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This is really a call for advice about how to deal with out of control children that aren’t your own and whether or not I should continue to bite my lip.
I have just spent a lovely bank holiday weekend with my Sister and brother in law and their daughter.
The problem I have is that my niece is a major Spoilt, pain in the arse, always lying and constantly playing the "I’ve done that before you, I’ve got that but bigger" anon. She has now boundaries as my sister and brother in law never discipline her and spend all their time running around after her, pandering to her every need. She really isn’t a very nice person to be in the company of. This obviously has a really bad influence on my two boys.
Does anyone else have similar problems with their kid’s friend or cousins and any ideas how to approach it?
Any help would be good.
p.s. I’m not saying I’m the perfect father but am trying to raise well disciplined and mannered children who know the difference between right and wrong.
I think you've got a great opportunity there. Treat her exactly the same as you would treat your own kids if they were doing or saying the same thing. Your own boys will respect you because they can see exactly what she's up to - it will outrage and embarrass your sister (which is always worth doing) and you'll probably end up being the favourite uncle. Because you'll be the one she knows she can go to when she needs the truth.
wee in her shoes/ bombers, it's the only way she'll learn
Thats generally what happens. I tell her off but then she goes running to her mum and dad and gets it over ruled. Is this just a case of exteremly weak parenting?
I also end up spending a week trying to get all the bad habits drummed out of my kids.
My youngest niece is the same. I get round it by not spending any time with my youngest niece. Or her parents.
It helps that I don't like her parents either.
Yup - Avoid them if it really bugs you.
Curiously one of my nieces is exactly the same. 11 going on 21, only speaks when she wants something.
Best thing to do is totally ignore the little sh*t 😈
I can fully sympathise. We live in an area with a higher-than-average incidence of middle class, Guardian reading, lentil chomping, yoghurt-knitters. Some of them are so achingly PC and liberal (read: wishy-washy and spineless) that they regard any discipline whatsoever as tantamount to beating their kids with sticks.
It drives me up the wall at times. Some of the parents of the kids mine go to school with will just sit there and watch their little darlings run amok while smiling sweetly at them.
In effect they end up producing kids who are probably more anti-social and more of a menace than the offspring of the 'underclass' who they love to look down their noses at. They're just better dressed
Make them watch the Charlie and the Chocolate factory film that was on over Easter weekend. "Daddy I want a squirrel....." oh dear.
Caveat - I have no kids
Can you explain to your kids so they won't copy her? Can you talk to your sis about it and make it "my house my rules"
Let your kids run riot at her house?
Make them watch the Charlie and the Chocolate factory film that was on over Easter weekend. "Daddy I want a squirrel....." oh dear.
Thing is, she won't see owt wrong with that, or have the self awareness to apply it to her own behaviour.
What - she wouldn't get it even when the squirrel taps her head and then throws her down the hole? It's not exactly a well hidden parable is it?
There's always the "what wants, never gets" phrase for those that constantly ask for stuff.
Impossible scenario really. If her parents won't discipline her then you can't do much other than tell your kids that her behaviour isn't acceptable and keep on top of it if they follow her lead.
Or as suggested, stop seeing them and let the parents know why if you think it really is that bad...
Had to tell some parents to calm their child in a restaurant last night. Little turd was jumping up and down on the chair behind me. Parents were less than pleased and I hope the little **** got his arse skelped when he got home 8)
Some very good suggestions and comparisons. Especially regards to the lack of parental discipline in society. Its so hideous when parents look on as if the sun shines out of their children’s arse and the whole “My little Johnny has to learn for himself" attitude.
The trouble is, I actually feel a bit sorry for her because its not really her fault that she is turning out the way she is. God knows what she will be like when she hits her teens. Surely there will be massive issues between parents and child. She already completely disrespects them and treats them as her own personal slaves.
She really isn’t a very nice person to be in the company of.
Regardless of who they are, I tend to stay out of the way of these type of people.
Your house, your rules.
If it's not at your house then let your sister and husband deal with it in their own way.
How old are your boys? If they're old enough you could take them to one side and explain that just because their cousin gets away with it, they won't.
If it's at your house and your sister/bil overrules you tell them it's not on - if they want to visit then everyone goes by your rules.
The trouble is, I actually feel a bit sorry for her because its not really her fault that she is turning out the way she is
Ditto... Growing up like that tends to mean that later life is not much fun as their expectations can never really be met. Spoiling kids (hard as it is not to - I'm well aware how hard it is to say no to them sometimes) is for the benefit of the parents, not the kids IMO...
i have to agree with the person that said deal with the other person's kids like you treat your own (the mrs says i'm a disaplinarian, i think i'm just being realistic and No means No)....
i do that with my little boy's cousins, and she definately respects me more than her grandparents and parents, in fact i'm cool uncle matt
Yip - in your house they go by your rules. Otherwise let them get on with it and ensure you treat your boys as you normally do. Their behaviour doesn't reflect on you unless you are responsible for her. As and when you are responsible for her, treat her as you would your own.
At the end of the day be happy you know how to treat your kids and don't worry about other people.
My children are 6 and 7 and my niece is 6. Funny thing was she was going around all weekend saying that she was 7. Was quite funny until my children picked up on it and started telling her that she was lying about her age. What a nightmare. I wasnt going to tell my children that they were wrong ( becuase they wernt) but did start to be come a problem every time she said it. Her parents obviously weren`t telling her that she was six. Is this just a control thing?
speak to the parents about your concerns and see if you can help them address this if that fails either bollock her yourself or just avoid them there is little room for compromise IMHO
Having rea dthe above have serius words with them why they letting hti sgo sound slike they are just letting her do what she wants a sit is easier than dealing iwth th econsequences. A parents job is a to make a happy adult not a child that is happy at that moment in time.
Great post by binners.
Recently experienced this in a Hove restarant. All the 40 something champagne socialists were sitting there in their cords and loafers ignoring Oscar and Tarquin with their long poncy hair run riot and generally ruin it for everyone else.
Grrrrrrrr!!!
What is the deal with disciplining in public, by the way? I don't care where I am or who is watching if the boys misbehave I pull them up on the spot even if it means embarrassing them. Apparently this is outmoded behaviour on my part and a quiet word in private to "preserve their self esteem" is the way it's done now.
Also rattling their teeth with a clap to the back of the head is a definate no no...
joolsburger - Apparently its also frowned upon to go all Josef Fritzl on them and lock them in cupboards too. I don't know what the world is bloody coming too
Fully enough Tat wink were were visiting in that exact area of the country. Must be something in the water.
What is the deal with disciplining in public, by the way? I don't care where I am or who is watching if the boys misbehave I pull them up on the spot even if it means embarrassing them. Apparently this is outmoded behaviour on my part and a quiet word in private to "preserve their self esteem" is the way it's done now.Also rattling their teeth with a clap to the back of the head is a definate no no...
The unspoken threat of a sound thrashing from my father was enough to ensure compiant behaviour when I was a child.
In reality the trashing was never actually delivered, but the thought of a skelped arse from a large irate Irish man was a suitable deterrent.
Modern parenting today seems to all about letting little Tarquin and Annabel express themself freely. "express themself" seems to amount to running about, screaming and generally being a complete nuisance. God forbid you should encounter them on a plane. If I had my way children would be in the hold with the rest of the luggage.
= STWAll the 40 something champagne socialists
Great post by binners.
No it's not. It contains some of the most crass generalisations I've seen him come out with in ages...and that's saying something.
I love children.....
......just can't eat a whole one 😈
I have two boys who are full of energy and very independent, the eldest has a friend who is entirely spoilt and comes back from that house giving me all sorts of lip and so on, these days he is just not allowed there. Peer group is a massive influence on behaviour and you have to control who your children interact with even if it's family.
Yep the "different house, different rules" one is a good lesson for the kids. Your kids may well bleat that it's unfair but hey the first rule of disciplined parenting is
"Life's unfair, get over it!"
Speaking to the parents can be more problematical as the over-indulgent parent usually takes criticism of their little johnny very personally.
Eventually though you do tend to end up avoiding them...
nothing wrong with a clip round the earole
sounds like the parents need one too
Agreed mooly I think that area more than most has a higher percentage of new age pc wishy washy parents that aspire to the life by the sea idyll.
Peer group pressure is the biggest excuse used by parents failing to make their children responsible for their own actions.
No it's not. For example peer pressure is why there was a 2 day queue for Ipad2 etc etc massive influence on the young mind as any fule kno.
I know two lots of liberal Guardian reading parents whose kids are delightful.
IMO its more likely to be the times readers - grasping aspirational types who spoil their kids.
One friend of mine has had this really come home to roost with their spoilt teenager.
I don't think that parents behavior is dictated entirely by what newspaper they read Uncle Jezzer 😉
set a staffie on her ? 😀
Id be interested to know what happened with the spoilt teenager. And the direction in which theyre heading.
I don't think that parents behavior is dictated entirely by what newspaper they read Uncle Jezzer
Ah, we see now. So you were just bullshitting earlier then?
Or do you think it's a combination of diet, hobbies, political & philosophical leanings added to one's newspaper of choice that will give us a clue to how the kids will turn out? [i]Binnersnomics[/i] we should call it.
DD I was using all the many factors to weave together, to conjure in your mind if you will, the image that I'm greeted with when picking the kids up from school. Hemp and sandals are always prominent. I believe some Independent readers are quite partial to this 'look' too
Unfortunately [i]Binnersnomics[/i] already exists. Its usually referred to as chaos theory though 😀
I believe some Independent readers are quite partial to this 'look' too
What about i readers?
They're not really a demographic as there are only 17 of them
Mooly - MemberId be interested to know what happened with the spoilt teenager. And the direction in which theyre heading.
now 17 or 18. A spoilt little princess for her childhood. Diagnosed with ADHD ( that I do not believe) spent the last few years self harming and running away from home. Mucked up school.
Parents now split and mum refused to have daughter to live with her unless she got treatment and got it together which might be the catalyst to get her back on the rails
They're not really a demographic as there are only 17 of them
In Binnersnomics, with what other group are you lumping them then? Seeing as that's your style today... 🙂
Its a very valid question DD. Given the somewhat random nature of the whole exercise, we could include them with cross-dressing communists or nazi morris dancers
*is getting annoyed with binners' refusal to bite*
I'm finishing work for a week in approximately four minutes. Short of murdering my family in front of me, nowt could upset me at the moment fella 😀
And I also like the idea of i-reading nazi-sympathising morris-dancers
I have a morning tomorrow, then Thursday off - roadie-rider here I come. Then an early morning flight to hAmsterdam for the weekend.
Mmmm...drugs.
Sounds like a dream ticket fella! I'm off up to the lakes. We should put together some new demographics for [i]Binnersnomics[/i]
I'm sure the Dam will provide a host of interesting characters
HAVE FUN 😀
Over and out y'all. WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I guess this all just highlights how challenging it is to bring kids up these days. Soem of my earlier experiences at one place I worked was that the kids were seen almost as a social accessory with the parents not really wanting to be involved the in the whole "parenting" bit of it. Farmed out to a nanny while they went to work (not specifically because they needed the money from both of them working, but more that neither of them could bear the idea of being at home all day looking after them). Haven't seen them for a long time now but those were not the ingredients for a happy childhood. Jamie's Dream School was an interesting observation on some "difficult" children, many of whom were from very middle class backgrounds. Out of control kids are not a pretty sight at all adn you can't help feeling sorry for them that unless anything dramatic happens post teenage years they are destined for very unhappy adult lives, which is pretty tragic.
I feel very fortunate that so far my kids are pretty well adjusted, well behaved and a pleasure to be with. This is largely thanks to a fantastic wife being a brilliant mother and as a family being firm on discipline and boundary setting. Have we got everything right? No, of course not, not by a long way. As a parent you always live with the concern about whether you are doing the right thing for them both now and in the long term. The evidence for us so far is that perhaps we have probably just about managed to enough of the good things to outweigh the mistakes.
Not much help with the OP but perhaps as others have suggested either limit the time you do spend with the spoiled "princess" or, for those times when you do have to be together as families, make sure your two know that the boundaries have not changed and you still expect them to behave in the way they know you expect them to. Any change to that and they will be disciplined and will reap the consequences - whatever they tend to be in your family.
I can fully sympathise. We live in an area with a higher-than-average incidence of middle class, Guardian reading, lentil chomping, yoghurt-knitters. Some of them are so achingly PC and liberal (read: wishy-washy and spineless) that they regard any discipline whatsoever as tantamount to beating their kids with sticks.
That's a very curious thing to say. I'm from an area that was higher than average middle class very locally and not quite so locally very much "lower" than middle class. It was always the local kids that were well disciplined and ordered whereas the out-of-area kids were a nightmare bunch of spoilt brats that always got their way.
How experiences can differ! Goes to show you shouldn't judge a book by its class, cover or your personal experiences.
out of control children go hand in hand with bad parenting.
people are too scared to discipline their own kids these days...
All the 40 something champagne socialists
= STW
I resent that remark. I'm 50 several.
people are too scared to discipline their own kids these days...
No they're not, just too lazy and think that parent == friend.
parent == friend
I'm surprised at how often I hear parents addressing their kids as "mate" 😕 A slippery road...
Don't get me wrong, I think that parents can be friends with their kids 🙂 But as you're well aware they clearly need to have parent as the over-riding role and ensure the two do not cross purposes.
I met a spoilt brat that was used to getting her own way and had hissy fits when she didn't get what she wanted.
Her mother had taken her away from her father at a young age and used her as a tool against him. Proper nasty little madam she was.
Problem is, I met her when she was an adult and she did all the same things to me, that her mother did to her father.
Piece of advice for anybody looking to date a "I want" type of girl... Check the mother first 🙂
I worked in a kids club during summer holidays, so many spoiled brat kids. You can easily match them up to thier parents. As others have said brattyness gets worse the older she gets. It needs nipping in the bud now, i have full sympathy for you, I've seen how one brat can be destructive to other children. In time I hope your sons see her as a brat too and stop copying her.
Mooly - have you thought about having your niece one day a week (without the parents)?
It'll be hard at first, but I think she'll really get to like the idea of rules and boundries, which is what most children need.
We have played a large part in bringing up my slightly spoilt nephew (who's father annoyingly calls him mate, as DD pointed out). He seems to really enjoy the one day a week he spends with us and all the sleepovers.
When he's with us, he has to do some easy chores, sit at the table and eat properly, say please, thankyou (basic manners in my book)and is rewarded with rides out on his bike, walks in the countryside etc.which he loves.
He's always respected us for the fact his 'treats' are not material, or money, but are more spending time with him, oh and lots of cuddles. (although at 8 years of age) he thinks he's getting too old for those.
I'm surprised at how often I hear parents addressing their kids as "mate" A slippery road...
I'm from Essex mate, it's that or geez, and as I'm expecting a daughter...
I don't know what I'd do in this situation tbh. I think if you've got your values and techniques then it's fair to use that standard when you're looking after your niece. If you aren't happy with the way your kids are treated there, then make it known subtly. Or just don't let your kids be there so much, that's not so easy though is it?
Bunnyhop!
Great words and advice. Unfortunately we live too far apart for that to happen or i would certainly relish the chance of sitting her down at the family dinner table and getting a balanced meal into her and sitting patiently till everyone had finished.
I also guess you have hit the nail on the head about the most basic of things. Please - thanks you - Pardon etc. I cant believe that some parents dont instill this in their children.
Whats more worrying is the fact that my sister isn`t doing this!
Its beyond belief.
Sounds like the problem is the sister and partner. As this is obviously upsetting you - perhaps it is time to talk to them. This might be unpleasant, but unless they accept your beliefs your relationship with them is not going to get any better
consistant law laying is the answer!
We have the same prob with our friends kids. When they play up we TELL them how it is, who is in charge and what they can't do. The shocked little ****ers quickly start acting properly as they realise they've approached a boundary. The parents look at us like we've just crapped pure gold. We never shout or smack. I suppose it's easier when your missus is 6foot and built like a concrete shitter.
My house, my rules. Sorry if thats old fashioned, but kids need defined boundaries of what is & isnt acceptable. Not talking draconian measures here by any means, & the kids know if they come round ours they can go a bit wild but that they have to reign it in when told. They accept it & have a great time when they come to ours.
I upset the Wifes Sister once, when I told her she would have to sit her youngest in the car if he carried on. My two boys arent angels, & they can be a pain sometimes, but if its a public place I wont tolerate anything that is likely to annoy other folk, however much freinds are letting their kids get away with.
DD I was using all the many factors to weave together, to conjure in your mind if you will, the image that I'm greeted with when picking the kids up from school.
Heh.. however seems to me that most middle class people I know think carefully about bringing up kids and put a lot of effort into doing it right. Most problem kids seem to come from parents who don't give much of a toss either way.