[Closed] Our language

U wot m8

If you want to plough a deep and rich furrow of absolute word w*nkery, watch any interior design/masterchef type programme....they leave no adjective unturned.

The cyclist Laura Kenny has ‘medalled’. No, she’s won a medal.

Whilst I also dislike this turn of phrase, it is perfectly valid (going back centuries) - just previously little-used.

It's all about attention sp..

Oh look. A squirrel.

Language doesn't 'have to' change. It changes. Also, 'our'?

There are better things to get upset about. Do you only speak in RP, I take it?

"Our" = the one used on this forum?

I think we may have to accept that the ship has sailed with what I call "verbising" - using nouns as verbs - some examples are "medalling" and "networking".

It is the meaningless expressions that get to me.

Delivering "at pace". What pace? Glacial pace? Steady pace? Rapid pace?

"My neighbour is off work with his mental health". Good mental health? (can I have some time off for that?) Poor mental health?

"We produce quality products". You can see where I am going with this...

‘Box set your summer’. I don’t actually know what means

here are some programmes we'd like to draw your attention to in the coming months that are serialised but you can watch them all in one go...

To be honest, Box set your summer is a bit snappier.

I've yet to see a Rabbit jump up on one leg.

Isn't it wonderful how free we are to express ourselves? One of the great things about English is how flexible it is.

It is the meaningless expressions that get to me.

Delivering “at pace”. What pace?

Sorry, you're wrong on that one. Pace is also the quality of having speed. So if you have pace you are moving quickly. This is language, not science.

@molgrips

pace noun (SPEED)

I don't like the pace of modern life.

Languages, like cultures are dynamic, they change over time to reflect the world as it changes.

or As Id have said in elizabethan times...

Language, liketh cultures art dynamic, t changeth ov'r timeth to reflecteth the w'rld as t changes

Yes there are indeed lots of things to worry about atm. But as bad driving gets to others, or bad table manners or purposely dropping of litter (which is my absolute pet hate), the bad use of grammar and as as hels says 'using nouns as verbs' is a little annoying (especially from the BBC).

Language is dynamic, get over it Grandad.

When people from South of the UK instead of saying drawing they stick an extra r after the w and change it to drawing, probably other examples

Box set....

How many years since someone last bought a DVD, let alone a 'boxed' collection of DVDs, will it be before the term 'boxed set' is totally meaningless? See also 'videoing' and the little floppy disk icon that I know means to save a file but for an entire generation is an icon depicting an object that they have never seen.

"Our language"

I suggest that you should should have written Unseraz lingua if you expect to be taken seriously.

So far as expecting better of the BBC you do realise they no longer just offer programming on the wireless don't you?

One of the most unique(*) things with 'our' language is that it has such a rich and varied history that you can find a prior example of almost any mangling of it, and thereby excuse your modern mangling on that basis.

(* - and unique = one of a kind, the clue is in the 'un' which derives from the Latin for ONE. Don't care what the dikshunary says, it's either unique or it isn't. There aren't degrees of being unique. Here endeth the grump).

‘using nouns as verbs’ is a little annoying

That's one of my favourite features of English. And it's hardly new, words like book, knife and table are all examples that have been around for longer than I've been alive.

Delivering “at pace”. What pace? Glacial pace? Steady pace? Rapid pace?

“My neighbour is off work with his mental health”. Good mental health? (can I have some time off for that?) Poor mental health?

“We produce quality products”. You can see where I am going with this…

If we agree (or maybe we don't) that the purpose of language is to be understood...I don't see the issue with any of these. Ask 100 people what they think each statement means and I reckon you'd get consensus.

U OK hun?

It's annoying, but language evolves, the effects of US and social media has sped this up more than I'd like.

 be before the term ‘boxed set’ is totally meaningless?

Given that the pictogram on the sign for a speed camera is a bellows-box type affair, i think box-set is probably here to stay for a while yet.

how using imo & atm?

Delivering “at pace”

Usually means "we're making bold changes without giving enough thought to the consequences", IME of corporate BS.

hang on.

You're complaining about "teared up" yet you wrote "I don’t actually know what means."

surely you meant to say "I do not understand the meaning of this phrase"?

I put it to you that, infact, you don't know what you are talking about, how the hell can a tree be "in green" but not "greening up"

Box set….

How many years since someone last bought a DVD, let alone a ‘boxed’ collection of DVDs, will it be before the term ‘boxed set’ is totally meaningless?

You beat me to it. "Box set" referring to a streaming service irritates the shit out of me.

Am not liking this trend of starting sentences with am. I blame WhatsApp.

I still don't know what an "eeb" is when referring to bikes. I know e bike means electric bike. But what is an "e e bike"?

Efficient electric?
Eccentric electric?
Eco electric?

Someone please tell me.

You beat me to it. “Box set” referring to a streaming service irritates the shit out of me.

You think it annoys you? Think about the poor sod sat in Netflix's server room having to take all those discs out of the boxes, load into their trays then put them back when you've finished watching your episode.

In our house we do call it the wireless for a laugh.

I’d rather listen to an album 🤔

Just to be clear, having not been university educated or even slightly clever for that matter, not once have I stated that my use of English is perfect, (spoken or written).
What I was getting across was that the BBC should know better when reading the news and their journalists should know better when writing the script, so that the listener can hear the correct use of 'our' English language (the one that we are using right now in this country).
I love accents, I love use of local sayings and phrases.
But I would rather hear correct uses on the BBC.

What aboot 'footage' used to describe video that's most likely digital?

This thread reminds me of the YouTube clip of Countdown where the woman suggests Retard as her six letter word but there was only one R available to use.

Language will never stop changing; it will continue to respond to the needs of the people who use it. So the next time you hear a new phrase that grates on your ears, remember that like everything else in nature, the English language is a work in progress.

From this link:

https://www.linguisticsociety.org/content/english-changing

so that the listener can hear the correct use of ‘our’ English language (the one that we are using right now in this country).

I think this is the problem, by we, you mean you, and you are in the minority.

The person who needs to hear the correct use of ‘our’ English language (the one that we are using right now in this country) is you.

I also wish people wouldn't drop the subject from sentences - you see that all the time on social media "looking for a babysitter please PM me TIA".

Who is looking for a babysitter? The person who made the post? Or are they looking for babysitting work?

All it needs is "I am" or "Are you" to be clear. I had to move a staff member to another job as he just couldn't grasp this concept and we had to do continual rework due to flummoxed customers.

But I would rather hear correct uses on the BBC.

Once again, with feeling, what is "our" language that you speak of?

Just to be clear, having not been university educated or even slightly clever for that matter, not once have I stated that my use of English is perfect, (spoken or written).
What I was getting across was that the BBC should know better when reading the news and their journalists should know better when writing the script, so that the listener can hear the correct use of ‘our’ English language (the one that we are using right now in this country).

Because it doesn't sound like you've studied English in any great depth to be qualified to tell us the rules (not that there are any).

dangeourbrain - in your opinion.

dangeourbrain – in your opinion.

Well not really, no.

‘Box set your summer’. I don’t actually know what means.

You don't grasp current usage. That's not the fault of current usage.

I have nothing to add regarding our language, only that as with many many many things, Calvin and Hobbes is on the money.

So the next time you hear a new phrase that grates on your ears, remember that like everything else in nature, the English language is a work in progress.

Every single phrase in those ****ing cinch adverts grates on my ears thanks to that bearded **** who can't pronounce the T from words like Bri'ain, mo'or and quali'y.

from earlier 'or purposely dropping of litter' is poor sentence construction in anyone's money

I still don’t know what an “eeb” is when referring to bikes. I know e bike means electric bike. But what is an “e e bike”?

Efficient electric?
Eccentric electric?
Eco electric?

Someone please tell me.

Sure.
You're thinking in terms of abbreviations.
'Eeb' is not an abbreviation.

Say 'Ebike' and then get rid of the 'ike'
Eb-[s]ike[/s]

eeb is what that sounds like.....a bit.
Simple, it's just not an abbreviation.

For your info, 'neeb' is now Oxford English Dictionary-defined as the accepted term for a non-ebike.
It was introduced in an attempt to stop the horrific use of 'analogue' and 'clockwork' as a description.
hth 😉

Sure.
You’re thinking in terms of abbreviations.
‘Eeb’ is not an abbreviation.

Say ‘Ebike’ and then get rid of the ‘ike’
eeb is what that sounds like…..a bit.
Simple, it’s just not an abbreviation.
hth

Absolutely, it should probably be i:b but I don't suppose that would help much.

As for neeb, I think I'll stick with "meat bike"

looking for a babysitter please PM me TIA

Is crystal clear that it's a statement.

looking for a babysitter? please PM me TIA

is an advert

Language doesn’t ‘have to’ change. It changes. Also, ‘our’?

This.

Also, ‘our’?

I think the OP means, Are!

IGMC

I think the OP means, Are!

Arrrrrrr, surely?

So the next time you hear a new phrase that grates on your ears, remember that like everything else in nature, the English language is a work in progress.

Or more correctly 'grunt, grunt, grunt, grunt, snort'. (I can't find 'stone age translator' so that's as close as I can get.)

Or more correctly ‘grunt, grunt, grunt, grunt, snort’. (I can’t find ‘stone age translator’ so that’s as close as I can get.)

Cro-makaton wasn't it?

It would be brave to assume the person can use punctuation properly, when they can't even include a subject!

looking for a babysitter please PM me TIA

I'd take 'pm me' over 'inbox me' any day.
*shudders

It would be brave to assume the person can use punctuation properly, when they can’t even include a subject!

Whilst I'm not familiar with the specifics of whatever social media I assume the post actually reads something like

hels
looking for a babysitter please PM me TIA

So it would have a subject (poster name) or are you using something where the posts are anonymous?

I also wish people wouldn’t drop the subject from sentences – you see that all the time on social media “looking for a babysitter please PM me TIA”.

I'm likely guilty of this but it's nothing to do with social media, it's a reflection of the way I speak. I correct it when I notice it but I often don't catch it.

qualified to tell us the rules (not that there are any).

There are well-established style guides.

"Could of", "Should of", "would of", I hate that yet it seems to have become the norm in facebook posts.
And, everyone seems to say "Can I get" in cafes. pubs etc. another one that annoys me!

I also wish people wouldn’t drop the subject from sentences

You (and everyone else who complains about language change) should actually put a recorder around your neck for a day or a week and then transcribe everything you say. You might find that you don't talk like a grammar book. Dropping the subject when it is obvious from context is pretty standard in conversation.

If you have inferred a (generally accurate) meaning from it then the language used has done it's job (whether you like it or not or whether you think it's 'correct' or not).

Being annoyed by it is another issue entirely and is not the fault of the language or its user.

If you have inferred a (generally accurate) meaning from it then the language used has done it’s job

Its job. No apostrophe.

If we are going after misplaced apostrophes.....

Can I also add to my list Pointless And Constant Use Of Capitals For Things That Are Not Proper Nouns? I had to advise on a privacy notice recently for work it was almost unreadable as it had so many capitals. People tend to do this when they write acronyms out in full, as if by magic that makes the words proper nouns. TIA Thanks In Advance. Hels.

There’s an awesome book on this subject by John McWhorter called Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue which is well worth checking out.

The cyclist Laura Kenny has ‘medalled’.

That's a spelling error it should read-

The cyclist Laura Kenny has ‘medlled’.

Really? In what? Tell me more. Or perhaps its just this statement of the bleedin obvious

The cyclist Laura Kenny has ‘pedalled’.

Indubitably

Random caps Erk me

Can I also add to my list Pointless And Constant Use Of Capitals For Things That Are Not Proper Nouns

I think this habit comes from many (maybe most) American newspaper headlines and therefore their writers or proof-readers. Who really should know better, but don't.

iRk

wbo - have you read the whole thread?
I never stated that I have perfect grammar, or can construct a sentence properly. I haven't had the wonderful education that all of you on here have enjoyed.
But over the many years of living on this planet I somehow expect a corporation such as the BBC could/should/would take more care in reading out news bulletins with a better grasp of the 'Queens' English.

Obviously my expectations are too high and according to one or two of you, I'm the 'only one' who feels this way.

Calling me granddad really made me laugh.

I share the distaste at the use of "our" in the thread title. It is the sort of thing one sees in Daily Mail journalism.

I am not one of you, but its still my language.

Trying not to be pedantic, but to meet the BBC mantra to inform, educate and entertain:

1/ "it's still my language" - short for it is. Its is the possessive form of it (eg: the dog slipped its lead and ran after the cat)

2/ And it's "The Queen's English" 'cos she owns it.

Note use of 'cos to show abbreviated form, which while not technically correct is perfectly understandable.

Also; not sure whether starting a sentence with 'because' is allowed. Also note how I might have slipped a subjectless sentence into the explanation.

Sentence. You still have time to edit @theotherjonv

You did edit, you swine.

who, me? :whistles:

Yep, it's one of those where I can't spell it, but once written down and re-read it just looks wrong and so I then correct it.

What about practise vs practice?

BBC English is a dialect, as is the Queen's English (that might actually be an idiolect). Both are evolving.

PractiCe the Noun comes before practiSe the Verb in the alphabet is how I remember it. Advice/advise also helps.

iRk

Indeed.

“Box set” referring to a streaming service irritates the shit out of me.

It's good to focus on things that matter.

Gratuitous asshattery irks me more, if that makes you feel any more validated?

It's hardly a serious thread really getting to the nub of the cause of the problems in the world today now, is it.

But I would rather hear correct uses on the BBC.

What is this correct use you speak of? I’m from West Yorkshire so, to me, BBC newsreaders sound incorrect.

The trees and hedges are ‘greening up’. No they are in green or becoming green.

Sprouting, that’s what they’re doing. Greening up sounds racist

Mister-P
Its job. No apostrophe

Guilty as charged (and serves me right for quickly posting from work without reading things back) but... It didn't stop you understanding what I'd written so a moot point in context.

"Greening" is definitely an established word.

The important thing with apostrophe's is to be consistent. Either use them or dont.