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Polls are certainly pretty consistent and have been for a week ( apart from the one panic inducing rogue)
All these polls converging on basically the same result within the margins of error - does that mean they're all pretty accurate, or just that no pollster wants to stick their neck out?
YouGov, for The Sun and The Times: Yes 48%, No 52%.
Survation, for the Daily Record: Yes 47%, No 53%.
The results are excluding don't knows, which were 6% in the YouGov poll, and 9% with Survation.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome
I'm sorry you see it that way, it's certainly not intended.
Not just me that sees it that way, clearly.
It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones.
Heh. 🙂
Am I the only one who is slightly cynical of the number of people on both sides who are being quoted on the BBC's live feed saying they gave swapped at the last minute?
Yes, I don't know anyone who's changed their mind. People are generally really bad at changing their minds about anything, even when they're blatantly wrong (stop it 😉 )
I honestly can't tell if it's going to be a very, very close result, or 60/40 one way or the other.
It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones
Yeah, I did say that, that wasn't very polite. I should perhaps have emphasised the "general" bit, I certainly don't think that applies to all on either side. But. Look at the last posters from the campaigns - the No poster is about saving "Your pay, your pension, your pound", the Yes poster is about doing it for future generations.
So what I said was an impolite overgeneralisation, but I think it does cover quite a bit of the campaigns' output.
344 pages of pish
345 if I've got anything to do with it
344 pages of pish
Yep 😀
Bloody hell ben, your levels of disgust and hatred for the union (anyone not scottish) are really quite unpleasant.
this is absolute bullshit and you're a liar.
Pretty sure it was Ben who rubbished my only post on here in a slightly patronising way, so I'd have to agree with some of the above posts I'm afraid.
Kona bunny please feel free to come up with whatever version of reality suits you. But please try to use a slightly higher level of intelligence when you post.
(I'm 37, by the way)
Ha, you come across much younger than that
grum - MemberYes there have been insults on both sides - but I don't recall any No supporters persistently adopting the tone of moral superiority that bencooper does
And I don't recall any No supporters being accused of being racists. <thing the other side does> is definitely worse than <thing my side does>.
Ha, you come across much younger than that
I'm just not worn down by cynicism and ennui.
Look at the last posters from the campaigns - the No poster is about saving "Your pay, your pension, your pound", the Yes poster is about doing it for future generations.
Jesus. Future generations depend upon a stable currency and economy, and a state pension scheme. You are voting to jeopardise all these things because of some infantile desire for 'change' which will serve no one except the intellectual dwarfs of the Scottish left. You can't build a better future without a stable economy.
I hope if it is a yes you realise at some point the damage you've helped cause.
Disappointed the Herald took a half step back, although I never really found it that pro yes anyway.
Not so much a full step, more of a devo step.
[i]That's the theme of pretty much all of your posts on here.[/i]
I generally think this has been conducted reasonably cordially, interestingly I see the tone of posts the other way around. I'm largely neutral, but to my reading some of the NO posts of THM and ninfan have been both condescending and patronising, in a "we know best" sort of way, generally I think Ben's conducted himself pretty well against some pretty harsh criticism a few hundred pages back.
I genuinely wish the Scots well whatever their vote tomorrow, and I hope the rest of Britain will support them regardless.
actually that is a good post the no side have been repeatedly accused of racism - is that fair game Grum?
If you prefer humorous I went for this before NW returned with sense
Poor Ben on the receiving end of the STW equivalent of the Westminster elite bullying
Did I upset anyone with that 😉
And I don't recall any No supporters being accused of being racists.
You mean apart from when bencooper implied that all No supporters are Nazis?
dufresneorama - Member344 pages of pish
How come you didn't give up after reading the first half a dozen or so pages ?
Splitting up this little Island is a bit silly.
Pretty sure it was Ben who rubbished my only post on here in a slightly patronising way, so I'd have to agree with some of the above posts I'm afraid.
Did I? I can't remember - it may have been because it was something we've done to death many times and I couldn't face it again. Was it about who gets the oil fields or something?
grum - MemberYou mean apart from when bencooper implied that all No supporters are Nazis?
Yeah, apart from that thing that never happened.
Without wishing to defend the opposition: this is a reflection of the two different campaign strategies, so it isn't surprising that rubs off on the posts here.. Yes's Big Idea is that this it the Moral Choice. No' s is that it is the Rational One. Clearly they both try to say that they are more than that, but that is the message they are trying to get across. Friday morning will tell us which has worked.
As a parting shot. For all that this campaign has supposedly changed the face of politics. The two people who, for me, have done well are Salmond (much as I want to poke him in the eye) and Brown. The campaign hasn't really produced any new faces. One reason why I am a bit cynical & voting No, I suppose.
[quote=piemonster ]Disappointed the Herald took a half step back, although I never really found it that pro yes anyway.
Not so much a full step, more of a devo step.
The Herald managed to select the option that isn't even on the ballot paper 🙄
Yeah, apart from that thing that never happened.
I'm being somewhat hyperbolic obviously - but there's a pretty clear implication in that post of 'this is what No supporters are like'. It's fairly ridiculous to deny it.
No will win by a small margin tomorrow.
There will be another referendum within the next 25 years.
Westminster will be open and honest about things,unlike now.
The Yes vote will then win by a fairly large margin.
I'd rather Yes won tomorrow though.
lots of hot air on channel 4 😯
Rise above it Ben - you are a star and some truly great posts. I'll miss them. The nazi one was just a giggle.
I'm being slightly hyperbolic obviously
Ever so slightly 😉
We're going to have to confront this side of Scottish society at some point, it's all tied in with the sectarianism as well. It's going to be a problem whichever way the referendum goes. It's unfortunate for all the decent, honourable No people that their campaign was latched on to by the Orange Order and right-wing thugs.
Without wishing to defend the opposition: this is a reflection the two different campaign strategies, so it isn't surprising that rubs off on the posts here.. Yes's Big Idea is that this it the Moral Choice. No' s is that it is the Rational One. Clearly they both try to day that they are more than that, but that is the message they are trying to get across. Friday morning will tell us which has worked.
That's a very good way of putting it. The number of times I've heard people say it's head vs. heart. Though oddly sometimes they mean staying in the Union is the heart option.
Is it bad when you do it or just when Ben does it?I'm being somewhat hyperbolic obviously
Was it about who gets the oil fields or something?
Its OK i stepped in whilst you were way - yes really I actually had to
A long term poster on the thread argued for 90/10 split for rUK
they could not produce evidence as it was copyrighted
Rise above it Ben - you are a star and some truly great posts. I'll miss them. The nazi one was just a giggle.
You see, I think they're all a giggle - this is a serious subject, but I don't think that means we have to take it seriously.
Especially on here, where half the fun is in the debate.
Especially on here, where half the fun is in the debate.
No it isn't.
Is it bad when you do it or just when Ben does it?
Yup fair dos - I thought it was fairly obvious that I didn't think he [i]actually[/i] meant that all NO supporters were Nazis.
I still think it was a crude generalisation about No supporters though.
The two people who, for me, have done well are Salmond (much as I want to poke him in the eye) and Brown
The Mail and Labour are raving about Gordon's speech,well made though it was, the content is just self contradictory , scare mongering tosh.
grum - Memberthere's a pretty clear implication in that post of 'this is what No supporters are like'.
Yeah, if you like. Not really though.
Grum it has been a strange debate that has made many folk emotive and it was a crude one as is claiming that it is anti english and that has been done many times as well.
Just think if it is a yes vote we have another 18 months of this shit
Still the best argument to vote no i have heard 😉
also some proper weird stuff like the Daily Mail praising Brown - it has been a weird debate
The Mail and Labour are raving about Gordon's speech,well made though it was, the content is just self contradictory , scare mongering tosh.
It sounded good though didn't it? Full of commitment, passion and conviction. Stuff the content. Doing to Eck what Eck has been doing to the No campaign for the past 18 months. They don't like it up 'em do they?
Especially on here, where half the fun is in the debate.
Indeed. It's a MTB forum after all.
The herald is quire a shock though - I hope that is reflective of the silent majority. At the end of the day, common sense prevails (I hope) but, if not, could do with a 20% decline in property prices 😉
No it isn't.
Why on earth are you on here if you're not having fun?
My problem is I perhaps sometimes forget that the Glasgow habit of continually taking the p*** out of everyone and everything might not translate to strangers on the internet, so people so,ermines think I'm being serious when I rarely am.
Why on earth are you on here if you're not having fun?My problem is I perhaps sometimes forget that the Glasgow habit of continually taking the p*** out of everyone and everything might not translate to strangers on the internet, so people so,ermines think I'm being serious when I rarely am.
Er... I wasn't being serious.
& yes I do have an EH postcode.
It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones.
As one of the - still - undecided, I was leaning more towards a Yes vote for that reason, until I heard Salmond talking about how we have 2% of the EUs population, 61% of its oil, 40 odd % of its fish stocks, x% of its renewables, and decided that's equally selfish, just different parameters.
(figures along those lines, from memory)
Er... I wasn't being serious.
Dammit, that's not fair, you're supposed to use an emoticon - them's the rules.
Seeing as this issue has been raised several times, this may put it to bed.
[url= http://www.spf.org.uk/2014/09/spf-media-release-independence-referendum-2/ ]Release by Police Federation blowing holes in the press claims of aggression between the 2 contending parties.[/url]
that's equally selfish, just different parameters
Yes. I think it's trying to prove that an independent Scotland would cope economically, but it's not the most subtle argument.
They don't like it up 'em do they?
I notice you pick an Englishman's phrase rather than the Scot Frazer's "We're all doomed"
🙂
Well, perhaps there is no point in reasoning with those who have resolved not to learn from history. Nevertheless, let me try to explain why Scotland is not – and is highly unlikely to become – a Scandinavian country.
Niall Ferguson sums it up well in the Torygraph
Yes. I think it's trying to prove that an independent Scotland would cope economically, but it's not the most subtle argument.
Aye, maybe that was his point, but it came across as 'we've got all this, why share it'.
Aye, maybe that was his point, but it came across as 'we've got all this, why share it'.
It's a mistake both sides have sometimes made in this campaign, assuming that Scots only care about Scotland.
And my very last word tonight - a not very authoritative poll.
[img] 
?oh=eef61c2a85ceb799f28ee0b8612b9751&oe=54897E9F&__gda__=1422730105_95a695f549374b4ac040dd4ae1b5ca55[/img]
(You lot probably didn't realise I was a titled landowner 🙂 )
You're not [i]the[/i] Mr epicyclo? 😯
[quote=thegreatape ]
Yes. I think it's trying to prove that an independent Scotland would cope economically, but it's not the most subtle argument.
Aye, maybe that was his point, but it came across as 'we've got all this, why share it'.
Surely the point is that you trade it for resources you don't have?
Well, some thoroughly rousing bedtime viewing to help before your big choice
Best of luck to all tomorrow
hope it doesn't end up creating too may rifts in your society like last time...
Anyone know when they are due to announce? Have the got Ant & Dec to do it?
The Glasgow count isn't expected to finish until about 5am - it'll be a very long night.
The final result should be 6-7:30 am. They will result each region as it comes out during the night, but as we have nothing to compare it to, it won't tell us much, unless it is a landslide.
A No vote is for a more certain and wealthier Scotland. A Yes vote is one focused purely on the emotional feel good of Independence. It's the No vote which is altruistic as its far easier to help people in a wealthy country. The Yes vote is the selfish one
A no vote will result in half the population of Scotland being disappointed.
A yes vote will result in the whole population of Scotland being disappointed.
Don't be silly, a Yes Vote will result in the streets of Edinburgh being paved with gold which will trigger a mass exodus of UK based economic migrants to travel north to seek riches fame and fortune. It's a tory masterpiece and CMD will be rubbing his hands - cure overcrowding in London/SE, reduce welfare payments, never have to speak to AS again.
I think a No vote is probably less disappointing, on aggregate- the Yes campaign already won the consolation prize (assuming, for the moment, that the promises are delivered), and lets be honest, most of us never expected to be this close in the first place. We still get to say "Wow, we came really close despite it all" and "Well they said we couldn't have devo max but we took it anyway". And then cap it off with NEXT TIME.
No voters don't get any consolation at all in the event of a Yes. I'd definitely rather be a disappointed Yes than a disappointed No, that'll be a bitter pill. Anyone else?
Well the advantage of being a yes voter is that you get to be disappointed either way 😉
I will bet anyone 50p Scotland will still be part of the UK after this vote.
50 English Pence or 50 Scottish Pence?
My personal opinion is that only about a third of the voters on each side will be really disappointed if the result goes against them. I think for the other two thirds it will range from minor disappointment to a fleeting feeling of oh well that's that then. The large number of undecideds and those that come out with the line my heart says ... but my head says ... suggests a large proportion of voters who could have went either way and could live happily enough with either result.
All this talk of half the population will be devastated one way or the other and deep divisions will rumble on is misplaced and not reflective of what is actually happening at all.
aracer - MemberWell the advantage of being a yes voter is that you get to be disappointed either way
It's all win, this Yes lark. Not too late folks!
wilburt - Member
I will bet anyone 50p Scotland will still be part of the UK after this vote.
I would bet a million pounds on that happening. a Yes vote doesn't result in immediate independence. Friday morning Scotland will still be in the UK (and EU).
unfortunately i'm only good for 50p, so your original wager is accepted
grahamt1980 - Member
Kona bunny please feel free to come up with whatever version of reality suits you. But please try to use a slightly higher level of intelligence when you post.
POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
no. calling BC an anti-English bigot is just bullshit and anyone who says it is a liar. there's no need to waste words in saying so.
On yer marks, get set.........GO
On yer marks, get set.........GO
Polls don't open till 7 do they?
Unless they've pre-emptively adopted a different time zone and it's 7 already 🙂
Yeah hang on keen lad, I'm still in my towel eating my breakfast.
Konabunny. You are showing your prejudice again. Please show me where I said anything about anti english. I said anyone but the Scottish.
Have a good day anyway.
Re Northwind; I would agree;what an opportunity,short term pain for long term gain.I believe the UK is on a downward spiral where it is increasingly contracting South with an impact on not just us,but Northern England as well; HS2 anybody? I have some guilt in leaving folks in the North of England to the whims of London,but hope MT's free Yorkshire campaign gathers pace.
Since we are doing bets,would any of the many non voters on here care to bet their houses on the new powers granted ever being in a queens speech? didn't think so! When,not if,the promises are broken we will do it all over again.We need 40-45% to keep it an issue,NO needs over 60% to kill it.
I hope every voter has a peaceful and pleasant day.
OK yes voters Let's do this thing.
At the age of 52 I have been up since 530 excited to be able to vote in this referendum. Unable to sleep. I can confidently predict that will never happen again in my lifetime 😀
Unfortunately, this all obscures the most important vote of the day in a wee corner of Fife.
Will the R&A cow-tow to corporate sponsorship BS and pander to the PC brigade. Bloody HSBC driving this nonsense with their Open sponsorship.
Vote No gentleman - you are one of the best in the world at what you do. Woman and golf clubs, you are asking for trouble 😉
THM 😀 A good day for burying news.
Time to go put an X in a box.
Good luck people.
It's interesting, after talking to lots of people both Yes and No, ive come to a general conclusion: people vote No for selfish reasons, and vote Yes for altruistic ones
Only if you spin it that way.
"Would you like to go into that cage with that hungry lion?"
"No thanks"
"Selfish! You're just looking after your own skin!"
"It's dangerous"
"You're just afraid!"
"The lion will eat me"
"You're scaremongering!"
See how easy it is?
Does anyone know if No voters have said they'll move South in the event of a Yes?
I do hope they read out the result in an X factor style with salmond and darling standing next to each other and then they have a hug afterwards.
Of course there will be a 3:minute drum roll before Vernon Kay gives the result.