[Closed] OT - Everest... Been reading up on it a bit.

unfortunately money talks and average climbers pay poor but skilled climbers money to go up, which as you have stated sometimes results in there death. I can see the appeal though being at the highest point of the whole wide world. think smee might have been to base camp.

Depends what you like really, if you want a challenge, enjoy near death experiences then yep its great.

Do some thing every day that scares you it will make you feel so much more alive !

have a friend who did base camp. think he went out for 3 weeks trekking or so including base camp, where he apparently violently ill for the duration.

sounds horrible to me.

even more bizarre as apparently you can drive to the elevation he trekked to.

not to take away from anyone's acheivement. dont get me wrong, hugely impressive. i just can't see the appeal???

hmmmm

I would do it if I had the chance. No question and I know about the death zone and the risks. Actually I'd probably do one of the less popular peaks. Its completely impossible to explain - you eithr want to or you don't. There is nothing rational about it.

Is it me or does climbing Everest sound nothing short of horrific?

Sounds very appealing to me. I can't explain why, but putting myself through that would seem like hell at the time but well worth doing just for the experience.

maybe it is just me, praps it will come with age.

things like this (polar expeditions etc.) just sound too harrowing to be enjoyable.

A friends dad attempted it a few years ago. I think with all the kit, the permits, the visas, flights etc that he had to get it worked out at about £200,000.
It was one of the worst years on record weather wise, I think only a few dozen people summitted and he wasn't one of them.

Id definitely do it given the opportunity. Like TJ I've read plenty and seen many documentaries about it. (Including where Rob Hall is dying and calls his wife who is at home to name their unborn child - truly moving and the last time I shed a tear in a film!) I don't know why, and I do know it's hugely selfish, but I'd still go.

Personally, I've always had issues with paying someone money to guide me up a mountain, In that I've always felt it would give me little sense of achievement. Being lead up on a leash and having no input into route finding, navigation, decision making, solving problems and doing no lead climbing - not my idea of climbing a mountain. Hense, I've never climbed to a particularly high standard, but the climbs I have done have been fantastic experiences with friends. Like FunkyDunc says, boy, do you feel alive, whilst at the same time sh1tting your pants.

I'd like to climb a really big peak one day, but Everest just sounds too crowded, commercialised and frankly pretty scummy with all the waste and rubbish etc.

You read stories of climbers passing dying members of other parties and they have to just climb past because to try to save them would put their team at risk and would reduce their chances of reaching the summit. It all seems a little inhuman to me.

precisely grum.

apparently (and ill readily admit im not a climber) its not even particularly hard. its merely the conditions that will kill you...

and being roped the entire way on ropes put in place by someone miles (or days) ahead surely isnt proper climbing?

Mallory and Irvine...

@grum the garbage man wentup to empty the bins but hasn't been seen since 1974...

apparently (and ill readily admit im not a climber) its not even particularly hard. its merely the conditions that will kill you...

and being roped the entire way on ropes put in place by someone miles (or days) ahead surely isnt proper climbing?

Yup, the only bit that would be a technical challenge has a ladder up it. It's just a question of endurance, your body's tolerance to altitude, not making any silly f ups, and being lucky with weather etc

I would far rather get myself and my mates up a much smaller peak unaided, as B.A.Nana says.

Same as Grumm. All the crap and rubbish round the place is embarrassing, and the selfish attitude required to succeed there has no part in any mountaineering activity i'd wan't to participate in.

I just finished reading Chris Bonnington's account of his team getting to the summit of Annapurna via the South face, and I'd agree that it sounds grindingly hard, dangerous and unpleasant. There's no way I'd do it but then I will pay to bury myself riding a bike in mud for fun, which to others might sounds like their idea of hell.

I suppose if you have the goal the pain is worth it, but the risk of death is a whole other level with high altitude climbing. I cannot understand the mentality of people who leave a wife / husband and children at home to take their chances...

is this another 'Puffer thread? 🙂

I cycled to North base camp and thats as high as I would want to go. Plus the greedy chinese charge you 12,000 US dollars to go past base camp. Even getting there is not so arduous now as the chinese have paved most of the route from Lhasa (dont know about teh south side)

Altitude sickness puts a bit of a dampener on things too 🙁

Theres way more interesting and fantastic places to go in that part of the world, and much more interesting climbs to do so not on my list.

Its one for the braggers

edit - just re-read my first sentence and, yes, i'm a bragger!

tracknicko

You been reading Dark Shadows Falling by Joe Simpson?

Great book that starts rather disturbingly.

btw I don't know what books you have read but Into Thin Air is one that paints a horrible picture of Everest as it is now. There are other accounts of the same trip that tell a pretty different story though.

just reading ranulph feines (sp? - worrying that i cant spell it after reading it?) book. have just ordered into thin air off amazon.

oh and it was 2p.

top tip. second hand books from amazon!

Sorry about getting the title wrong, it has been a while since I read it. The report of the conversation via radio to base camp along the lines of "can a dead person wave" have stuck with me since, even if the book title has not.

what is the title of it? ill look out for it.

dickydutch wrote

Including where Rob Hall is dying

Although not a climber (my limit has been a few scrambles in Scotland and a couple of easy alpine ascents)I find the whole thing fascinating. The thing that strikes me most is the acceptance of risk and the inevitability that when attempting big mountains or new routes you are going to lose most of your mates eventually and possibly your own life. Having read several Chris Bonnington books, I often wonder how he had anyone left to climb with when he was over 60 !

There is something deeply selfish about that when you consider those who are left behind.

ps. just finished re-reading Stephen Venables, Everest Kangshung Face, now published as Everest Alone at the Suimmit and would thoroughly recommend it.

There's definitely a certain type of person that likes to push themselves to the absolute limit mentally, physically and emotionally. Probably focussed, single minded and driven. If you're not one of them you won't get Everest. I've got a strange fascination with big mountains and can understand the pull, but I just know my limits and haven't got the drive to tackle them myself.

I'll bet, though, you've got a kick out of going for a really tough, grinding, grim rides in the winter. Lots of people think that's mental. Now imagine you're a climber. The fuzzy feeling of satisfaction as you sit down to tea and crumble must be so much more after Everest!

Everest can't be that technical if you can snowboard down it:
http://www.everestnews.com/sb.htm
Bear in mind he had to climb it first! I saw the film of this and Marco was in the crowd. Unfortunately, his next attempt was his last
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/09/0927_020927_siffredi.html

friend of mine did it as part of a team that cycled from the lowest point (dead sea) to the highest point (everest) for charidee. (I don't think they actually cycled the last bit)

He's a pretty good climber and still very nearly carked on top. He'd already summitted and was descending, becoming badly disorientated and needing some convincing not to just bin his oxygen supply and sit down and wait until he felt better before descending, which would of course have seen to him as well (according to the report, there were 4 died on the mountain during the period they were there from other expeditions)

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=2115

Would I want to do it. Not on your nelly, although i can see why to others it is so appealing. And even though he's an ordinary bloke I was at school with, who I've seen singe his arsehair lighting farts on cadet camp and so on, I have a great deal of admiration for the achievement, which for a climbing sort must be just about the summit of all achievements. Not many of us will achiev that in our chosen careers or hobbies.

im with you oh gravity-slave... but i liken it not to a muddy ride, which is a grind in most parts but often amusing.

and more to trying to ride accross dunes on a beach. just epic trudging, no let up, uncomfortably hard to ride, too easy to fall off, and so so draining, even when descending.

muddy rides ARE fun. beach rides are not.

this is my analogy. there are surely no fun bits at all in such extreme conditions?

which for a climbing sort must be just about the summit of all achievements.

Nah that's K2. 🙂

Theres a few books about the events of 1996...
Jon Krakauer Into thin Air
Left for Dead Beck Weathers
Anatoli Boukreev The Climb
Matt Dickinson The Death Zone

The only film/doc I've seen which is quite relevent in this thread, is the one where Alison Hargreaves very young kids walked to K2 base camp to see where she was now living (dead). There is a small cloud over the summit and they think she is in it, they leave some sweets for her.
Alison Hargreaves got massively criticised inside and outside the climbing fraternity, when alive and after her death. she was a wife and mother of young children and climbed the most extreme routes and peaks, many of them 1st ascents.

jonv that link sums it up for me. sounds grim.

and i have a mental picture of lines of dead and dying folks lying around or being carried down the mountain.

grim indeed.

jonv that's a very good account.

I've just reread it myself, had it on an old link. It doesn't sound a lot like fun. My mate = Chris. I had dinner with him and his girlfriend a while back and her version of events waiting for him to call her and say he was safe down is another story. Which to someone else's point above above, is it / was it selfish for him to go leaving a girlfriend behind? Not according to her, it's what he does and she accepts it without question.

tracknicko - Member
what is the title of it? ill look out for it.

I think it's Dark Shadows Falling and Grum says it's Into Thin Air, Both by Joe Simpson. have read them both but think it's the former.

B.A.Nana - Member

That'll be the Alison Hargreaves who did the first female non-oxygen accent of Everest and whose hubby abused here (alledgedly) according to the book by Ed Douglas. She was a really good climber on the Limestone in Derbyshire, had a good climbing shop in Matlock Bath.

nay nay i've ordered 'into thin air'. its not joe simpson, its one of the blokes from the 1996 disaster.

[url= http://www.amazon.com/Everest-Large-Format-Liam-Neeson/product-reviews/B00001U0E2 ]This was it - well worth a watch![/url]

Woody - Member
dickydutch wrote

Including where Rob Hall is dying

Which film/documentary was that ?

It was something I saw when Rheged (Sp?) had the mountaineering museum and were showing films on their IMAX screen. Truly harrowing.

muddy rides ARE fun. beach rides are not.

this is my analogy. there are surely no fun bits at all in such extreme conditions?

Your definition of fun could be very different to someone else's. Like road riding! I'd rather ride on the beach than the road...

I've done dangerous things that have given me a big kick and left others distinctly scared, no up side for them, even later. I've also had that scared feeling. For example, I hate relatively very safe fairground rides but often enjoy stuff that could have really hurt me!

into thin air is a brilliant read - I couldn't put it down! If a little Texan in his writing style.

mt
Yes, she also climbed all the extreme alpine North Faces in one season, which had never been done before. I think there's a book about her or written by her. I recall picking it up in a climbing shop in Fort William years ago.

Incredible woman.

yeh im eith you graphilty-slave i just don't see how it could be fun.

like doing a lap of finno on a road bike. just painful, and hard.

normal road biking is awesome. you will love it soon. just you wait.

I'd love to go as far as Base Camp, just to be at the foot of the thing would be immense

I would far rather get myself and my mates up a much smaller peak unaided, as B.A.Nana says.

I obviously mis-read, I thought we were thinking of unassisted summiting of everest, not led-by-a-guide walking. Naturally being led up on a leash doesn't have the same appeal.

I thought we were thinking of unassisted summiting of everest,

I think very few people do that - most do it with commercial expedition companies.

[i]I think very few people do that - most do it with commercial expedition companies. [/i]

From what I've heard/read it's almost impossible to get permits as a lone climber. The guiding companies buy up all the permits each year on a sort of allotted system - a bit like Graham Baxter Sporting Tours buying all the UK permits for the Etape du Tour so you have to go through them.
There's a limited number of permits per year in order to try and keep the mountain reasonably tidy and safe.

I think very few people do that - most do it with commercial expedition companies.

While I was on a flight of fancy thinking about being good enough to attempt it, I didn't think about the permits etc required to actually make it happen. 🙂

reading the books etc it seems its all roped and shared roped at that. so a solo attempt these days isnt quite the solo attempt it was in the 50's either. youd be clipping into ropes and using ladders put down by someone else.

(not taking away from the fact it would be epically hard)

One view:
(a friend of mine's blog after a death and subsequent court action a few years ago. you may remember)

Thursday, July 20, 2006
Judge rules that climbing Everest is dangerous

Without wishing to speak ill of the dead, Micheal Matthews is just the latest in a string of unfortunates with more money than sense who thought that $40,000 was an adequate substitute for skill, experience and judgement. There's nothing new about it, over-wealthy FHM readers have been carking-it on Everest for years, but because these people don't bother to find out what they're getting into there's always plenty of fresh avalanche fodder. There's probably a few out at base camp now, having the 'ultimate adventure' supplied (for a small recompense, of course) by X-Treme Fanny-Magnet Adventures, Ltd. I have very little sympathy for them. I do however note that nobody throws their hands in the air in horror and starts threatening court action every time a Sherpa with a wife and five kids to feed gets killed by his client's ambition and incompetence. The whole farce hearkens back to the Victorian era of mountaineering, when first ascents were always accredited to 'gentlemen' (i.e. rich British toff being dragged up on a rope) as opposed to 'professionals' (i.e. competent local doing the dragging).

Some will accuse me of insensitivity - but hey, that's mountaineering for you. If you choose to stick your dick in a bee's nest that's your prerogative, but don't sue the beekeeper when you get stung.

I don't know why these people bother to climb Everest anyway, it's not as if there's much actual 'climbing' on the South Col route. You could get the same experience at a fraction of the cost by going into an airtight, refrigerated meat-locker and spending thirty six hours on a stairmaster.

colnagokid and gravity slave,

If your french is any good, or you want to improve but need something interesting to read, find this:

[url= http://www.amazon.fr/Trace-lAnge-vie-Marco-Siffredi/dp/2911755839 ]http://www.amazon.fr/Trace-lAnge-vie-Marco-Siffredi/dp/2911755839[/url]

Hugely interesting, engaging and moving book.

B.A.Nana

Can't recall the the title but the book was by Ed Douglas. Thought it was really good myself. Used to see her on the crags and repeated some of her routes. Remember the critisism of her for leaving the kids with their father and then dying on K2, as she did it on purpose. If it had been the dad would comments have been the same? Once I'd read the book things looked very different.

houns, basecamp is pretty dull, we were in kathmandu and bought a map then took a few weeks to walk up there staying in tea houses along the way, its a nice walk but deffo not an "acheivement" any tool can do it without a guide, a few idiots around also, one guy we stopped to talk with (a very nice south african chap) was with an american who when we asked them if they wanted to join us for a cuppa said (as he threw his can of coke over his shoulder) "**** that man, lets trek" much to our delight he was airlifted off later on in the trip due to altitude sickness...utter tool, some other american was overheard in one place complaining "you call this a burger?" to one of the locals who just cooked him a meal...
i have heard the annapurna circuit is much better.

is it / was it selfish for him to go leaving a girlfriend behind? Not according to her, it's what he does and she accepts it without question.

Having said that, I am full of admiration for those who do it and maybe a touch envious that I have neither the talent, drive or ambition to do something to the exclusion of everything else.

My claim to fame is that I was once invited to climb Everest as part of a team of 4.

I declined on the grounds that I didn't want to climb Everest with anyone who would have me on their expedition.