[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

Mol, we were talking about that this week. So far there are 6 planning on moving south of the border with quite a few more I'd imagine, me included. It could be worrying for/if independence happens as highish earners make plans. Those 6 folk are probably on 1m+ combined, that's a lot of tax.

I'd be a bit worried about the economic shit hitting the fan if I were in Scotland. Of course, if it actually does, then there could be a significant economic migration.

Does anyone know if No voters have said they'll move South in the event of a Yes?

And are the Yes voters all gonna jump into the sea in the event of a No?

I'd be a bit worried about the economic shit hitting the fan if I were in Scotland. Of course, if it actually does, then there could be a significant economic migration.

Not if they're neither part of the UK or in the EU - they'll exceed the Gov'ts immigration quota for non-EU citizens. 😉

See how easy it is?

[quote=molgrips said]I'd be a bit worried about the economic shit hitting the fan if I were in Scotland. Of course, if it actually does, then there could be a significant economic migration.

See you just did it - a vote yes = economic mess and migration FACEPALM
oh and in true molgrips fashion what do you mean by significant and can i get - an exact[ish] number please for your prediction.
Molly - you just did what they said you do after denying it

At the age of 52 I have been up since 530 excited to be able to vote in this referendum. Unable to sleep. I can confidently predict that will never happen again in my lifetime

JY an independent Scotland is going to be a much "fairer" place remember so the unemployed/low paid will be attracted and the medium and high paid discouraged.

I very much doubt there will be an immediate population shift, it would take place over a few years. If there is a Yes vote I plan to visit Scotland prior to independence so I can complete my challenge of climbing the highest peaks in UK whilst Ben Nevis is still in the UK, plus a last chance to spend some money and pay some VAT to the UK.

Well yes with somethign that will be fatal - ar eyou suggesting it is that level of stupidity to vote for independence ?

No of course not - it's an example of how you can twist things - in this case it's obvious, but in the referendum it's not so obvious. But it's exactly what people are doing.

See you just did it - a vote yes = economic mess and migration FACEPALM

Well, not quite. I didn't say anything other than my personal opinion - I would be worried, this is a fact. I see what you mean there but it's more of a grey area. I'm not in fact making proclamations or character slurs, like some people are.

oh and in true molgrips fashion what do you mean by significant

Just dictionary - significant means enough to make a difference. But again, step back - I said "could", because I have no idea if it would really happen. Remember, I'm just a bloke thikning about the issues, I'm not a campaigning politician on a soapbox.

Molly - you just did what they said you do after denying it

Hmm.. interesting, denying it? You think by pointing this out, I'm implying that I'm above it? This is not a personal thing, Junkyard. You miss my point entirely. In fact, if you read back a few pages I specifically include myself in these observations.

Not if they're neither part of the UK or in the EU - they'll exceed the Gov'ts immigration quota for non-EU citizens.

Didn't we recently have even *EU* citizens (Bulgaria) having restricted rights to work in the UK?

jambalaya - Member
JY an independent Scotland is going to be a much "fairer" place remember so the unemployed/low paid will be attracted and the medium and high paid discouraged.

I'm not in fact making proclamations

Just dictionary

Andy Murray has come out as a Yes, citing 'no campaign negativity' as reason [I don't think he has a vote, being a non-resident].

I've heard this a lot, but the more I think about it the more it sounds a strange way to decide, i.e. to make your decision based on the effectiveness or likeability of the salesman rather than the quality of the product.
We probably all do it to some extent in general life - I suppose it's called marketing, but with a decision as big as this it is worrying.

I've got absolutely no idea what you are talking about Junkyard, sorry.

Andy Murray has come out as a Yes, citing 'no campaign negativity' as reason

This is basically what I'm talking about. People warning of problems just get accused of negativity. If there really are problems, how can you point them out without being negative?

Sometimes negativity is the right position.

Surely by very definition "No" is negative. 🙂

juanking - Member
Mol, we were talking about that this week. So far there are 6 planning on moving south of the border with quite a few more I'd imagine, me included. It could be worrying for/if independence happens as highish earners make plans. Those 6 folk are probably on 1m+ combined, that's a lot of tax.

No one is indispensable. Someone will fill the gap, so when I say you won't be missed, I don't mean it in a personal manner.

The same applies to any business that heads south.

Polling booths busy bang on 7:00 am. Never seen it like that before.

I could add another 3 to that number.

Well, only because of the way the question is phrased. Perhaps if they'd asked "Should Scotland remain in the union?" then the nationalists would have been negative, and it would all have been different 🙂

(seriously though - it's well known that the way questions are phrased has a significant effect on surveys and polls)

Andy Murray has come out as a Yes, citing 'no campaign negativity' as reason [I don't think he has a vote, being a non-resident].

If the vote is No Gordon Brown quite rightly should take a lot of credit. His intervention has been timely and very powerful.

Good old Gordon. No stranger to false promises himself, 10p tax rate anyone?.

Well, that was really exciting, been waiting ages to do that and finally done it - and the experience is, well, overwhelming.

Just installed iOS8.

Fully understand what you are saying Epic, the difference is they/we would still work for the same global multinational but just not based from Scotland. Oh and BTW Oil and Gas sector, not as if what we do is important to iS, we are the cherry on the cake. The most staunch No men here are folk who are coming up to retirement, they are bricking it.

molgrips - Member
Well, only because of the way the question is phrased. Perhaps if they'd asked "Should Scotland remain in the union?" then the nationalists would have been negative, and it would all have been different

Quite. Still it's better than the SNP ministers' first attempt of "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country"

I suspect GB has been under far less pressure to fit into a party this time and has consequently spoken from the heart which I think is in the right place. Politics is a machine, and you have to fit into it as many good people have found to their cost.

Well, that was really exciting, been waiting ages to do that and finally done it - and the experience is, well, overwhelming.

Just installed iOS8.

The most staunch No men here are folk who are coming up to retirement, they are bricking it.

Vote made, roll on the result. Polling station was very busy this morning, first time I've ever seen a queue.

Vote made, roll on the result. Polling station was very busy this morning, first time I've ever seen a queue.

Yes, complete strangers grinning at each other too.

I was the only person voting in mine which was a surprise. Lots of media outside for some reason too.

People are being very negative about the no campaign.

No they aren't.

Jambalaya, the reason the 'soon to retire' folk are bricking it is nothing to do with iS honouring their (state) pensions. It's because these are youngish retires ~55 so have made provisions for the future but taxation mainly income tax is the issue.

People are being very negative about being negative about the no campaign.

Yes, complete strangers grinning at each other too.

What does that tell you?

I thought you were all a friendly bunch not like that there London?

Jambalaya, the reason the 'soon to retire' folk are bricking it is nothing to do with iS honouring their (state) pensions. It's because these are youngish retires ~55 so have made provisions for the future but taxation mainly income tax is the issue.

What does that tell you?

I thought you were all a friendly bunch not like that there London?

Not sure where you're going with this. No, it's not especially normal for random strangers to grin at each other in the street in Glasgow.

I thought it was a lovely thing, I'm not making some kind of point.

Not very scientific as it's only based on perceptions (not sure how you would do a genuinely unbiased survey though) but this is interesting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-almost-half-of-no-voters-have-felt-personally-threatened-by-the-yes-campaign-9739038.html

Opponents of independence were also more likely to have fallen out with friends, family members, colleagues and other people than were supporters of Scotland leaving the Union

interesting so they were both more likely to be threatened and more likely to fall out with people?
Is it them do you think? Serious point

So we have proof no voters are easily frightened , overreact, blame others and then sulk 😉

Peoples perceptions of what happens is not that accurate tbh - one persons banter or joke - like that there- is another persons abuse and belittling.
I am not sure what it says
Yes are rowdier
No are more sensitive etc

If Yes wins, I would be interested in revisiting this thread in a year and seeing whether any of those who've said they will leave actually have. I suspect very few really will.

I'm not in fact making proclamations

gobuchul - Member

I thought you were all a friendly bunch not like that there London?

Nah, we've just redefined things so that calling someone deadly insults is considered friendly. Otherwise the entire population of glasgow would be one man, rapidly bleeding to death.

I am not sure what it says
Yes are rowdier
No are more sensitive etc

I made this point. I also made it earlier wrt another survey which claimed Yes voters felt more intimidated. A Yes voter got all stroppy with me for 'claiming Yes voters are over-sensitive'. Oh teh ironing etc.

interesting so they were both more likely to be threatened and more likely to fall out with people?
Is it them do you think? Serious point

Maybe No voters just don't get along with their neighbours 😉

I am not sure what it says
Yes are rowdier
No are more sensitive etc

Or that you are trying to flannel the issue away..
It is a difficult one to answer. What does it mean by 'personally threatened' by a 'campaign'. Nobody has directly said anything nasty to me (even online)........ Then again I haven't discussed the issue with complete strangers in public. If I had been asked the question in that poll I would probably have said that I wasn't personally threatened. It doesn't mean that the atmosphere isn't there in the background.

However I wouldn't wear a No badge or sticker in public and if I had any sense I would certainly take down a No poster tonight, especially if the vote goes that way.

imnotverygood - Member

if I had any sense I would certainly take down a No poster tonight,

I've got a yes sticker on my car- I'll be taking it off tonight because the alternative is to become one of those people that leaves a car red nose on for years.

I've got a yes sticker on my car- I'll be taking it off tonight because the alternative is to become one of those people that leaves a car red nose on for years.

Yup - though I do have one of the lovely Bella Caledonia posters framed in the shop, that'll stay on the wall.

[img] [/img]

After all the hoo haa about the CU, the problem has been solved..

[img] ?oh=fbdc841ed4cf3f484b429bbcd32898c5&oe=548BF810[/img]

I've got a yes sticker on my car- I'll be taking it off tonight because the alternative is to become one of those people that leaves a car red nose on for years.

@ben, if the vote goes against you you'll not want to be looking at that poster day-in day-out ?

@ben, if the vote goes against you you'll not want to be looking at that poster day-in day-out ?

I think I probably will. Besides, got to save it for the next referendum 😉

ben, if there is to be another vote will it be call a neverendum?

Forgot to mention, Free Yorkshire. Can't wait for the Scotchlandshire side show to be over so we can move to the true cause, a Free Yorkshire and it better be cheap!

Anyone done this yet? [url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/scotland-yes-campaign-voting-british-state ]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/scotland-yes-campaign-voting-british-state[/url]

This is why I think it'll be a yes. This campaign has grown far beyond questions about SNP vs Labour, Scotland vs England, what currency, who gets the oil etc and has become something much bigger about how the world is changing from the old patriarchal hierarchical system to a new position where people are empowered, informed and engaged. At least I hope so.

If only it wasn't just about electing a different set of the same politicians to rule from a different place.

Someone phoned me from South Africa to wish me luck with the referendum.

Okay, he also wanted to talk about recumbent trikes 😉

Did he ask if they are going to be cheaper when the smackeroonie takes a nosedive?

become something much bigger about how the world is changing from the old patriarchal hierarchical system to a new position where people are empowered, informed and engaged. At least I hope so.

mikewsmith - Member
Only issue is there are no restrictions on who gets elected to run Scotland.

We are well aware the proper fight starts tomorrow.

mikewsmith - Member
We are well aware the proper fight starts tomorrow.

Or not, counting chickens?

I'm hearing stories that SNP internal polls are indicating 60%, when people are asking at the polling stations.

Put it this way, I'll be stunned if it's not a yes vote. (and I'll probably not turn the internet back on for about 6 months! stop cheering at the back! :D)

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11104004/Why-an-historical-anomaly-means-Bonny-Donny-could-leave-the-UK-too.html ]Doncastrians may get independence too![/url]

mikewsmith - Member
...and the perception that independence will cure scotland of right wing politics...

On the contrary, I believe it will become more balanced and we will see a more vibrant and stronger Conservative party without the taint of Unionism. Notably of all the major parties, they have not upset their voter base in this campaign. (I still won't be voting for them though 🙂 )

seosamh77 - Member
I'm hearing stories that SNP internal polls are indicating 60%, when people are asking at the polling stations.

I was hoping for a higher proportion early in the day simply because the Yes voters are more likely to be enthusiastic and come in early.

I expect the later voters will be a higher % of Nos, so this may mean it's going to be really tight.

the world is changing from the old patriarchal hierarchical system to a new position where people are empowered, informed and engaged. At least I hope so.

Kind of. I hope the world is becoming less hierarchical and more inter-dependent too - internet and social media being a key driver.

However, the most serious concern about this whole referendum for me is that neither the yes nor the no camp have actually informed their audiences just what they'll get for their vote... so both sides have fallen on rhetoric in the absence of any concrete proposition to offer...

become something much bigger about how the world is changing from the old patriarchal hierarchical system to a new position where people are empowered, informed and engaged. At least I hope so.

I'm hearing stories that SNP internal polls are indicating 60%, when people are asking at the polling stations.

jambalaya - Member
In a condescending bawbags language, "Moon on a Stick"

FTFY. 😉

perception that independence will cure scotland of right wing politics

No one's claiming it will be a cure in itself, but it at least gives them the opportunity which doesn't exist as part of the UK. You're right in that it's still going to be the power to vote in one group of politicians over another, but whoever those politicians are they'd be very foolish to ignore the prevalent sense that people will no longer be patronised, ignored and taken for granted.

brooess - Member
...However, the most serious concern about this whole referendum for me is that neither the yes nor the no camp have actually informed their audiences just what they'll get for their vote... so both sides have fallen on rhetoric in the absence of any concrete proposition to offer...

The Edinburgh agreement was no prior negotiation to the referendum, so there were no parameters for either side.

Thus the choice was between 2 uncertainties, and therefore down to who do you trust more to look after Scotland's interests.

But then of course both sides have used that to lambast the other...

The Edinburgh agreement was no prior negotiation to the referendum, so there were no parameters for either side.

So I understand. Still seems daft to go to a referendum on that basis... why didn't SNP say 'not good enough' and continue negotiate at that point?

I'm stressing here that this seems a poor position to put both the yes and the no voters in... as you say, Scotland is just being asked which bunch of politicians do you trust the most - when deep experience for most people alive today is that no politicians can ever be trusted!

whoever those politicians are they'd be very foolish to ignore the prevalent sense that people will no longer be patronised, ignored and taken for granted.

FWIW the financial markets seem to think its going to be a No, this could of course be the same complacency we saw over the past months prior to the Murdoch poll.

We are well aware the proper fight starts tomorrow.

Or not, counting chickens?

In a way it doesn't matter what the result is, the fight will still start tomorrow. Too many people from both sides have now seen that change is possible, they have the power and they are hungry for that change.

First up is the General election next year, then the Scottish Government elections the following year.

That's 60% of people asked by SNP pollsters say they voted Yes?

aracer - Member
That's 60% of people asked by SNP pollsters say they voted Yes?

What I find really interesting is that there are people on here who seem pretty sure it will be a yes vote. Meanwhile, the stock market and the sterling exchange rates are all looking quite healthy, as though either investors think it's going to be a no, or they think a yes will be a good outcome.

Someone is going to be in for a shock tomorrow but I genuinely don't know who. I think if I knew anything about investing, I could make a fortune (sadly I haven't a clue).

thought this was quite interesting too.

twitter map for the last week.

http://rt.com/uk/188404-scottish-referendum-live-updates/

If we win this it really does spell the end for traditional media as the only opinion formers in town.

Since when are the Bookies ever wrong Seosamh? They are quoting 1-5 for a No win and 4-1 for a Yes.

Its not looking likely for you.

it's only hearsay I'm repeating from other forums.

So even better than polls conducted by the SNP then 😉

oldnpastit - Member
What I find really interesting is that there are people on here who seem pretty sure it will be a yes vote. Meanwhile, the stock market and the sterling exchange rates are all looking quite healthy, as though either investors think it's going to be a no, or they think a yes will be a good outcome.

Or they think Westminster is bullshitting about a CU.

Since when are the Bookies ever wrong Seosamh?

2008 Olympics. Haven't placed a bet since. Still up on the bookies.

seosamh77 - Member
I'm hearing stories that SNP internal polls are indicating 60%, when people are asking at the polling stations.

Wouldn't releasing exit poll results/information prior to the closing of the polls be illegal?

Wouldn't releasing exit poll results prior to the closing of the polls be illegal?

No idea how the SNP conduct their polls tbh. I'll try and enquire tonight when I ask the question for myself about the polls. it's only hearsay I'm repeating from other forums

SNP are leaking poll information? They're not trying to influence the ballot are they?

ninfan - Member
seosamh77 - Member
I'm hearing stories that SNP internal polls are indicating 60%, when people are asking at the polling stations.
Wouldn't releasing exit poll results/information prior to the closing of the polls be illegal?

Who says it's the result of an exit poll, could be last week.

Well, I was taking it from your own claim:

[i]"'Im hearing stories that SNP internal polls are indicating 60%, [u]when people are asking at the polling stations[/u]."[/i]