (assuming they weren't city fans taking the piss) suggested Ole be replaced by Roy Keane, Martin O'Neil or (wait for it..) Chris Coleman!. Of course we all know they'll probably hire the welsh wifebeater once he gets off his latest assault charge so it's a bit academic.
Gary Neville are having a bit of a breakdown live on TV!
Ronaldo as player manager. That wouldn’t surprise me actually! United just have no vision or semblance of a plan do they? A collection of (in the main) very good players. Ole has to take the blame - they should be far better than what they are.
That was a pretty intense post-match discussion on Sky. I thought Gary Neville was going to punch someone.
Remember Liverpool’s owners are pretty much the same
When Liverpool were owned by Stadler and Waldorf and finishing 8th every season you could say they were the same. The present owners are very very different
Ronaldo as player manager. That wouldn’t surprise me actually!
I can absolutely guarantee you that one of the Glazers has actually vocalised that tonight
I despair at what this club has become. Rudderless and flailing, devoid of any direction other than the pursuit of more and more money.
The look on Fergies face tonight summed up how we were all feeling
https://twitter.com/projectfootball/status/1452315362364694536?s=21
He must be absolutely mortified watching this shite! The worst United performance I have ever seen. And there’s been some serious competition for that title over recent years
Theme park is a good description. Buy a ticket and get a discount to the Nevilles' hotel on the industrial estate? OGS's USP was the fact he isn't Jose, but that ship sailed now. Little tactical ability, he was the kid at the theme park who asked his Dad for 30 quid for the chance to win a stuffed toy. Paying Ronaldo a fortune to sell shirts and duvet covers isn't the way to build a team to challenge for the league. If I were a Man U fan I'd be just as concerned by the lack of kids coming thru or given the chance at least. Fergie will be hitting the vin rouge this evening.
Also the most thuggish United performance I think I've seen and that includes when Roy Keane was in he team.
Agreed. There could have been 3 perfectly justifiable red cards tonight
It was as ill-disciplined as it was tactically abject
The whole set up is a total ****ing shambles! Maguire’s post match interview was pathetic. I wonder how many agents are on the phone tonight
Meanwhile in other football news: Reading's Loss to Blackburn see's them languishing in 13th.
Bloody chicken pluckers!
😀
The look on Fergies face tonight summed up how we were all feeling
Which is a bit rich considering the mess he left when he buggered off. His last few years were spent wringing the last out of the golden generation. No recruitment save persuading Schokes out of his zimmer frame, er, retirement and signing Giggs up for Yoga to keep him able to tie his boots.
He was canny enough to know when the jig was up and got out just ahead of it.
FSG rescued Liverpool from a fate very much like United's. Gillett and Hicks had pulled the leveraged buyout scheme, same as the Glazers. FSG acquired it for less than its debts, never mind its real value. So it hasn't been strangled by debt like United, or Arsenal come to that. They thrashed around for 5 years chopping and changing managers and getting not much in return. Klopps been there what 7 years? Bought players in gradually and built a team. Now it's paying off.
So different owners, different finances, different ethos.
In there news, Brentford looked the business yesterday. Bit unlucky I thought. Didn't look they they were outmatched at all.
He was canny enough to know when the jig was up and got out just ahead of it
Maybe he just tired of papering over the cracks for a bunch of parasitic carpetbaggers and thought it best to leave with his (well-deserved) reputation intact.
If you lay the blame for Uniteds decline at Fergies door then you’re an idiot. He achieved in those last seasons despite those *s. It’s only now you see just to what degree
From a football perspective (how quaint?) it’s been an utter shambles since he bowed out and it’s been getting progressively worse
Utterly clueless
But as long as they’re selling plenty of replica shirts in Malaysia it’s all just absolutely *ing brilliant!
In fairness fergies last couple of years were dire, the last season they won was because Chelsea and city were playing like the keystone cops
But that’s the whole point.
We shouldn’t have been winning but we did. You don’t win titles on the back of batterings like today, though that’s what everyone remembers
You win it on the back of scrarpy 1-0’s on wet, cold Monday nights in Stoke when you’re playing shite but something bounced in off a midfielders arse without him knowing anything about it
It wasn’t great, but it was better than anyone else, which is all that counts.
I’d take it every time over this shite, but we all knew where we were headed once the Glazers took over and here we are
The Glazers took £117 million out of the club in the last month. Happy days for them, not so great for those of us who’ve supported this club all our lives and are reduced to watching humiliations like tonight
Or you are to much of a Ferguson syncophant to see it. No need to get personal. The structure at United under Ferguson was left behind in modern football. Because of his power at the club the academy was failing and recruitment was non existent. They didn't appoint a director of football until after he'd gone - he'd never have stood for it. Far too late to keep up with the game.
He didn't understand stats, which by his own admission caused him to make bad decisions. Former players sent their kids to the other clubs academies because Uniteds wasn't fit for purpose.
Yes, he was hampered by the Glazers and the relatively small budgets he was given. Still bigger than Arsenal and Leicester had and they did far better. Far smaller clubs had much better academies. Ferguson ultimately contributed to the malaise of the last 5 years as much as the Glazers have. It's not entirely his fault, except that his power at the club meant there was no one to balance his weaknesses. Hell the FA couldn't even get him to knuckle under. He did remarkably well with the aging and out of date squad. But the fact that it was aging and out of date was as much down to him as anyone else.
Which is a bit rich considering the mess he left when he buggered off.
And the fact that his silly greedy argument over Rock of Gibraltar's jizz allowed the Glazers in. He was also a big cheerleader/apologist for them IIRC.
his silly greedy argument over Rock of Gibraltar’s jizz
If forgotten about that! That was allegedly the start of the decline in the relationship that led to the Magniers selling.
The tightness of the Glazers is a bit overstated. United have spent a net 1 billion or so since they took over. They have spent the same again servicing the debt, of course.
Theyve spent about 75% of what City have spent since around 2012. The only way they could field a side 75% as good as city is if 7 of the 11 were borrowed from City and the other 4 were De Gea.
Is the fact that Fergie's style had run its course in any way demonstrated by the fact that none of his protegees have really had any success. You'd have thought that being a player under 'the best manager ever' would have showed them how to do it and yet there's no-one had any success to really speak of. Hughes, Bruce, Stam, Neville, Giggs, OGS, etc..... have all pretty much failed in comparison?
It's an interesting question. Fergie himself, if he was being honest, would admit he wasn't a tactical genius. He built a team that played essentially one way 'the united way'. He built an academy to create players that could slot straight into his team. He bought players that would fit right in. Then the game changed and they got left behind. He tried to cover the cracks by buying specialists and creating enough cohesiveness to get results. He bought players without ever seeing them play. Carlos Queroz left a noticeable gap when he left and results improved almost immediately on his return.
Fergies real magic was his ability to man manage. There was no plan B, only do plan A better. It's not going to result in the most well rounded players graduating into Management, except for the experience they got from some of the coaches.
I think in a lot of ways the ex-players who haven't done well as managers didn't spend nearly enough time honing their craft before jumping into some very big roles. Well that and Roy Keane is only temperamentally suited to coaching inside a secure unit.
I think that's part of it, but also that those players who learned under him, are largely just regurgitating those training sessions without understanding what that means in terms of producing a performance on matchday. They don't understand why they did what they did in training, they are just repeating without understanding.
Although to be fair that is probably 90% of the managers in employment and not just in football.
It is remarkable how predictable the cycle of management is, even in this day of stats and data. They still come in, spend, lose, leave and the next guy does the same
And then you get some of the standouts who actually do things differently. Southgate springs to mind, although I'm not convinced he could do the same at a club. Some clubs have definitely embraced the modern way and done a lot with very little.
Meanwhile in other football news:
There's other football news? 🤣
There’s other football news? 🤣
Liverpool's best acquisitions of the last few years are an astrophysicist, a theoretical physicist and a phd in philosophy. Does that count?
Liverpool’s best acquisitions of the last few years are an astrophysicist, a theoretical physicist and a phd in philosophy. Does that count?
It goes some way to explaining to those of us who follow non Premiership teams why these conversations appear to be about another dimension
You’d have thought that being a player under ‘the best manager ever’ would have showed them how to do it and yet there’s no-one had any success to really speak of. Hughes, Bruce, Stam, Neville, Giggs, OGS, etc….. have all pretty much failed in comparison?
Bruce failed? Nah, he's an exceptional manager who was soo unlucky to be sacked by nasty old Newcastle (and Villa, Birmingham, Hull City, Sunderland, Huddersfield...). He was doing such a fantastic job on such meagre resources of >£100m (How come when MUFC fans boo the manager they aren't 'hounding out' OGS by the way?).
It's a fair point about them unthinkingly repeating Fergie training sessions and no doubt a few choice phrases they learnt along the way @MSP. You can add Robson, Ince and Robins as well.
Even sadder for ManU fans is the fact that before the match, Graeme Souness was stating what the big issues were for ManU tactically, Neville argued against it, then through the match it happened over and over again, leading to goals.
I can't really see how you can blame the midfield, especially when the midfield is basically McFred, those two are pretty much isolated during a game, nobody dropping back fast enough to make it an effective four in midfield when they need it, and defenders not holding position so they end up having to fill gaps that you can tell they aren't comfortable in.
I still can't believe how bad they were positionally yesterday, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th goals all ended with a Liverpool player completely unmarked on the left, if Shaw is going to become another central defender then who is meant to fill that gap, all i could see was Bruno Fernandes wandering nearby but not filling in, Fred would be the one you'd think doing that job, but he wasn't even in sight of them, hell the first goal had McTominay going the wrong way without the ball and Firminho completely unmarked in the middle and able to pick the easiest ball through as Maguire left his position to try and press!
Some of you are making it seem like Man U sole issues are because of their owners. How much have Man U spent?? 75% of what City have, huge wage bills, OGS had spent £400m? So how exactly are the owners the issue other than their poor appointments. Liverpool have spent far less but on the pitch are a league ahead and I doubt it's just the players.
Difference between FWG and the Glazers is that FWG appointed Klopp. Klopp is one of the best beyond doubt and has good players that do as he wants.
OGS has done ok until recently but he's lost the players. Either that or he's decided to do away with a pre match plan. eitherway not a good look.
RIP Walter Smith. Excellent manager and seemed like a gentleman too. Will be missed.
Aye, obviously biased here, but like Tommy Burns many years ago, I don't think anyone can be anything other than sad at Wattie's passing.
Yeah, he always seemed like one of the good guys. RIP
Aye real shame to hear about Smith, an utter thorn in our side. Really sad to hear of him go, never knew he was ill. Rest in peace. A giant of Scottish football.
Yeah, as a Celtic fan i disliked him as he was a true blue, same as Rangers fans disliked anything Celtic, but like always with this type of event, all sides understand the importance of the guy and his loyalty to his club at the golden era of Rangers and when Scottish football wasn't a complete joke, as always though, the die hards will bicker over this and disgrace themselves.
A classic.
Some of you are making it seem like Man U sole issues are because of their owners
I think the only real issue can be is if the owners are foisting transfers on him without him actually wanting them. Is that what's happening? The way Sancho and Donny don't get used suggests maybe it is?
A classic
Indeed not any like that now. RIP Walter
RIP Walter. Old School.
Didn't see him in happy times at Goodison tbh, it was an abysmal period for the club - but Walter always had a lot of class and integrity. Did his best under straitened circumstances, being messed around by a clown of an owner, but he never made a show over it.
If you get a chance have a look at Aaron Ramsdale's save against Leicester. Bit of a worldy.
If you get a chance have a look at Aaron Ramsdale’s save against Leicester. Bit of a worldy.
And there were a couple more outstanding saves from Ramsdale which are worthy of watching. Arsenal starting to look like a team that could get into the top 4 - a huge change from a few months ago when Arteta's head was being called for.
manu front line with combined age of 70 😀
Can't remember, was Harry Kane worth £150 million or £200 million, i forget ;o)
shocking from the spuds !
Nuno not long for the job at this rate.
Kane is having a shocker (along with the rest of them)
Kane left in the summer. He just left his body behind.
Some Morinhoesque bus parking from Ole. Not necessarily a bad thing. 3 smash and grab goals. 3 centre halfs, wingbacks McFred at the back probably marks the way forward. It probably won't work in Europe and the likes of City and a few others will cut them apart but it'll probably be enough to keep his job and finish respectabky. Maybe Fergie took training when he was at the ground for his 'suit fitting'. If Man U actually want to move forward they have to send that guy on a permanent round the world goodwill tour, never being within 1000 mike's of where they are playing or training.
And there were a couple more outstanding saves from Ramsdale which are worthy of watching.
Which ones were they? Because the save from the free kick is the one I and the media are talking about.
Just heard a man u fan on 5 live saying that Ole has turned it round.
And I thought Scottish fitba fans were optimists! 🤣🤣🤣
Ole will do ok if they go back to their plan of trying to keep it tight and hope one of their class strikers does something brilliant. It will never win them titles though and probably requires Ronaldo to press to be really effective, which isn't going to happen.
Heh heh. If you could pick any side to play needing a win, it’d be Spurs wouldn’t it?
If Man U actually want to move forward they have to send that guy on a permanent round the world goodwill tour
There was an article in yesterday’s Guardian saying exactly that.
Just heard a man u fan on 5 live saying that Ole has turned it round
I take it he’d been smoking crack?
Well at least Ole seems to have figured out that keeping the odd defender stationed in your own half might not be a bad idea from time to time.
I was amazed that we kept a clean sheet. But then we were playing against Spurs, and Harry Kane who seems to spend most of his time just lozzing about around the centre circle. Somebody should remind him he’s meant to be a striker, not a holding midfielder. I wonder how Levy feels now about his decision to put a stop to his departure? He looks like he’d rather be anywhere else in the world than in the opposition box, wearing a Spurs shirt
He looks like he’d rather be anywhere else in the world than in the opposition box, wearing a Spurs shirt
And if I was in the market for a striker, that might me look for someone else.
His £200m valuation might have gone down just a touch this season.
I don't think Kane enjoyed losing Mourinho, then not getting the move, i can't believe the difference in him this season, when Mourinho came in he added that extra drive into his game, where he'd press with a purpose, now he doesn't seem to have that, Son does seem to be doing the same, but without his strike partner doing the same it's not helping either.
As for ManU, they changed their tactics to what every pundit told them to do, when they lined up the way they did i thought they'd hired Souness as a coach, as he'd said 5-3-2 and Cavani to counterattack, the big test for Ole is next Saturday, where they will have to do this tactic against a young, fast team that has world class players in each area.
Also worth remembering that if Roberto had just held his line a bit better spurs would have gone 1-0 up and i think we'd be talking about a different result today.
I think Levy should think about why he had to get rid of pochettino at the first blip in form.
My Spuds mates hated mourinho due to his ties with Chelsea.
Think Tottenham have real issues with their team, Mourinho was never the right manager for the club, he did get some players firing again, but in the main a lot just didn't fit into his system, Pochettino did well, but he was on the downturn when he left.
Nuno is on a loser as well, his style also doesn't work well with the fans, the moment he subbed Moura kind of summed up what the fans are thinking just now.
Other than his first spell at Chelski, have any clubs fans not hated having Maureen as manager?
His ‘style’ of bus-parking (anti-) football and constant graceless and antagonistic post-match whining is spirit-crushingly depressing when you have to endure it every week
Yep, used all charisma up in the Chelsea first spell.
Also worth remembering that if Roberto had just held his line a bit better spurs would have gone 1-0 up and i think we’d be talking about a different result today.
The outcome of many games would be very different if goals were allowed to stand when the player is a mile offside.
Ronnie would have had a second straight after the break, for a start
Spurs were just really Spursy and the scoreline reflected the match. De Gea had nothing to do. Does anyone know what position Kane is actually meant to be playing? Because he certainly doesn’t appear to
It’s difficult to see how Nuno turns this around as the players don’t look interested.
Can we play you every week? 😃
Does anyone know what position Kane is actually meant to be playing? Because he certainly doesn’t appear to
M11 3FF?
Just catching up with the other games on MOTD and what a performance that was by Ramsdale. A goalkeeping masterclass.
Palace look like a completely different side too under Viera
From the Guardian comments 😂
Premier League Managers! Feeling the stress and strain of the World's Greatest League™?Then go for a relaxing stay at the recently opened Tottenham Hotspur Stadium where the experienced team will make your trip an enjoyable one. Allow your defenders a well-earned break and your forwards to chance to revitalise themselves. Check out the world class beer and search for the mythical room of cheese. Leave all your troubles and return home with three points.Book now. Nuno and the team are waiting to welcome you!
Just catching up with the other games on MOTD and what a performance that was by Ramsdale. A goalkeeping masterclass.
Was superb, not just the "big" save - he got a lot of chances to improve his keeping skills at his previous club, and will prove to be a great signing if he stays fit. Arsenal's defence will see he keeps his eye in.
Lol grum. Two terrible managerial appointments since Poch left. Good to see the fans having a go at Levy yesterday, their decline from Champions League finalists a couple years ago is on him ultimately.
And if I was in the market for a striker, that might me look for someone else.
I dunno. Lukaku keeps getting more expensive despite not really getting any better over the years.
Does anyone know what position Kane is actually meant to be playing?
He is a false-false nine playing as a double bluff withdrawn 10.
For PSG.
Huge relief for Leeds after a scrappy 2-1 win at Norwich with both sides showing a lack of confidence and some poor individual performances. Hopefully the win will increase confidence and be a platform to get our season going properly and away from the relegation zone.
MOT
It was a good, entertaining end-to-end match, that. Though it definitely felt like a Championship level game (not necessarily a bad thing). You can see why they’re both struggling.
This West Ham v Villa game is pretty good too.
How the hell was that forearm smash not a red card too? He just clothes-lined him! 😳
They should be down to nine men