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Everton have no plan do they,
The guys that wrote the soccernomics book looked at that. New !anger comes in, buys a bunch of players, fails to produce, gets canned , next manager comes in buys a bunch, lather, rinse, repeat. It's why wage bill correlates with success and transfer market spend correlates with nothing, except spending a lot of money.
Everton did the things you should never do - they brought in some guys who had had one-off success, like the scout from Leicester, have them a lot of money and off they went. Didn't work, appoint new people, give them no money, didn't work, appoint new people. Although to be fair the last guy did well but shot off to Real at the first opportunity, I don't know if they were aware when they hired him that was the plan or if he pulled the rug out.
Getting Rafa is a good start. He's done well with player selection so far, give him the time he needs. Essentially City gave Pep control and as much time as he wanted. Everton under Rafa won't play the attractive game the fans like but it'll be effective.
United are the grandmasters of the headless chicken attitude to transfers (Sanchez?), focussing mainly on replica shirt sales rather than how a player might actually fit in to any team
Hence having two 36 year old number 7’s
As for plans? Give it to Bruno is about as far as we got on that score for the last year or so. Maybe Pogba might even turn up this week
How many times do we have to prove that occasionally throwing money at the problem isn’t an answer
Last weekend it would have been nice to have a defence that wasn’t ball-watching in the other half when we got hit on the counter
What exactly were you all doing up there lads? Nor creating any goalscorering opportunities, that’s for sure
Anyone else dislike international breaks?
As a Newcastle United fan and former season ticket holder I've wrestled with this since Thursday. I've written and deleted a reply to @binners and others but I think the always excellent nufc.com website puts it far eloquently than I can:
In terms of the support, many are in the Anybody but Mike club currently; those promised riches from Saudi Arabia almost a side issue to bidding good riddance of the sandshoe salesman and his cronies.
That will recede though as the incomers begin to flex their muscles - and the new era brings challenges for the support. Changing the stadium name for instance and seeing just what the new lot deem to be a practical level of fan consultation and communication.
Others are more than uncomfortable with the track record of those promising to invest in the club and the region in terms of abhorrent human rights abuses and domestic criminal legislation.
To that - and sports washing accusations - we don't pretend to have the answers, but share those misgivings, regardless of the fact that the occupants of Buckingham Palace and Downing Street seem not to.
In a perfect world we'd not be owned by Sports Direct or PIF and not be called upon as football fans to make moral judgements, but this seems to be the reality of the Premier League in 2021.
A change of ownership has come too late for some of those fans who have walked away because of the path that football has taken, not just on Barrack Road.
And while calls for Premier League transparency have receded markedly in NE postcodes, the fan-led review that Nadine Dorres and the DCMS are tasked with remains important - unless we're happy to pull up the drawbridge now apparently sitting at the top table.
Have a ponder about where you'll stand if and when European Super League returns and the NUFC badge appears on the proposals. There will be a cost for what we stand to gain.
Separation may have been proven to the satisfaction of the football authorities at least in terms of the new owners, but achieving that among the fanbase will be a more elongated process.
If nothing else though, the reset button has been pressed, something that we privately never thought would happen.
It remains to be seen what lies ahead for this club, but bidding farewell to the days of ticking over is a genuine cause for celebration.
Of course this isn't just everyone's favourite basket-case Premier league club. Perhaps Man U fans should Google 'Saudi Telecom' and their 12 year relationship with their club before scrambling to the moral high ground?
Fans be fans using anything and everything at their disposal to put shit on rivals. This is ‘tradition’ and has little real impact.
FFP, ESL, fit and proper, oligarchs and petro-ball are the born from and the responsibility of clubs and game authorities and it is them that are wholly culpable. And when they whine it’s only because they’re not the ones cashing in in that particular transaction.
Perhaps Man U fans should Google ‘Saudi Telecom’ and their 12 year relationship with their club before scrambling to the moral high ground?
I know we’ve all been taking the piss, but I doubt you’ll find any Man Yoo fans seriously claiming any moral high ground. Not with the morality-free parasites we have as owners. They’d take the money of genocidal mass-murderers in a heartbeat
If anything we’re just jealous that you’ll now have owners who want to pour money into a club rather than treat it as a personal cash machine
Anyone else dislike international breaks?
England v Andorra, what a pointless match. It can't even be a good experience for Andorra to be thrashed all the time.
But not to worry Wenger is getting his revenge on club football sorting out the international calendar.
Anyone else dislike international breaks?
I've been enjoying the CONCACAF stuff. Mexico was not doing well in their game the other day, really off the pace and disorganized. Their fans have figured out that if they break out in homophobic chants, the refs will stop the game. Which gives Mexico the chance to regroup and rethink their strategy. Then they came out and played much better got back into it. Sure, they end up with empty stadium games, but since the just got a two match order dropped to one, why not risk it?
I get it @binners. I live in the north-west now so get plenty ear-ache off Man U supporting mates. Feels very much like the Glazers' cash cow. The share sale being the latest cunning rouse. Selling when shares peaked following the Ronaldo hype. If they'd spent their budget on a decent manager rather than some vanity signing, you might have stood a chance this season.
Breaks: I love the world cup etc but just as the season is only a month old it all stops.
Anyone else dislike international breaks?
I’d be quite happy if there was never another game of international football ever played again
Interrupting the ‘proper’ football just so that your star striker can sustain an injury that’ll put him out for the rest of the season while playing some pointless friendly against Macadonia
I liked Fergies attitude where all United players developed phantom injuries in the days leading up to the international break only to miraculously recover for the following week
phantom injuries
Yea Roy Keane being a prime example. 62 caps in 15 years. Not sure it would have worked with Ronaldo though.
That wasn’t Engerland though. I think the attitude of most United players and fans was that after the way Becks and Phil Neville were treated by the knuckle-dragging racist thugs that constitute the Engerland support, they can **** right off!
I certainly wouldn’t waste 90 minutes of my life watching Engerland v whoever tonight
I watched the ROI take apart the mighty Azerbaijan. The Green Giant has woken at last. Jeez this beer is strong.
As a Scotland and Aberdeen fan I love an international break. The game tonight was a proper rollercoaster of a match. Must be boring as hell watching England, I'd rather have the highs and lows of watching Scotland than the flat line that is watching England.
the attitude of most United players and fans was that after the way Becks and Phil Neville were treated by the knuckle-dragging racist thugs that constitute the Engerland support, they can **** right off!
How many of Beckham's 115 caps came after the effigies?
90 odd % at least I should think. He broke into United’s first team after Euro 96.
It’s worth watching the Class of 92 to see the huge effect that the FA throwing Becks and Neville to the wolves had on both of them personally, and how Fergie and the staff at OT were left to pick up the pieces that the Engerland set up didn’t give a toss about
It was an absolute disgrace, and marked something of a deterioration in relations, to say the least.
Club before country, every ****ing time I’m afraid. As it should be.
It’s worth watching the Class of 92
I'll take your word for it. I'd rather watch Real Kashmir with Davie Robertson.
Cheers fella. I’ll give that a viewing.
Best football doc by miles is ‘Sunderland Til I Die’. An absolute car crash!
Class of 92 is actually a good watch just to see the difference between then and now. When they were breaking into the first team the only one who owned a car was Nicky Butt. He had a Ford Orion which he had a massive steering wheel lock on because he still lived at his mums in Gorton
If you played for the first team for over 30 times you got the loan of a Honda Prelude, who were a club sponsor. Becks got the piss taken out of him for being a flash git because he’d splashed out and payed the extra to have a leather interior.
Compare that to now when some bench-warmer at a mid-table club is on a hundred grand a week
One of my best mates is Sunderland born and bred, former season ticket holder (before he moved to Manchester) and couldn’t watch more than the first 20 minutes as he was absolutely apoplectic at the comedic mismanagement on display
Sunderland born, Sunderland bred, strong in the arm, thick in the head.
Odd that, as I've heard a Berkshire version of that piece of prose.
Berkshire born... You get the picture.
I can’t imagine the good people of Berkshire will warrant too much inclusion on a thread about football 😃
I can’t imagine the good people of Berkshire will warrant too much inclusion on a thread about football 😃
If the current theme is mismanagement by foreign owners with dubious backstories, I think we've every right to be included.
Club before country, every ****ing time I’m afraid. As it should be.
Been thinking about this. I think most of the fans who follow their country are supporters of the smaller teams that rarely win anything, so watching your country is a change, almost a relief. As a Man Utd fan I'd have thought you could relate to that?
Fair point 😂
As a United fan, the main problem with internationals is watching the other Paul Pogba turn up and be absolutely brilliant for France, then we have to watch his lazy, surly twin go through the motions at Old Trafford the following week
Best football doc by miles is ‘Sunderland Til I Die’
Here's me thinking it was Netflix's best sitcom. That Metfen character was brilliantly depicted.
I have to admit. It would be quite amusing if Newcastle got relegated this season.
Might be possible. They’ve got a few good players (Wilson, Dubravka, Saint-Maximim) so a couple of injuries could see them in bother. That, and the rest of squad downing tools as they know they’ll be shipped out when the big signings arrive. Depends if they can sign anyone in January I guess - and if they’re in a relegation fight it may be less attractive.
Salah's goal against Watford was ridiculously good but what about that pass for Mane's goal? 😍
Incredible skills - he's on fire at the moment.
I have a feeling that Newcastle would let Bruce reach the 1000 games and then...but 8 million pay off might ease the pain.
You were right Caher. I'd quite like to see Newcastle go down TBH, would be quite hilarious.
I liked Bruce as a bloke, seems just a decent human being and he got too much abuse but I'm glad he's gone as a manager.
Just need to find a battler who can polish a turd and buy the 'right' players in January for a relegation battle. Not sure Mbappe and Couhtinio are the best fit at the moment 🙂
When are you expecting him back then?
I wonder how big Bruce’s pay off was?
Was already a tough position for Bruce with the fans, the owners and the finances at the time. I'm not convinced he did a bad job.
That said, like most British mangers, he was a bit lacking in terms of style, creative football, flair. All the British guys seem to go more for a Sam Allardyce style of play than a Pep Guardiola style. I don't know why that maybe. Maybe to do with the players they have available to them or a long term inbuilt system in their heads. But there's no real shock that foreign managers seem to do better imo
Newcastle fans have treated Bruce like absolute shit, he's done a decent job for them. Horrible way to see out your 1000th game - glad he's getting a hefty payout.
I know this is a biking website but come on? Bruce has a career as a Championship/lower prem manager and was appointed by an absent landlord of an owner on handsome terms, primarily tasked with keeping the club in the league with the minimum of investment. Whilst he did this (and last season ended with a good run, largely thanks to a loanee's goal spree to elevate us to a false position of 12th - amongst very poor competition) the football itself was the worst I can recall in 35 years of watching Newcastle United. Inheriting one of the tightest defences in the league under Rafa, in less than 2 seasons we have the worst goals conceded record and it's not as is we have scored many. He was well out of his depth, 20 years behind the curve tactically, and frankly he has 8 million reasons to put up with the grief he has had. Slagging off fans and repeating the mantra of 'just ticking along' hasn't helped his cause. Bruce was the figurehead and embodiment of the purgatory of the Ashley years. He was a stooge for the fat shopkeeper and for that reason alone, Tyneside will celebrate his departure. Onwards and upwards.
Massive sense of entitlement right there ^^^^
the football itself was the worst I can recall in 35 years of watching Newcastle United
Wow! Worse even, than when Big Sam was manager?
He was a stooge for the fat shopkeeper and for that reason alone, Tyneside will celebrate his departure. Onwards and upwards.
Good luck getting anyone decent to manage/play for you who isn't just there to get another massive payday from the bone-sawing guys.
I used to like Newcastle as a club but the way the fans have wholeheartedly embraced the Saudi cash with not a murmur of concern is gross.
Newcastle fans have treated Bruce like absolute shit,
Agreed, but far worse fates than the sack have befallen those who displease the new owners 😉
Yup Jonathan Wilson had better not go after the new manager like he has Ole at Old Trafford or they'll be getting out the bone-saw again...
Are we taking bets on when the first pundit goes missing?
I fear for Robby Savage
I'll hand deliver the invite to the Saudi embassy for a 'chat' myself!
I was thinking the same about Steve McManomanomanoman
He’s bound to end up on ‘The List’ the first time Newcastle play Liverpool 😂
The Newcastle fans treated Bruce quite badly IMO he bore a lot of the anger that should have been directed at Ashley (and even that is based on some kind of utopian history that doesn't resemble reality).
Newcastle need to go through 3 or 4 evolutions before they get to where their fans think they should be.
1st evolution to a team not battling safety and comfortably mid table.
2nd to the teams competing for top 7
3rd into the top 4
4th competing for the title
Sorry kids. Not biting. You know full well that 99% of our fans aren't so deluded. A manager who can organise 11 people on some grass would be a massive first step. Mid table next season would represent an acheivement. And before you start a gofundme for Brucey, why don't you ask Villa or Palace fans if they'd have him back? I'm sensing some Man U nostalgia in your flimsy defence of him.
All the British guys seem to go more for a Sam Allardyce style of play than a Pep Guardiola style. I don’t know why that maybe.
Bruce, Allardyce, Moyes, Pearson, Dyche, Pulis were all defenders at a time when being able to play offside and shout instructions demonstrated you had a brain in your skull.
I guess Steve will beheading home around now then.
Bruce, Allardyce, Moyes, Pearson, Dyche, Pulis were all defenders at a time when being able to play offside and shout instructions demonstrated you had a brain in your skull.
Which demonstrates my point to a great extent. Why are they getting these jobs? The roundabout they're on of crappy job and performance with a big payoff. Is it because defenders make good leaders and leaders make managers?
No idea. They played at a time when you could pass it back to your keeper and he could pick it up! At the time, tactically I think British teams were 20+ plus years behind a lot of European nations. Fortunately, people like Graham Potter and Eddie Howe are as good as many non-British contemporaries.
Wow! Worse even, than when Big Sam was manager?
Yes. I once went to Bolton to watch us play there. A team Allardyce had only recently left. I thought that was the worst game of top flight football I have ever witnessed. But at least you could see Allardyce's teams had a very clear tactic and were well trained - albeit, it wasn't pretty. I honestly couldn't tell you what style of play a Bruce team has. After the Spurs defeat he gave them 2 days off.
They covered this in depth on Five Live on Monday night. No way will Newcastle be able to use their money immediately, the players that that money buys aren't the ones you need for a relegation battle, which is what this season will be.
They're going to have to overpay on mercenaries (players and possibly manager) to keep them in the PL next next. They might be able to convince some to join for 'the project' but for that you need a vision, probably a Director of Football or maybe a manager prepared for that journey.
Then once they have secured that, in the summer they need to identify their real rivals - which are not immediately the top three or their international equivalents. It's the clubs battling for European places, 4th to 8th or so.
When Man City got the big Emirati investment, they went after, Arsenal, Everton and Villa. Barry, Milner, Toure, Lescott, Adebayor....... and then that creates the backbone that the big names can then make a difference in.
There is a blueprint and clearly it works, but it's not an immediate return. I wonder what odds you can get on a NUFC PL title this decade?
I guess Steve will beheading home around now then.
Didn't get the credit it deserves 🙂
Newcastle are at the start of a long journey, they will have to slowly build up the team, i note that other teams have outvoted them to allow sponsors to have links to the owners, so panic is already there from a lot of teams, the financial fair play rules are useful, but when used like they are, they really do protect the big 6 clubs over the rest these days.
Will be interesting to see how NUFC go about their business now, but expect them to struggle to break into the top 4 in the near future, they've also got the lack of being near London to cope with when trying to bring in bigger players.
Wow! Worse even, than when Big Sam was manager?
Far worse. Benitez's team wasn't much better to watch but were at least hard to beat and had the best defence outside the top 6 in his final season with a net profit in 3 years. Bruce has a net spend of over £110m and has the worst defence in the league this season
Spot on @theotherjonv. No one seriously expects Mbappe or Haarland. I'd take Milner as someone who would set standards and can organise.
Aren’t the rumours that they’re initially targeting Lingard and Van De Beek from Old Trafford?
Bruce has a net spend of over £110m and has the worst defence in the league this season
You’ve clearly not seen many United games this season then? Our defence is woeful and cost a hefty chunk more than that
Steve Bruce to the Telegraph after leaving Newcastle:
“I think it might be my last job. It has been very, very tough. To never really be wanted, to feel that people wanted me to fail & saying I would fail, that I was useless, a fat waste of space, a tactically inept cabbage head”.
I used to like Newcastle as a club but the way the fans have wholeheartedly embraced the Saudi cash with not a murmur of concern is gross.
Funny how the burden of maintaining morality in football and resisting the power of billionaires now falls solely on the shoulders of toon fans, rather than those of Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool et al before them. That ship sailed 20 years ago I'm afraid. But now that Newcastle have joined the billionaire owners club (Ashley didn't count) it's hilarious to see the frothing from pundits and fans/owners of other clubs because they're worried they might miss out on a champions league place. Bloody hypocrites the lot of 'em.
To be fair Daz, there are different levels of morality.
Much as I dislike the Glazers (said with suitable understatement) as far as I’m aware they’ve never dismembered a journalist, chopped anyone’s head off or launched an indiscriminate bombing campaign against a civilian population
S’all relative innit?
Well no people including me complain plenty about all the other owners too. But I'm not aware that any of them have literally crucified anyone lately.
Football is a dirty business but it just got significantly dirtier and no amount of whataboutery can dilute that fact.
But your club is happy to take £m's from Saudi Telecom over the past 12 years? Ok then. Despite the trophy signings and a returning poster boy, Man U have been on a downward trajectory for a while now, so I guess I understand your paranoia.
I’m not defending our owners. They’re a bunch of ****s
Blimey… you don’t half get tetchy about your new murderers 😉
But your club is happy to take £m’s from Saudi Telecom over the past 12 years
Oh look, whataboutery.
No one is squeaky clean but Man U fans aren't the ones in the stadium celebrating bone-saw guy's right hand man like he's the second coming. Does it not leave even the slightest bad taste in your mouth?
The sportswashing has begun already Steve Bruce's son was on 5 Live saying his dad had met the new owners and they were 'great people'. 🤢
I'd argue 99% of last weekend was about ridding ourselves of the fat shopkeeper. It was a celebration of that. Of course I'm very uncomfortable with our links to the Saudi regime as any right-minded person should be but come on, don't expect any clubs fans to be morale guardians on geo-politics when their own government sees fit to enter into billions of pounds worth of arms contracts with the same people. You can't help who support can you? At least where I come from.
S’all relative innit?
Last time I looked the rulers of Abu Dhabi were hardly handwringing liberal bed-wetters? And you do realise that the financiers and shady offshore hedge funds and banks which facilitate the deals to take over the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool are the same who also do arms deals (among other things) for the likes of Saudi Arabia? And of course russian gansters are just fluffy playboys who like driving ferarris around Kensington.
The point is that football sold its soul long ago and it's all intimiately, and incestuously connected. It's the not the fault of Newcastle fans any more than it is Man Utd/City/Liverpool/Chelsea fans, so to see fans of those latter clubs pointing the finger at newcastle fans as if they have some moral superiority is, quite frankly, bollocks.
We all know what's at play here (present company excepted, I have no doubt you guys are as concerned about human rights as I am), and it's not human rights or worries about Yemen. The other clubs just don't want someone else nudging them out of the champions league and other gravy trains.
You can’t help who support can you?
You can help whether or not you give rapturous ovations to the right hand man of a murderous dictator who strings up headless bodies in the streets though.
What our government does is awful too, but did your mother never teach you two wrongs don't make a right?
We all know what’s at play here (present company excepted, I have no doubt you guys are as concerned about human rights as I am), and it’s not human rights or worries about Yemen. The other clubs just don’t want someone else nudging them out of the champions league and other gravy trains.
This part is true but this kind of 'well everything ****ed already so who cares if it gets worse' attitude is very helpful to the rich and powerful isn't it.
You can help whether or not you give rapturous ovations to the right hand man of a murderous dictator who strings up headless bodies in the streets though.
If you really think that's what we toon fans were doing (not me I might add, I was taking my daughter to her music lesson when it was announced) then you really should have a bit of a think. It's simple snobbery.
This part is true but this kind of ‘well everything **** already so who cares if it gets worse’ attitude is very helpful to the rich and powerful isn’t it.
It is, and I look forward to fans of the current top six clubs joining with newcastle fans to call for an end to billionaires in football and a return to the old days of corrupt local industrialists going on an ego-trip to avoid paying their taxes. Hell if we're lucky we might even get back to the good ol days of amphetamine fuelled hooliganism and city centres being no-go areas on match days.
They literally gave Yasir al-Rumayyan a massive rapturous round of applause in the stadium, what are you on about?
Were they applauding the actions of an Saudi politician, or just the person who finally rid them of Ashley? I'll say again, why is it only Newcastle fans who should take a stand against billionaires in football?
But they probably did something really bad to get executed eh?
When Ali al-Nimr was 17, he says he was suddenly rammed by a Saudi Arabian government vehicle while riding his motorcycle through the eastern district of Qatif.
What happened next would change his life forever.
Al-Nimr was taken to a local police station, where he was beaten so badly he had to be transferred to a hospital, his lawyer said.
Initially, al-Nimr was hit with relatively minor charges related to his participation in the widespread 2011 to 2012 Arab Spring demonstrations against Shia repression in the eastern part of the country, where most of the population resides.
But when his uncle, the reformist Shia cleric and protest leader Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr, was arrested, prosecutors ramped up their case. Instead of minor infractions related to the protests, al-Nimr now stood accused of joining a terrorist organization, throwing Molotov cocktails and arson.
After being moved to an adult prison at the age of 18, he confessed to a string of crimes under extreme torture, according to his lawyer, Taha al-Hajji. At trial, al-Nimr rescinded his confession, but this was ignored by the presiding judge, according to al-Hajji.
Then, in May 2014, al-Nimr was sentenced to death by "crucifixion," contrary to Article 37 of the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child, which states that no individual should be sentenced to death for crimes committed under the age of 18. Saudi Arabia is one of the 196 countries that has ratified the CRC.
Keep going with the whataboutery Daz, it's super convincing.
Were they applauding the actions of an Saudi politician, or just the person who finally rid them of Ashley?
Well, it's the same person, so.....
You're really doing some impressive mental gymnastics to try and justify this aren't you.
it’s super-convincing.
It should be, because trying to paint Newcastle fans as murderous dictator apologists is daft. As slowpuncheur said football fans are no more guilty of this than the rest of us are for the actions our own government in support of regimes like Saudi Arabia. All your doing is falling into the cliche of football tribalism and all the sillyness that goes with it. It's just football. That's all the fans care about, and all they will ever care about.
It should be, because trying to paint Newcastle fans as murderous dictator apologists is daft.
That's exactly what you are doing on this thread.
If Liverpool got taken over by the Saudi government tomorrow I would just give up on football entirely. Show me the people John W Henry has massacred and tortured and I'll do so right now.
As slowpuncheur said football fans are no more guilty of this than the rest of us are for the actions our own government in support of regimes like Saudi Arabia.
I and many others criticise our government for this all the time. I've taken part in protests against it. But god forbid we criticise football fans for literally cheering for them.
It's a black mark against the city - I used to enjoy visiting but I will think twice now.
It’s a black mark against the city – I used to enjoy visiting but I will think twice now.
??
You do realise that despite all the romantic bollocks spouted by the football media et al that Newcastle football club is not the same as the city of Newcastle? Most people don’t really give a toss about what goes on at St James Park. It's just football, and that's all it will it ever be.
Bit less than a quarter of the city's population were in the stadium cheering for Al-Rumayyan the other day - never mind you and others on here doing the Saudis PR for them.
Bit less than a quarter of the city’s population
Oh FFS if you've just googled 'population of Newcastle Upon Tyne' and found the number 268,064 (as I just did) then you should consider that's just the metropolitan area. It doesn't even include North or South Tyneside, let alone Northumberland and County Durham. Needless to say Newcastle fans come from all over the North East and beyond rather than within a few miles of the ground. It's a bit like saying man utd fans only come from inside the M60.
And besides, there this.. https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/newcastle-upon-tyne-population
Anyway, this is a really silly argument. I have no more liking for Saudi Arabian billionaires than you do, but it's not going to stop me watching football (unless they hire another Joe Kinnear as the manager). I doubt I'll be going to any matches, I stopped doing that in protest at Chris 'man of the people' Hughton being sacked and since then realised it's a waste of £40. However if it it gets the fans of other clubs this riled then maybe it's not a bad thing. It'll certainly be amusing to watch the wailing if all the money actually results in Newcastle knocking one of the current top six off their perches.
Newcastle United aren't popular in Newcastle. Ok then...